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David Cameron voted worst politician of the year

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  1. vulpus_rex 28 May 2009, 4:35pm

    The fact that this poll found Gordon Brown the third best politician is hilarious.

    More than 70% of the country think the man is an appalling bad joke.

  2. Brian Burton 28 May 2009, 4:35pm

    The Pink News Editor gets my vote for allowing this wonderful ‘Pink News Comments’ forum to appear on my computer. I don’t have much to do with those named on this thread.

  3. I’m no tory but thats unfair. I could name many, much worse….

  4. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2009, 7:14pm

    Gordon Brown third is what does it for me as well. Can the Gay Times readership be that divorced from the average electorate?

    He has polled lower popularity as leader of the Labour Party than Michael Foot

  5. I would have voted Douglas Hogg myself – good to see he’ll be… de-moated after the next election :-)

  6. Usual perverse Gay Times poll, isn’t it? GT readers have a highly tuned sense of humour/irony.

  7. It just goes to show how completely out of touch so many gay people are. They just support “the self-appointed peoples party” whatever happens, and see the Conservative Party as slightly right of Atilla the Hun. With this blinkered state of mind, is it no wonder this country is so completely and utterly fucked?

    I’m not saying the Tories are the perfect party, but Gordon Brown is so totally inept, I seriously cannot think of a more suitable contender in the last fifty years that could even come close to winning this award.

    Yet the gays just continue to spout “my Grandfather voted labour, my Dad voted labour so I must do the same…”


  8. I vote Labour because I believe in what they stand for. They are by no means perfect but they are certainly the best available (hardly a ringin endorsement, I know!)


  9. Yeah, right, we’re twats, making you….?

  10. What exactly do they stand for these days – ecomonic collapse, corruption like we have never seen in British politics, the introduction of a near police state, deflation, spin, betrayal of all that the Labour party used to stand for?

    The list goes on and on and on, and none of it good. What

  11. I’m in the Green Party so have no sympathy for the Tories, but come one, how the hell is Dave worse than Iris Robinson??

  12. Now come on?

    What sick & twisted individual at Pink-News came up with that picture of David Cameron?

  13. Matt Sephton 29 May 2009, 7:49am

    Despite this poll, as Pink News highlighted in April in a representative opinion poll, more LGBT people said they would be voting Conservative (30%) over the other main parties (18% for Labour and the Lib Dems each) at the next election.

    The fact is that David Cameron has consistently spoken out in favour of LGBT issues, including supporting civil partnership legislation and backing plans to crack down on homophobic bullying. He also gave strong backing to action on hate crimes in the Criminal Justice Act.

    Two years ago, it was a Conservative MEP who launched the written declaration on homophobic bullying in schools to the European Parliament’s Gay and Lesbian Rights Intergroup.

    On the 30th June 2009, Margot James, openly lesbian Vice Chair of the Conservatives, and Prospective MP for Stourbridge is hosting an event at which David Cameron will be in attendance together with Ben Summerskill, Chief Executive of Stonewall, among others.

    The modern Conservative Party is a dynamic, forward-looking and inclusive Party and we have a significant percentage of LGBT councillors and prospective MPs across the whole of the UK.

    Whatever a Gay Times readers’ poll suggests, the Conservatives are more likely to be the Party forming the next Government and are in an excellent position to be able to further LGBT rights and freedoms in the UK.

  14. Iris Robinson has to be the worst closely followed by Gordon Brown – lets not forget that he was in charge of the countries coffers as Chancellor heading into this collapse, he took over as PM without ever being voted for by the population and now he is dithering about in charge like a fish out of water.

    If he really wants to clean up Parliament then he needs to start sacking MP’s and not paying them off to ‘stand down’ – Bring in the Serious Fraud Office and lets start locking them up as we would be if we swindled those sort of amounts of money from our employers (the British Tax Payers). And sorry, but the excuse that the payments were authorised by some third party does not hold water with me – they knew what they were claiming for was wrong and they were taking the piss!

  15. Does anyone even know what David Cameron’s policies are?????

    No, because he doesn’t specify them, that’s the trick!

    He’s exactly like Presisdent ‘Change’, sorry, Obama in the U.S. Obama very rarely specified his policies and instead made elaborate speeches referring to ‘Change’ and ‘Hope’ constantly. (Seriously, the man is and was all soundbites). ‘Hope’ for what? ‘Change’ what? Obama never specified, because those words mean exactly what YOU want them to mean and therefore you vote for him or atleast find him attractive, even though his plans are never specified in detail. It’s a very clever political technique. How can you oppose something that isn’t there? Or even have an opinion on it? It’s very transparent if you’re told about it but if not you’re then you’re one of the masses who falls for this ‘cult of personality’.

    Now Cameron is doing the same (albeit on a much smaller scale), spouting ‘change’ at every opportunity; when he never actually specifies what that is in detail. Coupled with his subliminal hand gestures learnt at media training (akin to Blair’s), this makes him a force to be reckoned with – even though we don’t actually know what he would do if he were elected because he never says.

  16. Mihangel apYrs 29 May 2009, 9:38am

    @Matt Sephton et al

    I wait to see with whom the Conservatives align themselves in the European Assembly; that WILL be significant.

    At present the Tories are saying the right things (with some mavericks, and some less than helpful votes in HoL and HoC), but their choices will be indicative of their intentions towards us.

  17. I know faires exist, the yeti is probably out there and aliens may one day visit us; but an honest Tory Leader?? Nah!

  18. Pumpkin Pie 29 May 2009, 10:19am

    Lady Gaga would be my choice for awesomest…awesome person of the year. She rocks. And is yummy. ~<3

    Funny how Obama got so high, seeing as how he’s been so quiet on LGBT issues… And I bet Cameron’s just getting flak for being the head of the Conservatives, rather than anything personal. I really don’t like the Conservative party, but Cameron’s not a bad guy.

    I would have voted Douglas Hogg myself – good to see he’ll be… de-moated after the next election

    ;) :D Nice.

    Now come on?

    What sick & twisted individual at Pink-News came up with that picture of David Cameron?

    Oh my word. Had I been eating my cereal at the time, I would have spat it out for laughter. Someone around here has quite the sense of humour, don’t they?

  19. Brian Burton 29 May 2009, 10:25am

    You are the biggest TWAT on the Pink News comment pages although you are too stupid to see it!

  20. I am surprised BJ wasn’t voted worst. Not only does he have a history of homophobic comments he has withdrawn funding from a number of important regeneration initiatives in the poorest parts of London, like the Thames Gateway bridge and the Greenwich Waterfront Transit.

  21. Dont forget Tories and Clause 28! Gay children are still suffering in our schools from bullying and will continue to do so for generations to come.

  22. Sister Mary Clarence 29 May 2009, 4:46pm

    Allen, they will indeed continue to suffer, Labour’s legacy of debt and economic mis-management will condemn millions of gay people to poverty, a lower standard of living and poorer life changes.

    Hopefully a new Conservative government can start to rrepair the damage

  23. What a complete and utter joke. I’ll admit I’m a tory, through and through. But, as others have said, it really shows how narrow-minded some of us gays really are. David Cameron is the first tory leader since John Major that actually looks like winning the next election, he has done loads in trying to recruit gay ppl into the party and consistently speaks out in favour of gay rights. So how can he be the worst? It seems to me he has been voted the worst just cos he is tory leader, which is totally unfair. A lot of readers obviously no nothing about what’s going on out there. How can he be worse than Iris Robinson? Was this poll done by labour supporters by any chance? And Obama the best – what has he actually done since hes been in power. He’s already done a massive u-turn on allowing gays in the military. What a joke this poll really is.

  24. Strange that, BBC News today reports house prices are recovering and the City says there are signs of recovery. Damn short recession, if that’s the case, must be a whole decade shorter than the one the cow thatcher subjected us to. Early days yet but I won’t waste my time looking for a retraction by the Tories on here about the handling of the economy by Labour over an American recession caused by Republican policies and greed which has affected countries the world over, regardless of their political hue. An American recession, I might add, caused by the policies of a political party whose financial policies don’t seem that different from those of the Tories.

    But to get back on topic, well, would you trust someone who can’t keep hold of his pushbike? Once is careless/stupid. Twice? Smacks of incompetence to me. What’s he going to be like with power, lose it to some hardline Tory?

  25. Stupid, naive, blinkered. Even managed to quote the “it started in america” line. How do people this thick have the vote?

    The country now needs to borrow more money this year than in the whole of the history of the bank of england’s 400 years put together and some moron thinks that a small increase in house prices means its over.

    Women starved themselves in prisons in the 1920s to give the intelligently subnormal the right to forgive Brown. Truly amazing.

  26. Haha. How did Thatcher cause a recession? She took over when Labour had the country in financial turmoil – not much has changed really. Its Labour’s borrowing and spending money we dont have that have made this mess much worse than it could’ve been. Experts have said this recession wont be over for a long time yet. Things always pick up slighly in recessions, but I bet you they’ll be down again in a few weeks or months. And how can anyone say Bush’s government was useless with the economy when Obama has given the US the biggest debt its ever had with his stimulus package? Some ppl clearly know absolutely nothing.

  27. Yes, Adam, some people do know absolutely nothing, in comparison to you who knows fuck all twice.

  28. Wossname, you’re clearly a commie sympathiser, or close to it, so how can you say I know nothing? Whenever left-wing governments see a problem they just throw money at it. Thats why we are in a worse mess than we needed to be. Obama has just given the US its biggest debt ever – these are facts! The economy was doing very well in 1997 and Brown took all the credit for what Ken Clarke had done. We can now see how useless with money he actually is, though. The fact is a tory government wouldnt have spent money we didnt have, like this government have done. And the point is here, anyway, about Cameron being the worst politican – which I dont think he is at all. How can Cameron be worse than Brown?

  29. The fact is, that your darling Cameron is having meetings with anti-Gay right wing groups in order to form a political alliance in the EU. So much for the caring sharing Tory party.

  30. What is it with some people? They think the only important criteria a political party should have is how they handle gay rights. We can be financially bankrupt, with rampant crime and immigration and the country on the verge of collapse, but it’s cool because they look after the gays.

    It’s pathetic. Yes, it’s good to have gay rights, but frankly there are a damn sight more important things a government should be capable of before that one comes up on the list. Labour supporters still continue to witter on about Thatcher and Section 28. May I remind some people that was in 1988 and a lot has changed since then. At least back then we didn’t have massive debts, rising employment and a totally corrupt and incompetent government responsible for it.

  31. Yes, thank you, Ron_N, a lot has changed and no thanks to the Tory party. Nowt wrong with “wittering” though. Seems to be a common past time across the political divide on here.
    Can we have a bit less harping about immigration, please, I don’t see the reasoning in throwing that into the ring, this country was built on immigration, from the Vikings, Normans, Romans and so on, all the way up to this present day, not to mention the influx of political refugees, all of which have helped shape this country. Soaring crime, let me see. Oh yes, how about giving these criminals a short sharp shock? That was the response of thatcher and whitelaw to the rampant crime of the times, yes, they couldn’t handle it even then. Yes, yes, I know we keep on about thatcher but, the thing is, barring Major, she was the last Tory leader of any real substance, d’y’see? A bit like talking about the Queens coronation but not mentioning the Queen. And by the way, back then, we had over three million unemployed, I was one of them, damn near lost my house, out of work for two years solid and all I got from the employment exchange was a course on how to write a CV. And frankly I don’t think there are many things more important than civil liberties and not just for Gays but for everybody, without them, money rules, and for the population as a whole, that’s bad news. Oh, sorry, country on the brink of collapse. Hmm, do you mean during the miners strike, or during the newspaper strikes or the poll tax riots? I seem to remember the country being on fairly dodgy ground thereabouts, ‘specially with the poll tax. Well, enough of my memories, time for bed.

  32. “I don’t think there are many things more important than civil liberties”

    I would therefore be delighted to hear your views on:

    Compulsory ID cards
    42 days detention without trial
    Right to peaceful protest
    Policemen killing innocent protestors
    Now required by law to record details of all phone calls and emails
    CCTV on every high street corner
    Speed cameras everywhere
    Retention of inccoent people’s DNA

    All of the above are a little bit inconsistent with your fatuous boasting about civil liberties.

    Do you actually know what the words mean?

  33. Wossname: I seem to remember it was Mrs Thatcher that took on the unions after Labour’s appalling “Winter of Discontent” and was the only politician with the balls to get this country back into some kind of shape. As for immigration, my town now has something like 5% indigenous population. I don’t see that as a “vibrant multi-cultural community”, I see it as a bunch of people taking what they can and not giving a flying toss about me or my country’s heritage. Meanwhile, our own government hasn’t got a fucking clue how many immigrants are actually here, has no policy on how to fix the problem, and is unwilling to bring in any legislation to control it.

    As for civil liberties, are you taking the piss? Vulpus Rex outlines many factors as to why this country is fast becoming a police state, all in the apparent name of prevention of terrorism. The levels of “Big Brother” type actions would leave me to think there was a suicide bomber on every street corner. Even Baghdad doesn’t have this amount of surveillance, speed traps or phone and internet monitoring. Meanwhile, real crime continues to rise with gun and knife crime everywhere, (which was virtually non-existent 20 years ago). There is not a single area this NuLabour hasn’t touched that hasn’t been affected by their anti-Midas touch.
    (Everything they touch turns to shit).

  34. Ok, I made myself a promise to ignore you but for what it’s worth.

    ID cards. Been compulsory in Europe for years. Don’t recall there being much of a problem with them over there. Aside from the questionable technology and fee I don’t really see how it affects your civil liberties.

    42 days retention without trial. Ever heard of internment The last Tory government had no problems with that or with extending the terrorist act endlessly. And as I recall, it was Thatcher who tried to deny the Irish terrorists the freedom to put their case to the press. “Oxygen of publicity” or some such nonsense. And the 42 days does not apply to every person in custody, as you well know.

    Right to peaceful protest. Where has that changed? Peaceful rallies are still held throughout London. And please don’t say the G2 rioting. I don’t call it a peaceful rally when protesters dress as Police and try to drive a Saracen armoured car through London towards the City. Now, as far as I know, Brian Haw is still there. The Tamil protesters seemed to be having their say, at least they were during the last few weeks when I’ve driven around Parliament Square despite there being some violence when protesters blocked the roads and the Police cleared them.

    Policemen killing innocent protesters. Not heard of Blair Peach then.

    Now required by law to record emails. It’s been happening for years, voluntarily by the ISPs and it’s not the contents, just the connections. Needs to be monitored closely, sure, but that’s what the Data Commissioner is for but virtually every cookie on your computer is a data miner and are much more invidious than than the proposed law.
    CCTV cameras on every High Street corner. I don’t think so but where they are they are successfully used to fight crime. What’s the problem. CCTV has been around for donkeys years in one form or another. Came in quite handy when they were looking for how the Islamic bombers did their work in London.

    Speed cameras everywhere. As long as they are sited correctly and used in traffic blackspots, I don’t see a problem. Roll on the deployment of average speed cameras. Could do with them on my sisters road where the loons consistently drive at motorway speeds in a 40 limit.

    Retention of DNA. That has been ruled illegal under the European Court. Not a practice I have been happy about but I don’t feel I have to blindly support every policy a particular party has.

    But do tell, you ignored the fact that Cameron is meeting (today) with Homophobic right wing political parties from Eastern Europe, who are doing all they can to suppress the rights of the LGBT communities in their own countries, in order to form an alliance inside the European Parliament. Just how do you square that with your previous statements of how the Tory party has changed? Doesn’t look so different from where I’m standing.

  35. RobN, you talk so much rubbish you should recycle it. Just how old are you as a matter of fact. Knife crime has been an ever present factor in British villainy. The present influx of guns can hardly be blamed on Labour, that started when the Wall came down and the former Eastern European Soviet states flooded the west with smuggled weapons. That’s a fact, so don’t give me any of your old nonsense about how it’s all Labours fault. As for the rest of your rant against immigrants, why don’t you go and enrol with the BNP, they sound much more your thing. Personally, I won’t reading any more of your racist whining, to be honest. Your country my arse! You’ll be quoting Churchill next.

  36. I have just unsubscibed to Pink News. The comments section is not related to LGBT issues it has just become a blog for bigots and obsessed ranters. I no longer want to subscribe to the Vulpus and Sister Mary Show with special guest star RobN. I bet you lie awake at night frothing about Gordon Brown and the Labour Party you bunch of self obsessed saddo’s. All the LGBT issues in the world that affect Gay people and it’s the same old rant. Hope you lie awake tonight frothing because I will not be reading your comments back. It will be the same old angry bigotted rant anyway that I’ve read from you many times before.

  37. Sister Mary Clarence 30 May 2009, 3:11pm

    Cheers then Ian, nite.

    Any chance of you moving on soon wossname. Didn’t think the Labour party had so much much now to pay trolls to take over blogs and news sites, or are you now one of the student worksforce doing it for nothing.

    Clearly you have no idea about Britain in the 70s under Labour with inflation at 25%, the power cuts, the three day week, because the factories and offices couldn’t open with no electicity. The shit life we all had.

    Labour had a good run through, the spun and lied their way through more than a decade, slowly bankrupting us.

    I for one am eagerly awaiting Labour’s next term when they are going to require us all to work until we’re 84 before we get our f*cking pensions. I’m anticipating this is going to be coupled with the announcement of 2 million news jobs in the House of commons fees office

  38. Yeah, I didn’t think it would be long before you threw your hat in the ring. Nothing like attacking the person and ignoring the questions. Tell me, how do YOU feel about cuddly fluffy Cameron getting friendly with the right wing anti Gay groups over there? Come on, after all you and your mates on here have said about the changed Tory Party. Why is Cameron forming a political alliance with homophobic Eastern Europeans? Don’t give me your usual shit about the economy and the usual personal attacks. Tell me how you square Cameron’s palling up with homophobes in order to create a political alliance in the European Parliament with his efforts to attract the LGBT community to the Tory ranks.

    Oh, and yeah, I remember the 70’s. I remember Heath.

  39. Wossname:
    There are none so blind as those that will not see.
    The present influx of guns and knives “have been an ever-present part of British villainy”. No mate. If someone had been caught with a shooter 30 years ago they would have got 10 years. The perpetrators now are not the Kray twins, but 14yo black hoodies that fall out over “being given a funny look”. Meanwhile only one in ten is jailed for possession.

    CCTV and speed cameras are there to make money, pure and simple. It has been proven over and over that accidents have not been reduced, and whenever there is a crime committed, strangely, the damn things are pointing in the opposite direction.

    And there you go again, just like all the other lefties, if you question immigration policies, you are immediately branded a racist, and “should join the BNP”. That Labourite trick of forcing people into a guilt trip doesn’t work any more sunshine. 75% of this country wants you and your unelected leader OUT.

    How FUCKING DARE YOU accuse me of racism! I am not a racist, I a patriot who believes in his country whilst having to watch wankers like you sytematically attempt to demolish it and everything it represents piece by piece. And dont even go there about Churchill. 18yo kids flew and often gave their lives in the Battle of Britain to preserve the way of life that you and your sycophantic cronies now enjoy.

    Show some fucking respect!

  40. vulpus_rex 30 May 2009, 7:10pm

    Ian – bye bye then. Find yourslef a nice cosy little website where everyone has the same smug, consensual left wing views and there is nothing to challenge your little bubble world view.

    Wossname – thanks taking the time to articulate your views, I disagree with all of them, but will focus on just one reply for the sake of brevity.

    Internment – yes I remember it and agree it was wrong but two wrongs don’t make a right and just because Thatcher did it does not make it acceptable now.

    AS for David Cameron meeting right wing groups who are homophobic – Well you say yourself that you don’t agree with everything the party you support does, if this be the case then he should stop.

  41. I won’t deny I am a Thatcherite but, seriously, why are we mentioning Thatcher? This isnt relevant to David Cameron being worst politician of the year. Although, since we are all doing it, people have already mentioned what mess the country was in before Thatcher took over. The Labour/Lib Dem Alliance then was as useless as the Labour government today. Everybody goes on about the unemployment figures – the unemployment figures are bad now. But at least we had one of the best economies in Europe then. But wossname will know that I disagree with every single one of his views. I don’t care about Labour’s pathetic stats about crime going down. Crime isnt going down, less people are just reporting it – that’s the difference. And is it any wonder because nobody has any faith in the police anymore. Kids seem to be getting stabbed everyday. Are you telling me this has always happened – crap! And as for gay rights, Thatcher voted in favour of decriminalising homosexuality – a big homophobe then. Yeah Section 28 was brought in, but the majority of the country actually supported it. Yeah some tories are homophobic, but this is through ignorance as opposed to hate. Boris Johnson has come out with plenty of homophobic comments in the past, but now he’s appointing gays has his deputies and gonna gay pride. And as for civil liberties, the biggest civil liberty going is being able to live your life as you want to and not have the government interfering – Thatcher stood for this and conservatives stand for this. I am firmly against ID cards cos this is not some dictatorship where you need ID cards im your own country. We should try securing the borders better and not having expensive ID cards, that will do nothing to stop terrorism or illegal immigration. Like I said, typical left-wing government throwing money at a problem. But if us tories are chumming up with anti-gay ppl then sobeit. You have to look at the wider picture. Tbh, gay rights are not my top priority atm or ever. But if you have listened to David Cameron’s speeches or the conservative party manifesto, you’ll see we are nothing like the BNP and are encouraging gays in the party. Alan Duncan and Nick Herbert are both gay for crying out loud. Before the cabinet reshuffle, we had more gays in the shadow cabinet than any other party – including Labour. But seriously wotsname, your view of the world through rose-tinted spectacles is typical of most lefties and is unsurprising. Cant wait for the next election though, or even Thursday. Lmao.

  42. Right on Adam, a man after my own heart! At least many of us are open to suggestion or change, but people like Wossname still spout the same old crap they have been spouting for the last 30 years. Thatcher..blah Section 28… blah snobs…blah fox hunting… blah

    These people are so like the politicians they support. “I didn’t do anything wrong”, “I just followed the rules” etc etc. Instead of just toeing the party line like a sheep, try examining the facts and look at whats going on in the real world. I’m not saying be a Tory, there are many alternatives and ideas, but for fuck’s sake, stop ignoring the elephant in the room. NuLabour are total and utter SHITE.

    (Oh, and for the record, I am not a Tory)

  43. Since nobody has addressed MY earlier point I clearly feel a sense of victory.

    None of you know what Obama’s policies are and none of you know what Cameron’s are.

    P.S anyone who is gay and votes Tory is seriously misguided.

  44. Lezabella, you just look at the tory manifesto – that tells you what his policies are. Pretty simple really. And lezabella a recent poll suggested more gay people would vote tory than labour or the lib dems – so a lot of people are clearly misguided. If you told a democrat supporter that 100 years on their leader would be black they’d have had you shot. Get with the time seriously – this isnt the 1980’s anymore x

  45. Oh dear, Robn, did I strike a nerve? I’ll accuse you all day long about being a bloody racist. Call yourself a patriot? Do0n’t call me a wanker, there’s a dear. But, don’t YOU dare tell me about 18 year olds climbing into planes and going off to fight the Nazis. You might want to get the relevant history book out and find out what would have happened if the Poles, Yanks, Canadian, Israelis and god knows who else was willing to serve had not got into those planes and fought just as hard against the Nazis and died just as bravely as our home grown pilots. You should take the time to read the roll of honour, should be sobering stuff for the likes of you. By the way, let’s not forget that Churchill was half yank. You think plucking one battle out of historical context makes the argument? I do show my respect to those that fought, not just in that war but every war, including the Falklands and the mess we’re in now. And don’t come the old soldier with talks of mate and shooters, doesn’t wash with me, old son.

    But while we’re talking of history, a history that defines us as a people and as a nation, it’s the same history that forms our opinions when it comes to today and that includes talking about thatcher, why should we not talk about thatcher? Arguably the most divisive prime minister this country has ever seen. And after all, people talk of the present Labour government, but that’s history as well. You can’t exclude one part at the expense of another.

    As for others on here who say so what about Cameron getting pally with homophobes, LGBT rights have never been at the top of my list, unbelievable, what on earth are you doing on here? Have a little read on the Searchlight website before your desire to chase a pound coin into the gutter blinds you to what these people are like. You are either Gay, Lesbian, Bi or Trans on here or a troll, I’m assuming you’re the former, and that is what defines you as a person. It’s part of you, part of your being and to suppress that and to ignore it or deny it lessens you as a person. I find it shameful and disgraceful that your desire to chase that pound blinds you to the filth that you find in every gutter. When Cameron meets with these people it validates them and it validates their political views, and in amongst those views are the suppression of the rights of LGBT people in their respective countries. Enjoy spending that pound, won’t you. It’s going to cost someone somewhere their rights.

    I mean, I just don’t get it. This website delivers relevant news from all over the world about the LGBT community. Usually, sadly, it recounts instances of the suppression of those people’s rights. Sometimes it’s more than just the suppression of their rights, it’s the beatings and murder that goes with that suppression. Just what are you doing on here if all that means so little to you? Why are you bothering at all?

  46. Worth a read

  47. You’ll just have to click on my nick to read the story. Shame this site has problems with web addresses

  48. So let me get this right wossname. You’re quite happy to have a PM f**k up the rest of the country as long as he supports gay rights? You haven’t got a clue. I’m against gay adoption and I’m against gay marriage, does that make me a gay homophobe? A child needs a mother and a father, not two guys or 2 women. It’s just selfish. And marriage is for straight people, not gay people – so why bother to refer to it as a marriage? It’s a civil partnership. Yeah, I’m gay, but gay rights is not my top priority, why should it be? You think I’d have voted for Brian Paddick in the London elections just cos he was gay – Nooooo! You weigh up everything and all in all I’m a tory and I’ll continue to vote for them and continue to be a member. I’m looking forward to thursday, I really am. Apparently all the left-wing parties are set for bad results – music to my ears. Lmao.

  49. While I have every contempt for Sinister Mary, and Vulpine Rover, and disbelieve Cameron capable of tackling the economy, crime, liberty OR equality (certainly not in a way that would make our lives any better), I don’t really think he is worse than Iris Robinson. There are many more nasty tories than Cameron; Anne Widdecombe, Andrew Selous spring to mind in recent Exeter homophobia alone. Cameron is being all things to all people; a regular Tony Blair clone really. While this is sinster in its own right, he has not really demonstrated the particular homophobia of his tory compadre’s voting records and bills.

    Not yet…

  50. Adam – as previous posters have already outlined, Cameron is seeking to allign himself with seriously homophobic parties just to gain votes. Many Tories voted AGAINST civil ceremonies. Coupled with the fact that Cameron personally, and a lot of other Tories voted against IVF rights for lesbians. What part of that do you not comprehend???

    The Tory manifesto is there but Cameron very raarley reiterates it or it’s policies because they’re fucking awful – cuts on public spending to facillitate tax cuts for the rich. NHS and schools go down the drain again, like they did last time the Tories were in.

    So yeah, I think that shows how gays who vote Tory ARE mis-guided (as is anyone who remembers last time they were in) and have clearly fallen for this PR trick of a man.

  51. Pumpkin Pie 1 Jun 2009, 3:12pm

    A child needs a mother and a father, not two guys or 2 women.

    Proof, please! Oh wait, there is none. Nah, I’ll humour you – see if you can find me some. Tee-hee!

    And marriage is for straight people, not gay people – so why bother to refer to it as a marriage? It’s a civil partnership.

    Why is it only for straight people? Why can’t same-sex couples have the same rights?

    PS: Spam filter code for this post is ashamed country. I love that thing, I really do. Always so insightful.

  52. Actually, Adam, I’m not content with the economy being fucked up as you so charmingly put it but I’m quite happy that it isn’t all the fault of the Labour government. If you google for it, you’ll even find your mate Cameron apologising for it. Yeah, bit of a bugger that one, isn’t it.

    I don’t know where marriage came into all this but for your information, I have happily been in a CP for 5 years now, I’ve no problem with it though I do see the argument that if heterosexuals can marry in a civil ceremony in a Register Office then why can’t everyone. I don’t give a stuff about church marriage or the church for that matter. I don’t agree, either, with your views on raising children. Tell me the difference between two Gay men or women raising a child and a single hetero man or women doing the same? There isn’t one, there’s just one more of the same gender. Unless you’re of the opinion that Gay men are likely to subvert the child’s true sexual orientation or some such rubbish. An argument many find distasteful and spurious.

    Right, now we’ve got that little detour out of the way, judging by your post you have no qualms about a homophobic bunch of Europeans jumping into bed with Cameron. The same political parties that have taken steps in their respective countries to denounce homosexuality as evil, have repressed the rights of Gay people and have expressed the aim that they intend to carry on doing so. This includes violence towards those Gay folk because the thugs will take their lead from their rulers. For me, that would be an untenable position to take. Obviously for you, you don’t give much of a stuff about anyone else so you’re quite relaxed about it. “I’m alright, Jack.” is probably the phrase needed here. Just don’t pootle over to Poland any time soon, or at least, don’t tell em you’re a poof!

    You know, with all this hate for Brown and Labour, I’m betting that you’ve taken a fair ol hit in your lifestyle and you’re looking for someone to vent your anger against. Well, there, there, diddums.

    By the way, I shouldn’t be too cocky about the Euro vote this Thursday, it’s not just Labour who have a lot to answer re the expenses row or the economy. The Telegraph hasn’t done anyone any favours with the timing of the expenses row but you go and vote for the eastern Eruopeans, because that’s what you’ll be doing, and I’m sure they’ll be laughing their own arses off if the knew a Gay man has voted them into power once Cameron gets into bed with them.


  53. Wossname, a child needs a mother and a father and I will stick by that statement. I couldn’t give a toss if the child was gay, but I don’t necessarily believe two gay parents would make the child gay anyway. But, it’s just plain selfish on their part. That child is gonna grow up confused and be bullied continually. If you think I’m in a minority with these views then you’re quite wrong. I know loads of gays with similar views and they certainly aren’t tories.
    And we all know the views of East European countries, baring the Czech Republic, on gay people. I am of Polish descent for crying out loud. Being part of the USSR for so long cant have helped though. The USSR’S record on gay rights was ‘slightly’ worse than the 1980’s tories I think you’ll find. Homosexuality in Russia wasn’t even legalised till 1993, after the breakup of the USSR. Also why do you seem to think that the other parties are squeaky clean on gay rights? Ruth Kelly, rememeber her? Well she consistently voted against gay rights legislation, and that’s a labour cabinet minister. Not so long ago we had more gay ppl in our cabinet than Labour or the Lib Dems. I dont even think the Lib Dems have one gay senior member. I could be wrong. Boris Johnson has a gay man as his deputy. Margaret Thatcher voted to decriminalise homosexuality. Why do you seem to think us tories are on a par with the BNP or something? Part of our party conference this year involves gonna a gay bar on Canal Street, 700 guests and a senior cabinet member speaking – sounds really homophobic. But seriously dont pretend Labour are any different. Ken Livingstone is supposedly pro-gay yet consistently invited arab diplomats, with a history of gay right abuses, to London. Jackie Smith allowed a reggae singer, who has repeatedly called for gays to be killed, to perform.

    Lezabella and Pumpkin Pie, yeah some tories are homophobic – we know, so our some labour members. But we have 2 senior cabinet members who have entered a civil partnership. If we were that homophobic why would we have gay people in the cabinet or even in the party? And yeah we voted against IVF rights for lesbians – good on us! I’ve already said that children need a mother and a father, Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. And yeah we wanna cut public spending – that’s ‘wasteful’ public spending. In comparison to the spendaholic attitude of this government which has left us with the biggest debt in our history. Just like Obama has given the US its biggest debt in their history. Is there a pattern forming, left-wing governments leaving countries with big debts? And we are for tax cuts for everybody, not just the rich – so don’t kid yourself. And NHS and schools going down the drain? Are you having a laugh? Again the NHS has the biggest debt in its history – that’s cos of this labour government. Or is that the conservatives fault as well? And as for schools, we have more kids leaving school unable to do basic maths and english than any other country in europe. My sister has all A’s in her A-levels, yet is struggling for funding for uni cos we apparently earn too much. And we certainly arent rich or middleclass for that matter. This is in comparison to her bf who is doing really badly but gets everything paid for cos his mum is on benefit. These are the policies of a labour government and policies which I am dead against. And how can you say what we would do if we aren’t even in power? Or are you telepathic? Seriously, get a tardis and materialise in 2009, cos you’re talking as though its 1979 – although what a good year that was. Lmao x

  54. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Jun 2009, 4:49pm

    Just to clarify to EVERYBODY – the Tories did not vote again IVF therapy for lesbians – they make up only a tiny percentage of the IVF treatments in this country.

    The Tories were in favour of children having (positive) male role models in their lives – a much researched topic and invariably it is found that children of both sexes benefit from them , but particularly boys. The absence of such positive role models often resulting in the likes of various homophobic musicians being looked up to by vulnerable kids.

    There is masses of research that makes this point and its cheap and lazy reporting that has perpetuated this crap about voting against lesbians accessing IVF.

  55. Lezabella 1 Jun 2009, 5:54pm

    Adam – ‘WE’??? Oh so you’re actually an MP now are you? Ha ha! :D

    “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” – That is the single most, boring, and predictable thing anyone can say when using the Bible as an excuse to take away the rights of homosexuals regarding adoption.

    If you believe the Bible, and indeed Adam and Eve, then you must be aware that they must have had children, which in turn must have had incestuous relationships with eachother or indeed their mum and dad i.e Adam and Eve; for the human race to continue. Therefore you must think incest is OK. Either that or you’ve never heard of Charles Darwin, or things called ‘di-no-saurs’ which prove the Bible is fairy stories.

    Anyways, back to politics. 1979 is completely different to now.

    You must have a selective memory of what the NHS used to be like years ago, remember patients dying in corridors do you? Sorted out through borrowing or not, it needed this after years of Tory neglect. Why have Labour had to spend so much??? Because of years of Tory cuts.

    As for your sister, I had to pay tuition fees too because my parents earned over the limit. That is one of the worst policies from Labour……but it hardly ranks up there with the Belgrano, Miner’s and Nurse’s strikes. This country was left in a shambles. And it has taken 10 years of Labour control to try and fix it.

    You can only say ‘oh they’re in the past’ because Labour won 3 terms which obviously means it’s in the past; but we all know the Tories are still the same nasty-bastard-look-after-the-rich party.

    And it’s only after this world-wide recession, are you all now beginning to pipe up. Prior to this recession our economy sustained the largest period of growth under, yep, Labour!

    Spouting things like ‘Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve’, can I ask, are you even gay????

    If not then why the hell are you here?

  56. Lezabella, don’t patronise me. I’m not an MP, but I’m a member of the conservatives, hence the ‘we’. And no I dont believe in the bible, I believe in darwins theory. And the economy was as its best for a long time in 1997 and Brown just continued the work Ken Clarke had done, but took all the credit for it. And just out of interest, what’s wrong with spending in your means – which is a tory policy. Surely thats better than throwing money at a problem like Labour and getting the country into a financial mess. We may have had growth, but now the economy is in a worst state that it would have been under a conservative government. And whats the obsession with Belgrano? We were at war with Argentina and we sunk one of their ships. Your point? And as for the country being in a shambles, so what’s it like now then? We’re the laughing stock of Europe – most teenage pregnancies, most children leaving school without basic literacy and mathematical skills, kids being stabbed everyday, scroungers claiming benefit left, right and centre; taxes going up day by day, biggest debt we’ve ever had, superbugs etc. in hospitals, nhs with biggest debt its ever had, god knows how many illegal immigrants roaming freely, bans on junk food and smoking like some dictatorship. Do I really need to go on? And again patronising me about my sexuality. Yes I am gay. But that doesnt mean I dont have values and principles. And kids need a mum and a dad. Psychologists have confirmed kids grow up better in stable families. It’s just plain selfish. Kids need a male and female role model – and that doesnt mean some camp ass and a manly bloke or some chick and a butch lesbian x

  57. Actually, Adam, the tripe you’ve just come out with, in response to mine and other posts saves me from having to make any further reply. Your ranting has said it all.

  58. Wossname: I totally agree. Adam was erudite, succinct and got it in a nutshell. I suspect the reason why you wouldn’t offer a reply is that Adam has got you, (and Leftybella), on the ropes.

    Oh, and Lezzie: The Belgrano went down with all hands, but that pales into insignificance at Tony Blair instigating an illegal war in Iraq, and the interminable arse-licking of Dubya anywhere the USA wanted to go. I suggest you shut your trap sharpish before you get a major whopping for your hypocrisy. Trust me, anything questionable the Tories have done, you can sure as hell find a Labour example ten times worse.

  59. Haha. Too right RobN. They have nothing left to say. Looks like the tories have had the last word – as always x

  60. “a child needs a mother and a father and I will stick by that statement. I couldn’t give a toss if the child was gay, but I don’t necessarily believe two gay parents would make the child gay anyway. But, it’s just plain selfish on their part. That child is gonna grow up confused and be bullied continually. If you think I’m in a minority with these views then you’re quite wrong. I know loads of gays with similar views and they certainly aren’t tories.”

    The evidence is not with you. Children of gay couples actually do grow up in happy stable environments, just like children of straight couples.

    In any case, bullying is being stamped out, among other things by telling school kids that some people have different types of families. There is nothing ‘selfish’ about bringing a young child into the world at all. A pathetically ignorant statement, and in fact wicked, to say that a child of a gay couple is effectively, is better off dead.

    I don’t think Ken Clarke can claim all the credit, since we hapened to be reaping the benefits of the global, internet economy and the opening up of east europe and other emerging markets. Gordon Brown of course also squandered huge sums of telecomms and privatisation windfall monies. AS for education, indeed it is a shambles – 50 science faculties closed since 1997; but you have seen nothing yet. India has 400,000 science / engineering undergraduates, and innovation centres are moving out there. The Chinese copy everything from DVDs to printing presses, perfect down to the last cog. And over here, everybody wants to do good for nothing desk jobs like being consultants, lawyers (cf J Dyson speech, Dimbleby lecture, Dec 2004), rather than getting hands dirty in a lab. That has to change if we are to be taken seriously.

  61. Adam I realise you have principles, I wasn’t disputing that; my point was how could you support a party that is actively seeking to allign itself with homophobic European right-wingers all for the sake of a few seats? A party, with a significant minority against civil ceremonies?

    I’m not ‘obsessed’ with the Belgrano. Mentioning it once is not an ‘obsession’. It was yet another example of what the Tories did last time they were in power. Along with closing the mines, thumping Liverpool because of it’s left-wing council, the NHS in a severe state of rot due to lack of funds, 1 in 10 unemployed, nurses marching on London, poll tax. Sinking a ship that was turning away is the tip of the ice berg to what Thatcher did. And everyone knows that more asylum seekers et al were allowed in under Michael Howard’s stewrdship.

    As for mentioning Iraq, as you all know, the Tories were very much behind Tony Blair, with many, many Labour MPs against – not to mention their supporters.

    Will I ever forgive or trust the Tories? I would like to say yes, but my heart says no. When you’re from an area of the country that was completely shit on by them last time (aided and abetted by the London Press might I add) it’s hard to forget. Only under Labour did my city recover.

    As for the economy, as I said before, this is a world-wide recession; not a Labour made one.

    If you believe in Darwin then why say ‘Adam and Eve, not Adam and

    And RobN, who the fuck are you to tell me to shut my trap? Winnet.

  62. “Tories set to create boom in Islamic schools”

    By John Roberts Education Correspondent and Tom Smithard Political Correspondent
    SCORES of religious state schools could be set up in Yorkshire by parents, local communities or religious groups under a Tory government with “formidable checks” in place to stop the spread of extremism.

    The Conservatives want to make it easier for parents, charities and trusts to set up their own new schools to meet the needs of local communities.

    Shadow Schools’ Secretary Michael Gove told the Yorkshire Post his party would welcome the creation of new religious schools and accepted that the policy could lead to an increase in Islamic state schools being funded in areas of West Yorkshire.

    However he dismissed fears that such a move could lead to further segregation or extremism in the region.

    In a wide-ranging interview Mr Gove also appeared to back down from the Conservatives’ official position on grammar education, that while no new grammar schools would be set up there would be a “grammar stream in every subject in every school”.

    He refused to say that remained Tory policy but instead said: “Children will generally be streamed by ability across schools.

    “The reality is that parents who want to can send their children to an independent Islamic school, can send them to madrassahs for religious teaching after school and many pupils will be attending schools where de-facto segregation already exists.

    “We want to meet the rights of parents to give their children a faith-based education in accordance with their Islamic beliefs while at the same time ensuring that these schools are properly run and promoting the values of a modern Britain.


    See the rest of the article in ther yorkshire post. So there you have it, the Tories are just as bloody stupid as Labour on education.

  63. “Oh, and Lezzie: The Belgrano went down with all hands, but that pales into insignificance at Tony Blair instigating an illegal war in Iraq”

    At what point did I mention the word “obsessed”?

    They closed the mines because they were uneconomic and being screwed by Arthur Scargill. The unions had this country in a stanglehold, and may I remind you of three day weeks, power-cuts, bin bags strewn through the streets etc etc. It was the Tories that cleaned up the mess that Labour had left behind.

    They “thumped” Liverpool Council because of the corruption and devious goings on of Derek Hatton and his lefty cronies.

    Tony Blair blatantly *LIED* about WMD’s “launching in 45 minutes”. That is why he got all-party support. That soon vapourised when we all discovered it was a pile of bullshit. So much so, one guy topped himself.

    This country was already dipping into major financial trouble long before it ballooned into a global issue. I seem to remember a certain G. Brown as chancellor selling off all our gold stocks when it’s price was at it’s lowest for a pile of worthless Japanese bonds.

    Please check your facts instead of hurling around Mandelsonian spin.

  64. Lezabella 2 Jun 2009, 1:26pm

    RobN- Blair lied. And the Tories fell as hard as Labour for it.

    I’m not a fan of Mandelson, Blair, Brown or any of those. Harriet Harman is probably the most attractive face of Labour along with David Miliband.

    Look, I thankyou for the debate but I am only going to repeat myself as are you.

    I have different values and feel that (at it’s heart) Labour represent mine more. I believe in equality for all, (and being a lesbian that it especially a strong point), I believe in winter fuel allowances for the elderly, funding for the NHS and education.

    The only thing I shall say about the Conservatives is that their stance regarding the EU and the Lisbon Treaty is absoloutely spot on. Unfortuntaely that one policy is not enough to out-weigh the previous Labour ones.

  65. Pumpkin Pie 2 Jun 2009, 2:32pm

    The Tories were in favour of children having (positive) male role models in their lives

    Eh? How does one legislate such a thing? What exactly was this legislation they were voting on, then?

    Psychologists have confirmed kids grow up better in stable families.

    Indeed they have. They also found that having mixed sex or same sex parents made no difference. Another thing they found is that children who have grown up in institutions, without a family, tend to do much worse in life than those who had a family upbringing. It seems utterly cruel and selfish for people to want deny these children the opportunity of having a stable home, just because of backwards cultural principles which directly contradict logic, morality and psychological study.

  66. Lezabella, I’m from Yorkshire – so hardly a hotbed of tory support, yet I’m voting for them. And yeah at least you admit we’re the only major party offering a referendum – surely that’s the most democratic thing you can do? And I agree with your statement – “Unfortunately that one policy is not enough to out-weigh the previous Labour ones”. This is exactly why being pro-gay is not gonna make me vote Lib Dem or Labour, cos I disagree with nearly all their other policies. AdrianT, I’m from Yorkshire and I went to an all-boys catholic school and I really don’t see the problem with faith schools? If parents want their kids to go to a faith school then whats the problem? All this rubbish about segregation is nonsense. And Im certainly not religious btw. What angers me more is all this rubbish about faith schools having to accept 10% of kids that are from a different faith. What absolute rubbish. And when did I say kids are better off dead than having gay parents? Don’t you dare put vicious words like that in my mouth. I said kids are better off in a stable, straight relationship. Although, actually, I have no problems with a single gay man or single lesbian bringing up a kid on their own – just not as a couple. And it is nothing to do with the fact they might turn gay – that is crap I agree. Although, being bent, why would that bother me anyway? But I just dont think being brought up by two people of the same sex is right, if theyre a couple anyway. And Pumpkin Pie, gay relationships are never stable, though, thats the point. Its different for lesbians I agree. But I dont trust gay men as far as I can throw them.

  67. Andy & Steve 2 Jun 2009, 4:56pm


    Drop us a line when the 21st Century reaches you up there in the North.

    In the meantime save yourself some stress and keep the bigoted comments to yourself.

    For everyone else – Adam is a Tory – who is seriously going to vote for that kind of blinkered world view ?

    Remember: A Tory vote in the Euro Elections is a vote for the Far Right (just ask Dave why he’s aligning the Tory party in Europe with extreme right wing parties who hate gay people – even gay elephants, it seems).

    One World. One Chance. Vote Green.

  68. Andy and Steve, please explain what bigoted comments I said? And vote Green? – I’d rather vote Labour. The Greens are just the Lib Dems with more emphasis on the environment. And a vote for the conservatives is not a vote for the far-right – what rubbish. I think you’re mistaking us for the BNP. Yeah we are aligning with some ‘centre-right’ east european parties – not far-right. And yeah some of them do have anti-gay views. It is eastern europe though, doesnt really matter what party you belong to. But as I’ve said before, being part of the USSR cant have helped. But, on that note, Ken Livingstone invited many well-known homophobic arabs to London whilst he was mayor. Jackie Smith has allowed some homophobic muslim leaders and reggae singers, who advocate killing gay people, to come here. What’s the difference? And your comment “For everyone else – Adam is a Tory – who is seriously going to vote for that kind of blinkered world view?” is a little silly, considering we’re predicted to do better than anybody in these elections and a poll last month said 30% of gays would vote tory, compared with 18% each for the Labour and Lib Dems – the Greens werent mentioned. And don’t please dont criticise where I come from, not very liberal is it? But I think you’ll find its all you lefties that need to get with the times, cos you seem to be stuck in the 1980s continually blaming Thatcher for whats happening now – unbelievable!

  69. Adam, you claim not to be religious (I would rather you acepted, rather than believed ‘in’ Evolution, and based your beliefs on evidence, and not authority.) – but you clearly talk nonsense.

    Clearly, you would rather two gay people did not have children (why you have the arrogance to meddle in other people’s affairs is frankly beyond me). If you had your way, a great many children would not have been brought into the world. They would not be alive today. The opposite of life is death. Do you have problems with basic English?

    “Although, actually, I have no problems with a single gay man or single lesbian bringing up a kid on their own – just not as a couple. …But I just dont think being brought up by two people of the same sex is right, if theyre a couple anyway.”

    – As Pumpkin pointed out quite succinctly, problem kids are from unstable families. There is NO EVIDENCE to show that same-sex couples are less likely to provide a loving, stable environment for a child than a straight couple.

    Do you actually have a REASON to believe gay couples shouldn’t bring up kids, rather than infantile statements beginning with ‘I just don’t think…’ – you could have finished the sentence there quite frankly.

    As for faith schools – no, why should children be indoctrinated with their parents’ faith, courtesy of the state? Why should they be denied access to proper education about sexuality, terrorised with threat of hell, because they are from a specific ethnic background? While kids are captive at school they are vulnerable to picking up the bad ideas of those who have authority over them.

    Statistics show most people do not want religious schools – they want good schools. Faith schools manage to cream off the best kids and leave state to deal with the underperformers.

    Faith schools do nothing for cohesion and lead to segregation. We don’t need them and mark my words, I would have every last one of them bulldozed.

  70. AdrianT, why do faith schools do better than non-faith schools then? Answer that question? And as for indoctrination, I wouldnt want my kids (if I had any) to waste their time being taught all this other lefty do-gooder stuff they learn now. And handing out condoms in schools whatever next? That just encourages underage sex. But I do agree with you that children shouldnt be indoctrinated by schools. Tbh schools shouldnt even be talking about some subjects, like sex for example – it should be up to parents. But parents have a right to decide what their kids are taught – simple as. “Faith schools do nothing for cohesion and lead to segregation. We don’t need them and mark my words, I would have every last one of them bulldozed.” – yeah typical lefty, undemocratic answer to eveything, if we dont like something or its a threat to us then ban it or destroy it. Really liberal that.

  71. Adam Of The Sixth Form – The admissions process used by many faith schools weeds out underperforming kids, which are left to the state schools. It’s quite easy to see how faith schools get to ‘perform better’.

    Parents do not have the right to decide what their kids should be taught. Can you imagine, strictly religious parents beign allowed to pull their child out of the physics class because Big Bang Theory offends their deeply held beliefs? Children need access to the best knowledge available – often to break down prejudices held by parents, who do not know any better to start with.

    If something is a threat to society, or civilisation – absolutely, we destroy it. The Taleban for example, after 9/11. I don’t love my enemies. It’s them or us. Tolerance has to be reciprocated, and earned.

    Reactionary senile clerics should not be allowed to fill children’s minds with lies, shame, fear and guilt. It has notihng to do with democracy, or being a ‘lefty’; Children are vulnerable and impressionable and they need protection from other people’s bad ideas.

    As for whether kids should learn about safe sex – well, great to see you’re continuing the Catholic Church’s stupid teachings, and encouraging unwanted pregnancies and spreading of sexually transmitted diseases. Adolescents will experiment. It’s best they know the score.

  72. To repeat, do you actually have a REASON to believe gay couples shouldn’t bring up kids, or is it something you’ve been brought up to believe?

  73. I believe a child is being better brought up by a straight, ideally married, couple. That is my belief. Whether thats an opinion or not is immaterial. That is just my belief. This doesnt have anything to do with religion btw. I have loads of gay friends, actually most of them Lib Dems supporters, who believe exactly the same – that a kid needs a mum and a dad. And religious schools dont pick the best performing, what an absolute load of dross. I went to a faith school and nothing like that happened. They’d just rather have kids of that faith in the school. And please dont be melodramatic with the big bang etc. – you know that isnt what I meant. And I am actually catholic, but I dont agree with the Pope, but he kinda has a point. If condoms are easily available then more people have sex which means bigger chance of disease etc. But at the same time, protected sex is obviously better than unprotected sex. But condoms shouldnt be available in schools – No, no, no! Schools are there to educate people to get a good job. They are not for brainwashing kids etc. So yeah I agree with you in that sense. But, in my opinion, condoms being easily available is part of the reason we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe. This is because of the liberal policies of this labour government. I suppose you also believe that girls who are pregnant should be able to go to the doctor etc. and have abortions without their parents even knowing? And as for the taleban, obviously they need to be defeated. But would you ban them? You probably would. Thats the point I’m making. People need to make judgements for themselves and if they do wrong then they face the consequences etc. But banning things like junk food, smoking etc. is just plain wrong and reminiscent of a dictatorship – as our id cards and all these databases.

  74. (I would indeed eliminate, exterminate, eradicate, extinguish the Taleban, because I want to protect democracy, justice, reason, liberty, self-determination. It’s them or us. I do not understand the relevance to junk food, or tobacco.)

    Your point about sex education – the UK does not provide adequate informaiton about condoms. It is actually behind other European countries. There is excellent access to condoms and sex information in the Netherlands (where I lived for 10 years by the way), Scandianvia.

    And the corollary – wherever people are deprived of sex education, access to contraceptives, there is more disease. (cf: ‘Condom ban helping AIDS spread in Latin America – report by the United Nations, 23 Oct 2007, for example)

    The evidence in peer reviewed journals, suggests that when children are given no informaiton, or only told about ‘abstinence’
    they are ill equipped – both educationally and practically – to cope, making them more prone to problems I referred to above than others.

    “That is my belief. Whether thats an opinion or not is immaterial. That is just my belief.”
    – You are welcome to your opinion. But it doesn’t count for anything. By your own admission, without a coherent reason to support it, you are out of the argument. So long as you don’t dictate to other gay couples whether they have kids or not, it’s fine by me of course. The fact that many of your friends agree with you does not count. After all – everyone in Galileo’s time believed the sun went round the earth. Consensus is no consolation for lack of evidence.

    The point about the Big Bang Theory – that a parent would not want their child to know the universe started 13.7 billion years ago (as opposed to about 6,000 years ago), is completely plausible. [In the US, the Texas education board has just last month, insisted Science textbooks remove reference to the age of the Universe.] Over 40 faith schools in the UK are actually teaching kids that the Genesis legend is literal truth.

    Parents do not know best about ediucation – that is why kids go to school in the first place.

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