Excellent work Mr Tatchell, wish I could have been there. This is the kind of “bridge building” we need with other communities like this, to show our solidarity and help improve relations.
The Iranian people deserve true freedom and human rights, something they have been denied since shortly after the Islamic Revolution of 1979.
Ahmadinejad – what a pathetic little twerp! This is the guy who recently boasted that Iran had the best democracy in the Middle East …Hmmmmmmmm best for whom??? Seems like best for election-thieves!!!
May Allah have pity on Islam if he and his religious backers are typical!
Mr Ahmadinejad is quite correct, Iran does have the best democracy in the Middle East, but that’s not saying much, look at the competition! Seriously though, I don’t think there’s any doubt that he didn’t actually win, but neither is there any doubt that there was some vote-rigging. It’d be best if Iran held fresh and transparent elections, or had a Government of national unity, but so could we here in the UK. Whatever happens, the West should keep out of it before our Governments screw up and start yet another war.
WELL, homosexuals may exist in his country but he has to manage to explain them about this sickness. Of course, killing homosexials is unacceptable. But hey, homosexuals themselves have to be honest and face their sickness without trying to normalise it. Why would you normalise something which is abnormal and harmful? Western people lost any sense of healthy sexual lifestyle and no wonder why the Western world is in such trouble family-wise. Homosexual activists are the real danger for the health of the Western world. And, oh man, how blind they are, covering their filthiness with the notions of “human rights”!
Zotova . . . Homosexuality is no longer a mental illness
Zotova . . . The problems facing the World in the next 50 years are global warming not homosexuality
Zotova . . . You are a sick narrow minded homophobic bigot.
Zotova: harmful to whom, exactly?
Isn’t it sad that even on a gay news website you still can’t be free of the backward proponents of the “healthy sexual lifestyle” (so healthy they spend their time looking up gay websites!) of the Eastern Bloc[kheads]?
Still, better that even persons with such conspicuous limitations are given their human rights, I suppose, than simply liquidating them (a technique they’re no doubt familiar with).
Just be a little more exact.
Homosexuality NEVER WAS an illness.
I was told as a catholic seminarian 50 years ago that I was sick.
That was the position held then.
But it never was an illness; it’s just that the Biblical loo-loo-bells have thrust that crap at us for aeons.
Like the sun going around the earth…science has shown that to be the crud that it is; thing is half the world is still in the 4thC B.C.
I know where you are coming from, it has been removed from the list of mental illnesses….so…I am very sooooorry to be so pernicketty with your comment but we have to be exact with these clowns and deffo not give the twots an inch.
Zoltova you are a prat, end of.
And as as for Mr. OurManInaDinnerJacket, well, he is another.
How gracious of the numpty to agree that homosexuality ‘exists in Iran’.
How thankful we should all be to the gawp for that concession.
It’s like admitting to the existence of the sun, Mr President of Iran, you tuncing daft sod.
Problem with ‘tuncing’..?
Just rearrange the letters, starting with ‘c’
Zotova get back to your iranian dungeon where you can be happy sharing your monstrous thoughts with other criminals like you. You have the country that you deserve, as long as your people think the same way as you do. Evil with a lame excuse.
I know Poland is a long way from Iran but it is the same bleedin’ mind set only kafflik.
I lived and worked in Poland for many years as a tranlator and proof reader of English texts, in S.E. Poland, Lublin, the same hole that Wojtyla lectured in at the Catholic University there before becoming Pope JPII.
In order to pre-empt the question everyone I worked with wanted to ask, about any missus, I stopped it all short and announced on the first day that I was/am homosexual and would there be any questions.
But one comment was the same as the President of Iran’s, but put in a slightly different way.
“Oh so you are homosexual?. I am sorry then for how lonely you will be in Poland.!”
Now then; can I now go on to tell you all about policeman Leszek?
Oh and then the was Wladek the electrician and Marcinek and……and ….and….and oh I cannot forget Grzegorz!
Taki’ przystojny chlopiec!!!
No gays in Iran…no gays in Poland…wanna bet…my fanny..!
(Still sore and walkin’funny).
For Zoltova read D.Sk…?
I’ve always thought Mahmoud to be kinda cute with those winsome eyes and scruffy beard.. He should be seen and not heard.
Keith . . . I stand corrected – and you are right.
If we think about the history of sexuality it was not untill about the 1890s that term homosexuality emerged before later being pathologised by the medical profession.
So you are right it never really was an illness untill the late 19th early 20th century.
You were not corrected; I wouldn’t be so bold…!
I was being necessarily pernicketty because we will only get it chucked at us that ‘it only got removed from the list of diseases because of the vociferocitude (?!!) of the gay lobby’.
That’s wot we’ll get.
Can’t let ‘em get away wi’ nowt,’cos as sure as eggs is eggs they’ll not let you…
(a.k.a. Pernicketty Pants..!)
Because this story involves the President of Iran…I cannot drum up enough enthusiasm to even comment.
My Anti-Catholic postulator. I’ve looked and listened to you on many of these threads. The over-all impression I get is: ‘Me Thinks You Protest Too Much.’ One of your bits of advice was ‘Dump The Lot!’ in the case of the Rev.Rennie. Well, I do’nt think he’s so inclined to do that..as you did! Please do’nt think I blame you in any way, for you not entering Holy Orders, as you had wanted all those years ago. I too was rejected my Priesthood, in my own Non-conformist Church, which I took to after my rejection of C. Of E. High Church. They knew I was Gay but thought I just would’nt make the grade. So, at least we have Church rejection in common! You liked Sandy Powell? You would have made a first rate (Wordsmith) comedian if your mind had not been pre-occupied with Seminaries. Tatty-by for now.
How dare you!!!
How ABSOLUTLEY DARE you…!!!
I have never ‘postulated’ in my life…
I was well brung up, I was…!
You are right of course.
I am a bit obsessed, well MORE than a bloody bit.
I should take my own advice and dump the lot; after all, they ain’t chasin’ me to go back.
But it takes some doing, matey, it takes some…
I just so want them to realise that they are wrong, Gali-bloody-leo-wrong!
And you are right about Mr. Rennie; good luck to the man.
Now the very second you answered with his name, I thought, “Who? Sandy Powell? Is it ‘eck as like.!
But you was right again and had I had the nowse to just GOOGLE the catchphrase ‘Can you hear me, mother?’ up it popped, ‘Sandy Powell….’
Brought back happy memories, Alma Cogan, ‘Lord Charles’ the dummy…and so many more.
So thanks for being ‘right’..
Ooops! Better ‘shut it’ now else I’ll be gerrin’ towd off fer ramblin’ on and on and onnnnnn..again.
Zotova: no Queers in Poland? You could have shocked me with the men getting their cocks out for a drink in Queer Bars, with the women who get their cunts out for the same reason, the women who I’ve came across happly sleeping with people of either Gender. Odd that…
Zotova, what about the sickness among straight males some of whom are in the military who rape women and female children across the globe? The exportation of women to the west for sexual abuse by straight males? What kind of lifestyle do you call that? I suppose that’s ok because they’re straight? What about the sickness of straight adulterers, the pimps and johns who frequent female prostitutes? Get your own filthy house in order first before casting the first stone, you moron!
Thank you my friend, you always can guarantee me a good chuckle with your answers. I am off to Church tomorrow morning 21st. with my Partner. We have been together since 1970, and were Civil Partnered three years ago. God has been good to us both over the years and so we never fail to say thank you Lord. We have good reason to Keith, both my Partner and I have made full recoveries from life threatening situations in the last three years. Therefore, now, we lead a quiet kind of life, a very happy life and being Christians, we know we will meet up across the great devide…..See you later keith.
Well say one for me…
No, make that 101..!
And now that is it…no more on here; otherwise we will get it in t’ neck fo’ running a Mutual Admiration Society.
I felt rather lucid all day, today and have just been listening, this evening to the REITH LECTURES on BBC RADIO 4, chaired by Sue Lawley from Oxford University.
Very interesting; it was about gay marriage and such, in part.
Went over my head completely, needless to say, the earlier lucidity abandoning me.. but I’ll listen a few times and it should sink, in most of it.
I never had a partner; not ‘me’.
Probably because I only like straight men….so it is a non starter; you trip yourself up before you are even stood up if you get my meaning.
I hope you do get my meaning.
If you do, you’ll have one over on me; I haven’t a clue what I am talking about.
Weird really; feel very akin to Q. Crisp Esq.
My flat is certainly as filthy as his, if nowt else.
See you on another rant somewhere.
Don’t forget….say them 101…
Piss off, Zotova!
Zotova reminds me more of Ivan Gumilev or whatever he was called *rolls eyes*
As for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad – he’s been hoist by his own petard or whatever the phrase is. It made me smile to read him say that after his denial that there were any gay people in Iran.
Zotova would have a good mate in the Present Pope; their views seem the same “GAYS DESTROY THE PLANET!!!!” Oh PLEASE!!! The list of Gay Haters grows but so do our friends and allies so lets not get too down hearted. As to the Iranian Gays, without being patronising I feel very sorry for you with a Govt and a Theocracy in charge!
I’ll say it again, as some people here are still gullible enough to believe that:
A) This is a ‘spontaneous’ event.
B) That 100,000 protestors constitutes a ‘majority of the people’s will’ in a city of over 13 million people!
C) That there are no similarities between the US backed colour coded ‘revolutions’ in Georgia and the Ukraine.
D) The Zionist owned Sky News (and this is from someone who believes in Israel’s right to exist) and British Government tool BBC News are reliable sources. The BBC has again been caught engaging in mass public deception by using photographs of pro-Ahmadinejad rallies in Iran and claiming they represent anti-government protests in favor of Hossein Mousavi. This is after Western news agencies showed Georgian troops in their own villages and labelled them as ‘Russian invaders’ when they were not.
Do I like the fundamentalist laws in Iran? No. Do I like how they treat women in Iran? No.
But then do I like the fact that WE installed the oppressive Shah Of Iran and Gestapo-like security force SAVAC (responsible for mass murder/torture) just to get our hands on THEIR oil??? NO. (The Iranian’s overthrew this Western stooge, but at a cost, namely the Ayatollahs).
THIS HAS THE CIA/MI6 AND MOSSAD WRITTEN ALL OVER IT:
Have I failed to notice that nearly all of the signs/banners/flyers these 100,000 thousand have banners in English???? No.
Have I failed to notice that the U.S sponsored ‘revolutions’ in the Ukraine and Georgia (to get them away from Russia’s influence) were also colour coded for effect? No.
It’s f–king ridiculous. Regime change, and I mean proper regime change, should come solely from within and should reflect the will of the MAJORITY of the people. (who when polled by two actual independent Yanks weeks before, supported Ahmadinejad 2 to 1)These protestors are opposition supporters, Westernised students (a minority) and other groups egged on by Washington. We need to stop interfearing in other country’s affairs.
Saudi Arabia is just as, if not more backward and brutal than Iran, yet we say nothing, why? ……Because they sell us their oil.
Zotova you should be put into a stockade in front of your house and labeled a homophobe, just for your ignorance. AND the sentence should be for as long as hold onto these stupid, stupid ideas. It’s your sick mind that needs to be encourage to change. You see stupidity/ignorance can be treated, ones sexual orientation can’t!
lesebella: didn’t you notice that there where recent elections in Iran?
Really, I’m wondering who actually is the more gullible, Lezabella.
Have you considered that students demonstrating with english slogans are more likely to make an impact with the world’s media, since English is far better understood than farsi? Or that the usual paranoid, rabid bleating of hatred that often follows Friday prayers, is also accompanied by placards in english?
The call for regime change is clearly coming from inside the country, as you can see, for 10 days now. This is no longer about the vote rigging, which is beyond doubt, only by looking at the statistics – like the vote for Ahmadinejad going from 32000 to about 190000 in Ilam province.
Why shouldn’t people be influenced by the considerably greater freedoms, and standard of living that people take for granted in the west? Human rights are universal, and people do not want to be owned by the theocrats. Young people, who make up the vast majority of the population, are making it known. But of course, to the politically correct BBC, this all for freedom now comes as a complete surprise.
What is Iran now good for, apart from rugs and carpets? Anyone with the slightest amount of intelligence and need for freedom leaves the country, leaving it to the illiterate and brainwashed. The brain drain is massive as a result.
Blaming all their self-made problems on a foreign conspiracy is just emphasises the backwardness of this senile, paranoid, gibbering, crackpot, murderous, terrorism-sponsoring cleric, whom western leaders grovellingly call ‘supreme leader’ (note how those who take part in khamenei’s staged demonstrations are overwhelmingly old, too).
What are you going to say, on the day you face the young Iranian democrats who risked their all in the battle, and explain to them just what you were doing and saying when they were being beaten and gassed?
And can you really say all that to the fiancee and relatives of a young educated woman called Neda, murdered by Khamenei’s mafia thugs? If you want the true picture of Islamofacism, it is written in red streams, all over her face, from 0:12 seconds:
I am all for self determination, but Iran has exported murder all around the middle east, including Lebanon / Hezbollah, death squads in Iraq mudering British and American troops, and building away at its nuclear programme. We must not have a nuclear Iran and I am amazed their WMD facilities have not been taken out yet.
Really, who actually is the more gullible Lezabella?
Have you considered that students who demonstrate with English slogans are more likely to make an impact with the world media? Or that the usual paranoid, rabid bleating of hatred that often follows Friday prayers, is also accompanied by placards in english?
The call for regime change is clearly coming from inside the country, as you can see, for 10 days now. The vote rigging is beyond doubt, only by looking at the statistics – like the vote for Ahmadinejad going from 32000 to about 190000 in Ilam province.
Although, the fight has clearly moved beyond that now. It’s about regime change. Why shouldn’t people be influenced by the considerably greater freedoms, and standard of living that people take for granted in the west? Human rights are universal, and people do not want to be owned by the theocrats. Young people, who make up the vast majority of the population, are making it known. But of course, to the politically correct BBC, this all for freedom now comes as a complete surprise.
What is Iran now good for, apart from rugs and carpets? Anyone with the slightest amount of intelligence and desire for freedom leaves the country, leaving it to the illiterate and brainwashed. The brain drain has crippled the country.
Blaming all their self-made problems on a foreign conspiracy is a sign they have nowhere left to go – what else would you expect from a backward regime run by a senile, paranoid, gibbering, murderous, terrorism-sponsoring cleric, who has lost all sense of reality (note how those who take part in khamenei’s staged demonstrations are overwhelmingly old, too).
They are running out of options, as the regime brutally crushes them in the street and picks their leaders off – and infact anyone who can think – one by one. Their only hope now is to bring the country to a halt with a general strike, updates about which you can see here:
http:// andrewsullivan.theatlantic .com/
Tell the fiancee and relatives of a young educated woman called Neda, murdered by Khamenei’s mafia thugs and goons, it’s all just an American conspiracy. If you want the true picture of Islamofacism, it is written in red streams, from her nose and mouth, from 0:12 seconds:
Iran’s junta has exported murder all around the middle east, including Lebanon / Hezbollah, death squads in Iraq mudering British and American troops, and building away at its nuclear programme, with the aim of obliterating a sovereign state. We must not have a nuclear Iran and I am amazed their WMD facilities have not been taken out yet.
Yes I did, ‘the other half’ and I also noticed that an independent poll conducted showed Ahmedinejad had a TWO to ONE lead over his rival. Iran’s refusal to be subservient to the West is the reason for this.
These protests are CIA-sponsored, as all the ‘colour coded’ revolutions have been. And they all have another common theme……signs, banners and flyers in English for the benefit of the West.
And now the BBC, CNN and ABC are all showing the death of the young woman known as ‘Neda’ and are actively stating that she was killed by government forces; when nobody even knows what angle she was shot at or anything like that. These Western news agaencies are despicable showing her death…….the same news agencies who REFUSED to show the deaths of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans at the hands of Coalition forces. Yet they think it’s OK to show Neda’s death as long as Iran looks awful?
Our media actively demonises Iran so when the time comes when military action is on the table, which it will be soon (from either Israle or the U.S) we, like the sheep we are, go “Oh Iran’s horrible it does this, this and this let us ‘free ‘ them “…….yeah, like we ‘freed’ Iraq.
It’s all bollocks and people are fucking stupid for swallowing blatant propaganda.
There are only a handful of countries left in the world who are not under the thumb of the Anglo-American political and corporate order:
3) North Korea
And every single one of them is demonised in our media (rightly sometimes), and yet cesspits like Saudi Arabia, one of the most brutal regimes in the world, are left alone. Why? Because they sell us their oil.
Well I am not sure who is the more gullible Lezabella.
Have you considered that students demonstrate with english slogans are more likely to make an impact on the world media? Or that the usual paranoid, rabid bleating of hatred that often follows Friday prayers, is also accompanied by placards in english?
The call for regime change is clearly coming from inside the country, as you can see, for 10 days now. This is no longer about the vote rigging, which clearly happened by the way: only by looking at the statistics – like the vote for Ahmadinejad going from 32000 to about 190000 in Ilam province. There is no way a 30% swing can simply happen.
Why shouldn’t the freedom fighters be influenced by the considerably greater freedoms, and standard of living that people take for granted in the west? Human rights are universal, and people do not want to be owned by the theocrats. Young people, who make up the vast majority of the population, are making it known. And have done for some time. But of course, to the politically correct BBC, which only talks to theocrats and thugs from the regime, rather than university professors or the young generation, this all for freedom now comes as a complete surprise.
Blaming all their self-made problems on a foreign conspiracy is just emphasises the backwardness of this murderous, terrorist-sponsoring regime, headed by a senile, paranoid, gibbering, crackpot cleric, whom western leaders grovellingly call ‘supreme leader’ (note how those who take part in khamenei’s staged demonstrations are also overwhelmingly old).
And to claim that the CIA is more likely to have bumped Neda off when we have hours of footage of brutality from Khamanei’s mafia goons on mobile phones, jamming the ‘net, is ridiculous.
I am all for self determination, but Iran has exported murder all around the middle east, including Lebanon / Hezbollah, death squads in Iraq mudering British and American troops, and building away at its nuclear programme. We must not have a nuclear Iran at any cost, and I am amazed their WMD facilities have not been taken out yet.
Adrian T- This will take while, my apologies……..
I am well aware of what Iran is/does. I despise the Islamic laws regarding women and gays. I know they’re sending IEDs over the border to kill our (and the U.S’s) soldiers in Iraq. But don’t forget, we installed a dictator (the Shah) in there to control THEIR oil in the 50s, the Shah butchered and tortured thousands, then we armed Saddam to the teeth to again batter the defiant Iranians, Saddam used chemical warfare on them, weapons WE gave to him, and now we’re on their doorstep-again…..is it any wonder they hate us and feel threatened???
I know they sponsor Hezbollah etc. But we sponsor Israel! I want Israel to exist and I hate the Islamic extremism of the Palestinians, but when a flimsy rocket is fired from some kid in Palestine, the Israelis bombard an entire community with F-16s. A panic attack induced from a crappy rocket landing in Serdot is not equal to hundreds of deaths in Palestine. And to think…..we sponsor that! We’re just as bad Adrian!
Back to Iran’s elections and the following protests…..
Can you not atleast see similarities with the US sponsored colour-coded ‘revolutions’ in Georgia and the Ukraine?
Georgia = “A significant source of funding for the Rose Revolution was the network of foundations and NGOs associated with American billionaire financier George Soros. The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies reports the case of a former Georgian parliamentarian who alleges that in the three months prior to the Rose Revolution, “Soros spent $42 million ramping-up for the overthrow of Shevardnadze.” Speaking in T’blisi in June of 2005, Soros said, “I’m very pleased and proud of the work of the foundation in preparing Georgian society for what became a Rose Revolution”. George Soros is a major, major political player in Washington who has previously bankrolled George Bush. George Soros is also a member of the Council On Foreign Relations (which basically outlines U.S/Western foreign policy in private).
Ukraine= ” According to The Guardian, these financiers of the revolution include the U.S. State Department and USAID along with the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs, the International Republican Institute, the Bilderberg Group, the NGO Freedom House and George Soros’s Open Society Institute. The National Endowment for Democracy, a foundation supported by the U.S. government, has supported non-governmental democracy-building efforts in Ukraine since 1988.”
All that effort, money, lives…and for what? To get these countries away from Russia’s influence. That’s it. That’s all it’s for. To roll back Russia’s influence and borders as far as possible because they refuse to be a ‘good little pet’ of the Anglo-American corporate/military cabal like most countries.
Iran is another one of these defiant countries. A civilisation, much older than ours, might I add.
In the elections themselves, much of the allegations of election fraud have been just that: unsubstantiated accusations. No one has yet been able to provide a solid shred of evidence of wide scale fraud that would have garnered eleven million votes for one candidate over his opponent.
More than thirty pre-election polls were conducted in Iran since President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his main opponent, former Prime Minister Mir Hossein Mousavi, announced their candidacies in early March 2009. The polls varied widely between the two opponents, but if one were to average their results, Ahmadinejad would still come out on top. However, some of the organizations sponsoring these polls, such as Iranian Labor News Agency and Tabnak, admit openly that they have been allies of Mousavi, the opposition, or the so-called reform movement. Their numbers were clearly tilted towards Mousavi and gave him an unrealistic advantage of over 30 per cent in some polls. If such biased polls were excluded, Ahmadinejad’s average over Mousavi would widen to about 21 points.
On the other hand, there was only one poll carried out by a Western news organisation. It was jointly commissioned by the BBC and ABC News, and conducted by an independent entity called the Center for Public Opinion (CPO) of the New America Foundation. The CPO has a reputation of conducting accurate opinion polls, not only in Iran, but across the Muslim world since 2005. The poll, conducted a few weeks before the elections, predicted an 89 percent turnout rate. Further, it showed that Ahmadinejad had a nationwide advantage of two to one over Mousavi. And this is from the same agencies (BBC/ABC) who are AGAINST Ahmedinejad! The same news agencies who showed footage of a PRO-Ahmedinejad rally attended by handreds of thousands of people, and called it a pro-MOUSAVI rally!
How did this survey compare to the actual results? And what are the possibilities of wide scale election fraud?
According to official results, there were 46.2 million registered voters in Iran. The turnout was massive, as predicted by the CPO. Almost 39.2 million Iranians participated in the elections for a turn out rate of 85 percent, in which about 38.8 million ballots were deemed valid (about 400,000 ballots were left blank). Officially, President Ahmadinejad received 24.5 million votes to Mousavi’s 13.2 million votes, or 62.6 per cent to 33.8 per cent of the total votes, respectively. In fact, this result mirrored the 2005 elections when Ahmadinejad received 61.7 per cent to former President Hashemi Rafsanjani’s 35.9 per cent in the runoff elections. Two other minor candidates, Mehdi Karroubi and Mohsen Rezaee, received the rest of the votes in this election.
There is not yet ONE single piece of evidence to suggest these elections were fraudulent. Not one.
And now to the U.S/West’s participation in Iran……
On May 23, 2007, Brian Ross and Richard Esposito reported on ABC News: “The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilise the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell ABC News.”
On May 27, 2007, the London Telegraph independently reported: “Mr. Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilize, and eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs.”
A few days previously, the Telegraph reported on May 16, 2007, that Bush administration neocon warmonger John Bolton told the Telegraph that a US military attack on Iran would “be a ‘last option’ after economic sanctions and attempts to foment a popular revolution had failed.”
And now we have a convinient colour-coded ‘revolution’ taking place with banners and signs in English for, yes, the benefit of the Western world so when an attack on Iran is imminent, Average Joe thinks “Poor Iranians said they wanted Ahmedinejad out”, yes, they literally said ‘Ahmedinejad out’ in signs in English, just for you.
The protests in Tehran no doubt have many sincere participants. Youngsters wanting Western ways of life, anti-Ahmedinejad people etc. But a few thousand (if hat) of these opponents does NOT represent the majority vote, OR a city (Tehran) of over 13 million people!
It is all propaganda, and everyone is swallowing it right up!
To sum up, the West IS meddling in Iran again…..and it is not doing it out of the goodness of it’s heart.
Well (from the BBC), the results came out – almost instantaneously – in blocks of millions of votes, in percentages, rather than being announced province-by-province as in past elections.
And as the blocks of votes came in, the percentages for each candidate changed very, very little. That suggested that Mr Ahmadinejad did equally well in rural and urban areas.
Conversely, it suggested that the other three losing candidates did equally badly in their home regions and provinces.
This overturns all precedents in Iranian politics and there has been no explanation, despite repeated questions, from the authorities.
It indeed sounds extremely suspicious.
(source, report from St Andrews University, Iranian Studies Dept)
“Working from the province by province breakdowns of the 2009 and 2005 results, released by the Iranian Ministry of Interior on the Farsi pages of their website shortly after the election, and from the 2006 census as published by the official Statistical Centre of Iran, the following observations about the official data and the debates surrounding it can be made.
· In two conservative provinces, Mazandaran and Yazd, a turnout of
more than 100% was recorded.
· If Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s victory was primarily caused by the
increase in voter turnout, one would expect the data to show that the
provinces with the greatest increase in voter turnout would also show the greatest ‘swing’ in support towards Ahmadinejad. This is not the case.
· In a third of all provinces, the official results would require that
Ahmadinejad took not only all former conservative voters, all former
centrist voters, and all new voters, but also up to 44% of former
reformist voters, despite a decade of conflict between these two
In 2005, as in 2001 and 1997, conservative candidates, and
Ahmadinejad in particular, were markedly unpopular in rural areas.
That the countryside always votes conservative is a myth. The claim
that this year Ahmadinejad swept the board in more rural provinces
flies in the face of these trends.”
By the way, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that, because of some colour used, the CIA was involved. It;s simply an important demarcation. You have no real evidence of CIA involvement – just speculation.
“By the way, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that, because of some colour used, the CIA was involved. It;s simply an important demarcation. You have no real evidence of CIA involvement – just speculation”
It isn’t just the ‘colour’ and it isn’t just speculation though Adrian, you’ve ignored my sources and have instead conccentrated on something which can be seen by some as ‘tivial’; but as I previously said -
In May 2007, the London Telegraph and others revealed that President George W. Bush had “Given the CIA approval to launch covert ‘black’ operations to achieve regime change in Iran”.
On May 23, 2007, Brian Ross and Richard Esposito reported on ABC News: “The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert ‘black’ operation to destabilise the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell ABC News.”
This has now been backed-up by former Pakistani Army General Mirza Aslam Beig; who last week claimed that the Agency had distributed over 400 million dollars inside Iran to evoke a revolution. Beig cited documents that prove “the CIA spent 400 million dollars inside Iran to prop up a colorful-hollow revolution following the election.”
It’s not just the striking and obvious similarities with the US-sponsored ‘revolutions’ in Georgia and the Ukraine, it’s actually been reported and documented that the CIA has been actively supporting ‘regime change’ in Iran for nearly 2 years.
And now we just ‘happen’ to have the same thing occuring in Iran as has happened already in Georgia and the Ukraine. Do you not think it’s even slightly weird? Signs and banners in English? Colour-coded? Neda’s face being plastered everywhere even though nobody even knows who shot the poor woman? These are similarities on the face of it which we can actually see. But I’ve already shown factual, reported information working BEHIND the things we can actually see.
Do you not think all of these reported facts (CIA funded, ABC, London Times, General Mirza Aslam Beig etc) and this media-bias is not strong enough to pass as evidence? Given the fact that we now know for sure that the U.S has been actively sponsoring anti-government/pro-U.S efforts in Iran?
I don’t know what more proof I can give you, I have tons of other quotes from top officials world-wide, news agencies etc. But I’m thinking it would take an actual public admission from the CIA before you believe it….which obviously I can’t give you.
Afterall, only this year did the U.S admit to Operation Ajax (which MI6 also funded) in Iran, where they installed the tyrant Shah…..they finally admitted to this 62 years later.
The protest movement and the call for secularism has been goign way longer than the last 2 years. People do not have a choice – especially after the last election when dozens of MPs were thrown out, and candidates rejected by the Guardian Council.
How do you know the ‘revolutions’ in Ukraine were US sponsored, rather than an attempt by Ukranians to move towards the EU, and break away from Moscow? The fact that people look to the west, wherever tyrrany and theocracy run amok, is no surprise. It just confirms what we all know, that the need for liberty is the same in Tehran as it is in Kiyev and San Francisco.
The CIA’s nefarious activities do not surprise me, but I find it hard to believe they would rig the elections massively in Ahmadinejad’s favour to provoke a revolution. The Iranian regime managed to do that without anyone’s help. What’s the actual evidence any American forces have been agitating the students in the last month across dozens of major cities in the country?
And who is more likely to have shor Neda, given the huge amount of video evidence of government militia indiscriminately shooting, murdering, assaulting and maiming protesters?
Just yesterday, Ahmadinejad was snubbed by a total of 105 MPs at his victory party. It’s not just angry students.
And what happened in 1953 is history – really, Iranians have more important things to worry about. (Indeed persia is an ancient civilisation, attacked in the last 30 years by theocratic crackpots). It’s time people got over that, stopped apologising and supported democracy and freedom wherever it tries to break through.
By the way – if Iran continues down the nuclear path, we will need to intervene.
Adrian- this will be quite long (again!) sorry mate, I have tried to condense the info as much as I can:
How do I know the revolutions in Ukraine were U.S-sponsored? I’ve already told you: “According to The Guardian, these financiers of the revolution include the U.S. State Department and USAID along with the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs, the International Republican Institute, the Bilderberg Group, the NGO Freedom House and George Soros’s Open Society Institute. The National Endowment for Democracy, a foundation supported by the U.S. government, has supported non-governmental democracy-building efforts in Ukraine since 1988.” George Soros remember? He’s one of the banking and Zionist elite in Washington. Georgia was funded by the same guy. He’s the 27th richest man alive. (And they’re just assets he declares!)
1953 – History which is ingrained into every Iranian’s mind from the day they are born. The Shah reigned for 25 years. So it wasn’t until 1978 that he was ousted, at the cost of thousands, and thousands of lives. If another nation constructed and funded a coup d’etat in your country, and installed a dictator where people just went ‘missing’ all the time; and all so these other countries could get their hands on your county’s oil…..how would you feel???
That was NOT the only instance where we (the U.S and Britain) have meddled in Iran.
We funded Saddam Hussein. Everyone knows that. That was the joke in the build up to war, ‘ we should know where the WMDs are, afterall we sold them to him!’ We funded Saddam to be a puppet to attack Iran. Which he did in the Iran-Iraq War :
In 1982 with Iranian success on the battlefield, the U.S. made its backing of Iraq more pronounced, supplying it with intelligence, economic aid, normalizing relations with the government (broken during the 1967 Six-Day War), and also supplying weapons. President Ronald Reagan decided that the United States “could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran”, and that the United States “would do whatever was necessary to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran. So we backed Iraq against Iran…why? because Iran had the temerity and arrogance to want to run itself in 1978!
Iran Air Flight 655, also known as IR655, was a civilian airliner shot down by US missiles on Sunday 3 July 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz, toward the end of the Iran-Iraq War. The aircraft, an Airbus A300B2 operated by Iran Air as IR655, was flying from Bandar Abbas, Iran, to Dubai, UAE, when it was destroyed by the U.S. Navy’s guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes, killing all 290 passengers and crew aboard, including 66 children,ranking it the seventh among the deadliest airliner fatalities. U.S. Admiral William J. Crowe also admitted on Nightline that the Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles. At the time, the captain of the Vincennes claimed that the Iranian plane did not identify itself and sent no response to warning signals from the Vincennes. Apart from Iran, other independent sources, for example the airport of Dubai, have confirmed that the plane did indeed identify itself to the American naval ship and also confirmed that “the civilian aircraft was ascending and therefore could not have posed a threat,” agreeing with Iranian officials. Brilliant. Can you imagine if it were the other way around and Iran had shot down a U.S commercial jet??!?!
So as you can see, it is not just ‘history’ it is recent history, and a long, projected campaign against Iran and her people because they had the balls to stand up and tell a big, big bully to get fucked.
The CIA did not rig the elections in anyone’s favour. They weren’t rigged. Admedinejad won with approximately the same percentage as last time. People in Iranian cities like him because he stands up for Iran. People in the country like him because he comes from a poor background.
The CIA has been very clever about this, as it usually is. Not only has it funded the Jundullah organisation responsible for recent bombings and violence in Iran, it has also used the internet and the ‘mass campaign of disinformation’ menitoned earlier. Twitter and other social networking websites have played a key role in the demonstrations. The U.S. State Department, which routinely demonises the Internet as a tool of extremists and terrorists when it is used to criticise U.S. foreign policy, took the unprecedented step last week of requesting that Twitter.com “delay planned maintenance work so that Iranian protesters can continue to use it to post images and reports of unrest,” according to a London Times report.
According to several different reports, the CIA and Mossad has been creating fake Twitter feeds and flooding Iranians with SMS text messages on their phones inspiring them to riot.
According to author Thierry Meyssan, Iranians received messages before the election votes had even been counted telling them that the Iranian Guardian Council had declared Mousavi to be the winner. When the official announcement of Ahmadinejad’s victory was later broadcast, the sentiment that fraud had took place was therefore amplified. How novel eh?
Meyssan also charges that the CIA and Mossad used Twitter feeds to put out fake reports of gun fights and deaths that were never even confirmed, rousing Iranians to riot in the belief that their fellow countrymen were being brutally suppressed by the authorities. (Which they are, now. But not on the scale these fake messages were saying. These fake messages were designed to create the very thing they reported as happening-oppression by riot police).
The main Twitter accounts used to send out hundreds of alerts during the protests were only recently created and had not send out any alerts whatsoever before the protests began. Ha! Fantastic, you couldn’t make it up could you!
Via a campaign of dis-information, Mousavi being ‘announced’ as the winner, SMS alerts, internet and Western lies, free flyers and banners, the use of Neda as a martyr, and some (a minority) of actual anti-Ahmadinejad protestors……I would say that it has been quite easy for the CIA.
It has already been confirmed and outlined by Joh Bolton and Kissenger and others (in my previous post) that if they can’t stimulate or inspire a revolution in Iran then there will be a war.
And you comment of “By the way – if Iran continues down the nuclear path, we will need to intervene” only confirm that this sustained decades long smear campaign against Iran has woked.
WE installed a dictator in Iran to give us their oil (BP ‘discovered’ the oil in Iran).
We financed an aggressive neighbour, Iraq, to invade Iran at the expense of 800,000 Iranian men and women.
We shot down an Iranian commercial airliner for no reason at all.
Now we’re trying to instigate ‘regime change’ in Iran with the promise of war if we don’t.
And you have the gall to say WE not only have to be worried about what THEY will do (?!), but that we need to intervene?! Mate, we’ve intervened in Iran the whole time. With no right. Israel has nukes, Britain does, Russia does, France does China does, the U.S does…………….what right have we got to say to Iran ‘you can’t have those’ whilst sitting on our own fat arsenal and threatening them with war constantly?
If I were Iran, I’d want nukes after the crap the West had heaped on me. Not to mention having Israel sitting next door.
I don’t want Iran to have nuclear weapons because Ahmadinejad seriously believes in wiping Israel off the map, and looks forward to the return of the 12th Imam. He’s a dangerous crackpot.
Well, the election results came out 2 hours after the polls closed – bear in mind the results are manually counted and there are 40 million of them, this is some kind of miracle!
As for Twitter – well, what’s the evidence actually, for the CIA and Mossad setting these accounts up? Can they be traced directly to the USa and Israel, rather than Iran? That would be easy to prove, surely. If the only means of communication left was Twitter, I would be compelled to set up a site. And wonderful that Twitter delayed their maintenance work.
The 2:1 poll in favour of Ahmadinejad was weeks before the campaign began, and major swings away from Ahmadinejad were reported by pollsters in the lead up to the election itself. There are questins about the Newsweek poll, given that a major proportion of those contacted reportedly refused to participate in the first place. Not surprising for a regime built on executing dissenters in their thousands.
It’s worth going along to the demonstration outside the Iranian Embassy – a determined bunch of people, fiercely proud of their country and heritage. From kids in Metallica T-shirts to women in Islamic head dress, equally keen to see democracy prevail and overthrow the regime imposed on them 3 decades ago.
(And democracy, the right to self determination are not western values. ‘We’ happened to have adopted them earlier by escaping the clutches of clerical control)