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Stonewall: Go and vote tomorrow to keep homophobes out

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  1. I have a question for everyone: What exactly is the BNP’s policy on gay rights and homosexuality?

    I don’t want guesses and conjecture and what people might think. I want facts; I asked many, and scoured the BNP site itself, but so far have not seen a single mention of it. If Stonewall wants to persuade people not to vote BNP, it needs quotes, facts and policy, not just biased socialist opinion.

    Incidentally, I am not a BNP supporter, just playing devil’s advocate. News should be impartial.

  2. quote from Mark Collett on AIDS …….”A “friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it.”

    the BNP has been known to protest gay pride events also….and who can forget the Admiral Duncan bombing 10 years ago?

    maybe someone else can confirm i think the BNP are opposed to civil partnerships…..

    from a Google search…a cached page from the BNP site…part of it reads “not only would we not allow Elton John to marry his boyfriend but our proposals for a strengthened Clause 28 would prevent such a sick parody of real marriage being shown on TV in any case.” published in March 2006

  3. RobN…. hmmmm… didn’t I see you on another thread supporting the BNP, to “prevent Britain becoming Muslim”?

    Sounds like you’re back to stir shit again.

  4. REPOSTING BECAUSE PREVIOUS POST GOT LOST ON THIS STUPID SITE….
    PETER TATCHELL’S ARTICLE FROM 2 YEARS AGO, FOR ROBN-Ns BENEFIT…

    QUEER THE VOTE, STOP THE BNP”

    Neo-Nazis threaten gay, black, Jewish and Muslim people

    Big queer vote urged to block the election of BNP candidates

    London – 17 April 2007

    “Queer the vote and stop the BNP”. This is the message of gay human rights group OutRage! ahead of the 3 May elections for local councils and for the Scottish and Welsh assemblies.

    “Lesbians and gay men can help block the election of candidates from the racist, anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim and homophobic British National Party (BNP). Make sure you and your straight friends vote on 3 May,” said Peter Tatchell of OutRage!

    “A high turnout will reduce the BNP’s share of the vote and lessen its chances of winning seats,” he said.

    “We urge queer voters to quiz their local candidates on gay issues and to vote for those with the most homo-friendly policies.

    “With one-in-ten voters being lesbian, gay or bisexual, the pink vote can influence the election result in many marginal constituencies.

    “It is important we elect more pro-gay politicians, to help us secure stronger policies to tackle homophobic bullying and hate crimes,” said Mr Tatchell.

    The BNP is fielding a record 655 candidates in the local elections next month; claiming it is on target to win up to 100 new seats – double its current total.

    As well as the party’s long history of homophobia, BNP activists also stand accused racism, anti-Semitism, holocaust denial and Islamophobia. A disturbing number of past and present BNP members have criminal convictions for violence – (see wikipedia reference)

    Although the BNP has publicly ditched some of its most extreme and bigoted policies, many critics believe this make-over is just an astute public relations exercise designed to con people were put off by its neo-Nazi image. They say the BNP hasn’t changed at all; it has just got more professional and media savvy.

    The BNP fought previous general elections on a pledge to outlaw homosexuality. It has described Aids as “nature taking revenge” on gay men.

    The party’s website claims that: “Sexually-transmitted diseases are no joke. Thanks to them, the average life-expectancy of a gay man is now 40, compared to 71 for all men” – (article on bnp website now gone but was listed under ‘traditional values’ section )

    Claiming that the “gay rights lobby target school children,” the BNP has opposed gay equality reforms like the repeal of Section 28 and the abolition of the unequal age of consent. It has also condemned and ridiculed LGBT History Month – (weblink can be supplied)

    Soon after the neo-Nazi bombing of a gay bar in Soho, London , in 1999, which killed three people and maimed dozens more, BNP leader Nick Griffin seemed to excuse and endorse the homophobic hatred that inspired the terrorist atrocity. He attacked lesbian and gay people for “flaunting their perversion” and said this showed why “so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive”.

    Source: Stranger things have happened, Nick Griffin, Spearhead (BNP magazine), June 1999.

    Griffin has also denounced homosexuality as “form of behavioural deviancy” and “not a valid lifestyle choice”. He claims the BNP speaks for “the majority of the population” who, he says, believe “homosexuality is wrong” and that it “needs to be pushed humanely but firmly back into the closet”. Griffin warns that if gays continue to “press their aims further” there will be an “almighty backlash” which will result in the imprisonment of all homosexuals.

    Source: Putting the record straight, Nick Griffin, Identity (BNP Magazine), December 2003.

    Griffin is not alone. Mark Collett, former chairman of the Young BNP, described homosexuals as “AIDS Monkeys”, “bum bandits” and “faggots” and said the idea of homosexuality was a “sickening thought” [see wiki refernce]

    There are fears the BNP could make gains in Scotland and Wales in the 3 May elections.

    “Recent election results indicate the BNP could make an electoral breakthrough,” added Brett Lock of OutRage!

    “Under the proportional representation voting system for the Scottish and Welsh elections minor parties like the BNP can win seats.

    “There is a possibility that the BNP may, for the first time, secure representation in the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly”.

    “The BNP is attempting to copy the success of other European far right and neo-Nazi parties, such as the Front National in France , the Vlaams Blok in Belgium and the National Democratic Party in Germany.

    “The BNP is a racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic party. It has previously threatened to jail queers and bring back Section 28,” said Mr Lock.

    Typical homophobic propaganda from the BNP website:

    articles that appeared under ‘traditional values’ a couple of years ago, now conveniently disppeared:

    Why traditional values on sex are better

    Alan Goodacre says it’s time someone was honest about the failings of the sexual revolution.

    Thankfully, despite the Blair regime’s attempts to shove homosexuality down our throats by means of sex-ed, we do not yet live in a country where sexual matters are regulated by the state, as in the novel Brave New World. So there is an understandable temptation to simply ignore such matters in the name of individual freedom. But unfortunately, sexual mores, and the encouragement or discouragement government gives to them, deal with the social relations of human beings with one another, and have immense consequences for society, so they cannot be ignored.

    Although the BNP is not a “puritan” party, it nonetheless recognizes that something has gone horribly wrong with the sexual revolution and believes that, insofar as state policy does touch on sexual matters, it should centre on repairing the damage of that revolution, not worsening it. Because the sexual revolution has helped create the social chaos that we must overcome if we are to move to a true national renaissance, we must at least get clear in our minds what is wrong, even if the resources of government are – and rightly – limited in dealing with it.

    Before one can intelligently discuss sexual policy, one must dispell the great myth of our age. People often ask, “why can’t we just say that anything consenting adults do is OK?” Well, it’s not OK because it has a long list of negative consequences:

    1. Sexually-transmitted diseases are no joke. Thanks to them, the average life-expectancy of a gay man is now 40, compared to 71 for all men. Something like 20% of British women aged 25-30 are sterile because of STDs.

    2. Making “consenting adults” the standard means polygamy, bestiality, prostitution and God-knows-what-else must be accepted, in the long run. One cannot endorse an idea that leads logically to this conclusion and expect that conclusion not to be reached when lust, money, and liberalism will be straining to reach it. So unless we want brothels to be as common and as public as Tesco, there have to be some limits.

    Some people suggest that such things are acceptable in private but not in public, but this solution will not work. It is unrealistic to expect that we can accept such things in private but condemn them in public, because allowing people to do these things in private results in the formation of interest groups that will then demand public acceptance. And if people get used to seeing such things in private, the shock of seeing them in public will wear off and they will cease to care.

    3. Tolerating “anything between consenting adults” will not lead to a libertarian paradise, but:

    a. For the underclass, it will produce a wasteland of broken homes, fatherless children, and mindless couplings. See Theodore Dalrymple’s Life at the Bottom:

    b. For everyone else, it will produce an emotionally cruel social order which provides superficial pleasures for the rich and the pretty at the expense of misery for everyone else. It will culturally and socially disenfranchise the old and push the young into premature maturity.

    c. It will cause young people to waste their 20′s chasing short-term flings rather than getting married, and when they finally figure out that this is a recipe for unfulfilled lives and continual heartbreak, they’ll be in their early 30′s and half of them will not be able to establish stable households before female fertility declines.

    4. A sexual order whose central concept is “consenting adults” will by definition be very selfish towards persons who are not adults, i.e. children. The easy availability of extra-marital sex encourages divorce and makes the children of the partner’s previous marriages or cohabitations into nuisances. It will result in a ruthlessly adult-centric social order in which children are degraded, ignored, and not raised properly.

    5. Making “consenting adults” the rule undermines social cohesion by making everyone into a sexual competitor to everyone else. The most ordinary recreational or civic organizations will suffer and the whole tone of life poisoned. Furthermore, because this makes innocent flirting not so innocent, it actually produces a de-eroticized culture with the coldness of Dangerous Liaisons.

    6. Accepting the sexual revolution means conceding that traditional British culture was as stupid as Tony Blair thinks it is. It means admitting the left was correct. It means giving up one of the best cultural sticks we have to beat the liberal establishment with. And accepting polygamy means giving up one of the best politically-correct cultural sticks we have to beat Islam with.

    7. A certain sexual self-restraint has long been part of the culture of Britain and was, in my view, a source of national greatness as male sexual energy was channelled into other pursuits and female sexual energy into the family. Can it really be an accident that our zenith of national greatness coincided with Victorian sexual restraint, and that Rome’s decline set in just about the time orgies became fashionable?

    So while we should certainly disavow any attempt to introduce a sexual police-state, we should not give positive moral endorsement to avoidable vices. Lots of people are quietly fed up with the sexual revolution and would appreciate someone being honest about its shortcomings.

  5. Make no mistake, people, the BNP is for a Britain as it was in 1914. Griffin, its leader, has actually said so. The BNP wants a Britain which is:
    1. all-white,
    2. Christ-worshipping,
    3. and heterosexual.

    IGNORE what BNP supporters are suggesting when they infiltrate these threads, pretending they are not BNP supporters and trying to influence us away from the fundamentals of the gay rights movement.

    There has been a dramatic rise in homophobia in the UK in recent years, as evidenced by the report of this last week, and that homophobia unfortunately comes from the British majority: the disaffected white working-class. This is the same group of people who are now turning to the BNP. They are turning to the BNP and they are turning towards homophobia.

    IF YOU VOTE FOR THE BNP, THEY ARE UNLIKELY TO GREATLY INFLUENCE BRITISH POLITICS, BUT YOU WILL ENABLE THEM TO CLAIM THAT THERE IS GROWING SUPPORT FOR THE FASCIST PRINCIPLES WHICH THEY STAND FOR.

  6. Jonathan L 3 Jun 2009, 4:04pm

    Yes, it is important that we elect more absolutely undoubted out-of-the-closet pro-gay politicians if we are to secure stronger policies and reduce homophobia and hate crimes. Unless a candidate or his/her party has stated clearly, repeatedly, and categorically that they are 100% for gay and lesbian rights DO NOT VOTE FOR THEM.

  7. KinkyBoots 3 Jun 2009, 4:07pm

    AdrianT, thank you for your post, particularly the last part where you reproduce stuff that the BNP has recently started to hide in order to try and get more votes.

  8. The BNP talk out of their arses. On the basis that there are approx 2 million out bi abd gay people in the UK and more closeted. What are they gonna do with us? I tell you one thing this queens marching , and so will many others. They cant lock up 2 million people. Force those living together to move. This counrty would never tolerate that. I asked some one I know if he was voting BNP, oh yes he said, went on and on about the same old BNP crap , and then guess what , told me he was not on the electrol roll. So I guess it was back to the TV and his armchair politics. Stopping gay rights is too late now. We have tasted them and boy do they taste good. The BNP and other tossers like them will have a fight on there hands , and if we become the community we once were, then we will beat these shits.

  9. Juris Lavrikovs 3 Jun 2009, 4:18pm

    You can see who in the UK signed ILGA-Europe’s European Election 2009 Pledge to support LGBT rights at European level. Pity Stonewall did not even mention this pan-EU campaign ….

  10. Good lucks GREENS!

  11. I agree its vitally important to vote and make sure people like the BNP don’t stand a chance of gaining power of any kind. Remember, if you don’t vote tomorrow, then don’t moan when you find your human rights being eroded. Make your voice heard.

  12. Andy: If you want to quote me, find the comment and the reference, otherwise stop badmouthing me and shut the fuck up. I do not support the BNP. I am merely asking people to state fact, not Chinese whispers and conjecture, which is obviously something you love to spread.

  13. ?

    Trying to post but it ain’t having it.
    (3 times…keeps telling me I am duplicating)

    BNP got into the wiring…?

    K

  14. #1.

    RobN

    Take a look at the PINKNEWS article, by staff-writer Marc Shoffman …”HOMOSEXUALITY COULD BECOME COMPULSORY…”…from May 2006.

    The subsequent COMMENTS go on until just recently.
    In particular, I think you may find the answer to your question, at least in part, in the COMMENT, numbered 26, from May 14 recently, right at the end, from a certain TERENCE BURGESS.

    He has got it right and I think you will find that the BNP will take your penny but only THEN will it let you know what it is all about.

    K

  15. RobN.
    It has finally allowed my comment after 4 attempts.
    I wonder if that is because I deleted from my original text, the URL for the article I quoted..?
    I shall try to send it sep.
    K

  16. Mine at #15
    I have tried to send sep. the relevant trackback URL but it is not having it; maybe that is why it would not let me send the comment before (4 times).
    Anyway, that article from May 2006 is on “HOMOSEXUALITY COULD BECOME COMPULSORY..”
    K

  17. Keith: It’s about time someone on Pink News fixed this bloody awful messaging system to allow people top automatically embed URLs.

    (Or at least tell us how to do it properly)

    (Or allow us to edit/amend a posting)

    (Or allow us to preview before posting)

    Get the hint PN People?

  18. AnthonyfromAyrshire 3 Jun 2009, 6:29pm

    I read Anthony T’s comment (no.4) about the fears in 2007 that the BNP could get seats in the Scottish Parliament. Thankfully, that didn’t happen, but we ended up with the homophobic SNP instead, which isn’t much better off.

  19. #17 RobN
    Yep..
    Tried again just now, some hours later.
    I typed in the URL, for that article, manually.
    But NOPE…It don’t like that, either.

    Anyways..it seems (and others on here have said it, too) that the BNP has said everything on its policies about us lot, simply by saying nothing and that, on the advice of its lawyers.
    Their saying nothing has said it all; silence has spoken volumes….and that (lawyers’ advice) might answer your query as to why there seems to be no actual manifesto on LG issues.

    K

  20. Keith, you can’t post URLs here unless you embed them in the href code, see under “Leave a comment”. The easiest thing to do is paste in the whole URL and then delete “http://www” and it will accept the rest. People then should have the sense to complete the prefix if their browser needs it.

  21. Keith, you can’t post URLs here unless you embed them in the href code, see under “Leave a comment”. The easiest thing to do is paste in the whole URL and then delete everything up to and including www and it will accept the rest. People then should have the sense to complete the prefix if their browser needs it.

  22. PETE
    #20/21

    Thanks for that..

    So it wasn’t the BNP, then..?!!
    Never mind.
    Still not votin’ for ‘em.!
    No it was my thickitude..it has taken me 10 years just to learn how to switch the damned computer on..!

    K

  23. pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-1456.html/trackback

    Trying it…
    And if it works…DON’T YOU JUST LEARN ON HERE!!
    K

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  25. Jean-Paul 4 Jun 2009, 4:32am

    It never ceases to amaze me how you presume RobN is saying one thing when in reality he’s saying another.

    Just take a look at his original post. What did he say exactly to make you believe he’s BNP? We all know he leans a bit to the right, right?

    Do you mean that only the BNP wants to prevent GREAT BRITAIN from becomimg Muslims?

    Give the man his freedom of speech, will ya, and don’t put words in his mouth. He told you in plain English that he was playing the devil’s advocate. In case you don’t know what that means, let me tell you that from where I’m standing, on the other side of the pond, RobN has succeeded in surfacing the fact(s) that a vote for the BNP is a vote for homophobes.

    AdrianT is magnificent, as usual. Does anyone have any doubt as to where not to place your ‘X’ today?

    This exquisite thread would not have materialized had the shit not been stirred by Mr. RobN.

  26. Jean-Paul 4 Jun 2009, 5:35am

    Oh, and by the by, unless you want the BNP to replace Brown in 2010 (or sooner), I suggest you have a good look at Labour MP’s and start dressing one of them to replace Brown.

    Don’t try to tell a Canadian about mediocre politicians, puh-lease. That’s all that’s left, the mediocre ones. The smart ones are out there earning a decent living quietly.

    A star fell out of heaven when Obama was elected. Is there an Obama on the British horizon? Not in the BNP, that’s for sure.

    We are all in a turmoil. Where’s a visionary when you need one?
    In a party that says that Britain was in its prime in Victorian times when sexuality was supressed? BARF.

    If you want a really screwed-up Conservative, come and take this plastic-faced Harper off our hands. The democratic process sure ain’t what it used to be.

    Oh, I don’t mean that. I’m just foolin’ around, that’s all.

  27. JP – to repeat – I merely cut and pasted an article by peter tatchell, which is accessible to all, in response to a (quite justified) request for evidence from a commentator. I’m by no means magnificent, but thanks for the compliment, ‘as usual’. ;-)

  28. Of course Stonewall and other quangotised “charities” would like us to vote their bum chums New Labour back in so that the fabric of British society can continue to be decimated and eroded, but it ain’t gonna happen. How sickeningly ironic that the new religion of political correctness has succeeded only in driving those it failed to deceive into the embrace of the far right.

  29. We need to learn from our own history! When we chopped off the kings head and had civil war, the outcome was a horror of it ever happening again. We are one of the few European nations not to have had a civil war in modern history because we adapt and change our institutions as needs be (ie bringing in German and Dutch kings!) We should never allow a dictatorship o the Right to take over in any shape or form (see the Film V for vendetta!)

  30. AdrianT (27):

    And you’re modest, to boot.

    There’s no ‘merely’ about it. Hank had been at you for days on another thread, and even though you were not alone against the stupid beast, you were having a tough week at work.

    In your place, I would have had neither the patience nor the stamina to ‘research’, ‘cut’ & ‘paste’ anything, let alone to post on this thread.

    Not only that, you are decent enough to admit that the ‘commentator’s’ request was justified. That’s the first time I hear anyone give ‘him’ an inch, while others were giving ‘him’ sh*t.

    Validating one another from time to time not only builds solidarity, it shows others how to build solidarity, and there’s nothing sissified about that.

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned from PinkNews is how to tell a person what I think of him/her without fear of resorting to distinctive adjectives. When the times comes to blast you, I’ll be there to do that too. At the moment…well, I know it’s embarrassing to be complimented in public, so enough is enough.

    It’s also embarrassing to be insulted in public, and once that begins it can go on and on, like it feeds on itself, like what James Joyce meant when he talked about a sow eating her young, e.g. ‘Portrait of The Artist As A Young Man’.

    I’m not pandering to anyone; just calling it as I see it.

    Whether you like it or not, my friend, you are a role model in London’s LGBT population. You ain’t poifect, but there’s one or two good things about you.

    So the bottom line is ‘Nobody vote BNP today’, right!

    It’s about &.00 a.m. here; must be about 11 there. Has the voting begun? No brawling in the streets?? Let’s hope everyone votes and that the right ones get in.

  31. Jean-Paul you congrat RobN for ‘stirring the shit’ and creating an ‘exquisite thread’ but it’s pretty obvious that you’re the one who loves stirring the shit over here. Don’t they let you stir it in your own neck of the woods? RobN has pointed the finger at ethnic minorities. That’s the tactic of a right-wing fascist bigot. He may not be in the pay of the BNP but if not he’s probably with the acceptable face of the BNP: the UK Conservative party, the Tories – like the worst of the Yankee Republicans in case you haven’t quite understood that yet.

  32. Sally: It is not a secret on this website from previous posts that I have a big concern over immigration in this country. Anyone that comes here is effectively a “minority” due to the simple fact they are not British. However, I do not single out ethnic people. I feel the same about White Europeans, Australians, South Africans, Irish and all the other white people that come here.

    Just because I have that standpoint does not make me a Tory, and certainly not BNP. I personally wanted to know from others on here what the BNP’s standpoint was, as so many are bandying about theories, opinions and personal statements about these people, but I had yet to hear anything directly from the horses mouth. Instead of hurling abuse and name calling, why don’t you *read* what people say, rather than reading-in your own personal, bigoted and blinkered opinions and making up your own mind about me without even following my narrative?

    Adrian_T for one answered my question, and enlightened myself, and I hope, many others. Many thanks for that extensive bit of information. I had never had any intention of voting BNP, but I think this thread should demonstrate clear, factual reasons to anyone considering the idea as to why not.

  33. So RobN . . . it is true that you will be voting for UKIP

    (you seem to have kept quite about that on this thread for some reason, although you came out as a UKIP voting on another thread)

    Every one to their own . . .

    So in what way is voting for UKIP, not the same as voting for the BNP. . . specifically in relation to immigration?

  34. . . . and homophobia

  35. Interesting to pop back in here and find RobN still exhibiting the behaviour of an extreme right-winger while trying to proclaim that he’s not a supporter of the bigot groups and that he is, contrary to his behaviour, a staunch supporter of gay rights. So amusing.

  36. What about Ben Summerskills transphobia is it not hypercritical of be to lambaste the BNP for homophobia when Ben and Stonewall are blatantly transphobic.

    I in no way support the BNP and would urge people to vote for anybody but them.

  37. What about Ben Summerskills transphobia is it not hypercritical of Ben to lambaste the BNP for homophobia when Ben and Stonewall are blatantly transphobic.

    I in no way support the BNP and would urge people to vote for anybody but them.

  38. Jean-Paul 4 Jun 2009, 2:50pm

    Sally (31):

    Thanks for the feedback. Whether we call it stirring the sh*t or kick-starting the little wheels in our brains, you have to admit that this thread is relevant to keeping the homophobes out of power.

    ‘Don’t they let you….?’ Sally-y, who’s ‘they’?

    I have been campaigning for human rights here for years: educational campaigns and fund-raising campaigns. I don’t get anywhere near the intelligent and/or passionate feedback because we are so damned apathetic over here.

    I’ve had people handing over a $100, asking for a receipt for income tax purposes, and who haven’t got a clue, nor do they want one, about the issue.

    I’ve had people smiling gently and taking a brochure and in a few minutes I’ve seen the brochure, unread, tossed into the nearest trash can or being swept up by the wind.

    Yes, Canadians are stuck in the wierdous kind of Conservative coalition. I believe I know something of what harm the BNP could do in England during this time of flux. When are our soldiers going to stop coming back from Afghanistan in coffins???

    We are as concerned with Canadian identity as Australia is with Australian identity and as some of you are concerned with a deeply-rooted British identity.

    Yet, no-one can deny that multi-national industries are running the show, and that identity/diversity is a 21st century dialectic, whether we like it or not, and that includes the entire range of political attitudes, including yours.

    Finally, I did think it clever of RobN to ask a simple question that triggered a tidal wave of facts about the BNP, and I knew, because I had taken the time to read his post on another thread, that he was leaning towards the UKIP. RobN can defend himself; he doesn’t need the likes of me.

    The fact remains, Sally, that I have as much of a right to be here as anybody else, or do you have a ring-wing fascist bigot attitude towards colonials?

    No ofense intended, and none taken.

  39. Sally, if asking for evidence is tantamount to bigotry, that’s a sad day for democracy, and for Reason. I actually think, the BNP has been able to get so far, and position themselves as maverick, because they are being shut out of the debate.

    Well, I don’t want to take a government minister’s word for it thanks, I want to find that out myself Iit’s through checking the people behind the bnp, that I discover it’s even worse than I thought by the way). I don’t want the BNPs success to be related to someone else’s credibility ratings.

    If you want to blow the BNP out of the water – put them on a panel against AC Grayling, Peter Tatchell, Maryam Namazie and others (and see all those people on youtube if you don’t know who I mean). The only weapon against totalitarianism is Reason. Otherwise, we deny the opportunity of BNP politicians and supporters to ever have their opinions tested. And as a result they change their tune with the frequency of a weather vane.

  40. Sister Mary Clarence 5 Jun 2009, 2:20am

    Sally – p*ss of and leave Jean-Paul alone. The BNP is not the acceptable face ot the Conservative party, you Trotzky twat, that’s just shite that usually comes out of the mouths of supporters of the doomed Labour party, who will say anthing to get your vite

  41. Dafydd Jones 5 Jun 2009, 10:36am

    RobN, as Sally says, you defend your pointing your finger at ethnic minorities by saying you are against all immigrants into this country. So can we hear please when you are packing your bags and leaving yourself? – because you too are almost certainly “an immigrant”.

    Presumably you know that we Celts were driven into the mountains of Wales and Scotland by European invaders? That therefore it can be said that we Welsh and Scots have a greater right to English land than the English who currently live there? If you are English, and I suspect you are, you are descended from invaders and you are “an immigrant”. So when are you leaving for your original home?

    However, we Celts are also immigrants to this island. We too originated from Europe, from an area roughly where Austria now is. Before we invaded there was an earlier people here. They were practically wiped out. It is highly unlikely that you can trace your line of descent right back to them, over two thousand years ago, . . . so you, RobN, are an immigrant to this island just like those you would like to accuse of being at the root of some of today’s problems.

    Think about it.

  42. re. the person calling him/herself Sister mary clarence, you’re a deluded Tory-lover. Don’t tell me to piss off from this site. I was there back in the 80s organizing the demonstrations against you Tories and what you were planning and what you actually did to suppress gay rights. I met many of your lot and I know what you are really all about. Just as the BNP today are hiding their adulation of Hitler and the Nazis just like Le Pen did in France in order to be seen as less offensive and to get more votes, so is Cameron and his party trying to give the impression that the Tory party is gay-supporting through and through. No way they are. They haven’t thought twice about getting into bed with the conservatives in Poland for example who are extremely anti-gay. If the Tory part was sincerely gay-supportive they would clearly denounce the behaviour of that party in Poland, not link up with them. There are countless such examples that can be given.

    I will NOT piss off. I will hang around this site, better still I am going to get as many of my friends as I can to hang around this site and make sure that the likes of you, Sister Mary Tory-Arse-Licker, don’t bully people who are genuinely aware of the reality of the different parties.

    So there! You called me a “Trotzky twat”. Get the spelling right! And anyway, I’ve never read Trotsky. But as you’ve called me a twat, let me return the favour before I get my friends to come and give you a good tongue-whipping, YOU are nothing but a TORY-TWAT!

  43. Dafydd Jones: Why do you people always come up with that crap? This country didnt even have a ruler at that time, let alone border control.

    If you want to nitpick, we all originated from somewhere in Central Africa. The only thing is that some of us have evolved. Have you managed to get your knuckles from not dragging on the ground yet?

  44. Dafydd Jones 7 Jun 2009, 8:13pm

    OK, RobN, so you have admitted that if we go right back to source “we all originated from somewhere in Central Africa”.

    So given that every person currently in the UK “originated from somewhere in Central Africa” why have you chosen to single out certain human beings who are in a minority and to blame them for this country’s general problems?

    I shall ignore your appalling insult which is presumably aimed at we Welsh and just remind you that we were here for centuries before you came here uninvited.

  45. “we all originated from somewhere in Central Africa. The only thing is that some of us have evolved.”

    Really? Didn’t the death camp in Auschwitz-Birkenau exist because some people thought certain nationalities/races were “more evolved” than others?

  46. “So given that every person currently in the UK “originated from somewhere in Central Africa” why have you chosen to single out certain human beings who are in a minority and to blame them for this country’s general problems?”

    Its called being a racist f–kwit.

    Its called showing your ignorance.

    Its what RobN spouts here regularly. He’s some right wing tosser who likes to generalise on race all without any real facts.

    The sad part is he’s gay. If you’re being discriminated against because you’re gay, then pass it on to another minority to make yourself feel better, that’s the RobN way. How f–king intelligent can this social reject be?

    Racist moron.

  47. We have ALL evolved, RobN. Genetically, apart from a few cosmetic features, we are identical. Especially when it comes to cognative ability. cf: Jared Diamond ‘germs, guns and steel’. Western Civilisation was simply in the right place at the right time, after the ice age, to domesticate horses and crops (zebras can’t be domesticated). That’s why the British had lots of colonies in Arfica and not the other way around.

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