This is just one of many reasons why I will not be voting for the SNP for the north-east of Scotland region in Thursday’s european elections. They are just too socially conservative, but then try to cover that fact up.
The SNP have shown themselves to be homophobic time and time again since they accepted half a million pounds from a homophobic donor and then changed their policy on bus regulation to suit that same donor. Two SNP cabinet ministers have spoken out against gay rights in the two years since they gained power in the Scottish Parliament, and now this. The SNP are homophobic, plain and simple.
“Catholic adoption agencies should be able to operate within the teachings of the church.”
In the first place, the official teachings of the RCC encourages catholics to treat gays with respect and compassion. As long as homosexuality is mentioned in the same paragraph as incest, prostitution and adultery in the new catechism, let’s call a spade a spade shall we: baloney!
Secondly, the way things are going in the RCC, setting aside the secrecy which is endemic, the Vatican will soon be proclaiming its dominion over secular states, like Boniface did in the 9th century.
What next, Vatican approval of a new Prime Minister?
On the other hand, and to get a grip on the situation, the RCC is nowadays characterized by empty church pews as people, real people, become more and more informed about the injustices brought about in Third World countries by the alliance of the RCC with state powers instead of the RCC’s concern for the needs of the poor, the outcasts, the victims of globalization and multi-national exploitation of natural ressources.
This has more to do with the teachings of the RCC than with adoption policies, I know, but my point is that the RCC is talking from both sides of its mouth in its ‘teachings’.
To me, a cradle catholic, that means that the RCC is less concerned with the well-being of children in need of families than with its real teachings about homosexuality, which as we know are more of a mental illness than anything remotely ressembling the teachings of Jesus.
No political party gives everything the gay community wants in terms of equality. The fact is that the SNP have and ARE actively supporting equality legislation, including gay hate crime laws introduced into the Scottish parliament by the Green MSP Patrick Harvie. They are actively supporting this legislation.
So, I do think it is misleading and simplistic to label the SNP as homophobic, as they definitely are not homophobic. There are homophobes in all parties, and the SNP is no different, but its democratically decided policies are not homophobic, and actually very supportive of gay rights.
I do agree, however that they really shouldn’t take money from homohobic souter – but again, he is not and will not influence the Scottish Government (SNP) policy on gay rights.
Check the SNP government record on gay rights, and you’ll find they are not homophobic overall as a party. Don’t forget one of their Euro MP’s is openly gay, living with his partner.
The comment above says that the SNP will not be influenced by their homophobic financial donor on gay rights – they changed their bus regulation policy quick enough to suit him when he offered them half a million quid. He says the SNP is not homophobic overall, but this is a cabinet secretary in the SNP government colluding with the catholic church to discriminate against LGBT people. She must have had the backing of the whole government. I can only base my opinion on what I see in the news, and for me that is too many accounts of the SNP, as a whole or by individual members, treating the LGBT community unfairly. For the record, I’m not a member or supporter of any particular party. I actually used to vote SNP.
“Check the SNP government record on gay rights, and you’ll find they are not homophobic overall as a party”
Oh, really? Silly me, I always though they were.
So, explain to me why did the BNP come out in support of anti-gay protester Stephen Green, who was arrested at the Cardiff Mardi Gras for handing out leaflets condemning same sex relationships?
And explain why only recently Julian Leppert, the BNP councillor for Redbridge Borough, said about Mr Byrant’s Gaydar controversy, “It’s not a crime legally, but it’s a crime morally”, and then went on to say “What people do in their private lives is their business. But the problem is when they get militant and start promoting it in schools. We’re a family party with family values”
Really? Does that sound “gay-friendly” to you?
J mathews, you must think we’re all as big a fool as you are.
Re: comment above by Will
The BNP is not the SNP. Doh. They have no connection at ANY level!!!!!!!
The SNP (Scottish National Party) is the current ruling government in Scotland. It is a democratic, left of centre political party whose main aim is full restoration of indpendence for Scotland. I suggest you take a look at their website http://www.snp.org, and educate yourself. It is not homophobic or racist.
The BNP, an england based political party (the British National Party) is on the other hand an extremist right wing (neo fascist) party which has extrem racist and homophobic policies, which includes forced re-patriation of legal immigrants who have lived here all their lives.
LET ME REPEAT, THE SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY HAS NO CONNECTION TO THE RACIST HOMOPHOBIC BNP
As there are European elections in Scotland this week, where Labour are likely to lose out to the more popular (in Scotland) Scottish National Party, I guess some of the very distorted and misleading comments above ARE POLITICAL.
Re: the comment above by Will;
The Scottish National Party (SNP) in Scotland has NO CONNECTION WITH THE RACIST HOMOPHOBIC BNP FROM ENGLAND.
The current democratically elected Scottish government is SNP. The Scottish national party’s overall aim long term is to restore FULL independence for Scotland from English rule. It has been in existence for 75 years. It is a left of centre political party, which is NOT homopghobic, and those posting that the SNP is homophobic are either liars or stupid.
I reiterate, the Scottish National Party of Scotland has NO CONNECTION AT ALL to the homophobic racist BNP from England.
I suggest you check the Scottish National Party website (snp ‘dot’ org).
The Scottish National Party are expected to do well in Scotland at the European elections this week, and I can only suspect that some of the very distorted and misleading post other above are from other political parties supporters.
Get educated. The Scottish National Party (SNP) from Scotland has no connection at an level with the racist homophobic BNP in England.
I suggest you google Scottish National Party. Or try ‘Scottish Government’ for the official Government website from Edinburgh.
The Scottish National Party as a government actively support equality legislation for homosexuals, and the extension of hate crime laws to include sexuality. THEY ARE NOT HOMOPHOBIC, AND HAVE NO SIMILARITY OR CONNECTION WITH THE NEO- FASCIST RIGHT WING RACIST, HOMOHPOBIC BNP FROM EGNALND.
EGNALND DOES OF COURSE MEAN ENGLAND.
GRRRR! CAN’T TYPE WHEN I’M SO AAAANNNNGGGRRRYYYYYYY!!
The Offences (Aggravation By Prejudice) (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 09), which cover sexuality and disability will have a final vote in the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh on 3rd June. It is supported by the SNP (Scottish government) and the green party and liberal democrats.
google ‘scottish Parliament’ and click on ‘bills’ on the official Scottish Parliament website.
I hardly think a Scottish government (SNP) supporting such legislation can be called homophobic??
Labour, in 12 years of power have not agreed fully to all equality legislation – check the voting records of some of their MP’s – ahem, a certain Mr.Gordon Brown, perhaps?? He has chosen not to vote on almost all gay equality legislation – that is hardly what I would call active support.
Let me state once again, the Scottish National Party fights for restoration of FULL Scottish independence, and has no connection with the racist homophobic BNP of England.
More Gay trouble in Bonny SNP/Catholic country. Just Kick them all in the GAY GORDANS!
I was being facetious comparing the BNP and SNP, but it was lost on you.
Then let me be frank, there are some really strange similarities between the two parties, and as far as I can see, the SNP are no more homo-friendly than the BNP.
One example:- Brian Souter donated £500,000 to the Scottish National Party, and Mr Souter, previously funded the campaign to prevent the abolition of Section 28. Is THIS where the SNP wants to get its money?!?!? Very similar to the funding to the BNP.
Perhaps you can enlighten me.
And of course whilst on the subject of Catholic interest in politics, and influencing decisions, Let us not forget, the one and only Ruth Kelly of the Labour party who was until recently a member of the Labour government in London, is a member of the secretive OPUS DEI from the Catholic church.
Tony Blair, is a devout Catholic himself.
Will, you are talking nonsense. Get educated. Nobody is falling for your ‘spin’.
The Scottish national party, based in Scotland have no connection with the English racist, homophobic BNP, and you know it.
It is clear that will, posting above is a troll.
It is fact that the SNP have no policies in line with the BNP, and have no connections with the BNP. In fact the Scottish first Minister (SNP) has many times publicly criticised the BNP, and that is a matter of public record.
The SNP who are the democratically elected government of Scotland, are committed to restoring full Scottish independence. They are actively supporting gay equality legislation which will be voted on in the Scottish parliament on Wednesday 3rd of June. That’s this week, will. Hardly the actions taken by a homophobic party.
will, it is quite clear to me you are doing what some labour supporters in the past have tried to do, creat the impression in the minds of people that the SNP are somehow related to the racist BNP because of the similarity in names. You and I both know you are lying.
J Mathews – You are quite right about other parties not being 100% pro-gay rights and I know full well that Gordon Brown always seemed to be absent for gay rights votes in the Commons. I’m not trying to defend Labour over the SNP, but I made my comments above purely as the SNP are the party in Government in Scotland, and I believe that their actions can be seen as being homophobic. Take their main financial backer. Would any party take money from somone who was openley racist or anti-semitic? I doubt it, yet the SNP are quite happy to be funded by a man who spent a million pounds of his own money on a publicity stunt to try to keep an anti-gay law in place. As I said before, the SNP changed their bus regulation policy to suit that same donor just after he’d given them the money. Fergus Ewing and Rosanna Cunningham have spoken out against gay rights and both are Ministers in the Scottish Government. Now Fiona Hyslop, the Education Minister is saying that an anti-discriminatory law can be side-stepped just to keep the catholic church on side. Can I say again, I am NOT a member of any political party and I don’t even support one party over another. I know that all parties are hypocritical but I’m focusing on the SNP as they are the party in government in Scotland.
Anthony, I agree regarding the funding from Souter, I can still rmember his “we didnae vote fur it an wur no huvin it” rant at the time of his failed referendum.
But that as a given, let me ask you, does the fact that the SNP government will be actively supporting , The Offences (Aggravation By Prejudice) (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 09), which cover sexuality and disability this week, not tell you something? Is that the actions of a homophobic party??
It is fair to criticise individual decisions like Souter, but what made me angry was the labelling of the SNP as homophobic, when it clearly is not. It also made me angry at the stoooopid comparison made with the English based genuinely and openly homophobic, racist, fascist BNP.
You will know as well as I do that the SNP are not in the slightest similar to the BNP.
J Mathews – Yes, I know that the SNP are nothing to do with the BNP. I’m surprised that anyone can think so. The reason I described the SNP as homophobic was because the individuals I’ve mentioned are government Ministers. If the party leadership was truly pro-gay then why are these people given/allowed to stay in such postions. As for the Offences bill covering sexuality and disability, then anything that can improve the lives of LGBT (and disabled) people is to be welcomed. But it was a Green MSP who introduced this bill, and with the support of the other opposition parties (Lib Dem and Labour, I don’t know if the Conservatives are supporting this or not), then the minortiy SNP didn’t have chance at blocking it. Also, it isn’t purley a gay-rights bill, it does have the disabled element and they may not want to have gone against that. I’m not trying to say any other party is better than the SNP, I’m just disappointed and concerned that in a supposedly pro-gay party, there are so many instances of homophobia. As i say, I used to vote for the SNP.
I don’t think the SNP are homophobic, but I think it is disgusting that a government minister is colluding with the Catholic church to discriminate against gay people. The SNP are bit too close to the church for my liking. A few months ago Alex Salmond gave a speach regarding the importance of Catholic schools in Scotland. Important for what – encouraging sectarianism, homophobia, lack of sex education? I am not in any way anti-Catholic, most Catholics I know are extremely tollerant etc. but, for obvious reasons I am not a fan of the Catholic church and think that Catholic schools are extremely detrimental to society in Scotland.
I was never going to vote SNP but I definitely will not now!
Well, J Mathews, form your uber militant views and inability to answer a question, I can only assume you’re “a troll” for the SNP. But I have heard very little good about the SNP with regards to being gay friendly… if they’re so gay friendly, why accept money from Brian Souter, one of Britain’s biggest homophobes?
Still, I’m not Scottish, so I couldn’t care less what you vote, to be honest.
An interesting anomoly . . . Homosexuality was not decriminalised officially in Scotland untill 1979.
I not sure there is any connection with this per se and the SNP.
Worryingly the SNP’s Uturn on catholic adoption agencies is consistant with the conservatism of nationalistic parties. . .
John, I agree. But I’m open to being proved wrong in my perception, if J Mathews can show me what they HAVE done for gay rights.
The decriminalisation of homosexuality in Scotland actually happened in 1980, via section 80 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980 which was enacted on the 13th November 1980.
At that time, the Scottish parliament was still in adjournement, and the change was passed in the house of commons in London. Nothing to do with the SNP I’m afraid.
Back then, bills which affected Scots law had to be administered separately, as their is no such thing as British law, just English law, and the separate Scots law. Both were administered by Westminster at the time of decriminalising homosexuality.
As to proving what the SNP do for gay rights, let me say again, this very week in the Scottish parliament on Wed. 3rd June, the final vote will take place on The Offences (Aggravation By Prejudice) (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 09), which covers sexuality and disability, introduced by Patrick Harvie of the Green Party.
This Bill has been and will be supported by the SNP. In fact at all stages, it has been supported by ALL five parties in the Scottish parliament.
QUOOTE from will; Still, I’m not Scottish, so I couldn’t care less what you vote, to be honest”
I think that tells us everything we need to know.
re comment from david;
Labour led the Scottish government for eight years prior to the SNP winning the election two years ago. In those eight years, labour did not abolish catholic schools, rather they increased funding for them.
“I think that tells us everything we need to know.”
Does it really? Tell me you’re behaving like a child.
How about less of the hissy fits, and tell me why the SNP accepted a donation from a notorious homophobe, and why, according to the Sunday Herald, education Fiona Hyslop lobbied Whitehall for Catholic adoption agencies to get an “indefinite” exemption from the landmark legislation?
If you can’t, then don’t bore me with your stupid attacks.
Will, calm down and read the following very, very carefully. If you want I’ll help with the big words…
This Bill has been and will be supported by the SNP. In fact at all stages, it has been supported by ALL five parties in the Scottish parliament.
Great. I agree with you. Thats super. Then what’s the Pinknews article about? IS it true, or is it not? If its not, then where does that put the SNP?
Try. Answer. The. Question.
Is that clear enough, before you go BACK to the same point again and again?
Will, in all political parties you get differing viewpoints, but I tell you again, the consensus in the SNP is not homophobic. I can’t tell you anymore about the meeting in 2007, with Fiona Hyslop, as I wasn’t there. Don’t forget, the article came from a scottish newspaper, so we do not necessarily have all the context of the meetings in 2007, or the legislation background at the time.
I have clearly stated above, that I do not agree with money from homophobic souter, but let’s face facts, some of the donors to Labour, the tories and other parties are just as bigotted on race or sexuality or transgender issues. It does not mean those political parties themselves are homophobic.
I’ll say it again if you like, I was not happy that the SNP took money from Souter, but I know that they are not a homophobic party. If I thought they were, then I would not be defending them here, as I have no time for homophobia
Maybe you should take a wee look at the website of Alyn Smith MEP (SNP), and maybe you’ll get a better idea of things.
I’ll say no more, as we’re going round in circles.
Fair enough. I take back my SNP/BNP jibes.
J Mathews – You say that the SNP are not a homophobic party. Then why are these instances of homophobia allowed to go unchallenged? If the majority of members had been against the donation then surely it wouldn’t have been accepted? As for the collusion with the catholic church by Fiona Hyslop, why is she not being reprimanded by the party leadership? Why are Fergus Ewing and Rosanna Cunningham allowed to keep or been given ministerial jobs when both have publicly made anti-gay statments? If the majority of SNP MSP’s, MP’s, Councillors and party members are happy to let all thi sgo unchallenged then I can only call it as I see it, that the SNP is a homophobic party.
I know Labour don’t have a great record on faith schools. The main reason I don’t vote SNP is I don’t want independance for Scotland.
J Mathews thread 23.
Thanks for this information about the proceses of decriminalisation of homosexuality in Scotland.
With regards 1980 as the date . . . this is even more depressing than my 1979, and also an odd situation that Scotland had to wait over two decasdes for a change in the law.
All this TROLLS talk! Your all SILLY-Billys (as Dennis Healy used to say! You lot should wash your mouths out with soap and water and bare your bottoms for spanking you naughty boys!
Again, the voice of reason and sanity, Brian Burton, speaks from beyond the haze of his medication.
Who gave that freak a computer anyway? So far he has not written ONE sentence on this site without sounding like a compete lunatic.
There is for this case a very necessary measure of discrimination. NO religiously-based organisation should be allowed to supervise the adoption of children. Such groups are invariably inclined to organise adoptions on the basis of supernatural doctrines unrelated to children’s rationally assessed needs and the empirically demonstrated contexts in which they do well. This is as much art as science, of course – but withcraft does not help.
i notice even the nationalists here are not actually attempting to justify this little trick. One thing that hasn’t been raised is that the English Charities Commission rejected an English catholic charity’s attempt to pull this little trick as a blatant attempt to get round the law. (The exemption is meant for gay charities specifically helping gay people.)
If there is no means of holding the Scottish charity regulator to account for this then we should make sure that the new Equality Bill currently passing through Westminster (equality is not devolved, rightly as the increased religious influences in Scotland compared to England would give it a harder time) we should close this loophole. there will be the usual strangulated squawks from the Catholics and their allies on the other side of the religious divide, which it is safe to ignore.
I e-mailed my constituency MSP about this matter. Let’s hope something will get done, but I doubt it.
hmmm, perhaps I ought not to say the obvious, but are n’t Catholic and other religions entitaled to practicing their faith? I mean if it’s totally against their beliefs for them to directly give children to us then perhaps we should be tolerant even if their not going to be?
J Mathews (7):
The SNP is center-left and is secretly planing with the ultra-right-RCC “to avoid new legislation requiring religious adoption agencies to help gay couples”.
In other words the SNP is center-left and grows turnips on apple trees. Uh-Uh, OK, anything you say, J.
Harry several comments above;
regarding your statement ‘equality is not devolved’. I’m sorry, but it really depends what you mean. Scots law is ENTIRELY devolved. The Scottish parliament makes the law in Scotland (with very,very few exceptions like terrorism). Westminster only has control over a few issues.
Devolution has restored a lot of power to the Scottish parliament. So, as far as equality legislation goes, I’m sorry, but westminster does not have a say. It is decided by the democratically elected government in Scotland.
You don’t seem to understand what devolution means in reality;
In Scotland for example, the following are completely under the control of the Scottish parliament; health, education, transport, law and order, social services, to name just a few. To make it clearer, for example, the health secretary in london has no say whatsoever on the health policy in Scotland, whether it be for GP’s, dentists, doctors and so on. The pay and conditions are negotiated separately in Scotland by the health secretary from the Scottish government.
Last year for example, there was a row because the police in England did not get the pay award they were promised. In Scotland, the Scottish government chose to award the full pay rise to the police.
I would dispute the premise that religions have more influence in Scotland on politics, I mean you can’t really be serious saying that. Take a wee peak into the house of lords, and you’ll see it’s full of bishops and C of E bigwigs. They still say prayers every day in the house of commons for heavens sake!!
I could not agree more. Religion is nothing short of superstition, along the same lines as voodoo or devil worship. It’s all quite frankly nuts. I still can’t believe we still have state funded catholic schools in Scotland – but that has a very, very long history to why it happened. But it has done Scotland no good.
All relgigious schools are bad, as they are focussed on indoctrination and child brain washing. Those in favour of them, say they give better results, but that is deceptive, and is due to them being selective. If you only pick good pupils, you’ll always get good results.
To; J Mathews
Thanks for your comments on devolution but being a lawyer with an interest in constitutional affairs I do understand it :-)
paragrpah L5 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 (a very long schedule of all the reserved powers of the Westminster parliament in relation to Scotland reserves “equal opportunities” which is defined as “means the prevention, elimination or regulation of discrimination between persons on grounds of sex or marital status, on racial grounds, or on grounds of disability, age, sexual orientation, language or social origin, or of other personal attributes, including beliefs or opinions, such as religious beliefs or political opinions”.
So like (to take some subjects at random) weights and measures, abortion and the succession to the Crown, this is not a Holyrood matter
Religion in Scotland clearly has a LOT of influence if a government minister can actively help a catholic adoption agency to find a loophole in the law so they can actively discriminate against LGBT people. But then, the Scottish Parliament does start off the day by saying prayers, which just about says it all. If this issue is reserved to Westminster, then Jim Murphy (Scottish Secretary)ought to put Fiona Hyslop in her place. I completely agree about Catholic and all denominational schools, that they should be abolished. I went to a Catholic school and had no problems, but it’s the principle that Church and State should be seperate that matters here.
I find it profoundly depressing to hear that the Scottish Parliment begins the day with prayers.
Although I am still up beat about the benefits of the assembly for Scotland, it just feels a retrograde step to have religion so embedded in the parliments foundation.
What has happened to Scottish Enlightenment values in the assembly . . . Surely science reason and liberty is so much more intrinsic to a Scottish identity then religion.
You will not be surprised to learn that I have a copy of the Scotland act, and you and your ilk, are talking utter nonsense.
Funny how it isn’t mentioned anywhere on this site, thatThe Offences (Aggravation By Prejudice) (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 09), which cover sexuality and disability was passed by the Scottish parliament today (wed 3rd).
Anyway, the point is, the Scottish government and parliament are yet again pushing forward with legislation which Westminster has problems with.
Hey ho. I’m sure the likes of harry will still post some lies about it.
The Justice Secretary from the SNP Scottish Government, said regarding the above bill”Hate crime is an offence motivated by offenders’ hatred towards a core element of someone’s identity. There’s no place for that in a modern Scotland. It’s utterly unacceptable.”
Everyone got that? can’t remember Gordon Brown every saying anything similar.
Did everyone get that. It’s a quote from the SNP justice secretary.
While I’m pleased that this bill was passed, I’m not convinced that the SNP are gay-friendly. As far as I’m aware, ALL parties voted for this, therefore it would still have got through if the SNP or any one ather party had voted against it. So the SNP went along with it to look good! As for the quote by the Scottish Justice Secretary in J Mathews’s comment above, it’s a pity the SNP don’t worry about discrimnating against gay people when accepting money from homophobes or colluding with the catholic church.
I have just heard back from my MSP, who I e-mailed about regarding this matter of Fiona Hyslop colluding with the catholic church to get around the law. Apparently, my comments have been noted. I also e-mailed my MSP a few months ago about Strathclyde Fire and Rescue paying damages to their catholic fire fighter for discipling hiim when he refused to attend Gay Pride in Glasgow. I asked if it went against the Goods and Services (Sexual Orientation) law. Nothing was done then either. It seems pointless to make laws that are ignored and the people who made those same laws are happy for them to be ignored.
To the ever charming J Mathews.
I actually mistyped “L5″ for L2. The quote is otherwise accurate: equality law is reserved to Westminster. I would apologise for my slip of the finger only I am damned well not going to apologise to someone who calls me a liar.
Here for the doubting Thomas’s is the whole section. You can find it by adding “www” to this:
The exception refers in essence to the point that the Scottish ministers may encourage equality, but they may not regulate it:
Equal opportunities, including the subject-matter of–
(a) the Equal Pay Act 1970,
(b) the Sex Discrimination Act 1975,
(c) the Race Relations Act 1976, and
(d) the Disability Discrimination Act 1995.
The encouragement (other than by prohibition or regulation) of equal opportunities, and in particular of the observance of the equal opportunity requirements.
Imposing duties on–
(a) any office-holder in the Scottish Administration, or any Scottish public authority with mixed functions or no reserved functions, to make arrangements with a view to securing that the functions of the office-holder or authority are carried out with due regard to the need to meet the equal opportunity requirements, or
(b) any cross-border public authority to make arrangements with a view to securing that its Scottish functions are carried out with due regard to the need to meet the equal opportunity requirements.
“Equal opportunities” means the prevention, elimination or regulation of discrimination between persons on grounds of sex or marital status, on racial grounds, or on grounds of disability, age, sexual orientation, language or social origin, or of other personal attributes,including beliefs or opinions, such as religious beliefs or political opinions.
“Equal opportunity requirements” means the requirements of the law for the time being relating to equal opportunities.
“Scottish functions” means functions which are exercisable in or as regards Scotland and which do not relate to reserved matters.