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Video: Gay “exorcism” performed on teenage boy

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  1. Well, no doubt this will resonate deeply with the likes of people like the astoundingly uneducated David Skinner, who thinks “demons” are responsible for a range of “ills” in people.

    But honestly, his is most distressing to watch. We’ve put a man on the moon, split the atom to harness its power, and created developed vehicles for our kind to leave the planet, and yet there are still monkeys among mankind engaging in these medieval mumbo jumbo “exorcisms”?!? These people are a disgrace to humanity and progress…. if there was ever blinding proof that extremist religion is the recourse of a damaged mind, this is it. I would question the sanity of people who preform this disturbing ritual.

  2. If there were demons they would have invented religion

  3. What I find even more disturbing is the need that some LGBT people have in wanting to subject themselves to religious abuse.

    As if it was not appalling enough that some forms of fundamentalist religious thinking continue to pedal medieval mindsets and practices.

    I am aware from a news article in the Metro paper this morning, a Pentecostal church in Harrow London have been offering deliverance services to gay men. . . If some one could find out the name of this church, let’s start a campaign to get these medieval practices stamped out of the London borough of Harrow.

  4. Truly shocking. Hard to believe this goes on in the 21st century, all religions need to drag themselves out of the middle ages.

  5. Something’s fishy. Who would have video taped and released this this footage on YouTube? And why? Looks more like voodoo to me. I’m stumped.

  6. Brian Burton 26 Jun 2009, 6:40pm

    It’s all a hoax!

  7. Check out the article at – metro dot co dot uk

    Homosexuals left traumatised by ceremonial ‘cure’
    Thursday, June 25, 2009

    Snippet from the article
    “Gay exorcisms are regularly being performed in Christian churches in Britain, it has emerged. The ceremony is being carried out to rid worshippers of the supposed dem­ons which make them homosexual.
    The pastor of one Pentecostal church in north-west London said he held four or five exorcisms a year and claimed they always worked”

  8. This kind of stuff has been popularised within certain church circles since the 1980’s.(ie John Wimber’s Vineyard churches).
    The practice seen here originates in Africa and is not the product of Christianity.
    Missiologists at Fuller School of World Mission decided that the church needed a ‘paradigm shift’ and this is part of that shift.
    A synthesis of African animism and Evangelical Christianity.

    I know a convicted sex offender who went for some of this stuff, and believed that it had cured him. He was encouraged to visit Christian mens groups to testify about his healing. A few days later he was in despair.
    This is dangerous. The young man in the video may well want to be free of same sex attraction,wether from his own motives or those of this church,we can only guess. But the results of this episode are only going to disillusion him,if not drive him to despair.
    With the popularity of the crass programming on so called GODTV we are likely to see a bit more of this crap.
    Demons are blamed for everthing,not just homosexuality. I mean ulcers,arthritus,masturbation you name it.
    This is not the inbreaking of the Kingdom Of Heaven, this is Hell On Earth.

  9. As a survivor of this type of abuse from my parents Church in my teens to cure me from being transsexual via ‘healing prayer’ and ‘Christian counseling’ it was in reality child abuse in the name of God.

    I have no contact with my family now my choice, I live full time in my real gender and am heading towards gender reassignment.

    These forms of child abuse must be made illegal by the government.

  10. “These forms of child abuse must be made illegal by the government”
    Yes,there must be accountability here.
    I am reminded of Jeanette Winterson’s ‘Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit’ which portrays this kind of stuff from within the old school Pentecostal movement.
    Too many Elmer Gantrys are making a fortune out of this cruel deception and other forms of manipulation.

  11. This is child abuse and is illegal. These people should be put in prison. I know America is a little more backwards when it comes to these things but I would hope that at least in the UK people would be arrested if a complaint was made. But are young vulnerable people likely to have the ability to put in a complaint?

    These religious institutions are causing great damage to our children. Public space should be kept secular to protect children from abuse. There is also female circumcision being performed on girls in London. I put that in the same category.

  12. This is troubling stuff. The exorcism would have been video taped secretely, then, and released to the media in order to expose this reality.

    Saying that this practise is a combination of African animism and Evangelical christianity makes it comparable to voodoo, doesn’t it? Voodoo has been proven to deflect the brain’s normal development and to create secret ghettos which are basically anti-social.

    I agree that ‘exorcism’ is abusive and illegal. Also, I agree with tony, IAIN and Abi1975 that a government intervention to protect vulnerable young people is needed, and can only be triggered by a legitimate complaint from a young person who has sought clinical help.

    I first saw this video clip on 365gay.com, and I wonder who sent it in to gay publications rather than to governmental social services. This sounds like a cry for help, especially since the ‘church’ has been identified. How can we follow this up?

    A wholesome mind is such a precious thing, and there’s no future for a twisted mind whose only objective is to go from one emotional high to another, seeing demons everywhere.

    I think I will check it out at metro dot co dot uk.

  13. Mihangel apYrs 27 Jun 2009, 10:23am

    it is troubling that in 21C Britain we are harboring people who believe in demons, magic etc, and willing to act on them.

    Our society includes people with primitive, tribal beliefs customs and superstitions; because we protect and aid them they manage to function despite their incompatability with civilised society. All well and good until they try to impose their stupidity on everyone else, or get it recognised and accepted through the law

  14. Welcome to the 21st Century BC.

  15. The word “RETARDS” springs to mind.

    ‘S no different to the soddin’ Catholic church with its declarations and its adherence (until I think only recently) that aversion therapy should be ‘considered’ by the ‘patients’.
    The only difference is that these gumbies are not dressed in their mothers’ gold brocade lounge curtains with lampshades on their heads poncing up and down; the message is the same, however.
    Keith.
    Salford.

  16. I have just watched that load of gubbins again on YOUTUBE.
    The Reverend Martha Blubberguts Slob and her Fatso Bum Bum Ju Ju band need to concentrate on the changeable and the something-do-able-about’able like a severe weight loss programme EACH; rather than interfering in something-un-do-able about’able like a kid’s homosexual tendencies.
    There’s not one of the bloated arseholes has missed a dinner in 30 years by the looks of them and would probably have YOUR dinner while you were thinking about it.
    Keith.
    SALFORD.

  17. Keith, I think you may have a point there. They may be possesed with the demon of gluttony :)
    COME OUT OF HIS BELLY!!!

  18. Yeah!
    Gluttonly!
    One of the 7 deadlies if I rememeber rightly?
    I wonder if Mama Fatso and de King Kong boys knows dat…?
    Keith.

  19. Or ‘Gluttony’ yet already…!
    Typo!
    Sorrow!

  20. ‘…dressed in their mother’s gold brochade lounge curtains…’ love it. That’s probably what motivated benny 16th!

    I did go ahead and check out this story in Metro News, and I returned to read the entire story on 365gay.com by searching for ‘exorcism’.

    It came as a complete surprise to me that McKinney says in the last couple of paragraphs that this young man came to the church willingly and seeking help. She says he was wearing women’s clothing, that he said he wanted to get married to a young woman, but that his same-sex attraction kept getting in the way.

    Question: Why go to a church instead of to a social worker? There’s something fishy about this whole thing, and Mihangel seems to put a finger on it. These absurd religious sects or cults so receive the government’s approval.

    As for their eating habits, there is money to be made in whipping up people’s emotions in the name of the la-a-a-w-w-d.

    Interpreting physical or mental states in terms of ‘spirits’ is as primitive as it comes, isn’t it. Would Einstein have come up with E=mc squared by chasing demons around the cosmos? Don’t think so.

    Still, there are victims here, and this kind of thing needs to be looked into by someone concerned with the mental health of all citizens, and who could implement a program or two.

  21. #20 Bentham..!

    Did you like that!!
    So glad!

    It motivates them all, Bentham!
    They’re as camp as Fanny’s, the lot of ‘em.
    [‘Fanny’s what’?… I hear you ask. ‘Fanny’s Frock Factory’, I reply.]

    I used to do it as a kid, float all round the house, draped in curtains and a lampshade on me ‘ead. Me Geordie dad despaired and ran off to the pub, bang on opening time, DAILY! I credit myself with his early demise at 53, with cirrhosis of the liver, “That bairn’s a NANCY!” he exclaimeth’d. HE knew! I wonder if old ma Ratzinger knew. Never mind! Her boy ‘done good’. I only got as far as old curtains and a lampshade; this German Queen of Rome has Prada shoes and a wardrobe Callas would have hit high ‘E’ over.
    What I am getting at with all my dross is that these preachers from this Christianised Animism crap will all, as is H.H. Regina Romae, somewhere along the line, be hiding something about themselves; hence the massive comfort eattting, which is obvious in the grotttesquely fattt tittts, buttts ‘n guttts.
    For ‘fat butts’ read ‘fat prelates’ Prada shoes, grow-Tesco-ly ornate clobber [costing thousands, btw] ALL HIDING SOMETHING.
    And ALL taking THEIR inadequacies and shortcomings out on a mite that is little more than a child.

    The pox be upon them!

    AMEN!

  22. Keith –

    Yes, I liked it. The closest I ever got to those curtains was wearing my maiden aunt’s kimono – red roses on black and with a 3-foot trailer! No, no high heels.

    I followed the trail of this exorcism and came across an article in ‘The Seattle Times Company’. It’s a newspaper, and I left a comment. The story is making headlines in the States, as well it should.

    This was the third time this young fellow submitted to this exorcism, and for the same reason. What does that tell you about why the video clip was put online? Tell me that.

    As for the exorcists themselves, I think they have found a market and are milking it. It happens. It comes to a point where they actually see an inner light, as plain as a 100 watt bulb, and the truth just flows like a river outta their mouths. Psychiatrists have a name for it. I sure would like to hear Neville’s spin on this.

    Oh Neville, NEVILLE. Could you shed some light puh-lease.

  23. jonnielondon 28 Jun 2009, 1:43pm

    I agree, Abi. This is nothing more than child abuse inflicted in the name of religion. When will we and our goverments stop pandering to ideological idiots, and make this quackery illegal?

  24. Brian Burton 28 Jun 2009, 5:59pm

    I said It once and I’ll say again; ‘A MID-SUMMER-HOAX’ me hearties.

  25. why are we all writing our thoughts on this website, and not the bigoted websites from which this c*** eminates? oh wait, we can’t.

    this footage HAS to be staged… come on…

  26. We have to remember that we rational educated people no longer believe in such medieval practices; however, not everyone is rational or educated! This sort of thing seems common in Africa as well and sadly evenin this country amongst certain communities trying to cast out demons and witches when most of their victims probably have epilepsy or mental health issues!

  27. Reality Check 30 Jun 2009, 7:46am

    I AM AMAZED HOW THE GAYSTAPO ARE EXPERTS ON EVERYTHING. Apart from your childish, immature and foul mouthed responses which show a decided lack of ability to speak in Queen’s English, you have shown quite clearly that you know nothing about the subject matter by your uninformed and hysterical comments as in “looks like voodoo to me”. I guess you have to do something to massage your damaged egos and your inability to be normal.

    You remind me of a pride of lions who all fight and scratch and growl when the pride leader brings down an animal for food and they all have to share it. Not a pretty sight.

    So these forms of child abuse should be made illegal? Are you going to make the child abuse that NAMBLA want to indulge in illegal, or is that different because they are homosexuals who love boys?

    As for trying to impose their stupidity on everyone else as you claim, have you any proof for this bearing in mind that impose means to inflict or force. My research shows that they don’t impose themselves on anyone; they offer to help in this way. If you don’t want it you don’t have to have it. Hardly the stuff of ‘impose’ but them when you suffer from truthphobia, facts are not that important.

  28. Reality Check 30 Jun 2009, 7:48am

    I AM AMAZED HOW THE GAYSTAPO ARE EXPERTS ON EVERYTHING. Apart from your childish, immature and foul mouthed responses which show a decided lack of ability to speak in Queen’s English, you have shown quite clearly that you know nothing about the subject matter by your uninformed and hysterical comments as in “looks like voodoo to me”. I guess you have to do something to massage your damaged egos and your inability to be normal.

    You remind me of a pride of lions who all fight and scratch and growl when the pride leader brings down an animal for food and they all have to share it. Not a pretty sight.

    So these forms of child abuse should be made illegal? Are you going to make the child abuse that NAMBLA want to indulge in illegal, or is that different because they are homosexuals who love having sex with boys?

    As for trying to impose their stupidity on everyone else as you claim, have you any proof for this bearing in mind that impose means to inflict or force. My research shows that they don’t impose themselves on anyone; they offer to help in this way. If you don’t want it you don’t have to have it. Hardly the stuff of ‘impose’ but them when you suffer from truthphobia, facts are not that important.

  29. Oh, dear. Hit a nerve with our oxymoron that is “reality check”, did we?

    Another dim witted fundamentalist believes in demons and possession.

    It amazes me how much religious freaks know so little about anything, but not a surprise when all religofacists suffer from realityphobia.

  30. #26.
    Reality Check

    “….As for trying to impose their stupidity on everyone else as you claim, have you any proof for this bearing in mind that impose means to inflict or force…”

    Eh?
    Yer wot?
    Are we watching the same YOUTUBE footage?
    What’s that big geezer doing stood over the writhing boy on the floor, screamin’ and yellin’?
    Looks to me very much like he is imposing himself on the kid, very much forcing himself on him; very much in the boy’s personal space.
    Ok, so the kid/his parents/whoever is supposed to have asked for help.

    THAT is help?
    THAT??

    There’s a difference between having a shit and riving yer arse out.

    There’s help and help.

    SCENARIO.
    An old biddy asks me to help her across the road.
    I don’t grab ‘old of her arm and ‘OICK her across the bleedin’ road at a rate of knots!

    That would be assault.

    I go at HER pace, smiling sweetly as we go, chatterin’ ‘bowt nowt.

    And this, on the boy is assault.

    I would feel threatened if he were to do that to me and big as he is, he wouldn’t be doing it twice.

    Keith.
    SALFORD

  31. Brian Burton 30 Jun 2009, 4:45pm

    David Skinner/Reality Check,

    UP YOURS, YOU CLAPPED OUT TERRORIST. WHY DO YOU INSIST ON SHITTING IN YOUR OWN NEST?

  32. #29
    Brian..!
    Leave them alone…!
    They’re good fun; hugely entertaining.
    I love ‘em both.
    I can only read half of the stuff they write ‘cos spondulosis of the eyeballs sets in after 2 minnitts but it’s good sport nevertheless.
    Keith.

  33. O dear . . . More deranged Fundamentalist Christian Rantings from reality check.

    When will he get a reality check himself . . . presumably not only does he see demons in every bush, but homosexual conspiracies under ever stone.

  34. # 26

    “….or is that different because they are homosexuals who love having sex with boys?….”

    Oi!
    Reality-Check, Sir..!
    Don’t go judging everybody by yourself, ta very much.!
    This generalisation just won’t do; this ‘A’ ergo ‘B’.
    I am a 100% homosexual and it would no more cross my mind to jump into the sack with a boy, than it would cross my mind to do so with a woman.
    I am not in the slightest interested in either; it’s a MAN I want not a shirt-button.
    So….
    Well, whatever comes after ‘so’……..

    Keith.

  35. Reality Check 1 Jul 2009, 2:19am

    “Oh, dear. Hit a nerve with our oxymoron that is “reality check”, did we?……”

    No.

    “Another dim witted fundamentalist believes in demons and possession……….”

    Can’t face reality can you? Your only answer it use invective and ridicule. I guess if that makes you feel superior go right ahead. After all, you’re the one that is suffering from rejection.

    “It amazes me how much religious freaks know so little about anything, but not a surprise when all religofacists suffer from realityphobia…….”

    Your anger is showing. Should go to some anger management courses to help you cope with people that don’t bow and scrape to your gaystapo gospel.

  36. Reality Check 1 Jul 2009, 2:30am

    “What’s that big geezer doing stood over the writhing boy on the floor, screamin’ and yellin’? Looks to me very much like he is imposing himself on the kid, very much forcing himself on him; very much in the boy’s personal space. Ok, so the kid/his parents/whoever is supposed to have asked for help…..”

    As usual you ignore the obvious to justify your pompous outrage. You answered the question yourself dear boy. Note this is what YOU said….

    Ok, so the kid/his parents/whoever is supposed to have asked for help…..”

    In my understanding of the English language which I taught in high school, asking for help is not imposing force. Again, your ignorance of the issue is showing. In deliverance ministry, the person giving it is not talking to the person; they are talking to the demon inside them. Depending how strong and stubborn the demon is and how long it has been inside the person, will determine the methods necessary to use.

    You obviously have not realised that your objection is not to the deliverance, it is to the fact that the subject matter is homosexuality. Otherwise it would not feature in your paper. If the deliverance was for an unclean spirit, you would not give a damn.

  37. Reality Check 1 Jul 2009, 2:33am

    “UP YOURS, YOU CLAPPED OUT TERRORIST. WHY DO YOU INSIST ON SHITTING IN YOUR OWN NEST?…”

    A lovely piece of English prose Brian. Did you learn your english in the gutter with your fellow rejectionists?

  38. Reality Check 1 Jul 2009, 2:41am

    When will he get a reality check himself . . . presumably not only does he see demons in every bush, but homosexual conspiracies under ever stone.

    No, what I actually see is a load of guys who have been deceived into believing that…..

    You are born a homosexual and that’s the way you will be for the rest of your life.

    This lie does not allow you to see the cause of the problem is the rejection that you suffered as a child.

    Homosexuality is normal.

    It is impossible not to have a same sex attraction despite the contrary evidence.

    If you are allowed to marry like men and women do you will be happy.

    We are to blame for your high rate of suicide, not the constant rejection that you suffer from your own kind.

  39. Reality Check 1 Jul 2009, 2:53am

    “Reality-Check, Sir..!
    Don’t go judging everybody by yourself, ta very much.!
    This generalisation just won’t do; this ‘A’ ergo ‘B’.
    I am a 100% homosexual and it would no more cross my mind to jump into the sack with a boy, than it would cross my mind to do so with a woman.
    I am not in the slightest interested in either; it’s a MAN I want not a shirt-button.”

    I am not sure what generalization you are referring to. NAMBLA is reality and their avowed aim is to make it legal for men to have sex with boys. That is a specific fact, which being a homosexual I would have thought you would know all about them.

    You may want a man not a shirt button as you so quaintly put it, but one person’s experience is not the stuff of quantitative research. If it was I could say that a 42 year old homosexual named William Allen told a seminar that he had scored sex with over 2,000 different boys.

    Fortunately, someone at the seminar was not impressed so they reported him to the police and six weeks later he hanged himself. Are you telling me that it was OK and he should not have been reported?

    P.S. I don’t have sex with my children or grandchildren. They feel very safe with me because they know I love them and would do nothing to harm them. Nice try but it was a dismal failure and somewhat pathetic accusation. But then, when you are cornered, I notice that you have a habit of coming out with supercilious comment to cover your embarrassment when you are confronted with the truth about homosexuality.

  40. Reality Check 1 Jul 2009, 3:07am

    “Don’t go any further in this discussion till you give coherent answers to the above questions.”

    All three promises are found in the New Testament, but being a God hater, I doubt if this fact will even get as far as your brain because your anger and bigotry does not allow it to absorb rational evidence and I have no doubt you will make some banal comment to prove what I have just said.

    “P.S Tigalethpileser – You debate like a child (‘anyone who disagrees with me is a nazi’) – how old are you actually?”

    P.S. Here are some of the words your lot uses to try and ridicule those who do not agree with you….

    dim witted fundamentalist

    religofacists

    YOU CLAPPED OUT TERRORIST

    deranged Fundamentalist Christian

    I guess when you are motivated by anger, that is the best you can do and why nobody takes you seriously.

  41. #34.

    Reality Check

    You say…

    “…In my understanding of the English language which I taught in high school, asking for help is not imposing force. Again, your ignorance of the issue is showing. In deliverance ministry, the person giving it is not talking to the person; they are talking to the demon inside them. Depending how strong and stubborn the demon is and how long it has been inside the person, will determine the methods necessary to use”.

    Well thanks for that, Reality Check, I think.

    I feel so much more enlightened, now that I have read your treatise.
    I did not realise that in ‘deliverance ministry’, the minister is talking to the demon ‘in possession’ – the minister is not talking to the person ‘possessed’..
    It doesn’t look, to me, like he is ‘talking’ to anybody.
    It looks to me very much like he is ‘ranting’.

    Perhaps you might have used the word ‘addressing’ the demon and then it would not have raised the linguistic query in my mind.
    Because as sure as eggs is eggs, Mr. Minister ain’t “talking” to nobody.

    In spite of my, on occasion, silly mangling of the English language and my frequent over-use of Lanky, I too, have taught English all over the world, from Bangkok to Buenos Aires; my fooleries hear on this sight are done to liten the atmos fear and hopefully inject a likkle rye smile on the faces of sum of the other contributors.

    I also speak several lamwidges and hold degrees in Romance Linguistics.
    I also proof-read texts (past tense, as in ‘not any more’) for a huge translation agency in Poland for many years and although you are a high-school teacher of English, I could drive a coach and pear through your contribution at # 34.

    However my time is expensive and my fee would be prohibitive and anyway, I got fed up with all that years ago.

    Wot I am gerrin’ at is that like you, I am no Dumbo either; it is all an act.

    I like to get people thinking I am a clodhopper and a numpty.

    Then, when the mockery has abated, I look at those who have remained, knowing that there, amongst those two or three, will be at least one friend, or at least someone who has twigged that I am not a complete tit altogether.

    I dismiss the rest.

    I learned this at school because even at 5 or 6, I knew I was different to the other boys, very, very different .
    As I now know, it was the ‘demon’ -as some might say, as indeed you, Reality Check, might say, – the ‘demon’ of homosexuality; and I respect that viewpoint; I don’t share it; I do respect it.

    I was so different to the other boys even at that age that I was left out of everything BUT I had one talent and that was mimickry and a pitch-perfect ear and was for ever in demand to ‘do’ Sister Moribunda..or ‘do’ Brother O’ Clodghead..or say the ‘Pater Noth-ter’ like th-tuttuttuttering, lithping, boozy Father Breyn-Ded…”P-p-pater noth-ter qui eth in coeli-th, thanctifffffichetur nnnnoommmen tuumumum….”

    This got me laffs, got me pals and did as was intended, got me out of twicky thituation-th where I would have been beaten up because I wouldn’t join in any ball games, in case I got dirty or hit with a ball…!!!

    I was the class tit, I was good for a laugh and nowt else. “Simpson doesn’t like rugby? It’s ok! he’s funny…good for a laff…”
    “Oi..!! Simpo..!! Do Mr.Clancy…!!

    I was left alone and in piece to pwactise my Showpan, dweth my doll-th, help my mum in the kitchen and all thort-th of other ‘goily’ things.
    I am now a reasonable pianith-t and a very good cook.
    My only sorrow is that my ‘goiliness’ was the despair of my dad who, I am sure, drank himself to an early (53) grave on my account.
    Sorry dad…but deal with it!
    I had to!
    I still have to!!
    What is that coming at me from the corner of the page…?
    Oh it’s the long-handled hook.
    I guess I have been on tooo longgg.

    Last word, Reality Check, Sir, and what I am getting at.

    Homosexuality is NOT a demon.
    Homosexuality is NOT a choice.
    Now as for what homosexuality actually IS?
    Well we are all waiting to find out from the people who really matter and to whom even the popes apologise, albeit sheepishly, and centuries later; the scientists.

    Until then, it is pointless, in our higgerance, to condemn those who are so orientated; pointless to believe them possessed and rant at them as they lie writhing on the floor; pointless to say that their place in Hell is assured; pointless to say that they are ‘intrinsically morally disordered'; pointless to put wires around their nappers and ty to shock them into another’s perception of ‘normality'; pointless to beat them up; pointless to stab them to death; pointless to bully them at school; pointless to stitch pink stars onto their prison garb; poin…….et seq.

    I have wented.
    I have bored you all too long and anyway me chucky yeggs and toast is ready.

    Keith
    Salford.

  42. “All three promises are found in the New Testament, but being a God hater, I doubt if this fact will even get as far as your brain because your anger and bigotry does not allow it to absorb rational evidence and I have no doubt you will make some banal comment to prove what I have just said. ”

    And how do you know the New Testament is true? You see the book of Mormon and the Qur’an to be nonsense – why do you make the exception in your case? Come on, let’s hear a rational reason.

    (gettign out the world’s smallest violin, Reality Check wails “P.S. Here are some of the words your lot uses to try and ridicule those who do not agree with you….

    dim witted fundamentalist

    religofacists

    YOU CLAPPED OUT TERRORIST

    deranged Fundamentalist Christian”

    Sure thing, and a moral necessity to remind people what you are. How old do you believe the earth to be? Do you believe Noah’s flood to be a real event? Do you seriously believe, like the dim-witted Sarah Palin believes, that man lived peacefully with dinosaurs? Do you welcome the end times, and gleefully look forward to genocide and a mushroom cloud over San Francisco and New York, in order to bring about the second coming of Jesus Christ (if so, I hope you are barred from military service at the very least)? Do you believe the US military should be inflaming muslim fanatics in Afghanistan by handing out bibles in pashtun? I can tell lots aboout you depending on how you answer those kinds of questions.

    Mark my words, I do take you seriously. You and your crackpot messianic beliefs could put an end to civilisation.

    Luckily, in the civilised world at least, people are walking away from religion. But even so, we need to keep you in Check.

  43. “Can’t face reality can you?”

    That demons exist?!?!?!?!?! Yeah, that’s right, it me who can’t face reality because I know demons don’t exists. You are nothing but a degenerate with a learning disorder.

    What a laugh you are. A joke. A buffoon.

    “Homosexuality is normal.”

    The only thing you said that has any evidence. The rest is nonsense. Well done. You get a gold star.

  44. theotherone 1 Jul 2009, 2:54pm

    realitycheck? Seems you have a slim understanbding of reality.

    There are no deamons realitycheck and I’m truobled that you and other Fundies see Deamons and not Angles in the trees of Peckham Rye.

  45. TomPaine (40) correctly states regarding Reality Check that he considers it ‘a moral neccesity to remind people what you are’.

    Similarly, I like to remind people what we are, and here is an example (cut and pasted as per Reality Check):

    1899 – the English actor CHARLES LAUGHTON was born on this date (d. 1962). Laughton hated the way he looked, hated the face he was born with, and despised his body. Nonetheless, his face was his fortune and helped to make him one of the great character actors in the history of films, a performer able to portray the most diverse range of personalities with flamboyance or finesse as each part required. Henry VIII, Quasimodo, Captain Bligh are just a few examples of Laughton’s stage stealing tour de force performances. No matinee idol could possibly have been assigned the variety of human types that Laughton played in his thirty year career. As a Gay man he felt cheated because he was not handsome, even though he was blessed with a wife whose love and intelligence allowed her to share him with his Gay male friends. Elsa Lanchester’s foreword to her husband’s biography is a warm and candid document, well worth reading. It is a tribute to the English actor’s genius and, unwittingly, to her own.

    My point being that many, many gays are gifted…not possessed by evil spirits. There is a difference. Reality Check is not gifted. ‘Nough said.

    Happy First of July!!!

  46. Reality check there are no Demons, and those that believe in them are operating from a medieval mindset which has no place in the modern world, in the 21st century science has superseded religious dogman.

    Thats why those who continue to believe in Demons warrant being referred to as deranged.

    Reality Check you are a deranged Fundamentalist Christian

    We can see that
    Most people on this site can see that
    The reason you cannot see this is because you are so deranged and out of touch with reality.

    Get a reality check, reality check.

  47. I cannot recommend Anthony Grayling’s article in today’s Guardian, on the curse of religion. I quote most of it below, as it is highly approporiate to the conversation on this thread:

    “………So I repeat: in a free society people must be allowed to believe what they like, even stupid, ignorant and absurd things, provided they do no harm to others. Religious organisations have every right to exist and have their say, just as any other self-selected, self-constituted interest group does, such as trade unions and political parties. But religious organisations have to recognise that they are such groups, and nothing more than such groups – that they are civil society organisations like trade unions, existing to protect and promote their own interests – and although they have the same rights, they do not have any greater rights.

    And here is the problem: the religions think they have much greater rights than anyone or anything else – rights to be heard, to be exempt from laws, to be awarded special privileges, to be given our tax money to run their own schools, to have representatives in the House of Lords (26 bishops plus all those retired bishops and archbishops who are now life peers), to be given hours and hours of air time on publicly funded radio every week, to have charitable status, to have their hospital chaplains paid for by the public purse, and so on and endlessly on, getting a huge slice of the pie out of all proportion to the realities: which – as an indication of the overall picture – are that about 3% of the population go to Church of England services every Sunday, less than 10% of the population going weekly to any church, temple, mosque or synagogue. And the state goes along with it!

    How can this be tolerable? All religious organisations should be relegated to the status of private self-selected and self-constituted NGOs like trade unions and other lobby groups, should survive on what money they can raise from their adherents, should have the same and no more than the same rights and entitlements as any other such organisation and should stop getting privileges, money and an amplification for their views (views, never forget, derived from the beliefs of illiterate goat-herds in ancient times) from government.

    What would we think if the Labour party or Conservative party received taxpayers’ money to run Labour party or Conservative party schools to teach 3- and 4-year-olds their party principles? Or astrologers, crystal gazers, voodoo merchants, druids, witches – all self-described and self-selected as such, and all parti-pris in their own way?

    Let us note how the archbishops and rabbi stand together to block progress towards more humane laws. Technically, of course, each archbishop is doctrinally obliged to regard the other one and the rabbi as one or more of heretic, infidel or apostate; their organisations spent most of history fighting, persecuting and executing each other; indeed all religions have to regard all other religions as getting it wrong and misleading their votaries.

    But when the religions are after a common goal, as with getting our tax money for their faith-based schools, or exemption from discrimination laws, or seats in parliament, they are a united front. This used to be called hypocrisy, but no doubt modern theology has come up with a convoluted polysyllable to redefine it.

    Not that a new name helps much; rubbish smells as bad no matter what you call it.”

  48. (I cannot recommend the said article highly enough, Iwas going to say…. you knew what I meant of course….)

  49. Tiglathpileser 2 Jul 2009, 1:55am

    “Keith said Homosexuality is NOT a choice.” Got your blinkers on Keith?

    “There is no scientific consensus favoring a genetic cause of homosexuality, and the American Psychological Association’s assertion is merely that:
    • …most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors.

    The emphasis is on environmental and cognitive factors, because these can be studied scientifically.

    In May 2000, the American Psychiatric Association issued a Fact Sheet, “Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues,” which includes this statement:

    “Currently, there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.”

  50. Tiglathpileser 2 Jul 2009, 1:57am

    Keith said “Homosexuality is NOT a demon.”

    Proof please Keith.

  51. Creationist Idiot is back again – showing his ignorance of science and inability to do critical thinking by asking someone to prove a negative.

    Reality Chick, you have to provide evidence FOR something, which as a Christian, you cannot do.

  52. Reality Check 2 Jul 2009, 2:22am

    TP asked “And how do you know the New Testament is true?”

    How do you know that it is not true?

    TP said “Sure thing, and a moral necessity to remind people what you are.”

    I didn’t know you believed in morality as in its moral for you to ridicule others but not for others to do the same to you. What’s your next joke?

    TP said “Luckily, in the civilised world at least, people are walking away from religion.”

    ‘Fraid not TP. On average up to 100,000 people a day are converting to Christianity, especially Muslims.

    Will said “You are nothing but a degenerate with a learning disorder.”

    Hasn’t affected my abilities Will seeing as I have four degrees.

    Will said “Homosexuality is normal. The only thing you said that has any evidence.”

    I didn’t say it was normal and can you produce any evidence it is? Of course you can’t.

    Will said “, it me who can’t face reality because I know demons don’t exists.”

    Evidence please?

    Theotherone said “There are no deamons realitycheck.”

    Evidence please?

    Bentham said “My point being that many, many gays are gifted…not possessed by evil spirits

    Yes they are and yes they are.

    JK said “Reality Check you are a deranged Fundamentalist Christian”

    Evidence please? (Your opinion is not evidence)

    JK said “The reason you cannot see this is because you are so deranged and out of touch with reality.”

    And the reason you are so blind to the facts is that you suffer from a debilitating disease called truthphobia.

  53. Reality Check 2 Jul 2009, 2:24am

    P said “Reality Chick, you have to provide evidence FOR something, which as a Christian, you cannot do.”

    And you have to provide evidence for nothing which as an atheist you cannot do.

  54. On average up to 100,000 people a day are converting to Christianity, especially Muslims.”

    Would love to know where you get those figures from. Where is religion thriving? Countries with little access to education, poor literacy? Even Answers in Genesis admit – as they did on AFA.net last week, that young people are losing interest in organised religion. Now 16% with no belief in America. The only church showing serious growth is the LDS – mainly due to birth rates. Funnily enough Utahns are the biggest consumers of internet porn in the states. What a surprise.

  55. TP asked “And how do you know the New Testament is true?”

    “Reality Check: How do you know that it is not true?”

    I can’t disprove there is a teapot orbiting Mars, too small for modern telescopes to see, right now. I can’t disprove leprechauns and elves. I cannot disprove that St Thomas Aquinas levitated around Notre Dame, or that Mary was raptured bodily to heaven, as Catholics are required to believe.

    If you are an evangelical, Calvinist Christian – I suspect you must be – why discard all these, and discard the book of Mormon, the Qur’an, the Oddysey, the Icelandic Sagas, the legend of the Cherokee, Beowulf and King Arthur, but make an exception for your book?

    What’s more likely, given what we know about history – that nature went out of her course, or that the equivalent of an urban legend got out of hand, msunderstood, misinterpreted, doctored, edited, like most reports on Fox News today?

    You’ve got all your work ahead of you to prove your case. You tell me, how Billy Graham knew all the victims of 9/11 were ‘in heaven now, and wouldn’t come back even if they could’. I have no idea what it is like to know the mind of God on such matters, but I do know that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    And very best of luck to you, because if you do, you will be the first to do so.

    It was recently said that the only mistake Bernhard Madoff made was to wildly promise great returns in this life, rather than the next, and he would would have been able to put the Kosher stamp on his wrongdoings, live as a free man with a fleet of Porches and personal helicopter – just like your typical Hour of Power preacher, in fact.

  56. And you have to provide evidence for nothing which as an atheist you cannot do.
    – Andromeda is coming our way and will collide with the solar system in just 2 billion years, tomorrow in astronomical terms. There will be nothing from something, again. Who designed that?

  57. “And the reason you are so blind to the facts is that you suffer from a debilitating disease called truthphobia.”

    – That’s the answer JK. How blind of you to think homosexuality was natural, like every medical and sociological institution in the western world, and reject Reality Check’s far more plausible explanation, that it’s all the work of Satan.

    And how anti-Christian and thick of you to assume all the fossils in the ground show evolution happened over billions of years. Didn’t you know that actually, Satan planted them all there to stop you from believing in God?

    Remember Satan moves in such mysterious ways, he can make statistics and all sorts of converging lines of evidence look as if scientists have a much better explanation than Palestinian bronze age peasants for life’s origins, for disease, for meteorology or the Earth’s relation to the sun.

    If you think you want a cup of tea this morning, it’s actually Satan telling you. So resist!

    ++PS When all these churches go out of business, as Focus on the Family nearly did in November, will we see a massive rise in demon resposession orders?

  58. #47 & #48

    Tiglathpileser.

    #47 No I haven’t got my blinkers on because I am not a horse; nor do I like hay.
    I haven’t got much else on either, since it is so bleedin’ hot….not a pretty sight.

    Mind you, HAY-ON-WYE is pretty tasty.

    I cannot dispute at all nor have I any intentions of arguing with any professional body or religious group about the thinking or research they are doing; the beliefs they hold about homosexuality itself; I leave all that and the quotes to others on here; leave it and step back in amazement at their grasp of it all.

    I haven’t the brain to do all that. I am a linguist, with university degrees to show and there my talent ends. If it were not for that gift, that ability, that perfect mimicry, I would have been in menial jobs all my life because I am ‘two-short-planks’ thick. I can add, subtract and divide, like an 11-year old and there my maths dies. I cannot understand algebra, geometry or any of the other stuff and have – or at least used to have – the weals on my hands to prove it, on a daily basis from the Irish Christian Brothers because of those shortcomings in the early 1950’s…

    “Simpson! There are apes on the Rock of Gibraltar wit’ more brains dan you! Does yer mudder know she has such a t’ickee for a son..?! (WAK! WAK! WAK! WAK! WAK! WAK!…leather strap x 6)

    In the seminary, as a student, would-be priest, I had not a clue what the philosophy was all about and used to sit, all habited up, staring out of the window while the philosophy professor went on and on and onnnnnnn about nowt…as I thought, Hegel/Schmegel, Kant/Kunt, Descartes/Applecartes; over my head totally (that is where I learnt, myself, how to go on and on and onnn, as I do on these pages…!)

    In any argument about politics, philosophy or religion, theology, whatever, you would be arguing with yourself; I would long ago have left you stood standing and been raiding the fridge; in fact it would not have got off first base because I would have said ‘Holddddd it right there…I can discuss the tones of Thai with you for 10 hours..but not Aquinas for 10 seconds..!’
    So I was a ‘no-no’ as a candidate for the priesthood anyway, right from day one because I am no good with ideas or concepts or visualisation or argument.
    Indeed I could not even begin to paper a room, even today; I cannot lift up the bonnet on the motorway if the car poops but just stand there like some hopeless tart waiting for athitht-anth…which never comes because I am paunchy, grey, 6’7″ and 70…and not a blonde and coivy, petite and 20-year-old winsome thing…!

    It was a side issue, and completely unrelated to my inability to do the clercal studies -and therefore continue to reach priesthood – which caused me to lapse from continuing to practise my Catholicism.
    Just days before I left the seminary, I happened to mention that as well as being as thick as a bull’s lug, which was why I was leaving my studies, I thought I might also be homosexual.
    I had just come across the word some time earlier (at about 17 years old) and it pretty much described me.

    It was then that the electro-convulsive therapy was advised, literally as I was on the doorstep leaving the building, case in hand, waving my bye-byes to seminary chums.
    “This doctor in Liverpool will be able to help; go with God; we shall paray for you; please pray for us; good bye, Keith”

    Boomp! gone!

    I thought about the shock treatment for a couple of days, back home in Blackpool, after all that is what the priest advised and that was ‘God talking’.
    I went to Mass as usual on the Sunday, decided during that Mass that electric shock treatment would not be for me.
    I got up in the middle of that Mass, off my knees, and walked out of Catholicism there and then and have never been in a church of any kind since; that was July 1959; 50 years ago to the day.

    What I will argue about until my last breath is that in MY case, ME, homosexuality in MY skin, in MY brain, MY outlook, it was not ANY choice.
    I was different as a kid of 4/5 as I have described elsewhere ad boredomeam (much worse than ‘nauseam’) on these pages.

    How can you choose your sexuality at 4/5/6?
    Choose it?
    I doubt whether I would have been able to spell it at that age.
    The whole concept of sex is not an issue at that age, anyway; a kid is interested in what’s for tea tonight mum and why won’t my Hornby train work.
    A kid does not wonder if he will be sleeping with Arthur or Martha tonight and much less does he worry whether he IS bleedin’ Arthur or Martha.
    I am looking at it all from personal experience, from ME.
    The ME that I know everything about, not what some doctor/priest/trick-cyclist THINKS he knows about ME .

    Never mind the learned books, the doctors, the psychiatrists, the popes; I am not interested in a syllable they utter about ME or their generalisations; that is for others.
    I know ME from the very depths and I know that at no stage was there any choice.
    I am ME – and only ME and my Creator know ME.

    And that is why I no longer concern myself with tribal rituals like church-going and silly punts in even sillier get-ups spoutin’ what they think the Creator told them, to be relayed, in turn, by them to me…for a fee..of course.
    They are not conduits, except in that they are self-appointed; not conduits carrying His waters to me; He cannot be using pipes, intermediaries. He refreshes me, feeds me directly and on a daily basis like the good Father he is; no need for lackeys in daft clobber poncing about.
    The birds have no priests and they are fed; am I not as valid as a bird in HIs eyes..?
    He already told us ‘yes’ to that one.
    Simple.

    I do not know – and cannot explain – Mr.A.N. Other and HIS homosexuality; but I can explain ME to ME and I am as happy as Larry to be able to do so, although it came very late on in life, despite the swining bastards, all got up as they do, in their mothers’ throw-outs.
    Doctor / The Very Reverend Whoever can talk till the cows come home about homosexuality in general terms and may very well believe that homosexuality is a choice.
    I respect that erudition and have no means to challenge it and no interest in doing so.

    But I will just repeat in their surgeries/confessionals ‘no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, when it comes to ANY doctor ascribing ‘choice’ to ME or that I am ‘in sin’ when I am in the confessional with ANY priest… and in ‘priest’ I include H.H. Benedict XVI.

    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no… and again..no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no..!

    And I will go to my Maker in that frame of mind and stand before Him and take my chance.

    I chose NOTHING OF THE SORT AT ANY TIME.

    Keith
    SALFORD.

  59. #48
    No!
    You tell me what ‘demon’ / or ‘a demon’ is, first.
    In spite of my linguistic abilities, I haven’t a clue what the word means.
    So I am at a disadvantage in that I cannot engage with you since I do not speak that particular language.
    Demon.?
    What is ‘demon’
    It is the concept that I do not understand and that is why I do not use the indefinite article ‘a’.
    Is it ‘demon’…a concept, an uncountable?
    Or ‘a’ demon…’a demon’ as in identifiable entity, countable, as in one bitater, two bitater, three bitater, four; five bitater, six potato, I really am a bore…!!”
    Keith.
    SALFORD.

    Sorry ’bout SALFORD all the time.
    I ‘as to keep writing it else ash’ll ferget wurr a live.
    Funny age now, tha’ knows..
    Pheww..!
    What a relief to lapse back into Lank-speak …

  60. Reality Check I repeat once again you are a deranged Fundamentalist Christian

    We know longer live in medieval times in which demons where thought to be responsible for a whole plethora of ills. We now live in post-Christian times where the major paradigm is rationality, not superstition.

    If you want evidence choose any academic discipline, I think you will find that demons are not regarded with any degree of creditability as an explanation for illnesses, homosexuality or what ever else you think is caused by the supernatural.

    The fact that you cling to the supernatural in rather pedantic fashion even in the light of the advances made by science, is testimony to why we think you are deranged and deluded in your diffidence to reality.

  61. Brian Burton 2 Jul 2009, 6:48pm

    COR BLIMEY KEITH, you still trying to De-Crank these cranky Skinner clan. What non-de-plumes are they using now, in order to cast their vile fork-tounged promises to (they hope) the vunrable.
    Dump the lot into the cesspit they crawled out of.

  62. Oi, Brian…!
    Don’t be pinchin’ my script…!
    “Dump..”..!…is MY word; copywroted..!

    Scott Rennie?
    Ring a bell…??

    Yeah..you’re right of course…we’s all wastin’us breath and they’re all one and the same geezer any road up.

    Cheers…!
    Keith.

  63. YA-A-A-A-H-O-O-O-O !!! It’s a…a….a vision!!! I can see it clearly now. There’s a creature….no…wait now… no, it’s a man, yes, a man lying face down in his…what’s that smell…vomit…and I can see..I see-e-e-e…demons..de-e-emons coming out of his belly…and on his driver’s license…I can see his name…looks like..something check…ality…Reality Check..THERE..I GOT IT!!! A vision, a vision, another little vi-i-i-ision…tral-la-la, and the beat goes on…pass the Bar-B-Q sauce, willya!

  64. Reality Check 3 Jul 2009, 1:48am

    TP – Who designed that?

    It obviously wasn’t you.

    TP – tomorrow in astronomical terms.

    What you might call an astronomical figment of your imagination.

    TP – Andromeda is coming our way and will collide with the solar system in just 2 billion years

    Evidence please (your opinion is not evidence).

    TP – I can’t disprove there is a teapot orbiting Mars,

    You can’t!!!! I thought the gaystapo knew everything.

    TP – I can’t disprove leprechauns and elves

    Obviously your education was woefully deficient.

    TP – , like most reports on Fox News today?

    And like most of what the homonazi write.

    TP – I have no idea what it is like to know the mind of God on such matters,

    Of course you don’t. How can you when according to you he doesn’t exist? A bit like me saying “I know what my dad thinks” and you say “no you don’t as he doesn’t exist.” Homonazi fairy tales.

  65. Reality Check 3 Jul 2009, 2:34am

    TP – How blind of you to think homosexuality was natural, like every medical and sociological institution in the western world,

    Evidence please.

    TP – assume all the fossils in the ground show evolution happened over billions of years.

    Evidence please.

    TP – ++PS When all these churches go out of business, as Focus on the Family nearly did in November, will we see a massive rise in demon resposession orders?

    Evidence please

    KEITH – What I will argue about until my last breath is that in MY case, ME, homosexuality in MY skin, in MY brain, MY outlook, it was not ANY choice.

    Unfortunately one example does not constitute a body of research.

    KEITH – The whole concept of sex is not an issue at that age, anyway; a kid is interested in what’s for tea tonight mum and why won’t my Hornby train work.

    Then why is the gaystapo trying to make it compulsory for primary kids to have sex education in school particularly emphasizing homosexuality. Please don’t deny as I have been following the debate for a couple of months now.

    KEITH – I am ME – and only ME and my Creator know ME.

    But all your homonazi friends say he doesn’t exist.

    KEITH – despite the swining bastards, all got up as they do, in their mothers’ throw-outs

    You obviously have repressed anger towards the Catholic Church which is making it very difficult for you to see the truth.

    KEITH – And I will go to my Maker in that frame of mind and stand before Him and take my chance.

    What a gamble, preparing to suffer eternity in hell just of a few years of so called pleasure.

    JOHN K – We know longer live in medieval times in which demons where thought to be responsible for a whole plethora of ills. We now live in post-Christian times where the major paradigm is rationality, not superstition.

    Satan has well and truly got you fooled hasn’t he!!!

    BENTHAM – I see-e-e-e…demons..de-e-emons coming out of his belly

    They don’t come out of people’s belly.

  66. Speaking of things that are relevant:

    Today! We received word that the New Delhi High Court struck down the law (a demon) that criminalized consensual homosexual sex, in a move that will radically change life for millions of Gay, Indians and represents a huge shift for Gay rights in the developing world. In an unequivocal judgment, Justice S. Muralidhar invoked the country’s first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, and his belief in inclusiveness as laid out in the constitution. The law (a demon) was a holdover from the British colonial administration, and was similar to laws (demons) still on the books in many former colonies across the developing world.
    __________________________________________________________________

    Now, what do you suppose they put in that Bar-B-Q sauce? White lightning?

  67. Is Thomas Disch the Right God for You?

    (An Advertisement}

    Once a mortal, soon to be in Heaven, I may be
    your best chance to distinguish yourself
    as someone specially Blessed and bound for Glory
    without going to a lot of trouble or expense.
    The Scripture is out there now
    [The Word of God, Tachyon Press, $14.95],
    proclaiming my Divinity and promising Salvation.

    So why not declare yourself a believer Now
    and reap all the associated Tax Advantages?
    Start with a little Tom My God shrine beside the BBQ
    and before you can say Glory Be the whole back yard
    and all its gardening tools are tax-deductible!
    If your tax returns are challenged, show this poem
    to the judge and ask him how many believers
    constitute a Faith. More than a dozen?
    That’s what Christ started with. The Word of God
    has got at least that many blurbs on its jacket.
    And more keep coming in!

    Then there’s this: Believing on Me is a good way
    to trump someone else’s ace in an argument.
    Suppose you come up against a McCain supporter
    at a School Board meeting, who wants you to vote for
    his guy while at the same time getting the Board
    to buy a line of Science textbooks that show
    how Darwin was no more than a know-it-all atheist
    and no kind of scientist at all. You can insist
    the School Board buy My book instead (there will be
    a ten per cent rebate for orders of fifty or more).

    Or suppose you just want to masturbate
    and you’re a teenager whose Mormon
    (or Catholic or born-again Baptist) parents
    absolutely forbid you to spill your seed
    after the fashion of Onan. As one of my followers,
    you are free to spill any amount of seed
    (just do it in your own bedroom, alone;
    otherwise somebody could be arrested).

    N.B.: adoring me is not a crime,
    it’s your God-given right! So have yourself
    the same kind of fun other believers do
    by making a public nuisance of yourself
    and pissing off all the officious old farts
    you know. Insist that your First Amendment rights
    be respected. And save Saturday night for Me!

    So Be It!

    *********** ************* ************ ************

    Want more? I gotta million ‘o them, Cheality Reck ! ! !

  68. Come on Reality Check, how do you know god exists, and how do you kniw the mind of god? what are your sources? do you get briefings fom him? Let’s see some evidence, beyond having to take your word for it.

    Disprove the existence of leprechauns then.

    Andromeda is on its way, whether you want it to be true or not, Reality Check – that’s what the scientific evidence said. Some intelligent designer to make that happen.

    Since Aristotle’s first theory on the Milky Way to present times, there’s still so much astronomers need to learn about the galaxy our Solar System lies in. Over the course of time, the observations made on the Milky Way itself seemed harder to do than on any other galaxy, simply because they had to be made from within the galaxy, offering very little perspective.

    That is why the latest findings by scientists at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics should come as no surprise. As it appears, not only were we wrong about the speed and weight of our Galaxy, but the likelihood of a collision with a nearby galaxy is also bigger than ever.

    Astronomers have predicted that a collision between the Andromeda galaxy and the Milky Way is bound to take place. The result of that would be the formation of a new, larger galaxy..

    Andromeda is a spiral galaxy of a similar size to ours, and is believed to have collided with at least one other galaxy in the past, according to specialists. Despite predictions, we shouldn’t worry though, since astronomers predicted the collision will take place in three to four billion years’ time. The European Space Agency will send the Gaia mission in late 2011 to investigate our galaxy.

    Measurements have shown that Andromeda is approaching the Milky Way at almost 140 kilometers per second. The most recent study by astronomers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics suggested that our Galaxy is actually rotating 100,000 miles per hour faster than thought, which means a significant increase in mass, but also a greater gravitational pull that increases the likelihood of a collision with Andromeda or other smaller nearby galaxies.

  69. TP – I can’t disprove there is a teapot orbiting Mars,

    RC: You can’t!!!! I thought the gaystapo knew everything.

    TP: You, Reality Check, are the one who claims to know everything: the origins of the cosmos, the origins of life, to know who was responsible, the claim to be on intimate terms with god, to know that the whole universe was made with you in mind, to also know the existence of demons and satans, and to know the tell tale signs of possession.

    Well what are we all wasting our time for. Let’s close down Yale, harvard, Oxford, all the seats of learning around the world. Here on the PinkNews website is someone with all the answers, Reality Check! I love it when Christians claim to be full of humility and yet make the most arrogant and stupid claims. And then stamp their feet like little children when they are ridiculed for their beliefs, saying ‘everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi’.

    [TP – How blind of you to think homosexuality was natural, like every medical and sociological institution in the western world,

    RC: Evidence please.]

    – feel free to come into the 21st century any time you like.

    [TP – assume all the fossils in the ground show evolution happened over billions of years.

    RC – Evidence please.]
    Go and visit a museum, learn something.

  70. Now don’t all heave a sigh of relief at once but I have been trying to post a repost-ette to young Reality Check but it (the site) won’t have it.
    I haven’t included any URL’s or addresses; I am wise to that.
    However it is a tad long, as in ever the windbag, long as in, think War and Peace…?
    Is there a ‘length’ limit (ahem!) on here…?
    Should I get me scissors out or just go away and die…
    Advice in whatever form would be apprec’d
    Keith.
    SALFORD

  71. Dear, sweet RealityCheck…!

    Me? Moi?
    Repressed anger to’ards the RCC?
    Well, you got that right, I’ll give you that!
    Tha’s a clever lad…!
    But it’s not that repressed…I bokkle nowt up now.
    I let it all hang out; mostly on here.
    I used to bokkle.
    I don’t any more.
    I used to sit and cry about the loss of my ‘Holy Mother’ -the RCC.
    Cried for years.
    I don’t any longer; I have realised she is a conniving-scheming, hypocritical-thieving, murderous-old BAG..!

    Anyway 10 out of 10.
    I have been reading your reposts to TP.
    ReaChe! Luvvie!
    A bit P.M.Q.’s in their petulance, a tad, no?
    A bit yaboo-sux, no?
    A bit ping-pong, no?
    I hit the ball to you, you slam it back to moi, I hit the ball to you, you sla…zzzzz
    Anyway, each to his own. I never could get interested in any games involvin’ a ball of any sort.
    (Ahem!!)

    YOU SAY THAT “..one example does not consitute a body of research”
    Spot on correct, again, presh.
    I am not interested in research.
    I do not want to know the opinions of others about why I am the way I am.
    It’s not the ‘flu.
    I GLAXO-KLINE-SMITH-WELLCOME the research they do about the ‘flu; the ‘flu is a disease; transient; curable, if recurrent.

    But homosexuality?
    I have done all the research about ME.
    Looked deep into ME and have a Ph.D. -‘summa cum laude’ -about ME.
    I know how I tick.
    The other ME’s out there will no doubt have to follow the same path.
    Along that path, some of us will converge, chat a while and move on, all ‘Children of the Pink’ as Brian Burton calls us.
    Some will be ‘for’ gay marriage, some not; as in another article here on Pink News, currently; some for this, some for that.
    One long Canterbury Tale.
    I cannot understand, nor do I want to, how Johnny ticks or Freddy; I have my hands full learning about ME.
    And following on from that, YOU SAY THAT the gaystapo are emphasizing homosexuality in the schools.

    I do not know what they are doing, or even if there is a ‘gaystapo’
    I haven’t followed it and care even less.

    I dumped teaching 40 years ago after I hit a boy for fooling around, disruptificating the others in my ‘A’ level Spanish class, days before the exam.

    Better to have today’s gaystapo pressing for the wide understanding of the hugely complex subject of human sexuality than the 9th century crap that I was taught by silly old bags in ridiculous costumes, standing up, on the hour, every hour, to recite a prayer to a Virgin, without the slightest i-cuffing-dea what a Virgin is, was, or could be.
    Nor did the daft Tom Hunts (it rhymes with Hunts….I am loath to exhibit my nollidge of Anglo-Saxa salt)..er..nor did they teach us one iota about sex.
    Indeed I went into the religious life, i.e. into a R. Catholic religious order, and took a vow of celibacy while still thinking it was for pee-ing through.
    And that was at, what, 15? 17?
    Junior school kids know more about ‘it’ today than ever sheltered, altar-server me did, until I was almost 40; that’s when I lost MY cherry, thirty bleedin’ nine.!!
    So don’t talk to me about gaystapo or even Gestapo.
    If the gaystapo of the 21st century are about educating in the schools wholly, roundly, effectively, compassionately and scientifically and about imparting sound knowledge instead of whispers, in-your-endo, tikkle-takkle, smirks and all ‘sex-education-by-total-silence-ignore-it-and-it-will-hopefully-go-away’ as was the case of the education I received from the GESTAPO nuns and brothers of the RCC who ruled by threat and the tawse, then gimme the gaystapo any day of the week.
    I do not believe that the gaystapo are ‘promoting’ homosexuality.
    You cannot ‘promote’ any sexuality.
    You is.
    Or you ain’t.
    What you can do is educate fully about sexuality.
    You cannot advocate being homosexual just as you cannot be shocked with wires out of it.
    If the gaystapo are encouraging/advocating kids to be such, then they will fail dismally; it cannot be done.
    But as I say, I have not read any of it because I am not interested; I am too busy learning about ME; too busy doing what the nuns and brothers should have been doing for me, when I was a kid instead of breathing hellfire and damnation and ruling by threat and the strap; traipsing us back and forth, back and forth to church to pray to virgins…
    24 lashes I got in the course of one cold February day, thanks, Brothers.!
    YOU, ReaChe, have done the research, been following it all up, so until I do it for myself, could I but summon up the interest, I bow to your superior knowledge.

    Goodbye and good riddance century number 9..!
    Welcome! Come in, century 21..!

    YOU SAY THAT.. “…all my homo-nazi friends say that (God) doesn’t exist…!
    The word ‘all’ is an absolute, a superlative as you know, having taught in High School, you said..?
    Pretty much inclusive of everybody.
    Not ‘some’
    Not ‘most’
    Not ‘mainly’
    Not ‘more or less everybody’
    ‘All’.
    I have no friends, homo-nazi or otherwise.
    I keep myself totally to myself much more than any Trappist could ever hope to; I never had a partner; never wanted to; too selfish and know it, so I never inflicted myself on anybody, not man, not woman.
    Several, on here’s pages, would fall into the category you so pejoratively describe as ‘homo-nazi’ but to me, many come across as believers, Brian Burton for one, who actually prayed for me not so long ago; I asked him to say a couple of dozen for me as he was off with his partner to church; French Canadian Jean-Paul for another and recently the gay minister Scott Rennie, although he did not contribute to the pages except in a passive sense.
    ‘All’ gay.
    But ‘all’ …saying that He doesn’t exist…?
    I dont think so.
    And being anti-God, anti-religious, irreligious, or even over-religious is not the prerogative of gay people.
    There are as many of that ilk who have the requisite 2.4, the mortgage, the hatchback and do the school-run.
    You don’t have to be gay to be a church-hater.
    I hate ‘church’, Reality, I hate the bureaucracy of it all, the operatic costumery.
    I do not hate God.
    I do not know what He is, nor what His name is, nor what His game is, nor do I think we CAN know.
    To know Him, we would have to BE Him.
    Only He can comprehend Him.
    So religion is all through a glass darkly and man-made ultimately.. and thus dust.
    So your use of ‘all’ is inappropriate.

    And finally, and aren’t you all glad!
    (I know I am…!)

    YOU SAY THAT I am prepared to suffer Hell for all Eternity just for a few years of… pleasure.
    Well, RealityCheck, do you know what?
    I have dumped that idea as well.

    I do not believe any longer in Hell.
    I do not believe in sin either; in evil, yes; in sin, no.
    And those two losses of belief have come about only very recently.
    I am no theologian; as I have said before; I wouldn’t have the brain.
    I have come to these conclusions all by myself with no help from anybody in the reclusivity of my O.A.P’s flat.
    I would have been a binman if it had not been for my lamwidges (nowt wrong wi’ bein’ a binny, lads…! No offence! Vital chaps..!)

    Hell?

    A concept for keeping the cash rolling in.
    Create the reason for your (the RC Church’s) existence, the forgiveness of sins, the confessional, and you have a cash crop; a milch cow.
    And what led to that is my barmy, homespun bit of theology which anyone who cares to, can tell me where I am going wrong with….and yes, I HAVE thought of Free Will.

    My own Diet of Worms.

    If Christ, as God, died for us on Calvary then that sacrifice must have been ‘all’…it must have been sufficient for the remission of sins.
    There is none higher than God and God died in expiation of Man’s sin.
    That must have been sufficient; had to have been.
    If then, some still go to Hell despite the sacrifice of the Godhead, then that Godhead cannot have been sufficient; cannot ultimately be God.
    Sin/evil therefore must be greater than the Godhead; God dying was not sufficient, since there has been less than total salvation for all if there is Hell/ the need for Hell.
    Even Hitler, Stalin, Amin, Pol-Pot and Margaret Thatcher will one day be subsumed into the presence of God.
    There can be no Hell.
    To say that there is, is to say that there is a force equally as divine as God.
    Now I am deffo no Thomas Aquinas; the Beano is more my style but another, more theologically savvy bod, on here could no doubt drive a bus thro’ the crud I have just writted…. or should that be wroted…?
    Certainly there is evil, and Hitler and Stary Dyada Jo should be burning now, but I know they are in the presence of God, now.
    Man is not God and Man cannot know the mind of God.
    And anthropomorphising Him is as pointless an exercise as putting bootees on a poodle.
    Sin, as rammed down yer neck by the daft Catholic Church, is how many times you had a ham-shank ( it rhymes; think about it for a minnit)
    They know full well that all likkle lads have to ‘contend’ with themselves from an early, early age.
    They make it a sin.
    You have to go to church to report the ‘sin’ and usually you drop a penny in t’ box on t’ way out; light a cangle or two cangles if you’re feelin’ flush and sooo grateful for absolution.
    And another couple o’ cangles on t’ way out tomorrer ‘cos, as eggs is eggs, you’ll play at bein’ a Midland banker again and ag………….
    Brilliant marketing…so I am wrong; the ‘daft’ Catholic church ain’t so ‘daft’ after all..

    You’ll then play ecclesiastical bingo by saying 3 of this and 9 of that on the 1st Friday of the month unless there’s an ‘R’ in that month or if it’s more than 2 ham shanks you’ve had and it’s the same priest you confessed to, he will see that you’re an inveterate little ham-shanker, Midland banker and make you do 5 decades or maybe even 15 and/or 14 Stations of the Cross.

    For all this gunge, you’ll get remission from ‘time’ (..Time..? After you are dead?) spent in Purgatory, the heavenly equivalent of Strangeways.
    90 days off your sentence and 45 days off and if the Pope blesses you in his ‘Urbi et Orbi’, you’re out of nick right away.
    Bureaucracy on a scale Communism could only have dreamt of.!

    By all that’s holy! What crap!
    And people believe it, still.!!

    All too anthropomorphic; too human; God cannot possibly work like that, can He, really, come on; really!!?

    Numbers, numbers, numbers!
    Ecclesiastical Bingo.!
    And there is an angel recording all this?
    And God can possibly be working like that?

    It’s 7 am now.
    I’ve been bleating for hours.
    So as Harry Corbett used to say with such exasperation and his hand up SOOTY..

    Bye bye everyone.!
    Bye bye…!

    Keith.
    SLORDFAD.
    haha..!

  72. Yep…it must have been too long, my first attempt; ever the windbag.
    I scissored it.
    Good fun though, innit all…!

  73. Will the Scouser 3 Jul 2009, 6:41pm

    Gay sex is really great in itself – if you’re gay. Knowing that these “Christian” fundamentalist wingnuts disapprove and would like to stop us, whether by exorcism or by other means, adds just that extra bit of spice to it.

  74. #71
    Love it, WillScouse …and so true.!

    I shall get a hail of bullets I know but what the f***..I’ve been shot at B4!
    It WAS better when it was illegal!
    So much SPICIER.
    Espesh when the pretty, blond ‘agent provocateur’ cop was having as good a time as you were and didn’t know what to whip out first, his notebook and pencil or his…Monty Python (notes)

    Haha…!
    Keith.
    SLAGFORD.

  75. #73.
    Was that with Dirk Bogarde and Anne Bancroft (?) or am I thinking ‘Suddenly last Summer..’..?
    Anyway, you are probably not an old fart like me.
    I look back on those days rather like the folks from the war years do (or did now rather) with the Ack-Ack shelters.
    Fond, as a memory, the togetherness and all that but grim, in reality.
    It is the looks on the baby faces of those poor young entrapment officers when they realised that they were actually enjoying what they were doing; not the job; not the entrapment; but el nitio gritio.

    Hahaha.

    I actually asked one…”Don’t tell me you’re not gerrin’ just as much of a buzz out of this as me..!”

    His face lit up as red as Ratzinger’s Pradas.
    Keith.
    SLOWFORD.

  76. Will the Scouser 3 Jul 2009, 9:14pm

    It was with Dirk Bogarde and Sylvia Syms. I was alive when that film came out, but too young to know what “homosexual” meant; I doubt if I’d ever even heard the word, and it certainly wouldn’t have meant anything to me if I had.

  77. #75.

    Yessssssss.!!

    WillScouserlad ..!

    What a journey you have just taken me on!!

    I have just YOUTUBED it and you are spot on; Sylvia Sims, yes.! yesss.!!

    I remember the film; I remember wanting so much to go and see it but being absolutely terrified about being seen going into the cinema, the Princess it was, on the prom at home in Blackpool; well sort of on the prom; opposite Butlin’s Metropole.

    I walked up and down outside for about 2 hours trying to summon up the guts to go in, in case anybody saw me and put two and two together and shouted ‘PANSY BOY’…hahaha!
    I can remember now, even at 70, the sick, sick feeling in my stummick; the panic; the fear!
    And so you are right to have pulled me up sharp about my flippancy in saying that it was better when it was illegal.

    It most definitely was not.
    (Maybe a bit spicier though..? Grant me that? Hahaha..!)

    I had not long come out of the Catholic religious order with the injunction still ringing in my ears from the religious Father Superior to go and get electro-convulsive therapy.
    I had just walked out on religion too, at about the same time, because I just could not go and get ‘crisped’ and the panic and the overwhelming sense of loss at abandoning my faith was all so fresh in my mind and also there was a case about a certain John Vassal, a spy, and one or two others, whose names escape me for the minnit.
    I used to rush downstairs and get the papers and read them as fast as I could before handing them to my dad in as pristine condition as poss. since I was forbidden to look at the Sundays, even as a young adult…Hahah.
    I so wanted to learn about this strange thing, this HOMOSEXUALITY, this illness, this gateway to Hell, this anathema, this …this….this…..grrrrrrrr..!
    And there was nothing about it anywhere to be read; in Larndarn maybe but not up in poxy Blackpool, Bywater-on-Sea.

    How times have changed.
    I may have all me dates and chronologyologyology wrong but it is all in there somewhere like a gigantic minestrone.

    Yes!
    The panic!
    I so remember the panickckckckck..!
    Now it’s balls to the lot of them and UP YOURS from Ratzinger to Reality Check and mates.
    Anyway, no more!
    We’ll get done for ramblin’ on and onnnnn; well I will, Will.!
    Hahaha.
    Ckuff em all, the twots..!
    I don’t panic now.
    I am as mouthy as ckuff.
    I wish I had known all those years ago what I know now.
    I am now the teenage rebel I should have been, hahaha
    If I had hair, I’d be a punk, by jaypers would I…!
    When I should have been a rebel, I was on me knees, in a frock, praying to virgins, in Latin!
    How off the wall is that!
    I look at today’s youngsters wirth nothing but admiration and not a little envy.
    We were so buttoned up.
    Today’s kids say ‘UP YOURS, YER TOSSERS.!!’ and quite right too.

    And, lastly, isn’t it funny; most of those male actors in that film were themselves Dot’s mates.

    Could go on and on about how excited your trip has made me, down Memory Lane.
    But I won’t.
    I’ll get chased…

    Keith.
    SLOBFORD.

  78. Folks, the ridiculous “reality check” and “Tiglathpileser” are the same person. Who is also “Archdeacon Brian Hurtin”…

    …apparently his split personality makes him think he’s smarter than the bottom feeder retard he really is.

  79. Reality Check 4 Jul 2009, 4:44am

    TP – since astronomers predicted the collision will take place in three to four billion years’ time.

    In your last post it was like now!!! Had a bit too much to drink have you?

    TP – Disprove the existence of leprechauns then.

    I don’t have to as I never raised the issue.

    TP: You, Reality Check, are the one who claims to know everything: the origins of the cosmos, the origins of life, to know who was responsible, the claim to be on intimate terms with god, to know that the whole universe was made with you in mind, to also know the existence of demons and satans, and to know the tell tale signs of possession.

    Annoying isn’t it when you discover your not the know all you thought you were.

    TP – And then stamp their feet like little children when they are ridiculed for their beliefs, saying ‘everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi’.

    Show me where I said this.

    [TP – How blind of you to think homosexuality was natural, like every medical and sociological institution in the western world,
    RC: Evidence please.]
    – feel free to come into the 21st century any time you like.

    – If that is evidence, I am so glad that I don’t indulge in it.

    [TP – assume all the fossils in the ground show evolution happened over billions of years.
    RC – Evidence please.]

    Go and visit a museum, learn something.

    I can just see it now in your classroom. “Mr. Paine, do you have any evidence for evolution?”
    “Shut up boy, go visit a museum and learn something”
    “But aren’t we supposed to learn something from you.”
    “You have got to be joking.”

  80. Cameo appearance here – just to remind everyone that RC has had more attention than he deserves on this thread.

    Crescendo and Curtain please.

  81. Bentham very wise words . . . I agree just ignore RC and other religous crack pots who do not deserve the attention they crave and receive on this site.

  82. Reality Check 7 Jul 2009, 1:29am

    JK – I agree just ignore RC and other religous crack pots who do not deserve the attention they crave and receive on this site.

    Thanks for the laugh JK. I don’t crave anything as I get all the attention I need from my loving wife, children and grandchildren. Probably because I don’t suffer from rejection like you do which means that I don’t have to prove anything to anyone so I am able to give myself to others and get a lot of pleasure out of it. I love my five adorable grandchildren who bring me so much pleasure especially when they give me a big hug and tell me that they love me. It is easy for them to do that because I give them lots of hugs and I always have time to spend with them and make them feel loved.

  83. #82
    RealityCheck.
    If I had a ‘loving wife, kids and adorabubble grandkids, I sure as hell wouldn’t be on these pages commenting every fart’s end like you do.
    You are never OFF the ckuffing site…!
    Think of all the time and extra cuddles you are depriving your family of with all them wasted hours spent bashin’ a keyboard.
    I don’t know one end of a tennis court from another so I don’t haunt the sports pages to see what the latest score is, like you do on here, seeing what we low-lifes are spewing up about now.

    You remind me me of Victorian Britain where they used to visit the local Bedlam for entertainment on a Sunday ahhh’ternoon…to take pity on the poor inmates.

    Summat’s duffin’ yer cuffs up, lad, and I know EXACTLY what it is.

    I have seen too many over the decades NOT to know; prime ministers; popes; cardinals; bishes and archbishes; royalty…

    I call it “Spot Dot’s” ..as in Dorothy’s mates.

    It has given me acres of yield over the years and I am seldom wrong.

    And I’d only need to clap eyes on thee once and I’d have thi knowed.

    Keith.
    SALFORD.

  84. Well said Keith. . .

    Pointed
    Decisive
    and spot on

  85. KEITH83 – Think of all the time and extra cuddles you are depriving your family of with all them wasted hours spent bashin’ a keyboard.

    Spoken like a true homo who believes that everyone is like him and that life is only about what goes through their befuddled mind.

    Clearly you don’t have sufficient intelligence to work out the very obvious fact that children go to school so I have plenty of time to do other things whilst they are there. But then I should not be surprised as you are one who knows nothing about the joys of marriage so you would not understand the dynamics of family life. Ad for JK saying your comment was spot on…don’t make me laugh!!!

  86. Reality Check 25 Jul 2009, 4:43am

    TP69-[TP – How blind of you to think homosexuality was natural, like every medical and sociological institution in the western world,

    RC: Evidence please.]

    – feel free to come into the 21st century any time you like.

    [TP – assume all the fossils in the ground show evolution happened over billions of years.

    RC – Evidence please.]
    Go and visit a museum, learn something.

    Just as I thought. No evidence of any kind. Just throwaway line to make you sound good as though you know something which you obviously don’t.

  87. Sugar Plum Fairy 28 Jul 2009, 10:34am

    AQ2-If there were demons they would have invented religion

    They did.

  88. Sugar Plum Fairy 28 Jul 2009, 10:48am

    TP54-Countries with little access to education, poor literacy?

    I dind’t know your were a racist Tom?

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