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Ann Widdecombe to stand as Commons Speaker

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  1. she might not be gay friendly but it nmight be fun to watch her sorting out the yah boo twits in the House of Commons (with empahsis on common!)

  2. Simon Murphy 12 Jun 2009, 3:44pm

    I’m surprised she is anti-gay – I always assumed she was a closeted lesbian.

    Actually she mayv be a closeted lesbian. Closet cases are usually very anti-gay

  3. I bet the house must be quaking in their boots.

  4. Robert, ex-pat Brit 12 Jun 2009, 4:04pm

    Chalk one up to another bigot. She’s NO friend of the gay community, its all window dressing.

  5. If she gets in, why not just hand the House of Commons over to the BNP…very little difference in their attitudes towards GLBT persons as far as I can tell.

  6. Monkeychops 12 Jun 2009, 4:21pm

    Anon – PLEASE, enough with the drama. There is a massive difference between Tories and BNP, anyone can see that. Anne is obviously not the first choice of many, but on the other hand I find the fact that she is so up front with her opinions is mildly refreshing. You know where you stand. Whether she should be speaker or not, I don’t know. On the other hand, it’s a pretty apolitical role, I doubt she’d do much harm. Anyway, Labour may have delieverd on gay rights, but they have screwed up just as much as the Tories did back in the 90s overall.

  7. She Catholicised herself late in life… and so, for that matter did Golden Dell Boy, Tone-ee.

    That’s enough for me.
    It’s madness.
    She’s not thinking.
    As someone else, up there in an earlier comment said, the Speaker-hood is non-political.
    Let us hope so.
    You cannot BECOME a Catholic; you are or you are not; it is almost a ‘genes’ thing.
    A Catholic cannot debate his religion; he IS his religion.
    Blair is now bizzy advising Benedict on how to run the Church; he says that the pope needs to ‘lighten up’ on homosexuality.
    That’s a larff.
    It’s taking Benny all his time to admit to what he sees in the mirror every morning; he’ll never do it, never accept himself, much less condone anybody else accepting himself and getting on with this, short, life.
    I suspect Widdy might become a good card-carrying, line-toeing party member and not, like Blair, try to open any Vatican windows; if she does then gawd help us lot.
    These people come to the Church from their personal – and lifelong – legacy of debate.
    There is no debate and no dissent in the RCC.. as in NONE.

    I wish one of them had arksed me!
    They could -either one – have had my RC-ness for nowt, complete with baptism cert.
    I’d even have trained ‘em in the Tridentine Latin Mass and the Divine Office; told them what colours go on what days; and what shoes go with what.
    I have been trying to ditch it all for the last 50 years..and you know what?
    It cannot be done..!
    Arkse Jay-Pea when he gets up/comes in from tending his city’s toolips out in Alaska/Nebraska/Apaloosa or wherever it is..!
    I bet he’ll tell the same story.
    You cannot get out of the mindset of being RC and you cannot, by the same token, get ‘into’ it.
    These people who ‘get’ Catholicism late on are usually more Catholic than the pope.
    If that is the case and there is any kind of power in this Speaker’s job then, all joking and silly spellings aside, it will be fundamentalism to the fore in the highest forum in the land and one retrograde step.
    ALL religion should be left in their (politicians’) homes, either their first or their second home, it matters not; we the tax-payer are paying through the nose for both, it appears.
    Well so be it but religion should not come into it; we in Britain are not an annexe of Vatican City.
    It will come into it, perforce, with any of these fundies.

    K

  8. Oh please let her be speaker….please, please, please….it will be so funny! I would actually watch BBC parliament to see that.

    I remember how she was on Have I Got News for you – classic shardenfreude….she’s embarrasingly victorian in her social expectations and interactions……

    dublyadublyadublyadotyoutube.com/watch?v=mi_sl7EDnho&feature=PlayList&p=7DFCF5D8CFD8C638&index=2

    Please, please, please elect her MPs!!

  9. Richard, presh…!

    Fatso Goebbels was ‘funny’…
    …and Awky Duck Goering was a ‘hoot’..!

    But I do agree with you completely; it’d be a scream as long as no-one takes her as seriously as they took Fatso and Awky.
    K
    K

  10. Well I have to hand it to you Richard..!

    Thanks for that, yours at #8 for YOUTUBE.

    HIGHLY RECOMMENDED..! VERY FUNNY..! THE GOLDEN, BAYWATCH WIG ALONE IS WORTH THE 8 MINUTES LONG..!

    I don’t think I have any worries.
    It’d be a scream as you remarked, her all in the Speaker’s flummery AND trying to look like lamb; that has to be a wig; dreadful!
    What a hoot!
    Mind you…just cast your eye through the old Nazi footage of camp old Hermann Fatso in his white tux and his Chrimbo decs. plastered all over his chest.
    It all went to his head, too.
    We’ll see.
    It’ll all be all right as long as we keep taking the piss.

    Long live deflation!

    K

  11. Ann Widdecombe is retiring at the next election so it would be a job for 9 months then an automatic place in the house of Lords.

    t better job for Widdecombe is as the replacement for Nora Batty in last of the summer wine.

  12. Brian Burton 12 Jun 2009, 7:34pm

    Listen, all you Bellyaching Popijays. Ann Is an ‘In your face’ person and she would not tolerate any Impropiety from the Polititions who’s ‘Gravy Train’ has been de-railed.

  13. Sorry if it sounds terrible, but I don’t think the Commons will replace a catholic speaker with another catholic. Widdecombe says she has support on both sides of the House but I doubt that also.

    Unfortunately, Widdecombe will end up in the Lords sooner of later, speaker or not speaker, to take up were the late Baroness Young (may she rot) left off.

    All the best.

  14. She would do an excellent job as Speaker. She would definitely be able to restore order, which the incumbant failed to do. I hope she gets the job and hope she stays on after the election frankly. The fact she thinks I am bound for hell is an irrelevance.

  15. “The fact she thinks I am bound for hell is an irrelevance.” TomPaine

    So when she uses her position to slow down the equality bill, so it will not be voted on by this parliament but a Tory dominated one after the general election.

    It will not effect you will it? I would not be confident of a Tory government being too interest in passing it myself.

  16. “Ann Widdecombe says she is a virgin for religious reasons… yeah, the reason that god made her incredibly ugly”

    gotta love Frankie Boyle =)

  17. Monkeychops (6):

    “Anon – PLEASE, enough with the drama.”

    What’s the matter, don’t you like drama? You’re so good at it yourself, playing a role, I mean.

    Pumpkin Pie has flushed you out on the thread about the British Embassador to Poland defending gay rights.

    You are an ex-gay fundamentalist fanatic attempting to infiltrate our website and turn us against each other. You are a student of Hank’s, possibly Hank himself with a new slant, and you have been leaving a trail of homophobic and subtle remarks behind you ever since you parachuted onto our website.

    Please stick around and we’ll mop the floor with you in the morning. You might want to stretch a little to relieve the tension. What tension? You’ll see.

  18. This wretched woman was on the radio a few days and spoke out she doesn’t believe in sex outside marriage.

    Reading the above comments looks like we have more vapid gays going for personality over policy. No religious fundamentalists in the commons thanks!!!!

  19. Disagree with her politics, but think she’d make a formidable speaker. Her or Frank Field would be good.

  20. Sister Mary Clarence 13 Jun 2009, 2:45pm

    Anne Widdecombe’s Victorian views on homosexuality are probably little different to he views on a wide range of other topics – sex outside marriage being one of them.

    There is cross party support for a much cleaner image in parliament, so the cunning old crone has probably chosen her moment well. I would image most people struggling to imagine her living the high life at the expense of taxpayers. Its more likely that rather than a second home in town, when in London, she lives under a bridge and jumps out at travellers. As the comments here indicate, despite any disagreement with the political views, almost everyone seems to think she will be a stingy old tight-arse who will sought out some of the lavish spending by MPs.

    Poor old Anne does not fit in with the new Tory party image and the process of marginalising any such MPs is well under way. She is clearly aware of this and my guess would be that the crafty old cow is manoeuvring herself into a position she cannot easily be ejected from.

  21. Okay, I have been flippant about her but now I am going to be serious – in order to address some of the points above.

    Yes she is amazingly out of touch with post-modern living. Yes, she annoying and at some times hysterical. However, I have over the years seen a few programmes (documentaries included, notably one with her trying persaude prostitutes out of their ‘lifestyle’) with her.

    Having mocked her – can I put forward the thesis that I think she would actually be quite a good speaker of the house of commons. This rests on the fact that although she holds some wacky beliefs (in particular ethics about sexual diversity, despite all the evidence to the contrary) she actually has integrity and is honest, in my opinion. She is also so anal that she probably knows all of the procedural rules of the house already and in this (black and white way) she is clever enough to apply them in a way which may affect the floor away from behaving worse than a primary school play-ground.

    She is a fundie, but she’s also one of the very few real Christians – that judge matters of social policy in her job – but not the people she meets. I don’t agree with her views, but she supports the right for me to hold mine – and the right to live my lifestyle. I would have no doubt that, should I meet her (‘God’ forbid) she would treat me with respect).

    I also think her integrity would allow her to do her job (in the necessary and expected….) bi-partisan role that speaker is. Therefore I would not expect her to favour legislative time which works to the whip of the tories.

    I never in my life thought I would write a piece that could be entitled: ‘In defence of Ann Widdecombe’. But you know there’s a part of me that wants to defend her right to free speech – but also find the positive in her.

    There we are – that said – I am therefore clearly insane and wish to be carted off for the protection of my own self, and that of the community.

    PS – Seriousness aside, I still think it would be bloody funny as well!

  22. Keith (7):

    Better late than never. I agree with your every word about catholicism.

    This infant baptism routine was not taught by jesus, it’s basically a question of financial planing. Who cares about the person: the choitch is what counts so go ahead and keep your wives pregnant till they drop, then get another wife and make more babies, more little catliks, more, more, more or else…can you smell sulfur burning???

    We don’t make babies so of what use are we to the choitch? Except being priests and popes and things like that.

    But the choitch has it in the books that the choitch is kind and compassionate towards us. All together now, let’s laugh ’till we cry, cry, cry. C’mon Roy Orbison, sing us a song about cry-y-y-y-y-y-i-i-i-n-n-n-n-g.

    Oh, I do carry on.

  23. Keith SIMPSON 13 Jun 2009, 10:59pm

    #22

    Jay Pea..!

    We’d better watch it, toi et moi.
    We’ll be having that nice RobN shouting at us again for hogging the limelight, with our ‘Ramble-on-athon 2009′ ..as he so suck-sinkly put it, in an earlier article a while back.

    Er….Talking of Noo Kafflix.

    I see that Kylie Mynogue is ‘turning’
    They are all at it..!
    Anyone got the daft mare’s number?

    I could let her know that my RC indoctrination is up for grabs; nice bap.cert.; nice foist comm. cert; nice confirm. cert; Rosary beads, Roman Missal, (Latin) Roman Breviary, (Latin), small bottle of Lourdes water – complete with green bits in, 55 years old…!

    Yep, all the gubbins..bit of Tippex on the certs…no-one’d know.

    AND I’ll even throw in Latin lessons and Gregorian Chant instruction, ‘owzzat, Kylie..?
    What do they all see in it, in the 21st century, these ‘turners?
    It just has to be the ‘camparari’ of it all, in this drab world…

    Ooops..I have digressed again; I’m for it now…!!
    3 Glorias and a kick up the backside.

    K

  24. Awe – a catholic. The real believers, who condemn gay people are just an example of how religion violates virtually every reason for religion.

    Perhaps bennie boy should go read something about “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

    Of course that isn’t going to happen. Bennieboy grew up in Nazi Germany. Think about how Mr. Dobson – the head of the USA Focus on the Family (whose hatred of gays is legenday) said “give me a child by age 7 and I’ll make him a good christian for life”.

    Well, hitler had bennie boy at age 7 in 1935. No wonder we have such a wicked homophobe sitting in Rome.
    \
    The only thing that will solve the problem of the catholic church is to end its power, and expose it for the hatred it so cleverly calls love, but which is really nothing but using hatred to empower the haters. Exactly what hitler did.

    BTW, the single word to describe what happens is called BRAINWASHING.

    But lots of Catholics are leaving the church for more progressive institutions. Everyones job is to speed up the process.

  25. Of course the church wants more and more babies, and opposes effective birth control. More minds to control, more power.

    Someone elses blog reminded me that another nefarious character in history told his women to have more and more children. Aryan children – more soldiers for the Wehrmacht. BTW, that guy was a Catholic, and grew up in very catholic Austria.

  26. Sister Mary Clarence →→ Your right “the cunning old crone” is simply trying to get herself seconded as Speaker so she can add an additional £40,000.00 a year pension on top of her £50,000.00 pension.

    Greedy fat cow that she is.

    All the best.

  27. Sister Mary Clarence 14 Jun 2009, 10:59am

    Dave, I think its more about power and influence than money. She’s many things but not daft. The axe is swinging and if she can get herself in the speaker position she has a safe bolt-hole, if she doesn’t she’s doomed.

  28. Brian Burton 14 Jun 2009, 1:46pm

    Sister Mary Clarence,
    You are talking out of your silly hat my girl. Ann Widdecombe ‘DOOMED??. Ann is a TV Star and has the ability to turn her hand to anything on offer. You are just a bellyaching nere-do-well and would do better to keep very quiet!

  29. Keith (22)

    Ahoy, me laddie! You forgot to mention that the Holy Pirate has great big chunks of the real cross for sale, and Noah’s ark, and all those incorruptible bodies on his side. Stimatized and all that. Ouch.

    Hello Twilight Zone! $20 please, and here’s a little vigil candle. Blessed? No, we can’t sell blessed objects. But it you want it blessed, benny will bless it. A special price for you because you don’t have a job: $50 will do this time, but next time, I’ll have to charge you the regular price, what with the price of brandy going up and all, not to mention my subscriptions to triple X homosexual websites.

    Man’s gotta have an outlet, question of mental health, don’t you know. But that don’t mean you can do it. If you do it, it’s mo-o-o-ortal sin, no two ways about it. You keep your hands above the blankets, you hear. Or make babies, that’s it.

    I just do it to make sure it doesn’t get out of hand, that’s all. Out of hand? Hand, yeh, well the hand does a good enough job when there’s nobody wants ya, or when ya can’t trust a baptized katlik to keep his friggin mouth shut. Imagine what the holy womin will say if they knew. I was just giving the noodle a shake, ma’am, don’t go getting any crazy ideas. I is a saintly man, here kiss my hand and don’t leave no lipstick mark.

    Catlick womin have it tough, though. all they can do is lie back and take it in. No foreplay, Gasp. No orgasmic breathing, Mary didn’t do that. None of that oral stuff, says so in the book. Condoms? Scandalous, murderous things, unnatural, really, gruesome stuff. Heathen practices will kill off humanity, again.

    Then who will pay for my fabulous outfits, I mean my ‘liturgical vestments’ in all of the colors of the…somewhere over the rainbo-o-o-o-o-w.

    That’s it for my Sunday sermon. Drop your collection envelop in the box on your way out, and your ‘suggestions’ in the trash can. Y’all ahve a week now. Smile!

    I do carry on. Ann Widdecombe. nobody can say I can’t talk to the issue. Oh A-a-a-a-n-n-n-n-n, oh A-a-a-a-a-n-n-n-n-n. Love those pearl earings. Fabulous.

  30. Siter Mary Clarence →→→ As a former minister Widdecombe will be given the option of elevation to the peerage when she step down from the Commons.

    But don’t worry she will not be elected Speaker; two catholic Speakers in a row I think not. I bet the cunning old cow is regreting becoming a catholic now.

    All the best.

  31. Sister Mary Clarence 14 Jun 2009, 11:33pm

    “Ann is a TV Star and has the ability to turn her hand to anything on offer.”

    I was talking about her career in politic, Brian, you f*cking numptie.

    Dave, you might be right, but we’ve yet to see how Cameron treats those that have fallen out of favour by not embracing the New Tory ethos.

  32. Brian Burton 15 Jun 2009, 6:43am

    Thank you Sister f-ing numptie yourself, you ignorant scuzz-ball!

  33. Brian is a wonderful human being, and he possesses a tremendous insight and a healthy mentality. He is not only a gentleman, he is kind and welcoming. Like the rest of us, he enjoys posting on PinkNews.

    Sister Mary Clarence possesses a great deal of erudition and a facility with the English language. She has enlightened us on more than one occassion.

    This friendly banter is not to be taken too seriously, right?

    Personally, I would be interested to know what persuades a woman like Ann Widdecombe to become a Roman Catholic in the first place.

    But I digress.

  34. Sister Mary Clarence 15 Jun 2009, 10:04am

    Best place for an ugly girl to find a nice man, JP, church.

  35. Monkeychops 15 Jun 2009, 12:32pm

    “Best place for an ugly girl to find a nice man, JP, church”

    Sister MC – Fine example of how hypocritically narrow-minded you are, despite condemning others left, right and centre for their views. You have huffed and puffed at so many things, but here you are being so prejudiced. Showing bigotted opinions on the church and insulting Ann Widdecombe’s looks. Wasn’t it you just a minute who said the family of Francis Morley might be upset that I made light of his murder? Yet don’t you think that Ms Widdecombe might be upset at you calling her ugly? Isn’t that hurtful? Oh, and wait, don’t we get hurt a lot by people calling us names? Please, stop claiming you are so morally better than others on here when you are making such snyde and intolerant remarks. What are you hoping to achieve? Whatever your view of Ann Widdecombe, it’s her political role that’s important, not how she looks or where she goes to pray. And before you say it, Gordon Brown has only ever voted on once in favour of gay rights, the rest he abstained from, which shows that people can be Christian and separate it from their work. Tony Blair did and he’s a Catholic now, remember?

  36. “I would be interested to know what persuades a woman like Ann Widdecombe to become a Roman Catholic in the first place.”

    Because she is a right-wing athoritarian. Birds of a feather flock together.

    All the best.

  37. Simon Murphy 15 Jun 2009, 1:12pm

    #7: Keith: “You cannot BECOME a Catholic; you are or you are not; it is almost a ‘genes’ thing.
    A Catholic cannot debate his religion; he IS his religion.”

    That is a load of old cock.

    Religious belief is a choice. To claim that it is a ‘genes’ thing is in effect to excuse its hateful, evil elements

  38. Brian Burton 15 Jun 2009, 3:02pm

    GOD BLESS YOU ALL O CHILDREN OF PINK AND I MEAN THAT SINCERELY FOLKS!!! Thank you Simon Murphy, at least you do not deny me choice! I can tell you are a sweetie at heart! and I mean that sincerely too.

  39. Brian Burton 15 Jun 2009, 3:05pm

    If I have offended anyone on this thread, my deepest apologies>

  40. Monkeychops 15 Jun 2009, 4:20pm

    Can’t believe someone thought Catholicism was genetic. Surely that would mean that if you were born to Catholic parents, orphaned and adopted by an atheist couple, you would still magically materialise into a Catholic. The mind boggles…

  41. Sister Mary Clarence 15 Jun 2009, 5:25pm

    “Yet don’t you think that Ms Widdecombe might be upset at you calling her ugly? ”

    Monkey, I think the difference here would be dear old Anne is alive and kicking and Francis Morley was murdered under horrific circumstances.

    “Gordon Brown has only ever voted on once in favour of gay rights, the rest he abstained from, which shows that people can be Christian and separate it from their work. Tony Blair did and he’s a Catholic now, remember?”

    I don’t really follow that last bit, are you saying that Labour/churchie people are good people or not? You need to be clearer when you’re having a go mate. Loses its impact if no one understands hat the f*ck you’re on about

  42. Monkeychops 15 Jun 2009, 5:47pm

    Sister MC – Apologies for the lack of clarity, I must have left out half the sentence. Here goes again:

    Gordon Brown has only ever voted once in favour of gay rights, but the rest he abstained from. It shows he may not be as gay-friendly in private as he makes out in public, however it shows that politicians can separate their views from the wider agenda of their party. Tony Blair di and now he’s a catholic, right?

    There. Done.

    Re Ann – all the worse, she is still alive to hear your comments. Justifying your superficial comment son her appearance by differntiating it from comments on a dead man don’t hold up. Slagging people off for their appearance isn’t nice, regardless of who they are.

  43. Keith SIMPSON 15 Jun 2009, 10:30pm

    # 37 from SIMON MURPHY
    #7: Keith: “You cannot BECOME a Catholic; you are or you are not; it is almost a ‘genes’ thing.
    A Catholic cannot debate his religion; he IS his religion.”
    That is a load of old cock.
    Religious belief is a choice. To claim that it is a ‘genes’ thing is in effect to excuse its hateful, evil elements
    Comment by Simon Murphy — June 15, 2009 @ 13:12

    Simon, Awww! Come on, man! Gimme a break.
    Of course catholicism isn’t IN the bloomin’ genes!
    I said ‘almost a genes thing’..!
    Come on!
    You know what I mean..!
    And excuse me, religious belief may well be a choice but not when you are still in your cradle.
    Ms. Widdecombe’s is a choice.
    What choice did/do I and millions of ‘born Catholics’ have?
    Catholicism is ‘in’ you from day one; as I said “almost” a genes thing.
    What I am getting at is, that no matter how hard you try, you cannot get away from the ‘walk, in molasses’ that being a Catholic is, IF you were born and bred a Catholic.
    I may very well be explaining myself with absolutely dismal results but another lapsed Catholic will know exactly what I mean and will be able to explain it far better than I, no doubt.!
    The other side of that story is that the likes of Ms. Widdecombe/Blair/Minogue, would, because they HAVE actually chosen Catholicism, be quite able to, and be effective in leaving, were they to ‘choose’ to walk away from it, much as they ‘chose’ to walk into it… without the trauma that such apostasy causes catholics of the ‘born and bred’ variety..
    They came into it more or less as a rational choice and that same rational choice will, if they tire of Catholicism, counter any remorse that they might feel in abandoning what once seemed like a ‘good idea at the time’
    I can quite see Blair arguing with the Pope on homosexuality and being quietly led up a dark alley in the Vatican somewhere and summarily shot.
    (Figuratively speaking of course! Don’t go taking this literally, like you took the ‘genes thing’ literally…!)
    In other words, he will be told that the “Holy Father has spoken”.
    End of..!
    He can then very easily just get up and leave his new faith and his reasoning will carry him through it, the same reasoning that took him into it, will get him out of it and with comfort and without remorse; the reasoning will see to that.
    Not so the once devout catholic who starts asking questions and ultimately decides to get up and leave it all.
    Don’t forget that they get you as a child, a baby.
    That done, they have you for life….
    It escapes me the name of the sage who said…” Give me the child and I’ll give you the man..! ”
    He was bang on with that one!
    If you are not a Catholic you will not understand and I am sorry for wasting your time but I know that many a Catholic, long lapsed like me, or practising still, will know exactly what I am saying.
    Once a catholic always a catholic.
    Once a homosexual, always a homosexual in spite of ‘wossisname’ and friends, Dr. Narcosi, was it?… of recent fame.
    That is what I meant by ‘almost’.. it is in the genes’.
    (Don’t forget..I did say ‘almost..’)
    I cannot begin to think of the anguish that the likes of Martin Luther went through, or Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre or Archbishop Roddy Wright of Argyll and the Islands when they abandoned their faith, the faith of their birth; it is like abandoning your own mother, it really is.
    I have heard straight men crying over their departed wives, “She was part of me! We were one! She was in my very bones”
    That is what it is like to be a Catholic.
    That is what I meant by it being (“almost”) ‘in the genes’.
    So gimme a break.

    Keith.

  44. Keith SIMPSON 15 Jun 2009, 10:35pm

    #40 from MONKEYCHOPS
    Can’t believe someone thought Catholicism was genetic. Surely that would mean that if you were born to Catholic parents, orphaned and adopted by an atheist couple, you would still magically materialise into a Catholic. The mind boggles…
    Comment by Monkeychops — June 15, 2009 @ 16:20

    And the same goes for you as went for Simon Murphy.
    Read what I actually said, and not what you think I said.

    Keith

  45. Keith:

    It’s difficult to imagine anyone expressing the truth about cradle catholics better than you have just done. Any cradle catholic would agree with you 100%, just as any cradle catholic would correctly read and agree with your post number 7 regarding the reference to human genes.

    In fact, roman catholic priests say something quite similar, but giving it a positive spin…before passing the collection plate around.

    Countless catholic converts can carry catholicism quite convincingly.

    It’s the stangest thing. It has been seen time and again, and there’s no talking to these people: they know it all.

    A good comparison for our friends familiar only with the trappings of catholicism – the sour odor of incense and all that – would be ex-gay homophobic fundamentalist fanatics who will attempt to dominate others no matter what, and using whatever means from flattery to the mask of virtue and rhetoric, to gather as much information as is possibly possible without anyone being none the wiser.

    They invariably find their way to the front pew which nobody has used since Napoleon was a soldier, and regular catholics tend to avoid them.

    Nothing can stop them from imposing themselves because they actually believe that they have re-invented the wheel and that they are going to show you how to use it.

    They will stand in awe in front of a stained glass window and only stop when they have double-checked the number of pieces of colored glass needed to produce it. That’s contemplation 101, for you.

    They will stand up to anyone in the choir who has been repeating the same lyrics for 45 years and tell them how to sing.

    They will approach any altar server who has been there regularly slaving away for 37 years and instruct him on how to light the candles on the altar properly.

    They will make their way into the pastor’s living room and shift all the furniture around, and go through the kitchen cupboards and run their their fingers on the shelves as their smiles turn upside down.

    They will find an excuse to come around to the rectory when the collection is being counted on Monday morning to make sure the proper amount is added to their folder, and sneak a peek at who is giving what amount.

    They will have the audacity to enter the pastor’s study unannounced and question the man’s reading material as they handle a dog-eared book on mystical theology, and say something like: ‘A bit risqué for a man in your position.’

    They will be at the church door in 30 degree below weather a good 15-20 minutes before the pastor routinely opens it just so to tell him how much they suffered in the bitter cold while waiting for him to get out of bed.

    They will get a hold of the man after mass and question the very wording of the good book, and insist that their suggestions be sent along to the Vatican at once before the devil sets foot in the place, just like that bishop what’s-his-name, that no-good smiling little runt of a man who could easily lose 40 pounds, and drive around in a less flamboyant vehicle.

    In other words, Keith, yes, everything you say is true blue, and not too good to be true.

    The point being that cradle catholics ought to stand up to these converts when they are attempting – and they will – to dominate and find insult in just having to look at people.

    It’s been said by the American Association of Psychiatry that religion is a mental illness, something to do with believing your own lies. Was that it? It’s almost like being in your genes.

    Imagine a child being brought up in an environment like that. What a pair of jeans.

    Tea time, cheerio.

  46. Keith SIMPSON 16 Jun 2009, 8:38am

    Jay-Pea.

    In short, more Catholic than the pope, these Johnny-come latelies..?

    p.s. careful now…we’ll get done for “Ramble-on-athon’ing 2009″ again, …toi et moi.

    One last point.
    It would be difficult to put across the degree of absolute hatred I now have for the catholic church.
    I cannot conceive of any convert achieving that same level of ‘sick-to-my-stummick’ feeling whenever I hear the phrase ‘Roman Catholic’, or see the pontiff and all the charade/parade in their worldly flummery poncing about the world stage.
    That is another example of it being ‘almost’ in the genes.
    Converts can just get up an’ go, it no longer ‘suiting’
    An ‘in you genes’..(almost!) catholic can do no such thing.

    K.

  47. Monkeychops 16 Jun 2009, 9:21am

    Keith – to even suggest it was almost genetic was bad enough. Then to go on and say that they have you from birth is just terrifying. How dare a religion own anyone. How dare anyone own anyone’s spirt, soul or whatever you wnat to call it.

    Find me a pure Catholic that lives by every word of that book and I’ll consider your “in the genes” theory. Until there’s evidence or at least convincing testimonies, there’s no way I can accept that as a valid theory. Which is essentially what religion is – theory!

  48. Keith SIMPSON 16 Jun 2009, 7:37pm

    #47

    Monkeychops.

    Thanks for your comment.

    I am in the middle of replying but it is rather long
    (-winded..some might/do say!)…

    So I shall post it later.

    And I apologise in advance to the many who must be/will be bored witless (again) by my ‘dislike’ (!) of the RCC.
    In support of my little diatribe I shall append a letter from an old school- friend of mine who I remember well from the 1950’s

    I found his comments, which are similar to mine, when I accidentally stumbled upon the Old Boys’ web-page for that Irish Christian Brothers school we were both at in Lancashire (Blackpool).

    BUT.
    If you all ask me nicely…I shall refrain and not post it…

    K

  49. Keith SIMPSON 17 Jun 2009, 12:05am

    #47
    MONKEYCHOPS

    Well, they DO have you from birth actually; own you outright, subtly, of course!

    You are baptized into the church at weeks old.
    You may not know what’s going on since you are too busy filling your PAMPERS..but it starts pretty soon around then.
    You hear the Rosary at just months old, daily.
    Then you get taken to Mass…smell the incense…see the pretty lights ..the lovely clothes…the crib at Chrimbo….and how thrilled you are to be chosen to play Joseph in the Nativ……
    THEY…HAAAVE….GOTTTTTT… YOU…FROM….BIRTH….End of..!

    There’s a Ph.D for anyone, I am sure, to prove at what age things start to mean summat, to ‘sink in’ as it were.
    You are well on your way, at 4 in my case, with the ‘lovely’ nuns in your first class and the recitation of the ‘Hail Mary’ on the hour every hour, yes even at that age.
    Now ‘4’ is as near as damn it to ‘birth’…innit, me old flower?
    I fink so…

    You then go on to ask ‘How dare they own you…spirit….[etc]..’

    They DO, Mr. Monkeychops, boy they DOOO; they bleedin’ well DOOOO..!!
    They don’t ask!
    They just NIKE…..”do it”…!
    And the best of it is, you do not even KNOW you are being owned..!

    You then ask, “Find me a pure Catholic that lives by every word of that book and I’ll consider your “in the genes”
    [etc]…..”

    Now this is the rub, the rub-a-dub-dub of Catholicism.
    There isn’t such a being.
    The road is narrow…many are called but few are chosen….you have to make sure that you are one of the chosen.

    Let’s say you are a Catholic.
    You get to 7 or so and then you are gently told about sin, prior to making your first confession.
    You are told that you commit sin because it is in your nature; you are ‘fallen’
    Mr. and Mrs Adam started it and mankind has been sinning ever since.
    Jesus, the Son of God, was made flesh and put to death in expiation of the sins of mankind and now everything is tiketty-boo; we all get to go to Heaven but you have to work at it; it’s not just handed to you.
    The kids are fed all this in simple terms but the education is, at least for boys, and I can only speak as a boy, I do not know what goes/went through little girls’ heads at school…the education, as I was saying, is ever so slightly slanted towards sexuality, yes even at that age.
    A sin is murder for example; another sin might be a bank robbery and all those other serious, jailable offences.
    Not many will sin like that in the course of their lives BUT ALL little boys have a wotsit and sometimes that little wotsit has a mind all of its own and gets ‘agitato molto’ so you try to calm it down and it sort of feels good.
    Next thing you know you are 12/13 and suddenly you make a mess and haven’t the foggiest what it all is and neither have you any idea why the beautiful soprano voice – which hitherto had had you sooo in demand as a soloist and won you a place in the Viennese Boys’ Choir has suddenly gone kaput and is now making noises like a tram on the lines when it turns a bend…skreeeeeetttccchchchchch.
    Nobody is going to live by the book 100% but neither are many Catholic men going to murder anyone or rob a bank….however EVERY little boy is going to be a ‘banker’ or a word which sounds very much like it,
    They have GOT you.
    Masturbation is a serious, a mortal, sin in the same league as murder AND in the “you’ll get sent to Hell for doing that” -stakes.
    So a serious, media worthy crime is not necessary to commit, in order to get you sent to Hell.
    It is sufficient to be in the privacy of your own bedroom; ‘spend seed’ and your ‘done for’, eternally, unless you drop everything, rush off, find a priest and confess to this heinous crime; six times on a Sunday; I know! I have done it! I was 12/13.
    The priests were sick to the back teeth with me …regularly..!

    Now that is where they have got you.
    They know damned well that you are not going to be any Capone, Kray, or Biggs…but they DO know that you will be ‘spending seed’ out of the marital bond… ‘spending it’ for bloody BRITAIN…!
    On a daily basis and hourly on a Sunday..!.
    Thay have GOT you.; prepared you from seven and before, like a sapling, nurtured you to puberty and then pulled the rug right from under you.
    The cynicism of that is incalculable.
    It is a mortal sin and you will go to Hell for all Eternity for being a Midland ‘Banker’ and having a ‘ham-shank’.
    Now, is ‘pay-dirt’ time for the church once you reach puberty.
    They know that you will be in and out of church a dozen times a week for confession and every time you come to the confessional you will be so ‘grateful’ that you will light a candle (x pennies/cents) and put another x pennies/cents in the collection box.
    That, times how many thousands of ham-shankers a week up and down the land, no pun intended?
    Some candy over the centuries; megabucks.
    They create the ‘crime’ knowing full well that the precept CANNOT be adhered to, and that it is simply to have you impersonating a yo-yo back and forth to church seeking forgiveness for a crime that they implanted in your head, in the foist place, and which they, and only they, have the power to forgive; Christ Himself said so, they tell you.

    Control…?
    Shall I go on.

    I have been reading a comment on the website of a former school mate of mine from back in the 1950’s.
    He says much the same thing.
    I came across this website by chance; it is the Old Boys’ Association of the Irish Christian Brothers school, St. Joseph’s College in Blackpool, Lancashire.
    I shall post it for you.
    I am not sure that this is all relevant to Ms Widdecombe and the article and I shall prob. be mucho castigado for veering orff the subj AGAIN…but what the heck…

  50. Keith SIMPSON 17 Jun 2009, 12:27am

    I have appended the comment from my ex-school chum of over 50 years ago, Mr Stuart Mc Kenna.
    I have edited two thirds of it since much of it refers to stuff of no relevance to my point
    The rest, left in, is what I meant by it being ‘in the genes’ (“almost”)…ahaha..!

    Kids of 8/10/12/14….
    That is ‘from birth’ in my eyes, or as near as meks no never-minds.
    It is ..’In the genes’ enough for me.
    A born Catholic carts all this shite around all his life.
    Ms Widders/Mr.Tone-ee B. and all the other ‘converts’ are just dee-loodin’ themselves.
    They didn’t experience Catholicism at the most formative time of their lives.
    I did.
    So did Jean Paul.
    These celebs didn’t and as ‘catholics’ they are Johnny-come-very-bloody-latelies and an irrelevance because they can walk away from it if it gets too hairy.
    Liberal peer, Lord Tom McNally was in my class and George Harman Q.C. also went to St. Joe’s, Blackpool.

    CONTRIBUTION BY STUART McKENNA 1952/1958

    I attended St. Joseph’s College, Blackpool from September 1952 until June 1958.
    One of the most damaging effects of the Irish Christian Brother brand of teaching was the emphasis on the sixth and ninth commandments during religious instruction. They were obsessed with sins against these commandments, covering all sorts of sexual activity. ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery’ and ‘Thou shalt not covert thy neighbour’s wife’ became very widely interpreted. At the College there was compulsory daily lessons involving the Brothers’ understanding of the commandments. It amounted to a form of brainwashing, which left the pupils believing they were living in a permanent state of mortal sin. Being in mortal sin was to be condemned to hell for all eternity. The only hope for salvation was to seek forgiveness via the confessional. The religious ideas were linked together and became self-perpetuating, leading down a path to total obedience.
    A young boy experiencing the incredible hormonal changes of puberty was quickly made aware that any thoughts, words or deeds associated with new bodily functions that were beginning to manifest themselves, were sources of mortal sin. Anything remotely linked to sex was taboo. All incidents of this nature had to be mentally logged, listed and reported in the confessional.
    The confessional was the worst kind of torment. It was a nightmare trying to explain to a priest, in carefully chosen language, how perhaps looking at pictures in a catalogue, advertising ladies underwear had caused arousal. The number of times the shameful act had been repeated had to be revealed. Every sinful act had to be recounted. To hold back was a mortal sin. Some priests were infamous for keeping contrite youths in the box for a long time, probing for details of the offences. It was mortifying to eventually escape and face the group of penitents awaiting their turn and staring expectantly at the confessional door. There was always the fear that these people, gathered in pews just outside the box, had overheard what the priest had said. Simple penances could be easily performed immediately but doing ‘stations of the cross’ for more serious offences needed to be performed later, lest those in attendance tippled to the extent of sinfulness that had just been absolved. It was a mortal sin to forget to do the penance.
    The net result of continuous self-examination was a lowering of self-esteem in the pupil and a mentally unhealthy self-consciousness. The permanent feelings of being guilty left enduring scars on the psyche. Phrases like ‘irregular motions of the flesh’, ‘self-abuse’ and ‘spilling the seed’ were etched permanently on young minds. It was all part of the attempt to control the very thoughts of each individual. Pupils were to be seen but not heard. They had to absorb and regurgitate the lessons handed down from the ‘very mouth of God’ by these Irishmen that had been called upon to do God’s work. Being direct messengers of God, they had unquestionable authority. Every pupil also had to consider whether or not God was calling him. It was a mortal sin to ignore the call.
    Eventually attending Sunday Mass became a source of acute embarrassment. Communion could only be taken by those in a state of grace. It meant that a young boy with rampant hormones had to go to confession on Saturday evening and withstand all sorts of temptations of thought, word or deed until the host was distributed on Sunday morning. Just going to Mass and not partaking of communion exposed the individual as being in a sinful state. When the priest ascended into the pulpit he seemed to be addressing everyone in person. Young boys blushed agonizingly as the priests eyes swept over them and they squirmed in their pews. It felt as if the whole congregation knew that they were in a state of sin. The Christian Brothers always taught that the ‘eyes were the windows of the soul’ and they could tell what was on your mind by looking at you.
    The net result of Catholic indoctrination was that each individual was subdued. If by chance someone was able to withstand the mental onslaught and offered some sort of protest or opposition to the teachings, then the physical abuse would take care of that. Generally the Christian Brothers were narrow minded, vindictive and held grudges. They would invent excuses to wield the strap. Every boy had to know his place. The reading of books was controlled so as to shelter the growing mind from the increasingly corrupt secularism in society. There was a list of books that, if read, were sources of instant mortal sins. Reading was not encouraged except for selected manuscripts.

  51. She came across well on Newsnight last night. She’s an old bruiser, who will take no nonsense. That’s important for the role of Speaker, though a chimpanzee would be an improvement on the incumbent.

    She is pretty sure of her place in the afterlife, so I don’t think it really matters to her if we remind her of the obvious fact she is one hell of an ugly old bag. The mother of Old Bags, even.

  52. “The significant problems of the day cannot be solved
    with the same consciousness that created them.”—Albert Einstein

    KEITH SIMPSON !!!! You get up there and you write that sentence on the blackboard 1,873 times…..NOW !!!

  53. “The significant problems of the day cannot be solved
    with the same consciousness that created them.”—Albert Einstein

    KEITH SIMPSON !!!! you get up there and write that sentence 1,839 times on the blackboard ….NOW !!!! And come to see me in the OFFICE when you’re done!

  54. Brian Burton 17 Jun 2009, 6:23am

    I listened to Ann on BBC I-Player, She will defenatley get the job of Speaker.

  55. Keith SIMPSON 17 Jun 2009, 7:00am

    I have bored all your tits off now!
    I knew I would; you’re throwing Einstein at me!
    His likkle gem of wizz has gone well over my head, I am sorry; you’ll have to explain that one to me, in words of one silly bubble.

    AND ANOTHER THING….. :-@ :-@ :-@
    Oh, well, p’raps another time…
    Thanks for listening.
    I was thinking of taking a can of 5 star to SALFORD CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL.
    “Ashes to ashes” they want? “Ashes to ashes”- they’d get, off me, so much do I want to protest at the toss-pots, but I don’t much fancy Broadmoor.
    My rant on here instead, has let them orfff lightly.
    The fact that I am a coward of course just wouldn’t have owt to do with it?
    Haha.
    Thanks for lissnin’..
    To go back to the beginning and to agree with many uvvers on here; I do hope Widdershins gets the job; it’ll be a hoot to watch.
    But it’s the grate-y voice that gets me.
    K

    Tatties for now.

  56. Brian Burton 17 Jun 2009, 4:29pm

    ANN WIDDECOME IS A STAR…S-T-A-R, Can you hear me Mother??

  57. Keith SIMPSON 17 Jun 2009, 6:43pm

    #56
    Brian.
    Whose Variety Hall catch-phrase was that…?
    Frank Randall’s…?
    Norman Evans’?
    Rob Wilton’s..?
    K

  58. Monkey, whilst you apparently purport to have read numerous of my posting (and apparently not been impress), you seem have overlooked the fact that I vote Tory and the last thing I would be doing on here is standing up for Gordon Brown’s less than impectible record on supporting equality.

  59. Monkeychops 18 Jun 2009, 11:11am

    Leeds – Appreciate your comment, but not sure what you’re referring to as I can’t find where we’ve either discussed Gordon Brown and voting Tory or where I might have implied you would vote Labour. Was it on this thread or another one? Happy to answer, but before I do, can you point out where I might find the point(s) in question? Otherwise it won’t be very informed.

    On voting Tory, right now I can’t see them doing any worse a job than Labour and I think many people would agree with you. Though as I have said before, I am not a supporter of any particular party, just what I feel to be good ideas.

  60. Brian Burton 18 Jun 2009, 5:49pm

    Keith Simpson,

    A lovely old comedian called ‘Sandy Powell.’ He sometimes sat a dreadful Dummy on his knee too. He’s long dead now but was one of the greats.

  61. #60
    Brian
    That’s it!!
    Thanks for that.
    Aye…! that’s the one, SANDY POWELL.
    I thought it was Rob Wilton but anyway..
    Thanks again.
    Keith

  62. Brian Burton 19 Jun 2009, 5:14pm

    Keith,

    I’m not just a pretty face you know!!

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