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Peter Tatchell calls for UK intervention after Gibraltar defeats equal age of consent

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  1. Brian Burton 18 Jun 2009, 8:38pm

    Gibraltar should be handed back to Spain where it belongs.
    Northen Irland should be handed back to Irland.
    The Malvinos should be handed back to Argentina.
    And screw opinions against from all three ‘Colonies.’

  2. I agree they should re-examine the equality of the age of consent and make it 18 for everyone.

    Sex is for adults not kids – 16 year olds should be worrying about their GCSEs not contraception.

  3. Brian burton clearly doesn’t believe in democracy!

  4. Bill Perdue 19 Jun 2009, 1:27am

    Of course Brian Burton believes in democracy and national independence.

    The colonists can do what the French colonists in Algeria did when it became independent. Go home.

  5. John Smith 19 Jun 2009, 8:16am

    There is no deposited population of ‘colonists’ in Gibraltar. The people of Gibraltar are home!

  6. This is not the place for nonsense rants like that from Mr Burton. Its sad that a bill to equalise the age of consent has been defeated when a free vote was given and the opposition chose to wreck it for political reasons. The principle is important rather than it actually affecting anyone as there are no 16 year kids protesting.

    However should HMG try and impose views on a democratic self Governing territory then there will, in the words of robocop, be trouble.

  7. Monkeychops 19 Jun 2009, 10:42am

    Brian – From a personal perspective, Spain can have Gibraltar if they want, it’s a shitehole. The worst of Spain and the UK on a pointless lump of limestone. They can keep the macaques as well.

    However…..don’t you think you should consider what Gibraltarians want? To be democratic, it would only seem fair and as until now they haven’t indicated joining Spain, we can leave them where they are. They’ll lose their preferential tax rates if they go to Spain. Mmmmm 50% tax to pay, how appetising!

  8. It should be the other way around, 16 for boys, and 18 for girls.

    Girls who have sex too young risk irreversible damage to their cervix, from the penis itself and the HPV virus. Cervical cancer amongst women is on the rise as girls are having sex too young.

    As my Nan always says: “You never see a nun with cervical cancer”. Old-fashioned as this sounds, maybe she’s right?

    The risk (of sex too young) is always greater for girls be it accidental pregnancy, cervical damage/cancer, or STIs that girls are more susceptible to (like chlamydia) leaving them infertile.

  9. Lezabella, girls are now given the HPV vaccination. I think better sex education would be more effective than creating an unequal age of consent between genders. It wouldn’t stop 16 year-old girls from having sex – it would only criminalise their boyfriends.

  10. Simon Murphy 19 Jun 2009, 3:02pm

    Gibraltar needs to be told that unless they equalse the age of consent immediately then the British government will hand control of the island over to Spain. Actually that would be better for everyone seeing as Spain has full legal equality for gay people (unlike the UK).

    Those dumb f*cks on Gibraltar never stop whining about how they are British but still want to preserve discriminatory laws. They canb f*ck right off.

  11. Brian Burton 19 Jun 2009, 4:56pm

    Simon Murphy,

    Well Slappa ma Thigh Simon. And off I skip, along the Yellow Brick Road With Dorothy! I agree with your Analysis Simon. Old Spunky Monkey is Incorrect (as usual) He ought to emigrate to the Ape Colony on the Rock! Ho! Ho!…………”Thats why they call you the Rock Of Gibralta. Thats Why they say your Heart is made of Stone. Oh! please let me lead you to the Alter? Rock Of Gibralta….” Sorry, I forgot the rest of the Lyrics!

  12. Monkeychops 19 Jun 2009, 5:30pm

    Actually no Brian, they want to stay, so they will. Why should anything be “given back” when it’s against the wishes of the inhabitants because of some romantic image you might have about “liberation”? Spain should therefore give Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco in that case……is that such a good idea? I’m sure Spaniards would just love to be part of that society…..

  13. Its rather disappointing to see the mindless rants in this thread and a failure to discuss the issue. Gibraltar is the home of the Gibraltarians and is neither Spain’s to claim nor Britain’s to give away.

    We are economically self-sufficient, have a better standard of living and less crime than the UK, plus we have a democratic Government and they will decide what happens here. Not you.

    If you don’t like it, stay away.

  14. Brian Burton 19 Jun 2009, 9:58pm

    Ah! gibnews.net

    You are and always will be a British Colony untill some enterprising British Government hands Gibraltar to it’s rightful owners.

  15. Irrespective of the ownership of Gib, I see Saint Tatchell sticks his interfering snout in foreign policy yet again where it’s none of his godamn business.

    Brian Burton: You may wish to take note that 90% of the commonwealth (ex-British Empire) has been handed back whenever that colonies majority requested it. It just so happens that some countries know when they are better off and prefer to stay under our protective wing, including Northern Ireland, the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar.

    Contrary to NuLabour opinion, that is what democracy is all about, you illiterate fuckwit.

  16. Brian Burton 20 Jun 2009, 7:24am

    Now, now RobN (You Silly Old Queen) Please, please tell us all what a ‘fuckwit’ is? It certainly is the expression of an illiterate person I can only presume!!?? Now dear on your bike with your giant pug-nose to the ground and skoot!

  17. Monkeychops 20 Jun 2009, 9:38am

    Jim – Better standard of living, in Gibraltar? I guess that would be how you define it. If disposable income is what you base it on, may be. But for me the environment there just isn’t pleasant. Densely populated, over-urbanised with alomst every square centimetre of available land (i.e. not the rock) having been or in the process of being developed (though the beach on the other side isn’t bad). Not to mention decaying 1960s architecture further up the rock and a strong whiff of piss invading your nostrils in the streets. That upper area of housing is no different to La Linea. And, let’s not forget, the endless stream of tourists, taxi runs across the rock’s attractions (caves, ape den etc). It’s like a theme park, how can you just lead a normal life when your town is like a show home? For me, it was interesting to go once, but only once. Apologies if you don’t share that view, but I can only base it on my experience there.

    Now, if Gibraltar were not joined to Spain, but were an island, would people be positive about living there if a plane was needed to go to the nearest town? After all, being next to Spain is the main advantage that Gibraltar has these days. It serves no purpose as a strategic mlitary point anymore, not with the EU. It’s not the closest point to Morocco either, so Algeciras or Tarifa (and Perijil) would me more useful for that…..

  18. As I said, if you don’t like Gibraltar then keep away, I live here and think its great. I have a nice view across the bay and people are friendly, unlike the UK.

    Since the Overseas Territories Act Britain does not have any ‘colonies’ and its because we ARE self governing that the UK cannot impose laws -or- for that matter UK nationals do not have right of residence.

    Yes, we enjoy visiting foreign countries, and its easier as no flights are required, but it remains a foreign country.

    Although there are snide ill informed comments about Gibraltar, I do not hear the paedos here pleading their case to bugger 16 year old boys, so suggest you bugger off instead.

  19. PS: Brian Burton, if you are uncertain what a fuckwit is, look in a mirror.

  20. Monkeychops 20 Jun 2009, 12:30pm

    Rank, who said anything about “buggering” 16 year old boys? People were just talking about equality between straights and gays. Maybe a 16 year old boy would like to “bugger” a 16 year old boy with the same legality as other UK passport holders. And a 16 year old boy doesn’t have to consent to being “buggered” with anyone of any age, legal or not. It just means he has the choice if he does – just as much as his straight counterparts. Is that so unreasonable?

    Are people really friendlier in Gibraltar? That’s a slightly odd comment – it’s about size more than anything. Smaller places tend to be more outwardly friendly simply because everyone knows each other – it’s familiarity. And there are a huge amount of places like that in the UK. And in every other country in the world. Your customer service isn’t bad, but it’s definitely not the friendliest.

    And if Gibraltar doesn’t want to have outside rules imposed on it, fine. But then you shouldn’t have the right to representation at EU level (which Brits have been trying to get for you). Or should just secede from the UK altogether.

  21. Brian Burton 20 Jun 2009, 12:32pm

    Watt, Watt, Watt is the Gib-Queen Trying to say?

  22. Mihangel apYrs 20 Jun 2009, 12:35pm

    what is it about this site that attracts homophobes, homophobic Xians, self-hating gays, gays who hate all other gays etc, etc?

    RobN is noted for his contempt for every other gay, or who has tried to make life better for others, or who has fought for our rights, or who just is gay and open about it. We’ve had Hank and an entire cohort of like minders, and now we have Jim Watt, squealing about how good Gib is despite its homophobia, calling people who like young guys paedophiles (16 isn’t too young to have sex), and not realising that Gib needs us more than we need it.

  23. Brian Burton 20 Jun 2009, 12:38pm

    P.S. Peter Tatchell, you are the greatest and your name will be etched on Time and History. (These other silly Queens will vanish without trace!!) And GOOOOOOOOOD-BYYYYYYY.

  24. Monkeychops 20 Jun 2009, 1:04pm

    Mihangel – This site just atracts people interested in the issues and a broad range of opinions that come with them. You seem to be of the attitude that if we don’t all want the same thing for ourselves as homosexuals, then we are all self-hating. Actually, the fanny fits from people on here being so defensive that you can only be a real gay and happy with it you are a bleeding-heart liberal with no common sense just shows the greater need for others to redress the balanc. Also, in Jim Watt’s defence, just because Gib has voted this way doesn’t mean Gib is a homophobic place where you will get abuse and derision. It’s still somewhere I wouldn’t want to live, but I don’t see how this vote makes it overwhelmingly anti-gay.

    Bri – Why don’t you try making a decent comment instead of just making a mockery of debate with hollow statements and personal bitching. You focus on everything that isn’t relevant.

  25. Mihangel: I think Monkeychops has it in a nutshell. The only similarity I have in common with other gay men is who I choose to sleep with. Period. So many gay people work on this bizarre assumption that to be gay, you have to be political, left wing presume that any criticism of homosexuality is considered a personal attack and automatically homophobic. I may not be flavour of the month on here, but I think I make an honest and objective argument wherever possible. If everyone on here was “right on, totally agree, yeah more of that” it would be a very boring website. Even the God-botherers such as Hank add a bit of flavour to the proceedings, if nothing else they demonstrate that real homophobia is still alive and well, and that the rest of us should keep our guard.

    As for this particular argument, I hear no great outcry about the matter. This is just that usual crap Tatchell dig up about inequality. So fucking what? The bottom line is if a couple of 16yo lads have a shag, nobody is going to be the least bit concerned. It’s just that old chestnut about “they have something we haven’t got”. Judging by the size of the province, there can’t be more than a handful of 16-18yo gay Gibraltarians anyway, so as usual, this is yet another storm in a teacup.

  26. Brian Burton 20 Jun 2009, 2:36pm


    I did’t realise you upset easily, anyway, I apologize, I bitch only because to loose ones temper is the domain of the un-inteligent. Trouble is ‘M’ I was brought up in the school of hard knocks, I was a coal-miners son for petes-sake. I can add to debate…see on ‘Sacked Footballer’ and ‘Blood refusal thread’ weather you agree with any of my comments there…we’ll see! By for now ‘M’

  27. Monkeychops 20 Jun 2009, 3:21pm

    Bri – I don’t get upset so easily but as I can’t eliminate you from these discussions, it’s better I just address what you are saying. Apology accepted (presuming it’s serious), but coming from a difficult background doesn’t legitimise being sp outwardly bitchy. I did too however I would never use teenage parents and council estates as a justification. It’s part of that victim mentality that I have stated I despise so much. I’ll read your comments on the other threads. It doesn’t matter if we don’t agree, just as long as our points are put across in a respectable manner.

  28. Mihangel apYrs 21 Jun 2009, 9:19am

    Monkeychops, RobN

    if it weren’t for the bleeding heart liberals, they’d still be burning us at the stake for homosexuaal acts. We didn’t get anything out of the goodness of the hearts of the reactionaries.

    I am well aware that gay people have views right across the political spectrum; what I do find difficult to understand is how contemptuous those on the right are of those who seek to ensure that our rights are concreted into the body-politic as opposed to being an optional ornament (as it were).

  29. MMihangel: Can you please talk in plain English for us not so bright types instead of Mandelspeak. WTF is Xians? Body Politic? etc?

  30. Mihangel apYrs 21 Jun 2009, 3:37pm

    assuming you’re not taking the piss:
    Xians = christians, it is a common abbreviation

    body-politic = “the nation, the state”

  31. Brian Burton 21 Jun 2009, 5:10pm

    RobN, Your as thick as two short planks sonny!

  32. As I said previously its a shame that some participants here are unable to debate the subject as well as they spew abuse, firstly of Gibraltar as a whole and then of others;

    Gibraltar is free of the sort of homophobia you may be familiar with in the UK. As RobN rightly says the number of 16-18 year olds affected is insignificant and what they get up to with their school friends will not scare anyone. I cannot recall a prosecution for consentual gay sex here in the last 30 years.

    What is sad is that given a free vote on the subject in Parliament here the opposition chose to vote against equalising the age of consent in order to try and embarrass the Government.

    Gobshites suggesting that Gibraltar should be ‘handed over to Spain’ which would result in mass murder, is a whole different thing to a couple of kids not getting laid.

    AND as for getting representation in the EU, we took the UK kicking and fighting to the ECHR to get that.

  33. As said previously its a shame that some participants here are unable to debate the subject as well as they spew abuse, firstly of Gibraltar as a whole and then of others;

    Gibraltar is free of the sort of homophobia you may be familiar with in the UK. As RobN rightly says the number of 16-18 year olds affected is insignificant and what they get up to with their school friends will not scare anyone. I cannot recall a prosecution for consentual gay sex here in the last 30 years.

    What is sad is that given a free vote on the subject in Parliament here the opposition chose to vote against equalising the age of consent in order to try and embarrass the Government.

    Gobshites suggesting that Gibraltar should be ‘handed over to Spain’ which would result in mass murder, is a whole different thing to a couple of kids not getting laid.

    AND as for getting representation in the EU, we took the UK kicking and fighting to the ECHR to get that.

  34. Brian Burton: Actually, I was asking on your behalf, as you had dropped your crayons again.

  35. Mihangel: Thank you for the translation. I have never seen “Xians” used anywhere – Although I am a complete atheist, I still respect other peoples faiths and I would ask you do likewise. I’m sure you would be the first to complain if you were referred to as “faggot” or “queer”.

  36. I want sex with monkeys!

  37. I want sex with monkeys.
    What is the age of consent with Gib apes?

  38. The opposition are fuckers.
    Oppression by the religious fanatics.

    Burn the pope.
    (no, seriously, nuke the Vatican, they hate gay
    unless its their priests raping boys….FACT)

    remove all connection between any state & religion, in any country as god hates gays. (Oh, chill everyone, thats tongue in cheek as THERE IS NO SUCH FRAKIN THING AS GOD so stop allowing people to use their made up icons to oppress you)

    All christian / jew / islam faith is an abomination, & gay / bi /les /trans flies in the face of :
    IN THE BEGINNING god [deliberate lower case] MADE MADE & WOMAN
    so that kinda fraks over any transsexual person. All gods are false.
    Bring down any and all governments EVERYWHERE that link church & state.
    Its there to partly control people with myths.
    & the outsiders [read gay, bi, trans] are there to be sacrificed.
    {blame the outsider}

    BTW, I’ve been there & its very open & friendly & no notable anti gay sentiment anywhere at all.
    But with this vote defeat, ALL THE CHURCHES THERE should be burnt down & the priests put to the sword.

    I hate all religion & all gods

    Faith is State sanctioned child rape.

  39. For issues of sex with monkeys consult Brian Burton.

  40. Peter Thatchel is cool
    I met him a few times.

    Get him on the case.

    Also, the crusifix.
    Naked man tortured to death…
    I mean you cannot reason with people who wear that sort of shit as jewellery.

    Kill the pope.
    Its ok god told me to type that ;-)

  41. You!
    I wanna take you to a gay bar,
    I wanna take you to a gay bar,
    I wanna take you to a gay bar, gay bar, gay bar

    Let’s start a war, start a nuclear war
    At the gay bar, gay bar, gay bar
    At the gay bar

    Now Tell me do ya?, but do ya have any money?
    I wanna spend all your money,
    at the gay bar, gay bar, gay bar


    I’ve got something to put in you,
    I’ve got something to put in you,
    I’ve got something to put in you,
    At the gay bar, gay bar, gay bar

    You’re a superstar, at the gay bar
    You’re a superstar, at the gay bar
    Yeah! you’re a superstar, yeah at the gay bar
    You’re a superstar, at the gay bar
    Super, super, superstar!

  42. Everyone who voted against the bill
    has fraked me up the ass, but they are in the closet.

    blackmail them.

  43. Mihangel apYrs 22 Jun 2009, 7:14am

    well RobN you’ve actually managed to surprise me:

    you advise mw to respect people of faith because I use the word “Xian” rather than spell it out “Christian”, and yet on this site in a couple of threads I’ve just browsed you’ve used “twat”, “arsewhipe” and other offensive terms to your opponents.

    Let us be clear – I don’t have much respoect for the faithful who want to use their faith as a guide to MY behaviour or nature, however I do try (and sometimes fail) not to be offensive to people here (apart from the obvious wreckers)..

  44. Mihangel: I didn’t say you couldn’t use insults, just don’t use ones specific to groups, that’s all. Also, please note, I said “faiths” not “religions” for a very specific point. Faith is a personal belief, religion is an organised church. Like I said, I have very little respect for the church, but faith can bring a lot of help and support to those that believe it, and I never kick a man when he’s down.

  45. Mihangel apYrs 22 Jun 2009, 10:38am

    I have little problem with people’s personal beliefs as long as they don’t affect the law, education, health or me.

    Unfortunately organised faith aka “religion” does try to do that. I have reached the stage where I will not tolerate people intolerant of me and mine, I’m too aware that our present rights aren’t as firmly entrenched as they ought to be!

  46. Amazing how the thread has changed! This is abut human rights equility and the age of consent! BTW Gay boys don’t make each other pregnant so therefore saving the burden on the tax payers for all the single mother benfits!

  47. Yes, X = greek for ‘Chi’. Constantine saw an X and a P (chi-ro; i.e. Christ) in the sky before his big battle outside Rome, in 312,. he took his victory, which led him to take over the roman empire, as a sign from god. unfortunately, we have been lumbered with his faith ever since.

  48. Brian Burton 22 Jun 2009, 6:26pm

    Pin back your lug holes O ye Dragons and ye Deeps….. Sin is a thing that writes itself across a persons face. It cannot be concealed. People talk sometimes of secret vices, there are no such things. If someone has a vice, it shows itself in the lines of his mouth, that curious glint in the eye, the moulding of his hands even.

  49. Setting all the bitching aside, the bill to equalise the age of consent was defeated in Parliament by eight votes to four.

    It was a free vote and it would seem that the elected representatives expressed the will of the people. Its a process called democracy.

  50. The will of the people? Actually, it’s a mockery of democracy when the will of the people is used to deny the rights of a minority.

  51. Adrian T: “The will of the people? Actually, it’s a mockery of democracy when the will of the people is used to deny the rights of a minority.”

    Ah! So what you are actually saying is, democracy is fine as long as the outcome is the way *YOU* want it to swing, otherwise it’s a “mockery”. Sounds like the NuLab we’ve all come to know and love.

  52. The Gay 16 year olds who want to have sex here are a VERY small minority and they should be doing their homework instead.

  53. Wishful thinking and a complete non sequitur, RobN. To repeat, it’s a mockery of democracy when the will of the people is used to deny the rights of a minority. A basic principle on human rights, and you can study article 29.2 of the UN eclaration of human rights, or JS Mill’s essay on Liberty. I make no statement on what I want at all.

    The size of the minority makes no difference. If one person is criminalised by this law it will be a gross injustice. In fact, I’d like to know why you are not campaigning for the straight age of consent to be increased to 18.

    What could be more democratic than letting all those with a claim to the rock determine the fate of this brave little English exclave. After all, the Gibraltarians are only a VERY small minority.

  54. AdrianT: As I stated earlier, this is seen by the likes of Tatchell & Co. as more a matter of equality than any actual problem. I quite agree about raising the straight age to 18, and would if I could, but equally, do you seriously think any teenagers really give a rat’s arse? Some are already parents, borderline alcoholics, and regular drug users, so it makes not one jot of difference.

    “To repeat, it’s a mockery of democracy when the will of the people is used to deny the rights of a minority.” – I take it fox-hunters are not considered a minority then?

  55. I am sure you are right about the fact that kids will not give a damn. But principles matter. You now have a law that makes a judgement about sexuality, that tells society discrimination is fine. It opens the possibility of young gay kids being blackmailed and criminalised.

    As for fox hunters, well, do they contravene the harm principle? Some might say, disembowelling and dismembering an animal alive might well do.

  56. The fact is that all the boys and girls will have sex underage if they want too. The only thing about Gay sex is you will probably get prosicuted for it but if you, at 15, make your 14 year old girlfriend pregnant she’ll probably get a flat(!)

  57. “The only thing about Gay sex is you will probably get prosicuted for it but if you, at 15, make your 14 year old girlfriend pregnant she’ll probably get a flat(!)”

    Yeah it must be rosy, sitting in a dingy council flat rasing a child when you’re still one yourself.

    Must be really fun at age 14 to be pregnant. Reeeaaaaally fun!!!

    It’s not, girls in school did it and their lives were over.

    These girls are ALWAYS the one left holding the baby, and if not the girl, then her mother- the grandma. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, too many times!

    This country if full of feckless fathers/young men getting young girls pregnant and then pissing off whilst she raises it.

    I mean how many boys, aged 13-18 do you see pushing THEIR babies around in prams???? Then contrast that with how many girls you see…..loads! When I see a teenage mum like that I instantly think ‘where is the Dad?’.

    Maybe if more people had that attitude and made it clear that a teenage father has just as much responsibility as a teenage mother; we wouldn’t have near as many teenage pregnancies and hence council flats going to these women as they would’t need it and would instead have actual support from the other person 50% responsible for makiing the baby,…..the father!

    But this does not happen, so most of the time the flats go to girls who need it.

  58. Mihangel apYrs 24 Jun 2009, 11:29am

    it isn’t that clear cut. Some girls want a baby but no guy hanging around. Some girls come from families of serial single mothers. Some girls do see popping out babies as a career.

    And some guys are feckless shits who shag and run.

    For men sex is a pastime, for women (I believe) it makes a commitment (OK a generalisation). That’s one reason gay men are seen to be promiscuous, gays don’t have to make the compromises or promises that a woman would ask for, but rather do it because it’s fun. This truly pisses off the straights who have to say that promiscuity is wrong.

  59. -Mihangel apYrs

    Yes I agree, there are opportunistic girls who see popping out sprogs as a career….flats, benefits etc.

    I was just annoyed because girls who I have worked with and went to school with are in the situation where they have recieved housing because they have no other option. They don’t have the money to buy it on their own. One girl in paricular, has 2 kids to a bloke who also has two kids to another girl, he got them both preganant at the same time-twice. He doesn’t work, doesn’t pay-nothing. It’s the girls and their mothers, the grandmas, who are picking up the pieces. Also, the only male role model in these poor kid’s lives are the girls’ fathers, the grandads. It’s so sad.

    I agree with your generalisations too (even though there are exceptions). But I just feel that if it were these men who HAD to, or were FORCED to, shoulder 50% of the responsibility via finance and care of the children; ther wouldn’t be half of the pregnancies there are now.

    It just annoys me that a lot of these girls are labelled as ‘slags’ etc when the males are left to carry on with their lives without a care in the world. I mean, they disn’t get pregnant on their own.

    Gay men are seen as promiscuous, but so what? Atleast they’re having fun :) Maybe a lot of straights who condemn this behaviour are a bit jealous!

  60. Mihangel apYrs 24 Jun 2009, 11:02pm

    I totally agree: putting aside gay sex, it is true that fecklessness isn’t sex-linked, it’s just that women have to carry and have the results of sex, if men had that hassle then I think society’s rules would be very different! The fact that a girl will become a mother twice without seeing commitment suggests that while the guy sees it as sex the girl still sees it as something else – and that is sad!

    I want to make it clear that I see nothing wrong with sex for fun; it needs to be done responsibly though and certainly not as a love token. Any results from it (including babies) are a joint responsibility

  61. Mihangel you are my hero! :)

    I agree with everything you’ve just said!

  62. Mihangel apYrs 25 Jun 2009, 2:48pm

    if I wasn’t CP’d I’d marry you XX

  63. Thankyou, and if I didn’t have a girlfriend I would accept ha ha :)

  64. Although some of the comments are revealing, the single mother, drugs alcohol workshy culture you accept in the UK has largely been avoided in Gibraltar.

    And there is no entitlement to public housing, nor can people apply for it until they are 18 and married. Maybe thats discrimination too but it seems to work out well for everyone.

    Perhaps thats why we do not like ‘experts’ from other countries telling us how to run things.

  65. Monkeychops 26 Jun 2009, 9:25am

    It’s not another country though is it? You’re part of our little kingdom. Secede then, if you want home rule. All 5 of you….

  66. Mihangel apYrs 26 Jun 2009, 9:52am

    Jim Watt
    the difference between a population of 60million and less than 30,000 will produce noticeable differences in society – your entire state is smaller than most of our large towns!

    With a population that small, all the parochial, and judgementalism of small-town mentality can be applied to “deliquents”, but along with personalised care and attention that large communities can’t offer. It’s also that case that large communities themselves can create these problems.

    Your point about “experts from other countries” is appropriate only if you accept that no-one has a right to comment on the internal affairs of other countries AND you are willing to cede from the Crown and the EU. This may of course impact on your principal industries but what the heck

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