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Spanish trans man suffers miscarriage

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  1. Simon Murphy 11 Jun 2009, 3:52pm

    I believe that these FTM transexuals who are getting pregnant are seriously damaging the cause for transexual acceptance by pubicising their pregnancies.

    Being trans is difficult to understand for a lot of people but when a woman transitions to a man and starts living as a man but then decides to get pregnant the message they are sending out is that being transexual is a choice, is not a permanent state and is entirely reversible. Men can’t hiologically carry children. When an FTM man gets pregnant it is perfectly understandable that people will say ‘Oh he’s not a man. Only women get pregnant’

    Whether this assessment is accurate or not is irrelevant as that is the clear message being read by society.

    Message to FTM transexuals – if you decide to get pregnant then good for you. Please do not whore yourself and especially your family out to the press for money as you are making acceptance of transexuals more difficult – especially when it is obvious that you are being paid for your story.

  2. This is tragic but it does raise a question…

    I thought Thomas Beatie was the only trans-man doing this so…

    how many trans-men are there in the world who are saying “from birth I’ve been a man trapped in a woman’s body, my biology is completely wrong and needs to be changed by surgery and hormones… oh wait… I want kids… well, I could keep being a woman for a bit longer I guess… no rush… my biology isn’t THAT wrong at the moment…”

    These cases are making everything I was ever taught on transexuality a nonsense.

  3. Simon Murphy 11 Jun 2009, 4:08pm

    I agree John. It raises interesting questions. I have always been told that being transexual was an innate knowledge that you were born in a body of the wrong physical gender and that transitioning is the way to finally be free to live as your true gender.

    The experiemce of giving birth is a uniquely female experience. Quite simply put men do not give birth. In order to get pregnant this man had to stop all his hormone treatments and start ovulating and menstruating again and would have had all the hormonal experiences of a pregnant woman. But how does that then tie in with the innate knowledge that he is a man? Is being a man temporary for him. Or is he male when it is convenient.

    I’m not trying to be nasty but I do have difficulty in believing that these men are real transexuals. Perhaps that’s being narrow minded but hey – these men are 180 degrees opposite of what I’ve been told by LGBT groups about transexuals.

  4. Pumpkin Pie 11 Jun 2009, 5:22pm

    You’re being too simplistic about it, Simon. It’s not that way for all transsexuals. Take an example from a (prospective) transvestite: I am totally male. Always have been, always will be. But I’m so totally gonna buy myself some megas-cute dresses to wear this summer! Still a dude, though. It’s what’s inside that counts, and I just love wearing cute outfits, no matter which gender’s “supposed” to wear them. I’m just very androgynous.

    As for you, John, if you click on “Trans man gives birth to second child”, I wrote a long response to a similar (yet much nastier) comment in there. It’s right near the bottom. Basically, the relevant part boils down to “pregnancy and birth is a woman’s job? Nice one, sexist pig.” Oh, and how about male seahorses? They carry the foetus and then give birth to them. Does that make them female?

  5. I won’t get into Pumpkin Pie’s answer which as far as I can see, seems to confuse being a (prospective) transvestite with being a transgender.

    To the rest of you I would simply ask to chill out and back off. Who are we to judge the experience of a person who feels that the right path for them is to transition from one gender to the other? Who says that the decision to have children was taken lightly, that it was easy, what it has meant for them. We’re all sitting here judging these people along these very hetero-normative lines.

    We are constantly fighting with people who say we are “against nature” for being gay and now we’re here doing the same thing bringing up primary school biology concepts telling people that a man is a man is a man. Well, those school concepts don’t really allow for transgenderism so they clearly do not apply here.

    Just let people live their lives.

  6. The desire to have children is a human one – not male or female. Imagine the pain of your (female) partner not being able to conceive when it is their dream? If you could do it for them, as a loving partner, I’m sure you would. Let’s not forget that this guy has just suffered a miscarriage – an awful experience I’m sure.

  7. Simon Murphy 12 Jun 2009, 10:44am

    These men are damaging the cause of transexuals though.

    Transexuals face prejudice for sure. Everyone can accept that. These men however are on the one hand saying ‘Accept me for my true gender even though I was not born this gender’ and the next day are saying ‘Well you know what – even though being male is my true gender I am not willing to give up my female reproductive ability and I am going to continue to menstruate, and ovulate and get pregnant and give birth to a child’

    I’m not an expert but these men seem to be discarding their so-called true gender identity for convenience and their actions definitely encourage the idea among transphobic people that being trans is a choice and it is reversible when convenient.

  8. Simon Murphy 12 Jun 2009, 10:50am

    And another thing – how do these men reconcile the enormous psychological; physical and hormonal impact of being pregnant with their so-called male identities?

    Simply to say ‘Accept people the way they are’ is a nice thing to say for sure. But it doesn’t actually answer any questions.

  9. @ Simon Murphy

    Your just not getting this are you! Your posts are normally very tolerant so I will challenge you to think about this differently.

    If a gay man use a surrogate does that make them heterosexual?

    If a lesbian uses a sperm donor would you call her heterosexual?

    No

    Why are you then asking for higher standards from transsexuals Simon?

    The fundamental thing in this situation is the desire to reproduce can outstrip a persons sexuality and gender identity. When a person goes baby crazy non of these things matter its just a mechanical process that gives them the baby they want. I know of many male to female transsexuals who have frozen sperm for the future. Being trans does not stop you wanting a family just the same as being homosexual does not.

    @ valerio

    The word transgender is a coverall term from cross-dressing to transsexuals all are part of the trans spectrum.

  10. Simon Murphy 12 Jun 2009, 1:21pm

    “If a gay man use a surrogate does that make them heterosexual?
    If a lesbian uses a sperm donor would you call her heterosexual?”

    Well of course not.

    You say the desire to have a child is greater than gender identity. I think that is a load of old rubbish. Some people have an urge to be a parent. But being a parent is not a matter of life and death for ANYONE. Many people desperately want children but don’t have them due to infertility; age; relationship status etc etc.

    I think you Abi are being extremely intolerant in your replies. You make this sweeping statement that desire for a child is greater than gender identity without any evidence whether this is true or not and then tell me I’m being intolerant because I am unable to reconcile the idea of a man being pregnant in my bead.

    It seems you are denigrating the uniquely female experience of childbirth.

  11. Pumpkin Pie 12 Jun 2009, 4:51pm

    valerio: I won’t get into Pumpkin Pie’s answer which as far as I can see, seems to confuse being a (prospective) transvestite with being a transgender.

    Eh? I was just trying to give an example of someone who acts outside the gender binary, and how it doesn’t change who and what I am. This man is the same as me – doing something “feminine”, but he’s still a guy. Sorry if I was being confusing.

    Simon Murphy:-
    These men are damaging the cause of transexuals though.

    How can you say such a callous thing? They’re not bloody PR people. I REALLY dislike utilitarianism, you know. And if anything, they actually ARE helping transpeople. Heteronormative gender roles are far too restrictive. We shouldn’t be trying to squeeze everyone into them, but rather expand them to take account of the true range of diversity out there.

    It seems you are denigrating the uniquely female experience of childbirth.

    Lololol baby-factories, amirite?

  12. I won’t even go into the whys or wherefores of whether a girl that’s now a guy should have a baby. My concern is that however distasteful this may sound, transsexuals are unnatural and didn’t exist until hormone treatment and plastic surgery. They are a man-made creation.

    You are physically taking a woman, injecting her with testosterone and other agents to lower female hormone production, and they decide they want to have a baby. I know she apparently came of the medication to get pregnant, but you can’t keep chopping and changing like this. It is not good for the woman, and as is shown here, highly dangerous for the baby. These people are selfish, and want their cakes and eat them. Either be a man, or be a woman, but stop fucking about because you are endangering children because of your vain little whims.

  13. these guys arent damaging anything. they are transsexuals, they are living their lives without hurting anyone or breaking the law. if the majoriy have issues with them its the problem of the majority and not the trans community.

    i applaud every biological transwoman father and transman mother for being prepared to suffer to have children. if everyone had to do that the world may well be a better place.

  14. Pumpkin Pie 29 Jun 2009, 5:34pm

    transsexuals are unnatural and didn’t exist until hormone treatment and plastic surgery

    Yes they did, you f–kwit. Transsexuality refers to the psychological phenomenon, not the changes to a person’s body. All that hormone therapy and the like have done is helped give these people a better chance at leading a regular life.

  15. Poor guy :(

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