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Churches to be banned from turning down gay staff

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  1. This is fantastic news!!!

    Most of the youth groups around my way are run by churches and they discriminate against LGBT youth.

    If the want those Council grants (Tax payers money) then they will now have to support LGBT youth for the money.

  2. what gay person in their right mind would want to be part of such an organisation? i’m a youth worker and I would rather be unemployed than work for a church. Nothing but hypocrites and pedos.

    1. Ian Ridgwell 27 Sep 2012, 4:58am

      Joe, on the other hand, your comment is nothing but a demonstration of your bigotry and Christophobia. Was Christ a hypocrite in your estimation or is it only every one of the 1 billion present followers who are? And pedophilia exists in churches but it exists pervasively in the society at large unfortunately largely because the influence of the Christian message has been reduced from former times.

  3. I totally agree with Craig. Joe, congrats on the sweeping generalisations!

  4. Joe;
    How easy do you think it would be to take them to an Employment Tribunal if they discriminated?

    A gay man who claimed his feelings had been hurt after a colleague wobbled her breasts at him was awarded £62,500 compensation.

    I would think LGBT people would be queuing up to get the job’s?

  5. The Evangelical Fundamentalist chrisitan view on this is very interesting . . . to a look to see what we are up agianst

    www(dot)christian.org.uk/news

    The Christian Institute seems to be their mouth piece

  6. Is this going to apply to teachers in primary and secondary schools?


  7. Click here to see the story from the
    Christian Institute website
    You’ll have to copy and past your comment in html code into the comment box
    to do the links.
     

  8. So, Archbishop-Vincent-not-of-this-planet-these-child-torturing-nuns-priests-and-brothers-are-‘courageous-for-facing-the-music’-Nicholls, and his ilk, have won, in a word.

    Q.When is a law not a law?

    I am no lawyer but even thicko me can see that it is one thro’ which the NATIONAL EXPRESS can drive their coaches thro’…all at once.
    And the Catholic hierarchy is just going to sit idly by while others in church employment will be allowed to carry on?
    The exemption that permits the ‘sifting’- a la Ratzinger – of candidates for suitability for the Catholic priesthood (seein’ whether you’re one of Dorothy’s practising friends or not before we ordain you) should be removed.

    Why, on the grounds that they promote discrimination,
    is it not – ‘Agree to the law or shut your churches’..?

    I dream on.

    Keith.
    SALFORD.

  9. …from the article, last paragraph.

    “Churches, synagogues, mosques and others will continue to have the freedom to choose who they employ in jobs which promote their religion. But where they provide services to the public they will have to treat everyone fairly.”

    Yes, I was right.
    It IS ‘dream on’ time..!

    So what is a sermon from the pulpit.?

    There are times when I wish that I did not have the half of a brain that I do have…altho’ I stand to be corrected on even that over-estimation of my worth…

    Keith.

    :)

  10. "Churches, synagogues, mosques and others will continue to have
    the freedom to choose who they employ in jobs which promote their
    religion. But where they provide services to the public they will have
    to treat everyone fairly."

     

    The Gay youth workers will be working with the Public. You don’t have to
    be religious to attend a youth centre.

  11. “The Bill says nothing about the difference between an active homosexual and someone who has left the lifestyle but still experiences some same-sex attraction. This distinction is crucial for Christians.”

    Only for the rabid anti-gay ones who hide their own insecurities by attacking LGBT people with what borders on a clinical obsession. The Christian Institute is, in my opinion, a spiteful little organisation who are determined to persecute one section of society. Their fear-mongering is hysterical and their arguments don’t make any sense.

  12. “The Christian Institute is, in my opinion, a spiteful little organisation who are determined to persecute one section of society.”

    Iris – My sentiments exactly

  13. Iris – or to put it another way, so long as we exhibit a deep sense of self loathing and denial the Christian Institute will leave us alone. We should all be more like that nice Ted Haggard!
    Well why didn’t they just say so… where do I sign up?

  14. The Church of England already employs gay clergy and bishops. When it comes to youth clubs it most likely the C of E who run the straight forward kind. Independent churches have youth clubs run by church members and tend to have a religious focus at some point in the session.

  15. Off topic, and with regard to the thread begun on 7 May re. the Gallup-Coexist Poll that found that UK-Muslims have “zero tolerance” of homosexuality (see pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12321.html#).

    This is to advise readers that I followed the above thread with interest, particularly the refusal by a small minority of PinkNews posters to believe the finding that the average Muslim person in the UK has no tolerance of homosexuality.

    Some people said that the Poll was poorly conducted because it was conducted by a group (The Coexist Foundation) that has no skill in conducting valid surveys.

    Consequently I decided that I would write to Coexist and question them as to the methods used.

    I have today received the following reply from their Coordinator. She advises that Coexist had no part in the conducting of the actual survey. The survey was carried out by Gallup, experts in their field.

    The letter reads:

    “I should clarify that the Coexist Foundation has had no involvement in the design or the analysis of the polling data. This is exclusively Gallup’s work – what we have done, in our partnership with them, is to help disseminate the findings so that the public can have a better sense of what Muslims believe – rather than what politicians, pundits and other self-appointed spokespeople would have them believe! In Gallup’s words, the aim of this process is to “democratise the debate” and allow a voice for ordinary people…

    If you are interested in finding out more about Gallup’s work, might I point you to ?

    All good wishes, and thank you again for taking the trouble to write.

    Bridget Flavell
    Coordinator, The Coexist Foundation
    17-19 Bedford Street
    London WC2E 9HP”

  16. Except for David C’s comment which I find difficult to follow at the moment (but I do remember the article), it’s a miracle!

    I agree with everyone on this thread, well at least for few minutes. How long do you expect a miracle to last anyway?

    On the one hand I agree totally with those who say things like: “What kind of a moron would join a homophobic religious institution, let alone work for one”.

    Then my old friend, Keith the Giant Varmint, pops up and speaks a language with which I am all too familiar. The RCC needs to lift this suitability for the priesthood thing, another one of Benny’s unilateral decisions, and allow LGBT persons access to the priesthood: women as well as men. Sound crazy?

    Yea, well Keith is a lot better at sounding crazy than I am, but seeing how well humility suits him, I can’t help but elaborate on his darling idea.

    The only way the RCC is ever going to modify or update its sexual theology is if a bunch of us get in there, climb the ladder of the hierachy until we are in a position to change it ourselves and return to the authentic teachings of Jesus, which, as I have said often enough, are summed up in the Golden Rule.

    Then the voice of reason pops up and says: “You don’t have to be a christian to practice the Golden Rule”, and here I find myself even more confused.

    Where is Sister Mary Clarence when you need her?

    In the meantime, I’m going to stroll over to the Vatican website and see how this news is impacting the boys’ club.

    See ya later,

  17. #16
    JEAN PAUL

    Talking of ‘humility’…

    Did you ever lie prone at the door of the refectory, mumbling “Pray for me…” while the rest of the community walked over your corpse to get to their places for lunch….to be followed up by yourself going in last and then having your own meal on your knees in front of said community…?

    Ha!
    Wasn’t it difficult cutting up the cabbage…?!
    Ha..!
    I was prostrate once and thinking that everyone had gone in over me, started to get up but this little old (very) priest had yet to step over me.
    I didn’t see or hear him so caught him full in the crotch and there we were…acres of habit all a-flying and his long chapelet, which had snapped, pinging beads, like hailstones all over the highly polished refectory floor.

    The bell rang and I was told to sit down as I ‘was making a mockery of the whole concept..’

    Ha!

    Keith.
    (and I have been reprimanded – for telling everybody where I am from, so shhh….our secret!! shshsh..!)

  18. david skinner 22 May 2009, 8:39am

    According to the thug Maria and her lesbian twin Angela Eagle, it is only the LGBTs who will have equal rights in a free and fair society. Inevitably the LGBTs will extend into LGBTPs, LGBTPN, LGBTZ …..until at least 30 sexual orientations identified by American Psychiatric Association (APA) will have gained their rights and privileges.

    Am I making too subtle a statement when I point out that buried amongst the list below heterophilia are homophilia are described by their sexuality instead of their emotional attachment. This surely is an attempt to convince us that they are genetically and biologically determined, for which there is not an ounce or shred of scientific evidence.

    Asphyxophilia – sexual gratification derived from activities that involve oxygen deprivation through hanging, strangulation, or other means
    Autogynephilia – the sexual arousal of a man by his own perception of himself as a woman or dressed as a woman
    Bisexual – the capacity to feel erotic attraction toward, or to engage in sexual interaction with, both males and females
    Coprophilia – sexual arousal associated with feces
    Exhibitionism – the act of exposing one’s genitals to an unwilling observer to obtain sexual gratification
    Fetishism/Sexual Fetishism – obtaining sexual excitement primarily or exclusively from an inanimate object or a particular part of the body
    Frotteurism – approaching an unknown woman from the rear and pressing or rubbing the penis against her buttocks
    Heterosexuality – the universal norm of sexuality with those of the opposite sex
    Homosexual/Gay/Lesbian – people who form sexual relationships primarily or exclusively with members of their own gender
    Gender Identity Disorder – a strong and persistent cross-gender identification, which is the desire to be, or the insistence that one is, or the other sex, “along with” persistent discomfort about one’s assigned sex or a sense of the inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex
    Gerontosexuality – distinct preference for sexual relationships primarily or exclusively with an elderly partner
    Incest – sex with a sibling or parent
    Kleptophilia – obtaining sexual excitement from stealing
    Klismaphilia – erotic pleasure derived from enemas
    Necrophilia – sexual arousal and/or activity with a corpse
    Partialism – A fetish in which a person is sexually attracted to a specific body part exclusive of the person
    Pedophilia – Sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger). The individual with pedophilia must be age 16 years or older and at least 5 years older than the child. For individuals in late adolescence with pedophilia, no precise age difference is specified, and clinical judgment must be used; both the sexual maturity of the child and the age difference must be taken into account; the adult may be sexually attracted to opposite sex, same sex, or prefer either
    Prostitution – the act or practice of offering sexual stimulation or intercourse for money
    Sexual Masochism – obtaining sexual gratification by being subjected to pain or humiliation
    Sexual Sadism – the intentional infliction of pain or humiliation on another person in order to achieve sexual excitement
    Telephone Scatalogia – sexual arousal associated with making or receiving obscene phone calls
    Toucherism – characterized by a strong desire to touch the breast or genitals of an unknown woman without her consent; often occurs in conjunction with other paraphilia
    Transgenderism – an umbrella term referring to and/or covering transvestitism, drag queen/king, and transsexualism
    Transsexual – a person whose gender identity is different from his or her anatomical gender
    Transvestite – a person who is sexually stimulated or gratified by wearing the clothes of the other gender
    Transvestic Fetishism – intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing
    Urophilia – sexual arousal associated with urine
    Voyeurism – obtaining sexual arousal by observing people without their consent when they are undressed or engaged in sexual activity
    Zoophilia/Bestiality – engaging in sexual activity with animals .

    But in the same way that the desire to give Muslims equal rights to the rest of us and thus give them the equal right to take away our rights and impose tyranny on us ( for that is what the Q’ran tells the Muslim to do – dhimmitude) so giving equal rights to homophiles is giving them the right to take away the Christian heterophile’s rights (because Hegelian Marxism, from which modern homophilia comes, is determined to destroy all antithesis, categories and absolute moralities, in other words sodhimmitude [ Thanks to Mansel Rogerson for this new defintion ])

  19. David skinner – by that token, you’re demonstrating Christimmitude then. (You appear to be oblivious to the myriad ways that Christians have traditionally eroded far more fundamental rights within the gay community than simply the ability to criticise those you don’t agree with)
    And I find it personally insulting that you consider my relationship to be solely based on sex.

  20. “This surely is an attempt to convince us that they are genetically and biologically determined, for which there is not an ounce or shred of scientific evidence.”

    Why does he persist in using science to support an argument, when (1) by his own admission he doesn’t understand science, and (2) he is not even using scientific evidence?

    There is ample evidence that homosexuality is due to a combination of genetics and pre-natal hormonal conditions. Skinners argument to the contrary is the bible… yeah right. Lets see how that stands up in a court of law. No body with an IQ above a potato would considers the bible anything but a book of stories, and silly stories at that.

    A look at wikipedia (science for the lay man) shows that homosexuality is more than prevalent in the animal kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals), and such convergent evolution, or shared genetics, shows there is an important reason as to why homosexuality exists.

    Oh, I’m sorry, evolution is a makie-up childrens story, according to Skinner, not like Adam and Eve… that OBVIOUSLY how it all started. I can only assume there must be great money in falsifying the fossil record with fake dinosaur bones.

    Maybe Skinner can explain why he holds such small minded bigotry towards gay people instead? Abused? Lonely? Ex-Gay?

    My money is on ex-gay. Its not normal to be this obsessed with homosexuality, unless you are actually gay. And been then, we’re not THAT obsessed with the sexual act as he is. With Skinner, its either clinical or physiological.

    Skinner’s bigoted belief that we are “described by their sexuality instead of their emotional attachment”, is quite frankly idiocy. How naive can he be? I’m in a relationship for 7 years. A monogamous, stable and very loving relationship. I know many gay people in the same. Are we supposed to be “pretending” here? Having a laugh? Yeah, that’s it. Its a big joke to piss off the dogmatic and the religiously afflicted. Its an idiot that doesn’t see the proof in front of his face, and a bigger idiot who tries to defend an incorrect position with religious dogma.

    What a buffoon that Skinner is. A small minded and silly buffoon. How does he live knowing his beliefs are part of an minority among intelligent people?

  21. david skinner 22 May 2009, 10:06am

    Flapjack,(19) homosexual rights can be summed up by GAYDAR’s motto WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU WANT. The LGBT lobby are like the present government aka Chris Bryant – self serving. Stonewall have no concern for the unborn child children, the homeless, the elderly, the homeless. Etc. Name me one charity apart from those connected with curing them from their own self- induced diseases, like HIV and AIDs. Where amongst the glitterati of the Stonewall “heroes” are those looking out for rights and welfare of others. Quite the opposite; they are in the process of shutting down old peoples’ homes, hostels for the homeless, centres of drug rehabilitation etc that do not conform to the world view of homophiles.

  22. david skinner 22 May 2009, 10:14am

    Will, I have no obession with homosexuality only with what it will destroy : the truth, our children, the family, freedom of speech, reason, the economy, our health, in fact everything

  23. “Will, I have no obession with homosexuality only with what it will destroy : the truth, our children, the family, freedom of speech, reason, the economy, our health, in fact everything”

    Of course it will, end of the world. Like in Spain and Holland, society literally collapsed when they in introduced gay marriage. The sky fell. Fire and brimstone. The rapture. Hell on earth!

    No? It didn’t happen? Oh, so it wasn’t the end of civilisation? Stable gay relationships ensued that were of benefit to society? Well, isn’t that a surprise.

    The fact is that a true democracy protects all the rights of its citizens, not deny rights based on the feverish views of extremists like you. Nothing but good has come out of protecting the rights (and I use that word in its correct context) of gay people and their relationships. Especially as heterosexual marriage as such a high failure rate.

    In truth, is YOUR kind that is destroying children. See the Ryan Report in Ireland and the nauseating abuse done at the hands of those, like you, who think they are “godly” and above others, and so quick to condemn others in stable relationships which do not conform to the contradictions of an archaic book. “Men of the cloth” and their sanctimonious opinions of “evil gays”, and all the while the abuse children. And this isn’t the first travesty in history committed by your kind… so much injustice is done by people like you Skinner, small people with such a warped view. You religious types are sickening in what you do against other innocent people. Death camps in Germany, 1939, happened because of people like you. You should be ashamed of yourself, and even more so to be proud of your shame.

    Have a good read of news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8060788.stm to see how your religious friends are so protecting the future of mankind.

    You see, I have no obsession with religion only with what it will destroy: the truth, our children, the family, freedom of speech, reason, the economy, our health, in fact everything.

  24. Will in Comment 20: you took the words right out of my mouth.
    And, David Skinner, you actually scare me. Not because of your religious beliefs, but because of your creepy obsession with sex. I don’t know you so I won’t speculate, but reading your posts really makes me uneasy.

  25. david skinner 22 May 2009, 12:05pm

    So William everything is tickety boo in Holland , especially with the peaceful integration of Islam? You may have noticed recently the attempt by the Dutch politician Geert Wilders to come to Britain to warn us with the film FITNA and how Jaqui Smith banned him due at a threat from Lord Ahmed to bring 10 000 Muslims to threaten the House of Lords.

    Any remaining stability left in Holland is due to the fact that the traditional family is stronger there than it is . Parents still have greater authority and power over their children than they do here. Families in general are comparatively stronger on the Continent, due to the presence of the Catholic Church. ( I am not a Roman Catholic).

    Only time will tell how permissiveness will work itself out.

  26. Traditional family? So gay people are now not from a “traditional family”???

    Really?

    I have a mother and a father. I have 4 brothers and one sister, all straight. Sounds fairly traditional to me.

    And how many “traditional families” have fallen apart solely on the basis of the introduction of gay marriage?

    I’d say none.

  27. Always try to remember that David Skinner is mentally ill, and, therefore, it is not possible to credit any of his comments.

  28. William, Flapjack, you make really excellent points, I couldn’t agree more!

    David, you don’t back up any of your statements with evidence or fact, except with (as William pointed out) dogma and fear. You really should try harder.

    And to back up your point William, I am in a relationship with my partner for the last 23 years. I met him when I was 22, and I am as happy today with him today as I was 23 years ago, if not more so. To say I love him is an understatement, my life began the day I first saw him. It nauseates me that this Davis Skinner person, and his like, have the audacity to demean the beautiful thing I have with my partner, by reducing it to sex. How ignorant, and how blind.

    I have more than most “straight” people do. And probably more then Mr. Skinner ever will.

  29. Thanks Iris & Terry.

  30. William (#20), well said. Beautifully put.

  31. Ciaran McMahon 22 May 2009, 12:29pm

    “Families in general are comparatively stronger on the Continent, due to the presence of the Catholic Church.”

    Are you retarded? Did you even read the Ryan Report link given by Will on what the catholic church did in Ireland? The catholic church in Ireland is a travesty against humanity!

    And this is the great stability brought to children due to the “presence of the Catholic Church”? Abuse? Sexual assault?

    You are some prize idiot, Skinner.

    Will, mate, great points, as usual from you. You’re obviously too smart for this Skinner muppet.

  32. david skinner 22 May 2009, 12:45pm

    Beautiful, beautiful. And what pray , Terry, is wrong with sex. Why is a relationship reduced by introducing sex into it? Sex is a gift from God.

    By your reckoning one could not find a more beautiful couple that that of Jeffrey John , the homosexual dean of St. Albans Abbey and his long standing lover, the rev Grant Homes.
    As I am sure you know they were married and yet, we are led to believe solemnly swore to abstain from any future, sexual activity. This indeed is a beautiful, beautiful and unearthly marriage, difficult to match even in a heterosexual partnership, but is also a form of gnosticism and denial of God the Creator who ordered that a man cleave to his wife in order to become one flesh. I just hope that, when and if a homosexual at St. Albans declares that he has finally broken free of the bondage of his habit and is now clothed in his right mind, there is as much celebration and enthusiastic applause- as there surely will be in Heaven – by the cathedral congregation of about 300 , over this one sinner who repented , as when Jeffrey John and his partner’s marriage was announced from the pulpit with the words : “It is a delightful occasion for them both but I am even more pleased that the congregation reacted so warmly and arranged a reception after the main service to toast their good health.” It is more than likely that such a repentant sinner would be rushed off to the nearest diversity training centre or even mental home. Indeed the more holy and exemplary these two try to appear the more grotesque they become, even more so to root -and -branch LGBTs who see themselves as revolutionary rather than as conventional goody goodies.

  33. Who said anything was wrong about sex?

    You’re the one with the obsession. You’re the one who refers to being gay as a “habit”. How ridiculous you are. Some habit, given my habit has lasted more than most straight relationships. That’s a lot of people who develop a habit. Being gay must be more addictive than smoking. And your proof of this ludicrousness statement? Science, if you please. Ah, yes. As has been pointed out here, you don’t have proof. Science is an enigma to you. Just another David Skinner statement born of ignorance.

    You are a bigot, Mr. Skinner. Its nothing to do with gays or Muslims. You hate because you’re small, and your understanding of the world around you is small. How I pity people like you.

    All bigotry is born out of fear, and most fear comes from the unknown.

    You are a most distasteful example of this.

  34. “All bigotry is born out of fear, and most fear comes from the unknown. You are a most distasteful example of this.”

    Beautifully put, Terry.

    Wasted on Skinner, of course, he’s clearly suffering from a phobia of some kind which limits rational though.

  35. David – (thread 32)

    “Hypocrisy” . . . and “Moral Relativity”

    Your view please on the polygamy in the Anglican Communion . . .
    O dear . . . one man one women . . . not in some countries . . . as you well know but conveniently ignore

    Why do you ignore this David

  36. Notice how this Skinner bloke doesn’t answer any questions or points put to him. Once can only assume he is incapable of answering, or he thinks he preaching?

    A computer program can issue the same old jaded rhetoric, he really should abdicate to one of them.

    Nice point Terry & Will, especially William Number 23… you have a gift, man!

  37. Tomas Kiernan 22 May 2009, 1:06pm

    Folks, whats the point, skinner is an ex-gay. What a sad bastard. A waste of time talking to him.

  38. I have a friend who is a gay, and nothing bad happened to me, nor anyone around that person. The problem is that my friend is religious, but he can’t go to church, so he has to “practice” his religion at home. The thing I am going to ask is, if a person is a gay, where does it say that gay people can’t believe in god? But our churches behave that way. They behave like gay people can’t believe like disabled can’t walk. They behave like gayness is like an anomaly. That’s sad.

  39. david skinner 22 May 2009, 1:26pm

    It is true that the Catholic Church has an appalling record of paedophilia with the John Jay report in America and cover up by the ex archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal Cormack O’ Murphy . But is equally true that they are the only outfit standing up for the family, the unborn child and the sanctity of human life. My only conclusion concerning this contradiction is that the Catholic Church’s erroneous and unbiblical teaching about priests being celibate has attracted homophiles into its priesthood, who have traditionally filled roles, such as those of teaching and looking after orphans and which bring them into immediate contact with children. None of this alters the fact that sexual abuse in all these cases is overwhelmingly men against boys

  40. Linking homosexuality to paedophilia again . . .

    Is there really evidence and justification for this corollary?

  41. It’s me again, the great confused one. I could have sworn (well, I would have said: “Darn!”) that this thread was about ‘Churches to be banned from turning down gay staff.’ Beam me up, Scottie!

    Anyway, as an absolutely revolted cradle Catholic, I checked out the Vatican’s website to see what impact this story was having in the Boys’ Club, and I was not surprised to find no mention of it anywhere. There goes the RCC doing what it does best: ignoring everything except the liturgical vestments catalogues.

    WILLIAM (23):

    I do like your style. If you keep that up, I will have to put a feather in your cap!

    NEVILLE (27):

    Always a pleasure to read you. Why do we insist on attempting to dialogue with someone afflicted with a mental illness? Why, oh why?

    TERRY (28):

    Ditto. My life began when I met Jean Guy 19 years ago. We will be celebrating our anniversary on June 21st; first day of summer = first day of our lives. Love begins when you’re in love!

    KEITH (16):

    No, I have never lied prone at the door of the refectory…

    But, if you’ll give me a minute, I’d like to give you a tiny insight into daily life in a Trappist monastery.

    There was a custom dating back to the 11th century that when a monk broke a piece of farm equipment or any tool for that matter, that he was to stand at the door of the refectory with the broken tool in his hands and to ask forgiveness of all who entered the dining area.

    Needless to say, most tools were old and could easily be broken. When the mop-handle of the mop I was using to clean a floor broke just at the point where the handle joins the mop, I had to stand at the entrance of the refectory, etc.

    When everybody was sitting and eating their insipid overcooked vegetables (we never ate meat), I put the mop on my head, tucked the back of my habit under my leather belt, entered the refectory, turned my back to them and looked at them over my shoulder and began singing: “I’m in the mood for love, simply because you’re near me-e-e!

    Oh, the abbot called me into his office again and blah, blah, blah.

    The next morning was my turn to make the coffee. The monks used to add half a cup of chickory to the coffee pot. Would you believe I ‘accidently’ put in 2 cups of chickory instead? They drank it, didn’t say a thing. They were trained to eat whatever was put in front of them, you see. And you think I’ve got problems. I was a ba-a-a-a-d boy! They didn’t have any manners anyway. The proof of that is that nobody said “Goodbye” the day I left.

    I also have a riddle for you, you Giant Varmint: What is a David Skinner?

  42. You all waste your time replying to David Skinner. He suffers from religious mania which is a serious and almost untreatable mental illness.

  43. “has attracted homophiles into its priesthood”

    And your proof?

    Sorry, I forgot, you don’t “do” proof.

    The truth of the matter is that religious people seek power and domain over others, nothing to do with God. Its the only reason for religion, and sexual abuse is the ultimate abuse of power. Like you, they are abusive.

    You claim to be christian, yet you follow none of their teachings of love and tolerance. How is that David?

  44. Will, you are my new hero! I simply love your postings:- smart, witty, and make so much more sense to me than that troll. Ever think of running for a politician?

    More, please!

    G x

  45. # 41
    JEAN-PAUL.

    Could you kindly refrain from using the word ‘tool’..?
    ‘Implement’ would be far…ermm…healthier, espesh when talking about monks.
    I do not know about L’Acadie, but here in Muckchester, the meaning of the word ‘tool’ has, ermm, degenerated.
    It was quite unintended on your part, but the use of ‘tool’ and ‘monk’ together has now dislocated my shoulder, laffin’.

    “…that he was to stand at the door of the refectory with the broken tool in his hands and to ask forgiveness of all who entered the dining area. Needless to say, most tools were old and could easily be broken..”

    What a hoot..!
    Too much!

    You say you have a riddle for me, which is “What is a David Skinner?”
    Well, I do not know exactly, what a ‘David Skinner’ might be; he’s too clever for me, that’s for sure, but that never was difficult.
    I could venture a suggestion..?
    As I have said before, most of the talk on here (COMMENTS PINKNEWS) go over my head. Such learning! Such erudition!
    But if you were to ask me, then I would have to say that, in the face of all this aforementioned erudition, from Will and Ciaran, to name but two, your…. ‘David Skinner will never be a winner..’

    Keith.
    Shh..I have not got to say where I am from…got told off.!

  46. ‘talk…goes….’
    Sorry ’bout that…!
    Did tell you I wuz fikk..
    x

  47. Keith (45):

    Thanks for remining me of the homonym for ‘tool’.

    There was nothing broken about my tool back in my 20’s. We were forbidden to masturbate (can I use that word on here), but I used to check off the days on my calendar when I used to have a wet dream. At the end of the month, there were more checkmarks than days in the month! Go figure.

    Yea, erudition makes me barf too. Too bad I’m so full of it. Normally, I would have have been playing football and taking showers with the boys. But there I was, a permanent fixture in the library.

    Well, it looks to me like you’ve solved the riddle, and in fine poetic form to boot!

    Why don’t people listen listen to Neville? That’s not a riddle, it’s just a reality check.

  48. Robert, ex-pat Brit 22 May 2009, 7:30pm

    Why is when it comes to sexual orientation, being gay is considered a lifestyle but being straight isn’t? What’s that about? Do they really think we choose who we are and why would we choose to be gay knowing we suffer more discrimination than any other segment of society and still don’t have full equality?

  49. Robert, as Will has often said, religious types aren’t that bright. It never occurred to them.

    Why do they chose a life of stupidity, now THATS a lifestyle choice!

  50. Go ahead, lads. Give Skinner a good skinning, give ‘im a good going over, punch ‘im, kick ‘im, grab ‘im by the family jewels GO, Go, GO ! ! !

    George (49):

    It never occured to me that stupidity was a lifestyle choice. Good one. Will is an inspiration to us all, except when he disagrees with me. HA!

  51. @David Skinner

    Thank you for your list of what you describe as “sexual orientations”.

    Putting aside the categorisation error, there is just one thing I’d like to point out.

    The word necrophilia is a compound derived from the greek words “nekros” (dead) and “philia” (friendship) ie. it means, literally, a friendship with the dead – a description of Christianity if ever there were one.

    PS. You’re not going to tell us now that “Jesus Lives” are you?

  52. “The truth of the matter is that religious people seek power and domain over others, nothing to do with God. Its the only reason for religion, and sexual abuse is the ultimate abuse of power. Like you, they are abusive.”

    So true, Will, I’d alos add that people who seek comfort in religion are insecure in their own sense of self. By joining a religious group, they feel vindicated and ‘special’. However, being weak, they can’t stop at that, but have to have someone to persecute to draw attention away from their own inadequacies – women, black or Asian people, LGBT people, anyone that they think they can bully.
    Religions – almost all of them – are man-made self-congratulatory members clubs. They have nothing to do with any god or gods.
    And can you imagine the headline saying “Churches forced to employ black people?” Oh, my heart weeps for the poor old churches – NOT.

  53. Jean-Paul Wrote
    “Go ahead, lads. Give Skinner a good skinning, give ‘im a good going over, punch ‘im, kick ‘im, grab ‘im by the family jewels GO, Go, GO ! ! !”

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    O dear . . . what ever happened to reasoned disccusion?

  54. John K (53):

    Wha’??? I was only suggesting that you act like straight guys for a few minutes, cheeze.

    KEITH:

    Is it time for some comic relief yet?

    I know where you’re fro-o-o-o-m-m-m…. Starts with an S-S-S-S, ends with a DEE-E-E-E-E…

    Speaking of long chapelets, there was this ancient monk who always had a three day beard on his gloomy, colorless face; was as skinny as a rake; and who would haunt the corridors while dragging a five-foot chapelet (I kid you not) behind him.

    I could still distinctly hear him coming down the wooden straicase as his beads would hit every step. Hilarious, especially since he seemed not to notice a thing.

    He would shuffle himself into chapel for the Office, sit beside me (he never took a bath or changed his habit, and he spent a lot of time in the barn) and spend the whole time taking desperately long and deep breaths as if he was in the very depths of despair while fingering his black beads instead of chanting the psalms with the rest of us, who were making sure to strike a wrong note to annoy our neighbor every now and then. We used to call that the ‘battle of the Office’.

    One beautiful summer afternoon when I was weeding the main flower bed, he happened to come my way, dragging his beads.

    ‘Good afternoon, Brother Benoit’, says I, ‘Isn’t it a beautiful day?’

    He lifted his expressionless face and replied in a dull tone of voice:

    ‘Yes, but it won’t last.’

    Another time, I was changing the bed linens and he happened to come into his room while I was just beginning to take off his filthy sheets.

    ‘What are you doing?’, says he.

    ‘I’m changing the sheets.’, says I.

    ‘What for?’, says he, ‘they were changed just last year.’

    When he came across me one day mopping a floor, he querried:

    ‘What are you doing?’

    ‘I’m washing the floor.’, says I.

    ‘What for?’ says he, ‘it will only get dirty again.’

    So what are you up to lately? Had enough of all this here ear-hud-hissen, this here natterings of necrophiliacs, while Neville has given up on the bunch ‘o dem ? ? ?

  55. What a lot of hate spews from the mouth of David Skinner. What a sad little intellecual midget you are.

  56. Henry Collier 23 May 2009, 2:09pm

    If we insist that the churches do not interfere with the State, then how can we justify the State’s interference with the Churches? What we CAN do is to withdraw all public funding and tax benefits from those groups who choose to systematically discriminate against LBGTQI people. Attack the bigots where it hurts the most, in the pocketbook.

  57. I think I am starting to agree with David Skinner. The only issue the gay community is concerned with is about the acceptance of their sexuality. The queer community is very harsh on the different in its own community.I was even attacked for suggesting the discrimination around sexuality and mental ilness in Ireland is quite vicious.(F*ck off Will you right wing maggot). Even where I live discrimination exists and there has been serious bashings related to this identity. Church groups run drop inn and care for the disabled and great compassion is extended to the weak and vunerable. The only interaction the gay community has with young mentally ill is their exploitation in prostitution industry only to discard them when they lose their looks. It is even more disgraceful young straight vulnerable youth are abused by gay men in this manner. Much of the hatred directed towards the gay community is well deserved.
    Just to piss you off further I have been asked to write about sexuality and mental health by the top university in my adopted country and the biggest gay community group in my city.They have already read my scathing views on the gay community and have asked me to write further. So i wont be f*cking off quite yet faggots.

    discrimination exists.

  58. “So i wont be f*cking off quite yet faggots.
    …discrimination exists.”

    “faggots”…?

    It certainly does exist, Victim, and not least in YOU.

    “Church groups run drop inn and care for the disabled and great compassion is extended to the weak and vunerable”.

    No doubt these groups do carry out this excellent work; other Church groups are the subject of multi-million dollar abuse claims.
    There are good and bad in every barrow-load of apples.

    “The only interaction the gay community has with young mentally ill is their exploitation in prostitution industry only to discard them when they lose their looks. It is even more disgraceful young straight vulnerable youth are abused by gay men in this manner.”

    The “only interaction”…?
    “…only…?”

    A bit sweeping that, no..?

    Doubtless, there will be some who do exploit the vulnerable for the purposes of prostitution but such exploitation is not peculiar to – and not the sole prerogative of – homosexual people/carers.

    I saw a black man yesterday, in Tesco’s, put an apple in his jacket pocket off the display; he walked off with it; he did not pay for it. All black people are thieves; theft is only perpetrated by black people.

    That is what you are saying.
    The logic in it is flawed.

    Your statements are too sweeping and that is because they are full of heated emotion and lack cold logic.

    Your use of the word ‘only’ is exclusive of the many who do NOT abuse the vulnerable in their care.
    Be very careful in your paper for this ‘top university’ that you are not seen as a fool; you most certainly will be if you employ logic such as you display above.

    The last word in your ‘Comment’ is the one which actually gives you away.
    It is the word which the 4 yobbos scream at the gay man they have just beaten up and knifed to death as they scarper off, “Faaaagggottttttttttttttt…!”

    That has more to do with YOUR agenda, I would guess.

    Are you sure you are not yet another self-hating, unable-to -accept-yourself-friend-of-Dotty-and-Toto..?

    K

  59. Victim by name, idiot by nature.

    You’re meds running low there, you racist piece of filth?

  60. victim – “Just to piss you off further I have been asked to write about sexuality and mental health by the top university in my adopted country and the biggest gay community group in my city.They have already read my scathing views on the gay community and have asked me to write further. So i wont be f*cking off quite yet faggots.”
    Are you sure your university was asking for your academic insight on mental health issues and not merely employing you as a test subject?
    You might want to check the small print. Just saying…

  61. @skinner
    I find the whole idea of organised religion extremely laudable. I am quiet curious to know what denomination of Christianity you follow. it seems to me that for a religion that believes in one true god, one god of everyone that it has completely lost the plot where they only worship i.e. the god of Christianity, or the god of Catholicism, the god of the protestants etc etc etc. blummin hell you fight enough between yourself about who is right while shouting your own denomination is the only one going to that big five star hotel in the sky at the end of it all. then when it comes to other religions such as Islam and Judaism, who by the way, ironically, all worship the same god but just in different ways, your masters at the top of your religious denominations must love the fact that they can blind you from the simple truth that they can exercise so much control over you by making you believe that there are all these other gods and you must fight against them, or you are going to hell. Even though I do have a lot of sympathy for you, sometimes being blunt is the only way to get through to people like you. There is only one true god, one true god of us all, whether you are gay or straight, black or white, Muslim, or catholic, protestant or evangelical. Perhaps it is not us what betray your ideals, it’s your ideals that betray you. In the end if you give it enough thought you might see that the whole question of god is irrelevant, just live your life, appreciate it and hope that you leave it in a better way than it was when you came in to it, you could start by just pissing off and accepting that sometimes two men or two woman are gay and only want to have a happy life together. The only people who benefit from your blind devotion are the Machiavellian leaders of your particular denomination of religion who know that by creating conflict between people though religion gives them immense power, jumping on social issues such as gay rights to discriminate against a minority is an abhorrent practice but acts as an extremely effective tool for them to strike fear into idiotically blind people such as yourself.
    peace out

  62. #57 Victim

    “Much of the hatred directed towards the gay community is well deserved.”

    Probably so, but not because they are gay; there are gay people doing dreadful things, no doubt; doing dreadful things because they are dreadful people but their sexual preferences/orientation are quite incidental and totally irrelevant.
    Greengrocers are loathesome people for some of the things that they do; so are bikers; and policemen and nuns and dustbinmen; cardinals and bus-drivers; all appalling; but that is because they are people doing things they ought not to.
    My analogy with the black man and the apple he nicked; he is reprehensible for taking the apple; it stops there; his colour has nothing to do with it.
    People who abuse others in their care are reprehensible but they do not abuse others because they themselves are gay; gayness is neither a predisposition to, nor a predilection for, the abuse of others.
    Heterosexual carers abuse too. Gays do not have sole rights to the abuse of others. “He is gay therefore he is an abuser; he is black therefore he is a thief.” …?… I don’t think so.
    It is people who abuse other people; people who steal; their sexuality or colour does not come into it.

    K

  63. #61 Lee.

    I am not sure what you mean by ‘laudable’ in your first line; you might mean ‘laughable’.

    Anyway I could not agree more with the rest of you piece; organised religion is just one big power trip; an exercise in people control and, I’ll give them this, A BLOODY GOOD BUSINESS..!

    They can all go and plait fog.

    K

  64. Ciaran McMahon 23 May 2009, 7:14pm

    Well, if it isn’t Victim again. You choose your name wisely, I’m sure no one can stand you in the real world.

    What’s that mental disease you have again? You’re retarded, right? You did say that before. Did you bang that message out on your little V-Tech laptop with a stick attached to your head, did you?

    ….well, I’d rather be a smart faggot than a retarded gimp like you, you distasteful little troll.

  65. “Did you bang that message out on your little V-Tech laptop with a stick attached to your head, did you?”

    LOL…. classic.

  66. lol yer, bit of a slip. Felt like a bit stress busting, I was just down my city centre where some extreemist preechers spouted a verbal volley of hate towards gay people in my face. Hats off to everyone who stands up for the community, i find it unfortunate and sometimes quite infurating that these religious nuts are completly incapable of listening to reasoning, understaning any king of logic and have a completle inability to show any kind of empathy. Thankfully however they are on the wrong side of the tide and while social change takes time we can all take comfort in the fact that while we keep our voices heard we will prevail just as we have done so once again with the equity bill. In a way we can all be quite thankful for people like skinner and victim who have posted here because they only strengthen our resolve and each and everytime I am faced with people like them I only find myself more empowered to stand up against them, so thank you “victim” and Skinner. And hats off to you Keith, your posts have been well balanced and thought out and ones I completly agree.

  67. Flapjack – we can say with near certainty that a total loser in life ‘Victim’ is a test subject. The guy clearly needs psychiatric help – as shown from countless other pointless posts of his.

  68. Since David Skinner keeps returning to post nonsense and bare faced lies, about topics he has zero understanding of (he admits, he knows nothing about Science), it’s time to put him right on a few topics.

    It’s complicated stuff, so this will go over a number of posts.
    Let’s deal with this nonsense about gay people more likely to be paedophiles – well, paedophilia is completely different from homosexuality. That has been recognised by the medical associations for a long time. Jim Burroway covered this in detail in 2005:

    ARE GAYS A THREAT TO OUR CHILDREN?
    (Part one)
    A discussion of gay sexuality and homosexual molestation
    Source: Box Turtle Bulletin, authored by Jim Burroway
    September 26, 2005; revised October 16, 2006. (see the website for citations referring to this article)

    A bombshell exploded on September 29, 2006, when Congressman Mark Foley (R-Fla) abruptly resigned after sexually explicit e-mails and Instant Messages he exchanged with former pages were made public.1 Almost immediately, gays and lesbians were confronted with the familiar charge that there is an inherent link between homosexuality and pedophilia:

    We have a Republican man in Congress who sent e-mails to teenage boys asking them what they were wearing, and an entire party, the Democrats, whose primary constituency, besides the teachers’ unions, is homosexual men and lesbian women. I hope it won’t come as a surprise to anyone that a big part of male homosexual behavior is interest in young boys. — Ben Stein, American Spectator 2

    Where does post-modern American ethics place Mark Foley’s homosexuality on a scale of 1 to 10 – a 1 being just another gay guy and a 10 being a compulsive, predatory sex offender? — Daniel Henninger, Wall Street Journal 3

    While pro-homosexual activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. Although almost all child molesters are male and less than 3% of men are homosexual, about a third of all child sex abuse cases involve men molesting boys. — Tony Perkins, Family Research Council4

    While all of this was going on, Charles C. Roberts barricaded himself in an Amish schoolhouse in rural Pennsylvania, where he intended to sexually molest the young girls in the classroom. But before he could do it, he started shooting. Ten girls were shot – five died – before he finally turned the gun on himself.5 This happened only a week after Duane Morrison burst into a classroom at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado. He took several girls hostage and sexually assaulted some before releasing four. Two were still in the classroom when a SWAT team shot its way in. Morrison shot one girl as she tried to run away and then killed himself.6

    In neither case was the predator’s heterosexual orientation cited as an explanation for his crime. Psychotherapist and author Joe Kort points out that when men molest little girls, they’re specifically called “pedophiles” or “sexual predators.” But when men molest boys, they’re simply called “homosexuals,” as though sexual orientation were responsible for driving these men to their crimes.7

    Gays are often singled out for suspicion of molesting children in numbers far out of proportion to their presence in the general population. In making this case, the arguments made by gay-rights opponents typically go something like this:8
     Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
     Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.
     Gays make up a tiny minority of the population. (Anti-gay opponents typically cite a figure somewhere between 1% and 3%.)

     Therefore, gay men are committing a disproportionate share of sexual crimes against children.
    Child sexual abuse has a profound impact on victims and their families. Because we want to protect our children, we must ask: Are gays disproportionately abusing children?

    THE STARTING POINT:What Do We Know About Molesters And Their Victims?

    When it comes to statistics, we know surprisingly little about child sexual abuse. Official statistics are notoriously incomplete because too many cases are never reported.
    Many researchers believe that many male victims who are molested by men may not come forward because of the stigma surrounding homosexuality. These victims often not only fear the false label of being gay, they may also fear harassment or condemnation because of it. Fortunately, our society has recently shown an admirable steadfastness in supporting these victims when they do come forward, and their example has, no doubt, emboldened other victims to do the same. If anything remotely positive could come from the tragedy of the clergy sexual abuse scandals, it would be the lowering of the stigma of same-sex abuse allowing more victims to come forward.9
    The picture is very different when adult women molest boys. Sociologists and caseworkers note that many boys who are sexually involved with adult women rarely complain because they don’t feel they’ve been molested. In fact, they’re likely to brag about it to their friends, who in turn admire them for being enough of a “man” to have sex with an older woman.10 In one study of adult men whose first sexual encounter with an adult women occurred before the age of sixteen, 88% called it a positive experience.11

    Because there is very little incentive in our culture to view this as harmful, such encounters rarely turn up in official statistics. Only now is there a slowly growing recognition that when older women exploit younger boys, these boys can actually be seriously harmed by the experience.12

    Experts agree that official statistics significantly understate the sexual activity between adults and minors. One national probability-sampled survey of 4,008 adult women who were raped in childhood found than less than 12% of these incidents were reported to police.13

    With so many cases not being reported, we cannot know the true proportion of males versus female victims. Because official statistics are so unreliable, estimates are made from other sources. The best guesses – and these are only guesses based on a large number of surveys – generally go this way:
     As of July 2000, about 94% of all sexual predators against juveniles who were reported to police were male,14 although the proportion of female predators being reported has risen sharply in recent years.15
     Using the best estimates from multiple sources, males appear to make up somewhere between 15% and 30% of all child molestation victims, with females making up the remaining cases.16
    So, as far as we know, it appears to be true that almost all sexual predators are men. But notice however, that the “one-third” figure that anti-gay activists cite for the ratio of male vs. female victims represents the very highest end of the estimated range – which, of course, makes the problem of “homosexual molestation” appear worse than the data actually suggests.

    (to be continued)

  69. (part 2)
    HOW MANY HOMOSEXUALS ARE THERE?
    We know that the proportion of self-described gay men in the general population is very small — certainly much smaller than the one-sixth to one-third of children abused children who are male victims of adult me. Many gay rights opponents place the proportion of self-described gay men quite low, around 1-3%. But most large-population surveys support something higher than 3%.17, 18 For the sake of this discussion, we’ll accept 3%.

    What does this mean? Well, let’s say we’ve gathered 10,000 adults in a stadium and asked them one simple yes-or-no question: “Are you gay?” If our 3% figure is correct, only 300 people in that stadium will answer “yes,” with the remaining 9,700 saying “no.” This much is pretty obvious.

    And for someone who answers “yes” to that question, what would we know about him or her? Again, most people would think this answer is pretty obvious as well. If he’s a man, that means he dates other men, he is sexually attracted to other men, and because he is comfortable enough to answer “yes” to a stranger with a clipboard, he is probably known by his family, friends and neighbors as being gay.

    And you can draw the same conclusions for a woman who answers “yes” as well: she dates other women, is attracted to other women, and is confident enough to say so when asked. In other words, visibly “out” gay men and women are typically the ones who answer “yes” to this question in surveys.

    And how do we know that this three percent mostly represents those who are “out”? Well, a recent online survey by Harris Interactive asked them exactly that. Those who identified themselves as gay reported that 92% are out to their close friends, 78% are out to their parents, 68% are out to other relatives, acquaintances and to casual friends, and 66% are out to co-workers.19

    What’s more, many surveys show that this three percent does not include everyone who is behaving homosexually. Not only does this figure often exclude bisexuals, it also excludes those who don’t identify themselves as gay for any number of reasons – even though they may admit to engaging in same-sex sexual contact.

    According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 57% of men who had sex with another man did not consider themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.20 A recent random survey of 4,193 men in New York City revealed that while 91.3% claimed they were straight, 9.3% of those “straight” respondents had sex only with other men in the previous year, while another 0.8% reported having sex with both men and women.21 When the authors included gays and bisexuals, they noted that among men who have sex with men, 73% identified as straight. Another representative survey found that more than 20% of all men have had a homosexual experience.22

    And remember – these figures are all based on what these men voluntarily admit to doing. Who knows how many others refuse to acknowledge their sexual activity when asked for these surveys.
    It’s important to keep in mind exactly who we’re talking about when we’re discussing this three percent. A lot of people behave homosexually without being among the three percent who identify themselves as gay. In fact, when it comes to homosexual behavior, this three percent is barely scratching the surface.
    The Statistical Breakdown Breaks Down
    With this data in hand, let’s go back to the arguments made by anti-gay activists.
     Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.

    This appears to be true. According to reports to law enforcement, 92% of child sex abusers are men, although reports of women predators have been increasing in the past several years.
     Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys.

    This appears to be at the very highest rates of the estimates. A more reasonable range appears to be between one-sixth and one-third. Experts generally agree however that the true scope of the problem is barely understood due to massive under-reporting.
     Gays make up a tiny minority of the population (i.e., somewhere between 1% and 3%).

    This is a low-ball figure. The best estimates for out, self-identified gay men begin at about 3% and go up a little from there. But surveys which account for homosexual behavior regardless of identity range anywhere from 7% to 20%.
     Therefore, gay men are committing a disproportionate share of sexual crimes against children.

    Due to the flaws in the highly-selected data that anti-gay activists cite, this conclusion simply cannot be supported. What’s more, there may even be a significant overlap between the range of men who behave homosexually and the percentage of men who abuse boys.

    Because of the great uncertainty surrounding these statistics – and the logical fallacy surrounding the use of the three percent figure – there is no basis for concluding that gays are responsible for a disproportionate amount of child sexual abuse. But because the data is so unreliable, we also can’t prove that those who behave homosexually are not abusing children disproportionately, regardless of whether they claim to be gay or not. That means that if we really want to understand what’s going on, we have to look much more closely at the predators themselves.

    ARE GAY MAN ABUSING BOYS?
    During the 1992 campaign for Colorado’s Amendment 2 (which would have barred local anti-discrimination laws based on sexual orientation), the group supporting the amendment, Colorado For Family Values, repeated the charge that 3% of the population was responsible for 30% of all child molestation cases. But Denver-area doctors, caseworkers and investigators knew that these charges didn’t match their own experience.

    Dr. Carole Jenny was the director of the Child Advocacy and Protection Team at Denver’s Childrens Hospital, and she also directed medical programs at the C. Henry Kempe National Center for the Prevention and Treatment of Child Abuse and Neglect. Dr. Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by men who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior.23

    Let’s consider what this means. If these men who abused boys in this study were in our stadium, all but one would have answered “no” to the question “Are you gay?” And not only did they say they were not gay, they were married, had girlfriends, or were otherwise known to have sexual relationships with women. If law enforcement had been looking for the perpetrators among gay men, they never would have found them. They would have missed 49 of these 50 sexual predators because they would have been hidden among the 9,700 in our stadium who said they were not gay.
    Dr. Jenny and her associates concluded that even if you use the worst case possibilities in their sample, no more than 3.1% of child sexual abuse cases reported to the Denver clinic were abused by someone who could be identified as possibly being gay, a proportion that closely matches the proportion of openly gay men and women overall.

  70. (part 3, final part)
    Two Types of Predators
    As surprising as this may be, it only confirmed what Dr. Nicholas Groth demonstrated many years earlier. Dr. Groth was a leading pioneer in the field of child sex abuse, having treated more than 500 sex offenders by 1982.24 In 1978, he and Dr. Jean Birnbaum published a study of 175 convicted male child molesters in which they found:

    “The child offender is a relatively young adult either who has been sexually attracted to underage persons almost exclusively in his life or who turns to a child as a result of stresses in his adult sexual or marital relationships. Those offenders who are sexually attracted exclusively to children show a slight preference for boys over girls, yet these same individuals are uninterested in adult homosexual relationships. In fact, they frequently express a strong sexual aversion to adult males.”25

    Dr. Groth identified two classic types of child molesters that he labeled fixated and regressed.26 The fixated molester is one whose development is “fixated” at childhood. In other words, he has never grown up. He typically lives a Peter-Pan existence, in a Neverland of childlike identity and behavior. He doesn’t form adult relationships easily, or if he does, the relationships tend not to be very stable. Instead, he sees children as his peers. Other adults often see him as being “very good with children”, which allows him to obtain a position of trust as a role model, leader, or caretaker.
    With his primary sexual interest in children and not adults, the fixated offender fits the classic definition of a “pedophile.” And because he is fixated on children, he cannot properly be considered to be either heterosexual or homosexual — he often finds adults of either sex repulsive.

    On the other hand, the regressed molester is very different. His attraction to children is usually more temporary. Unlike the fixated molester, the regressed molester’s primary sexual attraction is toward other adults. But stressful conditions that go along with adult responsibly or difficulties in his adult relationships may overwhelm him, causing his sexual focus to “regress” towards children. This regression sometimes serves as a substitute for adult relationship, and his attraction to children may vary according to the varying stresses he encounters in his adult life demands.

    In some cases, he may temporarily relate to the child as a peer, much as a fixated offender relates to children. But more often, he is simply lashing out against the stresses in his life, and the child becomes a convenient target. The offender may find a sense of power in his sexual relationship with a child that he doesn’t get with an adult. When that happens this relationship with the child is often violent. But regardless of the nature of the relationship, the gender of the child is often irrelevant — it’s the easy access and vulnerability that makes the child a target.
    Regressed offenders are typically heterosexual in their adult relationships. Unlike our three percent sample, they date women and marry them. They often are parents, stepparents or extended family members of their victims. By all appearances — and by their own self-identification — they are straight. Drs. Groth and Birnbaum emphasized this point, saying:

    “In over 12 years of clinical experience working with child molesters, we have yet to see any example of a regression from an adult homosexual orientation. The child offender who is also attracted to and engaged in adult relationships is heterosexual.”27

    While Drs. Groth and Birnbaum were emphatic on this point, there’s no reason to believe that there’s no such thing as someone who is engaged in homosexual adult relationships while also molesting children. Surely they’re out there. I don’t think any group of fallible human beings can claim perfect innocence on this. But the experts generally agree: the phenomenon is rare.

    Are These “Straight” Abusers Lying?
    You’re probably shaking your head right about now. Why would a man who claims to be straight molest young boys? How could he not be gay, even if he refuses to admit it?

    This contradiction concerned Dr. Kurt Freund and his associates at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto, where many convicted sexual predators were sent for treatment. Using an instrument connected to the subject’s penis, Dr. Freund and his colleagues measured changes in its volume while the subject looked at pictures of nude men, women and children.

    These phallometric (penis-measuring) tests, while controversial for many reasons,28 supported the conclusion that as a group overall, gay men were no more likely to respond sexually to male children than straight men. Furthermore these tests supported these sex offenders’ statements when they claimed to be gay or straight:

    “These studies show that only rarely are sex offenders against male children diagnosed as androphiles [homosexual in adult orientation] and that phallometric diagnosis of gynophilic [heterosexual in adult orientation] and androphilic volunteers almost always corresponds to their claimed erotic preference.”29

    So, they are telling the truth — at least according to how they responded physically to the nude pictures.30 When they say they are straight, they respond to pictures of adult women, and when they say they are gay, they respond sexually to pictures of adult men. Yet Dr. Freund determined that gays are less attracted to young boys than straights.

    How Could “Straight” Men Be Attracted To Boys?
    If these molesters aren’t lying when they say they’re straight, why would they abuse boys? What could possibly be the attraction?
    Dr. W.L. Marshall and his colleagues conducted a similar set of phallometric tests on a sample of gay and straight men, except this time they used more photos of young boys and girls covering a wider age span. They noticed that for those gay men who were attracted to males under 18, they tended to be attracted to young men who were well past the age of puberty (age 15 or older), with fully-developed adult genitalia and other features that were characteristically masculine. But when heterosexual men showed an attraction towards younger males, they tended to be attracted to pre-pubescent males (ages 9-11):

    “Amongst the heterosexuals, the commonest remarks concerning attractive features of the victims, were that the young boys did not have any body hair and that their bodies were soft and smooth.”31

    This explains the apparent contradiction of straight men abusing young boys. They really are straight – they’re responding to the feminine qualities of pre-pubescent boys, qualities that gay men didn’t find appealing. After all, gay men are, by definition, attracted to men; the feminine characteristics of young boys were a turn-off to them.

    “Homosexuality” and “Homosexual Molestation”
    Part of the confusion between homosexuality and the molestation of young boys comes from the terminology used by researchers themselves. If an adult male molests a young boy, that type of molestation is typically called a “homosexual molestation”. But when described this way, the term “homosexual” is used as an adjective in its most literal sense — the victim and perpetrator are of the same sex. It doesn’t refer to the sexual orientation of either the victim or the perpetrator.32

    Unfortunately, researchers aren’t always careful with how they use the word “homosexual” in their academic writings. After all, they understand the clinical meaning of the word according to context. “Homosexual abuse” merely describes the same-sex nature of the abuser and victim, not the sexual orientation of either the abuser or victim. And they often use the shorthand “homosexuals” to describe the men who abuse boys. But when they go the extra step of determining the actual sexual orientation of child molesters, they tend to be more careful. Some, like Dr. Freund, prefer the clinical terms “androphile” (attracted to men) and “gynophile” (attracted to women) to describe those who are attracted to adults.

    This point is crucial, one that many anti-gay activists are very hostile towards. Peter LaBarbera, of Americans for Truth, exclaimed, “Who cares if a guy is married? If he’s molesting boys, that’s homosexual behavior. It’s academic nonsense to talk about these people as heterosexuals.”33

    But it’s not nonsense at all. If a man is married, he’s not among the 3% who said they were gay in our stadium survey. He’s not among the gay couples who are adopting children or seeking to marry. He’s hidden among those who claim to be straight. If law enforcement were to focus their efforts on finding sexual predators among the “out” 3% who claim to be gay, 97% of male abusers of young boys would go unpunished.34

    A Firmly Established Tactic
    Yet anti-gay activists insist on spreading this misinformation. Dr. Timothy Dailey (Ph.D., religion) of the Family Research Council quoted Dr. Freund’s statement of “199 offenders against female children and 96 offenders against male children. This would indicate a proportional prevalence of 32 percent of homosexual offenders against children.”35 But he ignored Dr. Freund’s clarification in the very same report that:
    Androphiles [homosexuals in adult orientation] actually responded significantly less to the male children.36
    This echoes what Dr. Groth reported in 1982:

    “The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be a homosexual.”37

    Of course, you don’t see what the research really says in Dr. Dailey’s article. Instead, you’ll find massive misrepresentations of the research — including that of Dr. Groth, who denounced Dr. Dailey’s misuse of his work:

    “Since your report, in my view, misrepresents the facts of what we know about this matter from scientific investigation, and does not indicate that my studies on this topic reach conclusions diametrically opposed to yours, I would appreciate your removing any reference to my work in your paper lest it appear to the reader that my research supports your views.”38

    EASIER TO NAUSEATE THAN TO EDUCATE
    It doesn’t matter how often the lie is repeated; it still remains false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,” and “cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent”.39 The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists40 and the American Psychological Association41 are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.

    These anti-gay activists know that their claims are false. They’ve read the research from the most knowledgeable experts in the field — the same research I reviewed here in this article. They must know that the falsehoods they are spreading contradict what the researchers themselves are saying.

    But they keep spreading their accusations because they know how effective they are. Every parent would consider it his or her worst nightmare to discover that their innocent child has been sexually violated. And anti-gay activists feed on that fear to further their agenda because, as Colorado for Family Values founder Tony Marco observed, “It is easier to nauseate than it is to educate.”42

    And while this lie is horribly libelous to gay men and women, that’s only a small part of the problem. The real harm is to our children. As long as we remain suspicious of the wrong people, predators will continue to have free reign to abuse innocent children. If they remain free from scrutiny because everyone else is focusing on gays and lesbians, more young lives will continue to be shattered and more parents will suffer the agonizing heartache of learning that they trusted someone who destroyed their child’s future.
    We must not allow those leaders who oppose equal rights for gays and lesbians to cynically jeopardize our children’s safety to further their agenda. The consequences are far too severe for the next generation.

  71. DAVID SKINNER ON SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS: LYING FOR JESUS, AGAIN.
    David Skinner – please will you stop referring to the APA’s umpteen types of sexual orientation. The APA makes NO SUCH STATEMENT.

    “The APA Defines Thirty Sexual Orientations” (cf Box Turtle Bulletin, see references on May 11th 2009 news page)

    The American Psychiatric Association’s official definition is not much different from the federal government’s. The APA’s official handbook, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV-TR, 2000) offers a very precise definition of how clinicians should describe a client’s sexual orientation:

    “Specifiers
    For sexually mature individuals, the following specifiers may be noted based on the individual’s sexual orientation: Sexually Attracted to Males, Sexually Attracted to Females, Sexually Attracted to Both, and Sexually Attracted to Neither. ”

    In other words, the APA defines only FOUR sexual orientations. And they do so in order to provide a consistent description of an individual’s sexual orientation. It is not a diagnosis itself, since homosexuality is not listed as a mental disorder. And just so everyone’s clear on exactly what the APA means by their very short description of sexual orientation, they provided an expanded discussion on their web site:

    “Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female), and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).”

    Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only).

    So where did the list of thirty “sexual orientations” come from? Let’s turn again to the APA’s DSM-IV-TR under the heading of “Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders,” namely the APA’s examples of sexual paraphilias:

    “The Paraphilias are characterized by recurrent, intense sexual urges, fantasies, or behaviors that involve unusual objects, activities, or situations and cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The Paraphilias include Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotteurism, Pedophilia, Sexual Masochism, Sexual Sadism, Transvestic Fetishism, Voyeurism, and Paraphilia Not Otherwise Specified.”

    The DSM goes further, identifying specific criteria for diagnosing these various paraphilias, something that the DSM does not do for sexual orientation. And the reason is simple: sexual paraphilias are mental disorders according to the DSM, while homosexuality is not. Which is why the DSM devotes several pages to sexual paraphilias — and describes them as an impairment to normal functioning — but just a few words to consensual adult homosexuality, heterosexuality or bisexuality, which the APA reminds us “is not an illness, a mental disorder, or an emotional problem.”

    So just to be clear:

    Sexual orientation is STRICTLY LINITED to the realms of homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality.
    All the other stuff — pedophilia, exhibitionism, masochism, and the other twenty-seven paraphilias are NOT sexual orientations.
    The proposed hate crime laws covers only sexual orientation, and not paraphilias.

    In other words, you can still punch a pedophile and not risk running afoul of the proposed hate crime law. I wouldn’t recommend it — you’d still be liable for assault charges, but there would be no federal hate crime enhancements involved.

    If you won’t believe me, then how about Dr. Jack Drescher? He’s a member of the APA’s DSM-V Workgroup on Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders, one of the groups working on the next revision of the APA’s manual. He confirmed everything I said, and went further:

    Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, nor would pedophiles be covered by a law protecting people for their sexual orientation. Religious social conservatives who oppose gay rights are using terms that sound like science, as opposed to actual science, to make unwarranted and malicious comparisons between homosexuality and pedophilia. Not only is this scare tactic untruthful, it reveals how little respect some religious conservative leaders have for the intelligence of the people they are trying to persuade.

    It is indeed a scare tactic, and anti-gay activists know full well that it is a blatant distortion of the APA’s position on sexual orientation and paraphilias. Remember, Dobson holds a Ph.D. in psychology. He clearly knows that he’s lying, and he has chosen to do so as a deliberate tactic. There’s simply no other plausable explanation. And as the bill comes closer to passing and being signed into law, their rhetoric is likely to get worse, not better. Stay tuned.
    (Author: Jim Burroway)

    Check the references for yourselves; I will hear no more of this list of orientations again on this website, Mr Skinner.

  72. AdrianT (67):

    Where have you been? You’ve been missing all the fun. Surely you know that you are merely supporting Neville’s point of view, He is probably off enjoying your fabulous giant Ferris Wheel on this fine Saturday afternoon.

    And boys ‘o boys, I hope you’re wearing your boxing gloves (68, 69, 70, 71), you WINNER you! (You have now lost the title of ‘Rascal’).

  73. Keith (62):

    Your erudition is showing, you G.V. from SD.

    Or is our friend, Eddy, coaching you?

  74. Greetings, Jean-Paul; Neville is right, of course, you cannot have a rational conversation with a religious fanatic. At the same time you cannot let falsehoods stand unchallenged for all to see.

    If you start with a premise that sexuality is a gift from god, paedophilia is a problem for gay people, the APA lists 30 different sexualities, or other unsubstantiated claims (e.g. the role of the family in the Netherlands – I have never heard such rubbish) then everything that follows is going to be nonsense.

    It’s a problem for the owners of this website though – with the presence of such a crazed fool, every thread will end up like this.

  75. Im glad too see I have caused a little stir again. Actually the piece I wrote on the largest e-mail list recently was well received and I got a feedback of thank yous’. It is funny Will im racist considering a recent article in the Irish Times claimed Ireland was far more racist than other western european nations.I too read about the endemic and systematic abuse and violent rape of boys in care in Eire. Another proud moment for the gay community. I would not waste my extensive knowledge of mental health disorders on the bigoted and limited users of this site. Im glad too you are now attacking the intellectually disabled as well. I hear german skinheads tolerate homosexual extremists maybe you can go join them.I am actually writing another piece for the mental health consumer network where i will be exposing the degree of bigotry in the faggot community.I too have been asked by the mental health services to be their consumer consultant.
    I used to just ask for the acknowledgement of the experience of the gay mentally ill who had suffered terribly. I use to defend the gay community but now I realise it is just a self obsessed,narcissistic and shallow grouping not worthy of tolerance or respect. I am actually on quite a friendly basis with a few Irish girls where I live, though i wouldn’t extend that welcome to the Irish faggots i meet. This sight is full of homo bigots who are as every bit as nasty and damaging as the christian evangelists would have you believe. The church groups have at least a good record for caring for the weak.Most of the horriffic abuse in Ireland by the catholics against children was perpetrated by homosexual men including violent rapes against boys. So you will be glad to know I now understand why str8s in ireland hated my guts and I forgive them because they had reasonable suspicion I was a dirty faggot paedo by the fact im gay. I recently went on a trip back home and talked to some jews who were all in agreement the irish were racist and they were moving to other parts of Europe.It is amazing how the Irish go all over the world but are highly xenophobic in there own country.
    The minute i realised the degree of hatred for the diasbled in the gay community is the moment I decided to break ranks and attack the nasty little subculture of turd burglars.I have suffered severe abuse and this was rubbished by faggots so i now will attack their hollow and undeserving call for equality.

  76. AdrianT (74):

    It’s good to touch base with you.

    We have all come a long way in a very short time.

    I am holding in there, realizing more and more that I am never too old to learn, and that younger fellows are so often well-informed and articulate.

    Living on the other side of the pond prevents me from having hands-on experience with all the implications of the topics. I enjoy commenting; some people appreciate me, others don’t. C’est la vie!

    As for the APA, I understood from your informative comments that there were only four legitimate sexual orientations, and there was no mention of a god. I suppose you mean that the same material to which you refer is being misinterpretated to suit anti-gay agendas, e.g. Skinner.

    Yeah, a gay website is not quite like a gay bar or gay club where there are hefty bouncers at the door. It is going to be a continuous problem because these ‘crazed fools’ are basically harassing us anonymously, and to me it boils down to the fact that religion can freely and legitimately interfere with politics in GB.

    These pests could be blocked by the webmaster, but we all have the kind of respect for free speech that would not put up with censorship unless it could be considered dangerous, in which the police should at least be consulted, don’t you think?

    You don’t have to answer that, just carry on, you’re doing just fine.

  77. “I was a dirty faggot paedo by the fact im gay…”

    Well, that about says it all, really, yep…?
    That to me sounds like ‘born-again-Christian’ nonsense; all hat and no knickers; all talk and no substance.

    Good luck to you and those like you; there is no talking to you, so there’s no point in doing so because your logic is flawed.
    And your repeated references to ‘faggot’ throughout your scribblings along with your reference to ‘turd burglars’ are juvenile in the extreme, more suited to the walls of a latrine than to any serious forum of debate.
    I can just picture you pee-ing yourself with glee as you write it all down.
    In my own experience of men like you who had great difficulty in accepting that they were ‘other’, just as you are having; one made a disastrous marriage, so much so that his missus took him to the cleaners. And he took his own life at 47, because of it all.
    The next is still at home with mummy at 41 despite the fact that up until he reached about 35, the women were literally camped outside his house checking to see which rival had secured him for the night, so stunningly ‘ooomph’ was he.!
    And the last, a Pole, has married a woman who has dumped him in favour of ‘Jack Daniels’.
    He has had a son by her ‘just to quell any rumours’ and now it is ‘I-have-a-headache..’ time, from HIM.
    He is ‘MISSING-IN-ACTION’..
    She is missing ANY action…
    Pour me another!

    He has done his ‘duty’ (phewww.!) and doesn’t need to prove anything any further.

    So there you have it.
    One dead.
    One still with mummy who at 70 wants to set off into the sunset with her own new love interest and can’t/won’t because her Mr.-‘I-am -not-gay’ son cannot boil water.
    And the last is in a threesome with HER bottle of ‘Jack Daniels’ …the only bit of the hard stuff in HER life…I know all this because she has told me and so has mummy’s boy.
    There you go.
    How many women’s lives are you fooking up, Victim?
    3 ? …same as the guys in my last 30 years…?
    Seen it all before.

    K

  78. …my comment #77 is in reply to VICTIM’s of #75.

    I could go on….but what’s the point…?
    None.
    K

  79. There is absolutely no point, Keith. Clearly, ‘Victim’ has serious mental health issues, and I advise him to get some proper psychiatric help. in fact, by directing all his hatred, at people who mean him no harm ‘Victim’ is more likely to let the real perpetrators of child abuse get away with it.

    Since we have someone who is determined to repeat a lie – repeated by someone who needs others to blame for his own problems, and the gay community is a very convenient target – I will repeat the APA’s position on paedophilia. I hope I don’t have to do this too may more times….

    “EASIER TO NAUSEATE THAN TO EDUCATE
    It doesn’t matter how often the lie is repeated; it still remains false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,”… The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists and the American Psychological Association41 are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.”

  80. In fact Keith I have never had a sexual experience or relationship with a women.My experience is while I was seeking treatment for a mental illness, against my wishes or unknown to me I was in fact being treated for my sexuality. The treatment was so aggressive i sufferred serious and painful health complications related to this. I was only made aware of the situation later and at first was very angry and wished to sue them.
    I have returned to this psychiatrist since then because the gay community has provided me no hope regarding being mentally ill.I have been offered surgery which though will supposedly destroy my homosexual orientation which I dont really want to happen, but i have been promised it will cure my mood and perceptual disturbances. I have been told I will no longer have to take disabling medication and deal with the unpleasant experience of being mentally sick.My very limited understanding is that it is a form of lobotomy and my psychiatrists’ opinion is my sexual orientation is the underlining reson for my mental disturbance.
    I will actually miss same sex intimacy because i will probably be asexual after surgery but it offers me a relief of 15 years of being ill and treated with contempt and abuse for being disabled.
    The surgery has my consent at this stage and while i actually cant see the link my doctor sees my orientation as a mental disorder.Either way i dont really care as I will have my old life back and will not have to deal with the nazi like attitudes directed towards the disabled.

  81. Jean Paul, free speech is one thing. But if sites go unmonitored, the argument belongs to him with the most fanatical viewpoint, and with the most time on his hands.

    So, is repeatedly lying acceptable free speech in that context (especially the common tactic of losing an argument on one thread, and repeating it on another)? I don’t think so.

    I think if you want to keep the subjects on-topic, you will have to ban such sad trolls. Instead of discussing whether church groups shoud select from the wider community if they are providing a service for the general population, as opposed to just their church group, we have screeds about gay people being the authors of society’s destruction. the discussion deteriorates at such a point. Untruths cannot lie there unchallenged for all to read. Why should we accommodate such defamation?

  82. Cianan McMahon 24 May 2009, 10:44am

    Victim, who gives a f*ck about you and your mentally retarded racist views. I can only assume no one likes you, and its because you’re a complete arsehole. Its also the reason the gay people wouldn’t touch you with a bargepole, not because they’re shallow. We have taste. Love the racist tirade, by the way, very enlightening as to how “clever” you are.

    You degenerate f*ckwit, you’re no loss to the gay scene, so run along retard, someone has a white paper to write on you.

  83. Its funny how the gay community likes to not only attack the intellectually, physically and psychiatrically disabled with no awareness they are highly bigoted and disgusting people. The degree of hatred in them is what inspires disabled gay people to have contempt for them and to view them as even worse as the most rabid homophobe. I too have sought psychiatric help and though it may affect my gayness what have i lost, just membership of a hateful and nasty community of people. Just as you dislike psychos, retards , freaks and looneys most the world hates queers, faggots and poofs. Seems like poetic justice to me.

  84. We get to see many offensive people in this site, but Victim, you are the lowest bottom feeder I have ever seen here. The Irish are not racist, just you ytou degenerate. The irony of your post is lost on you, no doubt. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt your clever enough. You and your kind are the reason the civil rights movement here in the US happened.

    Next you’ll be telling us how you enjoy burning books in the back garden. You pick your name well victim, but you’re fooling yourself, you’re not a victim, that’s just to make you feel better for your disgusting hate. In fact, I do think your mentally ill.

  85. Victim, Robert is right. You are distasteful beyond belief. You’re a bitchy, angry and intellectually weak little creature, aren’t you? How “intellectual” of you to be using the word faggot. Very intellectual. And Ciaran put to beautifully, you’re an arsehole. A complete and utter arsehole. You disgust me.

  86. Victim: if you show such hatred towards people who never mean you ill-will in the first place, what do you expect? I am not judging you as a mentally ill person. I am judging you as someone intent on whipping up hatred against a lot of vulnerable people you do not know, motivated by some personal vendetta that you have been harbouring, no doubt for many years.

    Considering how easy it is to incite hatred against gay people – as seen in the horrific murder of Michael Causer, you should be ashamed of yourself.

    (As for ‘intellectually disabled’ people – if your argument is incoherent, it will be shot to pieces. If logic is beyond you, it’s also your responsibility to know your limitations by not posting nonsense in the first place.)

    You claim to be seeing the same psychiatrist who saw your being gay as the underlying cause of your problems. That, by the way, is totally against the views of every psychiatric and medical association. Yet, besides that fact, you continue to seek this person’s advice. I can only urge you to reconsider, and seek proper professional advice.

    Of course, you have posted lies on this thread about gays being paedos, so I can’t be sure whether you’re telling just another pack of lies in this case too……

  87. I actually totally agree with you Ciaran McMahon. Besides the fact I am Irish of many generations I now see the error of my anti Irish views. People in Ireland were quite justified in assuming I was a sadistic child rapist and pervert because I was gay. The recent church scandals have only reinforced this.So I no longer hold any negative views about the str8 Irish as the predjudice was well justified. So for the world to hear the Irish are a great bunch of people who I deep down have no malice towards.there assumptions and hatred towards me was well justified considering what outrages commited by gay men against children in church care.I actually have a number of friends but fortunately most are straight.

  88. Posting a word like retard is a insult for the intellectually disabled.

  89. Victim – are you saying those who dislike psychos (e.g. like Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper), should expect hatred?

    I’d argue that dislike of psychos, and providing secure accommodation for freaks, looneys and others – who may suddenly hear voices to push someone off the railway station platform, and so on – is one sign of a healthy society.

  90. Stop being such an imbecile Victim. Gay men did not rape boys.

    Since we have someone who is determined to repeat a lie – repeated by someone who needs others to blame for his own problems, and the gay community is a very convenient target – I will repeat the APA’s position on paedophilia. I hope I don’t have to do this too may more times….

    “EASIER TO NAUSEATE THAN TO EDUCATE
    It doesn’t matter how often the lie is repeated; it still remains false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,”… The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists and the American Psychological Association41 are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.”

  91. Victim, wow. You are the angriest perso0n this site has seen in a while. And its the entire nations of Ireland’s fault? You need tyo buy a mirror, mate. It’s YOUR fault you’re the way you are, grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.

    Look up the word “racist” in a good dictionary for some clarity on your ignorant stance and have a good think about what you are.

  92. “considering what outrages committed by gay men against children in church care”

    What??? You think gay men did this? How bloody offensive, and wrong.

    You ARE a retard. A sick one at that. Read some books, instead of eating them, you idiot.

  93. I used to blame Irish str8s for the serious stigma that I had suffered due to combined sexuality and mental health issues.But I no longer do because I now can see where they were coming from.I actually have made a few Irish friends and they were very supportive and understanding regarding my situation.There fears and hatred were well justified considering my homosexual orientation as what were they to think. My biggest mistake was to blame Irish str8s for my ills. There are many great people living in Ireland and the most vile people seem to be part of the gay community.My assertion that the Irish are racist was just what I was told by immigrants and I cant really comment on that.If you deny the existence of serious discrimination against the crazy and attack them of course they will react with equal contempt. Telling the truth about the bigotry of gays is not inciting hatred and I finally get it. The hatred of Irish str8s against me was well justified considering the demographic i belong to and i hold no malice towards them.

  94. “Telling the truth about the bigotry of gays is not inciting hatred and I finally get it.”

    So, what evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to be bigoted than straight people? Have you conducted a survey, for instance? Let’s hear it, here and now, complete with references in peer reviewed journals. Over to you Victim…..

  95. “My assertion that the Irish are racist was just what I was told by immigrants”

    That’s why you should do your own research, not listen to a few idiots. You obviously have internet access, there’s no excuse for your ignorance. And another pointer, don’t come in here and use the word “faggot” and tell me that gay’s are paedophiles, that’s shows nothing but your distressing ignorance.

    Grow up. Take responsibility for your own life and shortfalls and stop blaming others. If you’re gay, deal with it. The rest of us have. Its why we’re fighting for your rights. You can choose to boo-hoo like our doing, or take some responsibility for who and what you are and make it a strength, instead of the weakness, as you have done.

  96. Most mentally ill do not hurt people and are far more likely to be assaulted than to harm anyone else.The words psycho and looney are directed at harmless mentally ill people with no aggressive tendencies. I do not hate the Irish because they were well justified in assuming i was a sadistic child rapist considering all the abuse that has come to light.

  97. What??? What ARE you talking about? Why would anyone think you’re a “sadistic child rapist”??? Answer Adrian T’s question and stop the bloody poor me crying…..

  98. To repeat – extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    Voctim claimed:
    “Telling the truth about the bigotry of gays is not inciting hatred and I finally get it.”

    So, what evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to be bigoted than straight people? Have you conducted a survey, for instance? Let’s hear it, here and now, complete with references in peer reviewed journals. Over to you Victim…..

  99. Yes, I would love to hear your evidence for this. Answer Adrian’s point, Victim, or get lost.

  100. I do finally get it now that people were just protecting there children from someone by a group of people responsible for a disproportionate amount of child sexual abuse. This in fact makes me realise that the Irish are a wonderful people, and I really love the company of irish str8s.My anti Irish sentiment was wrong and they have every right to have a suspicion I was a violent child rapist.Back then I didnt know we were responsible for such rampant pedophilia so I realise they were good people just trying to protect innocent children.

  101. we’re waiting with baited breath…………..

  102. A Jeremy Paxman v Michael Howard moment is about to occur on this thread I tihnk.
    To repeat – extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    Voctim claimed:
    “Telling the truth about the bigotry of gays is not inciting hatred and I finally get it.”

    So, what evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to be bigoted than straight people? Have you conducted a survey, for instance? Let’s hear it, here and now, complete with references in peer reviewed journals. Over to you Victim…..

  103. Are you in an infinite loop?

    ANSWER. THE. QUESTION.

    O5r been seen to be the bigoted racist piece of filth that I know you are.

  104. I’m also interested as to why you think gay people are paedophiles.

  105. Yeah, out with it Victim.

    If you DON’T have any proof, as Will said, the logical conclusion is that your are nothing but a “bigoted racist piece of filth”.

    And a liar.

  106. Still waiting…..

  107. # 80

    Victim.

    You say…
    “In fact Keith I have never had a sexual experience or relationship with a women.”

    Well, the admission of that is a start at least.
    I am almost 70 and neither have I.

    If it is not in you then you why chase it..?
    If it is not in you, more to the point, why let OTHERS MAKE YOU CHASE IT…?
    Are you sure that your doctor “sees your orientation as a mental disorder”…?
    That is strange in this day and age; I was sure that most medical opinion had discarded that (harmful) notion, with the exception recently of Dr. Narcolepsi, or whatever his name is/was.
    Are you sure that the doctor does not mean that it is your inability to accept yourself which is causing you the problems that it is causing you..?
    The same goes for your psychiatrist.
    You say that your …”psychiatrist’s opinion is my sexual orientation is the underlining reason for my mental disturbance.”
    Again, is it not your inablity to accept yourself that is the root of all this needless angst..?

    You say you will “miss same sex intimacy”.
    Why should you (miss it) just because you are being advised to undergo this surgery..?
    Accept yourself then there will be no surgery.
    You may have other health issues, I do not know, but being homosexual sure ain’t one of them; your inability to accept what you are may very well be.
    Do what I did get up and walk away from them all; it took some doing …in fact the last 40-some years but I have done it.
    And don’t forget I did it when it was all still illegal.

    You do not have to just ‘do as you are told’, today; deference is dead.
    ‘ The priest says…?…the doctor says…?’
    RUBBISH.!

    This is the U.K. of the 21st century, not Eire of the 1840’s

    Today, you can do what you like and query all and each in the open AND WITH the full backing of the law.

    Why live according to someone else’s precepts..why try to live by the diktats of others… why walk a path that was never designed for you to walk along?

    You continue..”I have been offered surgery which though will supposedly destroy my homosexual orientation which I dont really want to happen.”

    Nothing known to man will do that; you are what you are; no surgery will change a daisy into a buttercup; Dr. Narcosepsis, please note.

    I realised all this even as a gawpy kid of 20 or so and all in the same weekend that I was oiked out of the Catholic seminary for telling the priest-in-charge that I had SSA.
    I got up and left in the middle of mass; that was 1959 or so.
    I did not much fancy the shock treatment they advised and so the choice was, as I saw it at that time, remain in the church or dump it all.
    I dumped it all and have never been in a church since.

    Arseholes to the lot of them.

    K.
    By the way, przepraszam panu, ale czy jest polakiem..?
    Just a thought..

  108. Ah. No answer. Sorry Adrian, he’s not capable of backing up his small statements. They’re obviously just more of his hate.

    So victim is just another homophobic racist bitch.

    What a surprise.

  109. You must have not read about the endemic and systematic rape of boys in Irish institutions by gay men. So of course straights would assume I was that way.I cannot point to any surveys we are any more bigoted than str8s but David Skinner quoted a survey we were the biggest perpetrators of child sexual abuse.So i can really understand the hostility of some str8s.

  110. “the endemic and systematic rape of boys in Irish institutions by gay men.”

    Oh, the Ryan report. Yes, I read it.

    Please quote me the line in the report that says it was “gay men” who instigated these attacks.

    Do, please. Enlighten me.

  111. “David Skinner quoted a survey we were the biggest perpetrators of child sexual abuse.”

    No he didn’t. Why are you lying now?

  112. To repeat, stop being such an imbecile Victim. Gay men did not rape boys. David Skinner’s survey appeared in which peer-reviewed scientific journal? david Skinner admits to knowing notihng about science by the way, why do you trust him as opposed to the overwhelming number of medical professionals who say there is NO connectio between paedophilia and homosexuality?

    Since we have someone who is determined to repeat a lie – repeated by someone who needs others to blame for his own problems, and the gay community is a very convenient target – I will repeat the APA’s position on paedophilia. I hope I don’t have to do this too may more times….

    “EASIER TO NAUSEATE THAN TO EDUCATE
    It doesn’t matter how often the lie is repeated; it still remains false. Dr. Michael R. Stevenson conducted an exhaustive review of the literature in 2000, and concluded that “a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children,”… The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists and the American Psychological Association41 are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.”

  113. FOR THE FOURTH TIME, WILL YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION:
    VIctim claimed:
    “Telling the truth about the bigotry of gays is not inciting hatred and I finally get it.”

    So, what evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to be bigoted than straight people? Have you conducted a survey, for instance? Let’s hear it, here and now, complete with references in peer reviewed journals. Over to you Victim…..

  114. No Will you are wrong I am not racist because I assumed that I was experiencing bigotry in Ireland but it was well justified. The Irish just knew of the pedophile tendencies of many gay men.So Irish str8s really have no case to answer for they were just trying to protect children. So this in fact makes them commendable for protecting the innocent from child molesters, they have nothing to answer for but the gay abusers do. I am not homophobic just because we represent a disproportionate amount of child sexual abusers.

  115. Victim, answer the question, you mindless coward. All I have seen form you so far is a fool with extreme mental and learning difficulties and a chip on your shoulder the size of a cadenza.

  116. You’re not even gay, are you? This is all a charade just so you can spout2gay molester” crap. Its all lies. You’re lies. One yhing is certian, you are retarded…. no one with half a braoin would think like that.

    Oh, and I’m Irish, so cut the crap that “we all hate the gays”. Ireland is more advance than you sick little mind. Dont offend my country with your lies.

  117. Victim post93 “Telling the truth about the bigotry of gays is not inciting hatred and I finally get it.”

    Victim, post 109″ I cannot point to any surveys we are any more bigoted than str8s…”

    So, on what basis do you claim that gays are bigoted? or do you admit to not knowing what you are talking about?

  118. You are right Will people in Ireland do not hate the gays because they have recently been tricked into believing the misleading lies about gays not being pedophiles. The Irish are a great bunch of people and will never accept there children being raped by predators.

  119. Victim: What evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to abuse children than straight people?

    By evidence, I mean a white paper, thesis or survey, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

  120. This is pointless. Believe what you want. But know this, the vast majority of people do not share your believe, in Ireland and elsewhere.

    You are a sickeni9ng little person. I’ve never said this before to anyone, but I’m glad your retarded, it proves to be that their is kara in life. You’re retarded because you deserve to be, with those sickening opinions.

    I give up, Adrian. This man is a troll. He’s not gay. And he’s not normal. Its like a broken record.

  121. i am just going on the opinions of other mentally ill gays who say they cop far more prejudice in gay circles than from str8 circles. We actually have our own circles and some common experience.We are such a tiny demographic no studies have been carried out but it is accepted in mental health circles gay mentally ill people are ernormously stigmatised.But this is all pretty irrelevant considering the outrages perpetrated by gay men towards children.

  122. Sickening. Victim is truly a sickening individual.

    You are the most distasteful person this site has seen in a while, victim. Your views are archaic and ill informed to say the least.

    Clearly your disorder is mental… as in you have the brain power of a walnut.

  123. Victim, i think you should be aware that the outrage over the child sex scandal was not just focused upon the disgusting pedophiles who carried it out, but the people inside the church with in the higher orders and in government who covered it up. Are you going to tell us it was gay people who covered it up now too? perhaps it is the disgusting institution called the roman catholic church who where too cowadice and vile to stand up and expose their own church for what it really is. You have no proof in saying that these pedophiles where gaypeople and as for thousands of people in the order, which stretched all the way to the vatican, who knew about it and allowed it to happen they where certainly not gay but the very people who feed you with the same shit you spout off on here. So when it comes to you checking your sources of your information I would advise taking a closer look at the people you are listening to. If you are infact gay I would advise that you seriously try and get some proper help. If you take the right steps for youself now then perhaps one day you will find happiness within youself and accept who you are like we have done, because at the moment you sound like a twisted manically unhappy person, don’t worry I would be too if I had been caught in the grasp of these vile wicked religious nuts who seem intent of screwing up your life.

  124. That’s true.

    It costs me little to copy and paste the same unanswered question.

    If I happen to be absent, keep repeating this question and don’t let him evade and move on to another topic. PinkNews will have to simply ban people like this, or these newsthreads will become tedious. If the moderators think lies can be told on this thread, then there is no option of course.

    To repeat: What evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to abuse children than straight people?

    By evidence, I mean a white paper, thesis or survey, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

  125. And the record goes on and on….. same old tired message. Over. And Over. And Over.

    Yawn.

    You’re not gay, victim, you are just a sad troll.

    I love that I’m better than you.

  126. Actually Will your country is now home to a large number of immigrants and it is much theirs as yours so cut out the nationalistic fanaticism.I am so gay and I intend to tell the world what a bunch of paedos gay men really are.

  127. You maybe better than me Will but at least i dont rape little boys.

  128. VICTIM, FOR THE THIRD TIME
    What evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to abuse children than straight people?

    By evidence, I mean a white paper, thesis or survey, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal

  129. “I am so gay and I intend to tell the world what a bunch of paedos gay men really are.”

    Maybe you are a “paedo” [sic], you demenetd freak, but the rest of us are fairly normal, cheers.

    Whats wrong victim, can’t answer Adrian’s questions? It is a hard question, I understand that you’re not that clever. Maybe Adrian should make it easier for you? Maybe its just not in your ability’s to answer based on logic and reason. Maybe you;’re a fool?

    Not only are you a fool. You’re a twisted fuck, you know that. Twisted and retarded.

  130. The kinsey report show that many gay men have sex with minors. Full stop.

  131. victim are you sure you are not just a pedophile? see where you have gone wrong quite simply is that you want to have sex with children. gay men want to have sex with other gay men. See how simply that was cleared up. if you want to do society a favour get on the buzzer to the police and let them know so they can place you on the sex offenders register and ensure the safety of children in your town

  132. “You maybe better than me Will but at least i dont rape little boys.”

    I you are gay, then logically, by your own argument you do.
    Like raping boys, do you?

    Freak.

  133. Victim: Why should we believe you are less lilely to rape boys than Will, especially when child abuse occupies your mind night and day, judging by your deranged posts?

  134. Auctally Will im one of the few gay men who is not a paedophile.

  135. He’s a boy rapist, that’s why. He’s gay. All gays rape boys. Ergo, he rapes boys.

  136. “Auctally Will im one of the few gay men who is not a paedophile.”

    No you’re noe. You’re a sick child abuser.

  137. No wonder the Irish ran you out of Ireland, you sick bastard.

  138. The Kinsey Report… No ‘full stop’ about anything. ‘Full stop’ is not a reason. Tell me about the findings, the methadology, and what modern science thinks about paedophilia now.

    Actually, have you any data, from the last 15 years, to support your claim?

  139. I could actually tell the police of a few gay men who have admited to these tendencies.The gay community protects the sick paedos in its ranks. Going off now hope I pissed you off you buch of sexual deviants.

  140. Yawn.

    Predictably dull response.

    Bored now.

    Let me just say on parting, victim, you must be the biggest arsehole who walked the planet. You’re obsession with young boys is distasteful. And your intelligence is beneath an argument with someone like me.

    You should toss yourself and that mentally retarded brain of yours off a cliff, you’re not fit to exist in normal society.

    Good day to you, you sir are a prize buffoon.

  141. Why should we believe you, when you say you are one of the few not to rape boys? After all, you refuse to believe anyone else.

    People who make a point of having to tell people this make me suspicious.

  142. Gawd…!
    ALL OF YOU..!
    JUST TURN OFF THE OXYGEN…THE FLAME WILL GO OUT BY ITSELF…GOOD NIGHT.
    K
    X

  143. The Irish dont even respect the democratic will of Ulster to remain in the U.K Will so they dont even understand the concept of consent. Just like the paedos in the church institutions of Eire.

  144. Oh, god, its still going on. How boring.

    YAWN.

  145. victim I am finding you extreemly boring now, so much so I am not going to indulge your peadophilic tendancies any more by reading or replying to your thred. It is safe to say that most people on here have tried to help you by educating you and showing you that you can not only be happy if you accept you are gay, but you have the right to be happy. it is your responsibility to listen and take the steps on your own we cant do that for you.

    Otherwise it seems you are capable of listening, we are all powerless to help you. your purpose on here seems only to berate us gay people, very christian of you. however much i would like to call you for what you really are, a vile, twisted little freak. I do realise that it is not entirley your fault, you can at least take comfort in the fact that a warped mallicious religion has ruined your life and turned you in to what you are today. but in saying that you are the only one who can change that, the responsibility is on your shoulders. if you want to die a lonely hate-filled man with not a soul in the world who really loves you then that is your fate to choose, and would be one that is quite deserving of a disgusting troll like youself.
    Peace

  146. It is true that there are heterosexual and homosexual paedophiles.

    *What is interesting is how Victim focuses on homosexual paedophiles but ignores heterosexual paedophiles.

    *What is interesting is how Victims focuses on UK issues without actually being in the UK

    *What is interesting is how victim tries to justify that violence towards LGBT people might be acceptable, and this he/she does by being obsessed with the idea that gay men are predominately paedophiles

    Paranoia . . .

  147. Victim, for the 4th time: what evidence do you have that gays are more likely to be child abusers?

    Provide real evidence, not a report from 60 years ago. The whole of modern medicine does not agree with you. ‘Full stop’ is not an answer.

    What is more lilkely, that all of science is dramatically, catastrophically, ignominiously wrong, or that you are just determined to promote a lie? Since you are noted for telling lies, and not knowing what you are talking about, it’s far more lilely tpo be the latter.

    I assure you, It doesn’t piss me off to expose you as a moron and an imbecile who does not know what he is talking about.

  148. Nurse…!
    Nuuurrse.!
    NNNNNNNNuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssssssse!
    The OXYGEN…!
    Turn it oFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF..!
    Hahahaha…
    Jees!
    k

  149. I started this shindig at 8.30 this morning with my crap on #77
    Where is we now?
    3pm same day @ #148.
    That’s over 70 posts in a day on this one subject, practically; this one ‘patient’.
    The National Health Service isn’t as good!
    That’s some hornet’s nest…
    K

  150. Keith – A social failure who calls himself Victim, and who needs psychiatric help, strayed onto this site. He screwed up all his life chances, and therefore everyone else but himself is to blame, and especially gay people.

    Because he is such a failure, he wants everyone to think that gay people abuse kids, and gay people are more bigoted than anyone else in society.

    We simply keep asking him to provide evidence, and of course, he can’t, because it’s all been manufactured in his deranged lithium-addled mind, and in any case, as he points out, he’s not here to have a rational debate, but as in post 139, just to ‘piss off you faggots’.

    PinkNews is probably being read by millions of people, so statistically, out of so many people, there will always be one or two who are: a. religious nuts (‘david skinner’); b. psycopaths (‘villain’) c. in need of serious psychiatric help (‘victim’).

  151. Agreed Adrian. No matter what, we should never sit back and allow these degenerates to speak their filth over our voice. You are right, “victim” is psychopathic and most defiantly a sociopath.

    As the great Irish statesman, Edmund Burke, once said “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”

  152. Aha, Edmund Burke, the damned royalist!!!

    Am more Thomas Paine myself ;-) (Although, after MPs paying for duck houses and TVs on the state, my republican tendencies are on hold.)

  153. Time for a few more beers…………..

    Look, if anyone comes on here and makes the same dumb, unproven claims, please cut and paste previous challenges that have still to be answered.

  154. AdrianT (81):

    ‘Untruths cannot lie there unchallenged for all to read. Why should we accomodate such defamation?’

    True enough, if fact, very, very true.

    I believe you have said that because I had previously said that censorship would not be tolerated by the LGBT population or by PinkNews.

    However, having read what people like David Skinner, Reality Check, Louise and now Victim have done to disrupt and make a mockery of PinkNews, I am ready to suggest censorship in the following way, a way that is used by other gay sites that I visit.

    In the first place, I find that access to PinkNews is childsplay. Anyone can visit the site and leave a comment of any kind.

    There are gay websites that ask for your full name, address and phone number and require that you register a password in order to have access to the news it provides and to leave a comment. This provides the website with a profile of each reader. What’s wrong with that? It may even create a job or two.

    I have encountered this a number of times and I have never hesitated to fill in every detail. The only problem I have is keeping track of my passwords because I have so many and no two are alike, but that’s my fault for neglecting to organize my paperwork.

    There are also sites which I have refused to give the required details; these sites usually contain gay porn and frankly, I know it’s an industry and sooner or later I will be asked to take out my credit card.

    Also, see one porn film, see them all; and none of them captures the feelings, the love and affection of real gay sex, and I find them boring. They are so mechanical, if you know what I mean; so unrelated to a loving couple’s sexperience.

    Furthermore, in your post 124 you said:

    ‘PinkNews will have to simply ban people like this, or these newsthreads will become tedious.’

    You could just as easily have said ‘…these newsthreads have become tedious’.

    The webmaster or moderator of PinkNews could be approached and asked if he/she is aware that these crackpots are harassing us. It would just take a click to block any one of them once there is sufficient evidence and support from us to rid ourselves of such rubbish.

    Life for us is already enough of a challenge, and visiting PinkNews should be a relaxing experience of learning, sharing and dialoguing, joking around and laughing at ourselves from time to time.

    If the moderator could act as a bouncer at a gay club, I agree wholeheartedly with you. As far as problems arising from ‘censorship’, we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

    Finally, I am a big fan of the Kinsey Report, although I know very well that it is older than I am. If reading the report is challenging – and it is – then I would recommend a film entitled ‘KINSEY’, starring Liam Neeson and Laura Linney put out by 20th Century Fox and nominated for three Golden Globe nominations including ‘Best Picture – Drama’. It includes a full length Audio Commentary by Writer/Director Bill Condon, is 118 minutes long, and dates from 2004. Available at Amazon dot com or at www dot kinseydvd dot com. A most enlightening film expeience. I have three copies of it!

    There is one 3 minute scene where a pedophile homosexual presents himself for an interview with Doctor Kinsey, and it is clear that Kinsey is revolted by this man’s boasting, does not take any notes, and gives him an unmistakable hint to close the door behind him.

    I’s absolutely incredible how much I’ve learned about the problems faced by the LGBT population in the UK and how adept you all are at challenging them, ‘not allowing lies to go unchallenged.

    It’s a 5-star website, and it could only get better by a bit of censorship.

  155. Victim – I’ll keep it short and sweet… do yourself a favour – change your therapist. I have a fair working knowledge of psychology and your current shrink is not doing their job properly and appears to be sending you deeper into that self-loathing rabbit-hole.
    Good luck getting your head sorted.

  156. A whole 11 hours without any nutcases on this thread. A record….

  157. david skinner 25 May 2009, 12:27am

    It is very obvious that some on this site cannot withstand being challenged; their convictions are simply not strong enough. Their foundations are very shaky. What people object to from me cannot be deliberate disruption, insult, defamation of character, slander, hatred of another human being, or being deliberately dishonest- in fact all that which I and others who dissent from the consensus of opinion on this site experience by the bucket load. (If I have done so and someone can point out such an example, I readily apologise).
    Why certain parties want me and others to be banned from here is that they cannot face the truth. They fear the light and prefer the darkness. But let me say that which is done in the dark and secret, eventually is broadcast from the roof tops anyway.

    On the topic of Kinsey, there is no way he could have got the clinical statistics that he had on the sexual behaviour of children except by subjecting them to sexual experiments or getting others, like his Nazi colleage Dr Fritz von Balluseck to do it for him:

    “In the same sordid vein, Kinsey relied on consultants — in the form of paedophiles — to gather added information on the sexual responses of children. One of these men was a notorious child—molester named Rex King, who was responsible for the rape of over eight—hundred children. This predator related to Kinsey numerous stories about his child rape in graphic detail, information that Kinsey considered to be merely ‘scientific research.’
    Another one of these men was Dr. Fritz Von Balluseck, a Nazi paedophile who contributed to Kinsey’s research between 1936 and 1956. While on trial in a case that involved the murder of ten—year—old Loiselotte Has, it was revealed that Von Balluseck was regularly sending Kinsey details of his experiences with children. The court even discovered letters that Kinsey mailed to the Nazi encouraging him to continue his ‘research.’ In fact, so enthusiastic was Kinsey’s correspondence with the child molester and so egregious his indifference to the plight of the man’s victims, that the presiding judge, Dr. Henrich Berger, frequently expressed outrage at Kinsey for not reporting Von Balluseck to the authorities.” (American thinker: Re-whitewashing Alfred Kinsey)

    A writer who was a great defender or Kinsey and who naturally hated Judith Reisman and her expose, made this disarming admission of some of his sexual behaviour, as though they were mild eccentricities, rather than perversions.

    “Now we get into sensitive, embarrassing, but, less than frightening territory. Towards the end of his life, Kinsey enjoyed urethral stimulation, that is, sounding his penis, a variation, as he might have said, somewhat “rare”, but nowadays not unknown. (In fact, a piece of male jewelry, the so-called “Prince’s Wand” has been devised to do just that.) He also enjoyed experimenting with rough play to his scrotum, mild strangulation, play-piercing, and one fine day, circumcised himself in the bath. While all these are also “rare”, and doubtlessly dangerous, in no way do I see them compromising his findings: it speaks volumes about his so-called bias that he didn’t make these “rarer” parts of his personality the centrepiece of his writing.
    It’s true that at one point, also late in his life, he suffered an inflammation of the scrotum. This is commonly the result of a viral infection elsewhere; certainly it seems to have been so in his case (a bad cold with a sore throat). As I pointed out, he died of a disengaged blood clot sustained while working in the garden, not of some exotic sexual activity.”

    Let me say it again sexual behaviour can only be between one man and one woman in a permanent relation. It cannot be adulterous, polygamous, polyamorous, bestial, incestuous, or homosexual, no matter how consensual, loving and intimate. Paedophilia is difficult to define because in the past our ancestors, especially our girls were married off as soon as they could bear children. Not only was the mother of Henry V11 with child by the age of 13 and a widow by 14 but there are indications that Mary, the mother of Jesus was a teenager. Joan, princess of England, aged 11 married Alexander of Scotland aged 23.

    But the sexual abuse and exploitation of anyone, especially of children by an adult, deserves the severest penalty possible.

    Sir Elton John, in 1999 was accused of putting on a concert, celebrating paedophilia in the Albert Hall. His lurid stage performance with six teen-age strippers wearing Cub Scout uniforms, at a gala London event honouring the homosexual rights group Stonewall, was both applauded and condemned.
    The strippers, all 18- and 19-year-old professionals, were wearing Cub Scout uniforms and hats when Elton John took the hand of each “scout” and introduced them to the VIP audience at London’s Albert Hall, that included, Toney Blair’s wife, Cherie.
    Following their introduction, the teen-agers began to strip off their uniforms — which are worn by real scouts between the ages of 7 and 11 — revealing “tight undies,” according to the British Internet publication The Sun.
    The striptease was performed to the song, “It’s a sin,” by the notorious homosexual band, the Pet Shop Boys, and included such suggestive behaviour as strippers kneeling before Elton John in obscene poses while grabbing their crotches.
    Child and family advocacy groups were outraged at the display.
    “Stonewall should be condemned for holding boys up as sex objects,” said Valerie Riches, head of Family and Youth Concern, a British pro-family organization).

  158. David . . . still obsessed with sex I see.

    As you pointed out your self, the gay dances where adults. The only thing that was perverse was your vivid imagination, and the over active imaginations of a plethora of Christian fundamentalist youth and family groups.

    Nice try David . . . always reliable in being at hand to insinuate, distort and pervert reality for Jesus.

  159. The supposed Jesus of Nazareth reportedly warned his followers, cf Matt 5:11, to expect riducule, or worse, because others would think their beliefs to be ridiculous. And, in the case of cranks like David Skinner, it is a moral obligation to express this. I really don’t understand what you complain about – when people mock you, for being the sex-obsessed nutcase you are, surely, it gives you a share in Calvary?

    Just to clear this up: if you post lies, make unscientific claims, write nonsense about gay people being more likely to be child abusers, you must expect derision. You will get it in bucketloads. You cannot take the criticism, least of all defend your viewpoint with anything more than anecdote or wildly skewed data, misinterpreted by extremists in America. You said yourself, you are totally ignorant about Science: you haven’t a clue about sexuality and it shows. The world has moved on from the knowledge level of Palestinian 1st century peasants.

    “Let me say it again sexual behaviour can only be between one man and one woman in a permanent relation.” – That’s not the case. Do you want me to make a drawing for you, to show why you are wrong on this issue?

    LGBT people can and do settle down in loving relationships and all they want, Skinner, is to be left in peace. It’s not for religious busybodies you to impose your superstitious nonsense on other people.

  160. The reason why I want you banned Skinner, is because you post a pack of lies, repeatedly, on one post to the next.

    Especially with regard to the ’30 sexual orientations’.

    People at the APA, who are experts in how the brain works, have given a very plausible explanation why only FOUR sexual orientations are classified as such. Check the website, check the citations.

    You of course, haven’t done any such research (I do’t think you know what research is for that matter), I doubt you have even visited the APA website. It’s clear from your post that you just cut and paste from the AMerican Family Association website, who tell you what you should think. It’s chldish.

    You have been blown out of the water – if you want to make airheaded claims about gays being child abusers, you best back up your statements with evidence from peer reviewed scientific journals, and give me a quality rating for the journal in question.

    As for 19 year olds in scout uniform… if it pisses off a religious fanatic, fine by me. It proves absolutely nothing.

    Absolutely no differet to what happens in Strongfellows’ clubs, I imagine, every weekend, except with female gogo dancers.

  161. JUST TO REPEAT, TO STOP PEOPLE LYING FOR JESUS AGAIN:

    “The APA Defines Thirty Sexual Orientations” (cf Box Turtle Bulletin, see references on May 11th 2009 news page)

    The American Psychiatric Association’s official definition is not much different from the federal government’s. The APA’s official handbook, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV-TR, 2000) offers a very precise definition of how clinicians should describe a client’s sexual orientation:

    “Specifiers
    For sexually mature individuals, the following specifiers may be noted based on the individual’s sexual orientation: Sexually Attracted to Males, Sexually Attracted to Females, Sexually Attracted to Both, and Sexually Attracted to Neither. ”

    In other words, the APA defines only FOUR sexual orientations. And they do so in order to provide a consistent description of an individual’s sexual orientation. It is not a diagnosis itself, since homosexuality is not listed as a mental disorder. And just so everyone’s clear on exactly what the APA means by their very short description of sexual orientation, they provided an expanded discussion on their web site:

    “Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female), and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).”

    Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only).

    So where did the list of thirty “sexual orientations” come from? Let’s turn again to the APA’s DSM-IV-TR under the heading of “Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders,” namely the APA’s examples of sexual paraphilias:

    “The Paraphilias are characterized by recurrent, intense sexual urges, fantasies, or behaviors that involve unusual objects, activities, or situations and cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The Paraphilias include Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotteurism, Pedophilia, Sexual Masochism, Sexual Sadism, Transvestic Fetishism, Voyeurism, and Paraphilia Not Otherwise Specified.”

    The DSM goes further, identifying specific criteria for diagnosing these various paraphilias, something that the DSM does not do for sexual orientation. And the reason is simple: sexual paraphilias are mental disorders according to the DSM, while homosexuality is not. Which is why the DSM devotes several pages to sexual paraphilias — and describes them as an impairment to normal functioning — but just a few words to consensual adult homosexuality, heterosexuality or bisexuality, which the APA reminds us “is not an illness, a mental disorder, or an emotional problem.”

    So just to be clear:

    Sexual orientation is STRICTLY LIMITED to the realms of homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality.
    All the other stuff — pedophilia, exhibitionism, masochism, and the other twenty-seven paraphilias are NOT sexual orientations.
    The proposed hate crime laws covers only sexual orientation, and not paraphilias.

    In other words, you can still punch a pedophile and not risk running afoul of the proposed hate crime law. I wouldn’t recommend it — you’d still be liable for assault charges, but there would be no federal hate crime enhancements involved.

    If you won’t believe me, then how about Dr. Jack Drescher? He’s a member of the APA’s DSM-V Workgroup on Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders, one of the groups working on the next revision of the APA’s manual. He confirmed everything I said, and went further:

    Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, nor would pedophiles be covered by a law protecting people for their sexual orientation. Religious social conservatives who oppose gay rights are using terms that sound like science, as opposed to actual science, to make unwarranted and malicious comparisons between homosexuality and pedophilia. Not only is this scare tactic untruthful, it reveals how little respect some religious conservative leaders have for the intelligence of the people they are trying to persuade.

    It is indeed a scare tactic, and anti-gay activists know full well that it is a blatant distortion of the APA’s position on sexual orientation and paraphilias. Remember, Dobson holds a Ph.D. in psychology. He clearly knows that he’s lying, and he has chosen to do so as a deliberate tactic. There’s simply no other plausable explanation. And as the bill comes closer to passing and being signed into law, their rhetoric is likely to get worse, not better. Stay tuned.
    (Author: Jim Burroway)

    Check the references for yourselves;

  162. AdrianT:

    Let’s have him banned. Let’s get together, sign a petition and hand it in to PinkNews threatening to abstain from this website if this psychopath is not banned.

    Look how much of your time this is taking!

    Where do I sign? I’m serious. Life is for living, and it’s too short for this kind of merry-go-round.

    How can I not support you, Adrian, but basta! Enough is enough.

    You’ve had him down a number of times; it’s like you say, he’s cutting and pasting and is probably not alone, got a bunch of dunces doing the cutting & pasting for him or her.

    Plus, he’s got nothing else to do. If anything, the guy is suicidal and yelling for help. So let’s help him either to a psychatric ward or to a spot on the London Bridge where he could easily throw himself into empty space (that wasn’t very kind of me, eh?)

    But I’m fed up. There are other interesting threads.

    I know you’re not going to listen to me…

  163. “Let me say it again sexual behaviour can only be between one man and one woman in a permanent relation.”

    Now there’s one really, really, stupid statement. Well done David. I suppose its why NO straight people cheat…. wonder what the 75% failure rate of marriage is caused by? Hmmmm. How perplexing.

    Victim must have taken too much meds and is sleeping off the gin he used to wash them down.

    You should try meds Davis…. lithium, perhaps.

  164. david skinner 25 May 2009, 7:46am

    John K, maybe your right ; I should not be on this site for I can see I am only tightening the knot of your thinking and driving you even further into a terrible darkness – the same darkness inhabited by those tortured souls, Ian McKellen and Elton John and tragically, for Garry Frisch and Kevin Greening, a permanent and eternal darkness. The same sun that melts butter also hardens and bakes clay. Truth acts not only on the mind alone but the heart and will and I sense that far from soften your heart and will it is in fact turning it to stone.

    And if this is me being blown out the water and out of the count I dread to think what might happen if I was up on my feet: I would be a real danger to you.

    It is no good quoting psychiatrists; they are all in need of the cure themselves. Neither is it any good to elevate science to being the ultimate and absolute source of all truth, for plainly scientist themselves can be mad and bad. You seem to be suggesting that they inhabit some realm, far away from us that is absolutely objective . Scientists themselves are often in disagreement or having their theories overturned. It was the scientists and psychiatrists in America during the early part of the 20th century, whilst doing experiments on all classes of vulnerable people who laid the ground for what happened in Germany and their so -called scientific experiments on Jews, children, twins, the disabled etc.

    Obviously you cannot stand up like men but have to run to mother. There is healing for that. Why don’t you contact NARTH?

    On the question of my seeming obsession with sex. Sexual attract, the libido, romantic love and strong affection etc do not exist isolated from the rest of the system. The pleasure of driving a car, steering and braking do not exist in isolation from driving on real roads. My driving can bring me the greatest of pleasure but if ignore the road system and road signs I will wreck the car and maybe injure and kill others – and myself. Sex, romance and deep affection do bring me the greatest of pleasure but if I ignore the road layout and signs by flirting with someone else’s wife, committing adultery – even in my mind- using sex for any other purpose except to bring intimacy to the one I have promised to love until I die, I will destroy not only my own life but all those associated with me.

    What obsesses me is that the LGBTs are the weapon being used by Marxists to bring down western society.

  165. “Obviously you cannot stand up like men but have to run to mother. There is healing for that. Why don’t you contact NARTH?”

    Ah, now the truth is out.

    He’s ex-gay.

    I knew it had to be something like that. Ah, the whole failure that is ex-gay… sad really. Never works, you know David. Can’t work. Its all religious nonsense. And THAT is a proven fact.

    NARTH are noting more than a group of uneducated quacks who use rather dubious (to but it mildly) made-up figures to “prove” their biased case. They are neither scientific or rational. No one in the scientific community takes then seriously except desperate religious types looking to validate their hate with any old crap, like you, and people with personality disorders who have are too weak to come out, again like you.

    So please stop quoting pseueo science like you know what you’re talking about. You’re ignorance offends me.

    Ex-gay. Please. Its a very contradiction in terms.

  166. “What obsesses me is that the LGBTs are the weapon being used by Marxists to bring down western society.”

    Proof?

    No proof?

    Oh. Dear. No proof.

    Will, quite right on the ex-gay. How sad. David has no proof either.

  167. Pumpkin Pie 25 May 2009, 9:27am

    What? When the heck did this thread get so big? Damn, I’ve got some catching up to do.

    Just an FYI, Skinnydip’s brought up NARTH totally out of context in a previous comments thread, too. The ex-gay hypothesis sounds very likely.

  168. Agreed Pumkin Pie… sounds like he’s doing the usual tactic they often do, shake our convictions with religious nonsense, and see if they can offer “help”, via NARTH, to the weaker potentials. He’s not going to find any in here…. as if I’d give up my life, my very person, and my beautiful boyfriend simply becuase he can’t deal with being gay??? Please. Barking in the wrong neck of the woods, let alone the wrong tree!

  169. “What obsesses me is that the LGBTs are the weapon being used by Marxists to bring down western society.”

    Wow…. now I’m a Communist????? And a Weapon? A weapon of what? Are we going to bring down the world with loving stable relationships? Is that what Lennin did, make all the queers march in pride and then the Tsar’s fell? Must be if Davis says so.

    I love this Skinner chap, he makes up the biggest load of rubbish! What a laugh. He doesn’t really expect anyone to take him seriously with lines like that, does he?

  170. ‘fraid so, Majella.

    Maybe the USSR flag should have been pink, with a hair-dryer and a brush instead of a hammer and sickle? And all those May Day Parades are really Gay Pride marches in disguise? And Fidel Casto… that beard. The uniform. Clearly a bear! And they named a gay district after him….

    ….OH. MY. GOD. Its all making sense now. I’m a communist! Rally unto me, comrades, for we must bring down the Western capitalist pigs with our fabulous dress sense, higher incomes and education, and wonderful monogamous relationships!

    Wow, you’re right Majella, David hit the nail on the head. He’s soooo clever, is our David. And he never went to school or ‘nuthin.

    Better dead than, er, pink, as McCarthy said!

  171. Alex, Brisbane, Qld, Australia 25 May 2009, 10:50am

    Having read thru all the posts (excellent words – Will; Adrian T; Jean-Paul to name just a few) I have to ask, would ‘David Skinner’ and ‘victim’ be one and the same person..? I’m wondering if one morphs into the other as the meds take effect? Just asking…

  172. “It is no good quoting psychiatrists; they are all in need of the cure themselves.”
    – Psychiatrists who happen to understand how the mind works. These people tend to be better placed to understand sexuality.

    “Neither is it any good to elevate science to being the ultimate and absolute source of all truth, for plainly scientist themselves can be mad and bad. You seem to be suggesting that they inhabit some realm, far away from us that is absolutely objective .”

    – Science works. Spaceships and aeroplanes fly, magic carpets and broomsticks don’t. Science is a method – the only method – of finding out what we know about the natural world. It is based on evidence, – real, hard facts – from which we make hypotheses and predictions that can be tested. Everyone is welcome to scrutinise scientific evidence for themselves – or even come up with a better theory to explain the facts.

    “Scientists themselves are often in disagreement or having their theories overturned.”

    True; if the evidence is strong enough, and someone comes along with a better theory, all well and good. There is no such thing as ‘absolute truth’ in Science.

    “It was the scientists and psychiatrists in America during the early part of the 20th century, whilst doing experiments on all classes of vulnerable people who laid the ground for what happened in Germany and their so -called scientific experiments on Jews, children, twins, the disabled etc.”

    Actually that’s a very valid point. Is untamed Science a force for evil?

    Reason is the only weapon in science. Of course what happened in germany was disgusting. The premise that Jewish people were sub-human was unchallengeable, unalterable political ideology, not based on any science. Scientists were forced into the Heritage Foundation, told of Himmler’s theories (based on Nordic mythology), and told to go out and prove them.

    Ethics and medicine have gone hand in hand since the time of Hippocrates, 4th century BC. Medics swear by the Hippocratic Oath, which among others includes the lines:

    “I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone. I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan;”

    All medical bodies have their own ethical codes today. People who transgress them get struck off.

    Science is democratic. Anyone can challenge the findings. Find a rabbit fossil in devonian rock strata and evolution theory will fall like a pack of cards. It’s actually through people like Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Pasteur, Darwin, that the tyranny of the church has been eclipsed, and thankfully so.

    Science itslef is amoral. We have to use our innate sense of right and wrong to use the findings of science responsibly and ethically. But Science’s findings are an important basis for opur moral code. Pasteur showed that microbes were responsible for disease, not judgements from god. Darwin obliterated any racist argument put forward by the BNP and other neo nazis: we are all Africans. The Hubble telescope tells us, the universe was not made with us in mind.

    Scientific method is a much better basis for morality – along with the golden rule for instance. Science tells us morality has evolved within us, over millions of years (cf Matt Ridely, ‘origins of virtue'; R Dawkins ‘selfish gene’)

    The laws of science apply in exactly the same way on the Reguliersdwaasstraat in Amsterdam, as they do around that granite Kaaba in Mecca and the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. Science unites us, religion divides us.

    Our biggest problem is that we have advanced science to the stage where we could kill ourselves at the touch of a button, while we cling on the childish 1st and 7th century superstition. That combination – apocalyptic weaponry, messianic prophecy – could be the end of the human race (Ahmedinejad actually thinks the destruction of Israel will lead to the return of the 12th Imam; many Americans look forward to the end of the world too, see the ‘Left Behind’ videos). We may well be lucky to survive this century.

    PAUL CAMERON
    – There will always be evil people in Science. Dr Paul Cameron, in the USA, is one. He runs the Family Research Institute, an organisation campaigning for the re-criminalisation of homosexuality. He has led a propaganda war on LGBT people, for about 3 decades now, pumping out heavily skewed data that people (gay people have a life expectancy of 42, more likely to be child abusers etc). People like you use his statstics, when making ludicrous claims about gays bringing down society. But when you look into his methodologies, you find the sampling is completely flawed.

    NARTH…..
    Talking about NARTH – this is also very poor science. On close analysis of the results, very few people actually succeed in changing. Plenty of people who become desexualised, for sure. Still, if you want to waste thousands of pounds on that, be my guest. What is the premise here? That gay people need to change in the first place? It is almost entirely supported by religious organisations after all.

  173. Actually, keep allowing this fool to post. It is entertaining, provided people can be bothered to lampoon him sufficiently.

    David Skinner said “What obsesses me is that the LGBTs are the weapon being used by Marxists to bring down western society.”

    It’s been asked bofore, so I repeat the earlier challenge:
    Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. I want to hear some rock solid evidence here, on the scale of the Fossil Record.

  174. David Skinner said: “Sex, romance and deep affection do bring me the greatest of pleasure but if I ignore the road layout and signs by flirting with someone else’s wife, committing adultery – even in my mind- using sex for any other purpose except to bring intimacy to the one I have promised to love until I die, I will destroy not only my own life but all those associated with me.”

    All of this is irrelevant to this conversation, and has nothing to do with gay people who are perfectly happy without interference from religious busybodies.

  175. JP: Indeed. “Let’s have him banned….Look how much of your time this is taking!”

    Precisely. I have watched one thread after the next being taken over by a couple of fanatics with irrelevant screeds. The Canterbury story for instance – people from that area probably had some intelligent things to say, drowned out by the Skinner Loonybin Crusade For Our Nation, long lists of sexual fetishes and and why the earth is 6,000 years old. I’m happy to demolish these arguments, but it becomes like Groundhog Day after a while. Poeple who keep posting lies, after having them debunked, or refuse to provide evidence to back up their claims, should be made unwelcome, plain and simple.

    In a normal situation, out in the street, we can leave these people with their placards, to wail and scream and shout and feed the pigeons. Here, of course, we have no way of ignoring them – and for that very reason, it attracts sad and lonely, attention starved people (Victim for instance, ‘I’m glad to see I’ve created a stir again…’).

    What we need is a proper forum, where such fools can make their own threads, or talk among themselves. Rather than a petition, send an e-mail to the editorial department of PinkNews.

  176. Adrian I partly agree with you in thread 174.

    I agree this is some what off topic and a distraction.

    I disagree in that it does have relevance to LGBT issues. Mr Skinner has not answered my previous question as to why he turns a blind eye to polygamy in the Anglican Communion. He ignores this by instead focuses on LGBT issues, and a fantasy of idealised romantic heterosexuality so that he can keep the reality of polygamy in the Anglican church hidden.

    Hypocrisy . . . is the word here

    With regards having him banned . . . I just feel this will fuel his Marxist/communist paranoia even more. . . personally I think he should stay because he is entertaining at times and also educational. . . I would like to know when the next NARTH conference is planned so that we can try and stop it from taking place.

  177. Even though some of these posts can become quite repeatative I am still continually impressed by a lot of the arguments the community counter people like Skinner and victim with. People have put a lot of thought in how they structure their arguments and time into backing them ub with reliable facts and sources. Perhaps Skinner and Victim are lost causes but i think a lot of people come on this sight who are less terminal cases than these two and having people like Skinner and Victim inspire sure good discussion only helps thoes people realise the lies that the church and its propeganda machine spew. Just for the fact that Skinner and Victim persit on commin here suggests to me that despite being so deeply so deeply repressed on some level they are just clawing to have some connection with the gay community. Dont get me wrong I have left comments directed at the both of them which have been less than sympathetic but just for that fact perhaps one day they will actually read one of the replies and see that what they have been told is all lies. Regardless if it does help skinner or victim or not I know having read a lot of replies they are extreemly useful for people in the process of comming out especially thoes who live in religious families and have to face people with the same mindset as Skinner and Victim. I say keep up the good work to everyone Pinknews is a great site how it is.

  178. Peter Marshall 25 May 2009, 2:02pm

    Love the posts #169 and #170 are classic, great stuff. Very funny.

  179. david skinner 25 May 2009, 4:04pm

    Well you guys think you have me pretty well summed. I am afraid to disillusion you all but am infinitely more stupid and rascally than any of can imagine. You have only scratched the surface. But you know what? The wisdom of this world and all its glitterati is no match for a teeny tiney bit of true Truth in the hands of such an insignificant knavish fool like myself.

    I have put this up before and I cannot vouch for its authenticity but it makes the point:

    ‘ACTUAL transcript of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. This radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on 10-10-95.
    Americans: “Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.”

    Canadians: “Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.”

    Americans: “This is the captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.”

    Canadians: “No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.”

    Americans: “THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES’ ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH. THAT’S ONE-FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.”

    Canadians: “This is a lighthouse. Your call.”’

  180. Oh, David, you make all your stupidity all sounds so pretty.

    And to to use your puerile example, its we who are the lighthouse, mate. It is we who are winning. Gay marriage, gay rights, religious adoption institutions made give up their centuries old bigotry. Ah, it is indeed a great sight, isn’t it? And what can you do about this…. rant silly quotes on a gay website Tut-tut, how small an action that is, and how futile it must be for you.

    You’re quite the Sisyphus, aren’t you David?

    And all the while the pews empty. We’re a growing tide, and neither lighthouse no ship can ignore us any longer.

    You don’t have any truth to offer, only half baked lies. We all know on this site you are a liar and a charlatan. How sad it must be for you, so trapped and scared. You’re ex-gay, that much is obvious. And that is the saddest and loneliest place to be. Even your febrile rants about god cannot alter that truth.

    Pity, is all that can be afford to you, Mr. Skinner.

  181. Peter Marshall 25 May 2009, 4:26pm

    Well said William, well said indeed! A classic example of your brain power over his insipid rhetoric, old boy.

    Do, David…. Do tell. You support slavery? You seem to take the bible so literally, especially with the nonsense about the earth being 6000 years old (silly, silly man), I am assuming you support ALL the bible?

    Of course you do!

    How many slaves do you have? How many do you think its RIGHT to have, without being greedy, of course? What nations should I aim for?

    The following passages form the good book support this slavery notion, and I am excited about it:-

    Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

    Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

    Leviticus 25:44-45 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

    Do you think I can go to, ohhh, lets say Armenia and buy slaves? Is this okay?

    Do tell, I’d love to have a troop of cleaners for the house, its so big to manage for me and my partner.

  182. Ciaran McMahon 25 May 2009, 4:29pm

    I’d like to hear your answer to Peters point, David.

    Care to answer, or are you too frightened/scared/stupid [delete as applicable]?

  183. David Skinner – Re. Lighthouses… I also read “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” which uses that self-same lighthouse analogy in the final chapter.
    To paraphrase Covey, the lighthouse represents concrete principles, and the aircraft carrier captain represents those who fail to grasp the immutable nature of concrete principles and act as if they don’t apply.
    Trouble is, as with many metaphors, that analogy is only as effective as the person using it, or the peer reviewed empirical evidence they can provide that their opinions constitute an immutable principle. That’s where your use of the analogy stumbles, as “it says so in the Bible” is about as convincing evidence-wise as “it says so in ‘The Iliad'”.
    If that’s your trump card, I’m not impressed. Sure concrete principles exist, but I’ve yet to be convinced that you’d know one if you saw it.

  184. Robert, ex-pat Brit 25 May 2009, 5:27pm

    The Bill says nothing about the difference between an active homosexual and someone who has left the lifestyle but still experiences some same-sex attraction. This distinction is crucial for Christians.”

    Excuse me but when did christian cultists get to describe our lives as lifestyles, as if it were a choice, in other words becoming “ex-gay” that has other implications. Can they explain how one leaves the heterosexual “lifestyle” to become a “homosexual” please, or is there no such thing as “ex-straight”? Why is a straight person’s life never demeaned by calling it a “lifestyle”? To state that ours is, then by the same reasoning, one must suppose that straights must also choose their orientation. I can from a family of three siblings, I was the middle one, my two brothers as far as I know are straight which proves that sexual orientation is not a choice, its who we are, the way we are born. If christian cults and others can’t accept that, then they shouldn’t be calling themselves christians. I don’t recall ever reading that Jesus Christ excluded or judged anyone or tell them they were less worthy than the next man or woman because of who they are.

  185. Ciaran McMahon 25 May 2009, 5:30pm

    Robert, David doesn’t deal in facts. Just mindless statements that he was programmed to regurgitate.

    Its seen in the way he never directly answers any comments or queries.

  186. Wow!
    This fred is motoring, innit!!

    But I would like someone to explain to me what the term ‘ex-gay’ is..
    I am being serious (for once)..

    What does the ‘ex-‘ bit mean..?
    I could not become ‘ex-‘ gay any more than I could ‘ex-blue-eyed’

    Being homosexual is who I am.
    Is it a modern term… or maybe a sarcastic term used for the ‘born again’ fraternity…?
    By ‘ex-‘ do you mean ‘unable to face up to/cannot hack it’…?

    I really would like someone to explain …

    Ta, muchly!

    Keith.

  187. Ciaran McMahon 25 May 2009, 6:01pm

    Ex-gay is someone that, for what reason, to “choose” to no longer be gay, by attending “courses”. These “courses” are usually run by religious institutions, and is essentially a form of brain washing.

    Its utter nonsense, of course. Even with all the scientific evidence that is overwhelming against ex-gay “conversions” (there is zero proof to the ex-gay statements), we, as gay people, know in our hearts we can’t change what we are… whether we like it or not.

    Some famous cases show that ex-gays have always go back to same sex relations, as the brainwashing wears off. It usually leads to depression, suicide and other very harmful philological damage. One side effect to validate and reinforce their “ex-gayness” is to come onto sites like this and try to convert others. Makes them feel better about what they’ve done.

    Ex-gay is another term for weakness.

  188. Just to add to Will’s comment.
    We could scientifically test who should occupy the lighthouse, by radiometric dating of the rocks on which it was built. If over 6,000 years, david has a problem. Otherwise, try powering the searchlight by prayer instead of electricity and see what happens.

  189. TNX CIARAN

    That’s what I thought it was.

    Yes, the Dr. Narcoseptic -and mob -of recent days.
    And the religious order of my young days with their suggestion that I visit the ‘Dr. Narco’ of that time (1959) to be ‘cured’.

    Glad I chose not to bovver and just walked out of the RCC instead.

    As you say…”utter nonsense”…

    Where would I be today if I had followed Father O’ Muffdiver’s advice?
    More of a gibbering looney than I am, that’s for sure.
    K
    tnx again.

  190. That’s right Keith, some people, like Mr. Skinner here, just aren’t as strong as the rest of us. Its why we pity him. Ciaran is quite right, the ex-gay “movement” is utter nonsense. But as acceptance of gay rights grows, and the understanding that homosexuality is a natural part of evolution, then the need by a vast minority for this “ex-gay conversion” will fall away. The ex-gay movement is damaging and petty, and only interested in their selfish motivations.

    Poor David will never know the joy, self-fulfilment, and pride that comes with being “out” and finding a loving partner that will allow him to live as we were designed to live… and all because he takes a few literal lines (selectively, I might add) from an archaic book, rather than open his eyes. Sad really.

  191. Benjamin Cohen 27 May 2009, 9:42pm

    I’m the publisher of PinkNews. We are aware that some of the comments on this article and others have spiraled out of control and have no real relevance to the article itself. We will begin a consultation process with our readers next week to examine the best way forward, not least with the introduction of a report to moderator link for every single comment. Other ideas are welcome to news@pinknews.co.uk.

  192. Hi Ben,

    Don’t be too hasty, your website hit’s are going through the roof!

    With a forum you could red flag individuals and stop them from directly posting comments. Those red flagged individuals’ comments would then go through the moderator to check suitability.

  193. Flapjack, David Skinner used that lighthouse story on another thread on Pink News very recently, I think. Maybe he thinks it unbelievably witty and saves it for his final move?
    My head is absolutely spinning from reading this thread, but I’m mentally applauding you, AdrianT and all the others who dealt with DS and Victim with such patience.

  194. Reality Check 8 Jul 2009, 3:47am

    CRAIG – If the want those Council grants (Tax payers money) then they will now have to support LGBT youth for the money.

    I presume Craig that you will insist that homosexual organisations that get council grants will employ Christians who oppose homosexuality. If not you are a hypocrite.

    CRAIG – A gay man who claimed his feelings had been hurt after a colleague wobbled her breasts at him was awarded £62,500 compensation.

    You are a super sensitive lot

    IRIS – Only for the rabid anti-gay ones who hide their own insecurities by attacking LGBT people with what borders on a clinical obsession.

    I guess it is just like the gaystapo who attack Christians with what is clinical obsession to hide their own insecurities and rejection.

    JP – On the one hand I agree totally with those who say things like: “What kind of a moron would join a homophobic religious institution, let alone work for one”.

    I know you don’t like facts JP, but Derek Prince who had one of the most brilliant minds of the last century was the youngest ever Professor of Philosophy at the age of 25 at Cambridge University. He was also a Christian.

    JP – The RCC needs to lift this suitability for the priesthood thing, another one of Benny’s unilateral decisions, and allow LGBT persons access to the priesthood: women as well as men. Sound crazy?

    Why?

    IRIS – The Christian Institute is, in my opinion, a spiteful little organisation who are determined to persecute one section of society. Their fear-mongering is hysterical and their arguments don’t make any sense.

    Biased and unsubstantiated comment which seems to be your forte. At the last count they dealt with assisted suicide, abortion, designer babies, prostitution, alcohol deaths, unwed dada, Sharia courts, divorce, doctors praying, bad language, condom adverts, gambling, drugs, Christian charity, bus ads, children of divorce, commons speaker, sex education, witches, prayer and Miss California. You my dear Iris are just a fly on the wall so I am sorry to dent your ego in you thinking that you are a major concern to them.

    WILL – There is ample evidence that homosexuality is due to a combination of genetics and pre-natal hormonal conditions.

    Not according to the APA, the friend of the gaystapo.
    “Specifically, in a brochure that first came out about 1998, the APA stated: “There is considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person’s sexuality.”

    However, in the update: a brochure now called, “Answers to Your Questions for a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality,” the APA’s position changed.

    The new statement says:
    “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. …”

    “Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed,” Byrd wrote. “The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.”

    WILL – Skinners argument to the contrary is the bible

    And your argument is contrary to the truth, but then that has never been high on your agenda.

    WILL – Oh, I’m sorry, evolution is a makie-up childrens story, according to Skinner, not like Adam and Eve… that OBVIOUSLY how it all started. I can only assume there must be great money in falsifying the fossil record with fake dinosaur bones.

    And of course we won’t mention the fake missing link like the Piltdown man and several others shall we.

    WILL – Of course it will, end of the world. Like in Spain and Holland, society literally collapsed when they in introduced gay marriage. The sky fell. Fire and brimstone. The rapture. Hell on earth!

    I hater to bother you with the truth but every society that gave open recognition to homosexuality destroyed itself. Does Rome mean anything to you, that once great empire now a laughing stock because homosexuality was treated as normal right to the top? Carry on like you are and you will end up destroying yourself but that won’t worry you as the only time that means anything to you is now as in instant gratification that is why you are besotted with sex. I know for a fact that men who go to clubs, pubs, and baths run for homosexuals go there with one thing in mind and that is to pick someone up for sex. Of course being the truth you will deny it because you suffer from truthphobia.

    WILL – Death camps in Germany, 1939, happened because of people like you.

    Once again, sorry to bother you with the truth but all the history books I have read said it was Hitler who started WW2 and the death camps, not Christians. I guess when you suffer from truthphobia, you can’t stomach reality so you have to provide scapegoats for your unholy religion

    WILL – You see, I have no obsession with religion

    Now I know that you are totally deluded. The common theme in all these forums is the same RELIGION and the best way to attack it with lies and innuendo and when one religious person does something that you don’t like means that every one of them on planet earth does it as well. And you are surprised that we don’t take you seriously when all you can produce are foul mouthed rants that don’t contain a shred of evidence and when I ask for it there is a deathly silence.

    Apart from the fact that you are vigorously pushing the religon of the gaystapo which is everyone has to do what we say and agree with us on everything or we will brand you as homophobic.

  195. Reality Check 8 Jul 2009, 7:49am

    IRIS – And, David Skinner, you actually scare me. Not because of your religious beliefs, but because of your creepy obsession with sex.

    You will be pleased to know that we are not scared by your abnormal obsession with your sexual proclivities despite all the reasons that you use to defend your abnormal desire for it.

    WILL – And how many “traditional families” have fallen apart solely on the basis of the introduction of gay marriage? I’d say none.

    “It should be obvious that when a state gives same-sex couples almost all the benefits and privileges of heterosexual married couples except the word marriage, most people will realise that it is foolish and unethical to not go all the way. Thus what occurred yesterday in Sweden (breakdown in marriage) is not just part of the long-standing assault on the family, but a result of foolish and unnecessary concessions made to homosexual activists over the years.”

    NEVILLE – Always try to remember that David Skinner is mentally ill, and, therefore, it is not possible to credit any of his comments.

    Proof please (not opinion)

    TERRY – And to back up your point William, I am in a relationship with my partner for the last 23 years. I met him when I was 22, and I am as happy today with him today as I was 23 years ago, if not more so.

    You obviously don’t realise that one case would not be accepted as quantifiable research in any discipline.

    CM – The catholic church in Ireland is a travesty against humanity!

    And the gaystapo is a travesty against mankind.

    TERRY – Some habit, given my habit has lasted more than most straight relationships.

    You obviously ignore the obvious research done by homosexuals that shows the average length of two homosexuals in a relationship is up to two years. 80% of all male/female marriages last a lifetime. You are obviously not very good at maths.

    WILL – Its the only reason for religion, and sexual abuse is the ultimate abuse of power. Like you, they are abusive

    As usual you use sweeping generalizations that have no substance in fact and are unprovable. I won’t ask you for evidence because you have none. The fact that there are some who abuse their power would not stand up in court that it is evidence that all are abusing their power.

    If you came out of your ghetto and looked around you will see everyday Christians all over the world giving their time and money to help the less fortunate as this example shows…

    “The faith that 25 years ago enabled a volunteer youth mission to believe it could see an aging ocean liner turned into a hi-tech floating hospital is the catalyst today behind even more remarkable transformations – in the bodies and spirits of the poorest of the world’s poor.

    Specializing in the healing of horrific facial deformities in places where often little or no professional health care exists, Mercy Ships International’s three vessels, staffed by thousands of volunteers, have provided more than 2 million services with a direct impact on 5.5 million people.”

    Are you doing the same or is it a case of all rhetoric. More than likely you will make some rubbishing comment because they are not trumpeting the cause of homosexuality.

    JP – It never occured to me that stupidity was a lifestyle choice.

    It should have JP because you have stupidly chosen to listen to the lies of Satan who has conned you into believing you are born homosexual. The fact that is what you believe shows that you have been conned and you are going to prove it by defending your position.

    IRIS – And can you imagine the headline saying “Churches forced to employ black people?” Oh, my heart weeps for the poor old churches – NOT.

    You are so pathetic Iris. The church dear one is not going to be forced to employ black people because it already does. Some of the strongest churches in the world are full of black people and the majority of them won’t have a bar of homosexuality.

    Sorry to burst your self satisfying and self congratulatory bubble.

    JK – O dear . . . what ever happened to reasoned disccusion?

    You expect that from the gaystapo whose only obsession is what is in between their legs and what they do with it to get their kicks.

  196. Reality Check 9 Jul 2009, 10:00am

    I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn’t, than live my life as if there isn’t, and die to find out there is.

    HC – If we insist that the churches do not interfere with the State, then how can we justify the State’s interference with the Churches? What we CAN do is to withdraw all public funding and tax benefits from those groups who choose to systematically discriminate against LBGTQI people. Attack the bigots where it hurts the most, in the pocketbook.

    Of course, to prevent being discriminatory, we would have to withdraw all public funding from groups who discriminate against Christians wouldn’t we?

    KEITH – Your statements are too sweeping and that is because they are full of heated emotion and lack cold logic.

    Well, well, well. We won’t mention the myriads (that means copious amounts) of sweeping statements that the gaystapo use incessantly which are the product of your heated emotion and lack of cold logic as in one Christian does it so they must all do it as in Fred Phelps who is used as a banner of the homonazi to show that they are pure as the driven snow and Christians are sanctimonious bigots because one of them is. Talk about opening your mouth and putting your foot in it and then shooting yourself in the foot. You do live in a fool’s paradise don’t you? All I need now is some supercilious statement from you to prove every word I have just said.

    WILL – racist piece of filth?
    PROVE IT!!!

    KEITH – Probably so, but not because they are gay; there are gay people doing dreadful things, no doubt; doing dreadful things because they are dreadful people but their sexual preferences/orientation are quite incidental and totally irrelevant.

    Talk about sanctimonious twaddle. The cases I have in my file and which are to be found all over the Web clearly show that the people doing the dreadful things are doing it because they are homos. If they weren’t that would not be doing it. But I guess when truthphobia sets in, everything is distorted and spin becomes the predominant response to cover up the gaystapo’s atrocities.

    CM ….well, I’d rather be a smart faggot than a retarded gimp like you, you distasteful little troll.

    And you wonder why you’re the scum of the earth. I hope one day you become disabled and then you can suffer and die without anyone’s help.

    LINDA – LOL…. classic.

    You wouldn’t be laughing if your were quadriplegic, you heartless homo. No wonder everyone thinks you are ratbags.

    LEE – I was just down my city centre where some extreemist preechers spouted a verbal volley of hate towards gay people in my face

    Evidence please

    LEE – , i find it unfortunate and sometimes quite infurating that these religious nuts are completly incapable of listening to reasoning,

    We are still waiting to hear some. All we hear from you lot are supercilious statements, foul language, abuse and sweeping generalizations. If that is the voice of reason, go take a jump.

    AT – Therefore, gay men are committing a disproportionate share of sexual crimes against children.

    They are. You have said it yourself. To quote “. Although almost all child molesters are male and less than 3% of men are homosexual, about a third of all child sex abuse cases involve men molesting boys.”

    It’s a known fact that straight men rarely molest boys so one third of molestations by 2% of the population means homos are in the forefront of sexually abusing boys.

    William Allen bragged at a homosexual’s conference that he had sex with over 2,000 boys. If that isn’t extreme I don’t know what is. Of course you are going to say that is only one case, but Fred Phelps is only one case but you bring him up daily in your attack on Christians.

     Gays make up a tiny minority of the population. (Anti-gay opponents typically cite a figure somewhere between 1% and 3 %.)

    They are not anti-gay opponents they are people from reputed universities and medical facilities that are looking for the facts. Surveys all over the world come up with the same figure of 1-3%. The figure of 10% that the gaystapo preach is based on Kinsey’s findings. These have been debunked by all reputable research bodies and no longer are quoted except by the gaystapo who don’t want to admit the truth because it will queer their pitch.

  197. Reality Check 10 Jul 2009, 8:21am

    AT- What has your diatribe that tries to prove that homosexual angels that are pedophiles are not got to do with religious organisations being forced to employ people they don’t want?

    AT – Yet anti-gay activists insist on spreading this misinformation.

    Just like the gaystapo who insist that because Fred Phelps hates fags so does every Christian.

    AT – At the same time you cannot let falsehoods stand unchallenged for all to see.

    Unless of course you are a member of the gaystapo, then you can say whatever you want regardless of whether it is the truth or not and we are e3xpected to believe that it is gospel. Like homosexual couples stay together as long as heterosexuals married ones.

    VICTIM – I use to defend the gay community but now I realise it is just a self obsessed,narcissistic and shallow grouping not worthy of tolerance or respect.

    A very insightful and honest statement.

    JP – It is going to be a continuous problem because these ‘crazed fools’ are basically harassing us anonymously,

    Just like the gaystapo do when others do not bow and scrape at the altar of the gaystapo religion which demands that every one is subject to their laws.

    JP – but we all have the kind of respect for free speech that would not put up with censorship unless it could be considered dangerous,

    You really are oblivious to the obvious aren’t you? The only free speech you believe in is your own and anyone who agrees with you. Disagree with you and you raise your hackles and foul and abusive language like religious crack pots – Gaggle of inbred royal parasites. – brain-dead fuckwit – Racist piece of filth? – a sad little intellectual midget you are. – A small minded and silly buffoon – sad bastard and another 40 where they come from. And who considers it dangerous? You!! Don’t make me laugh when we have case after case when the homonazi resort to violence to silence its critics.

    AT – The research is so strong that the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists and the American Psychological Association41 are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.”

    “William Allen proud of his conquests boasted at a conference for homosexuals that he had sex with over 2,000 boys. Fortunately someone listening was not impressed and they reported the fact to the police. He was arrested and charged with pedophilia. Whilst on bail he hanged himself.” Of course, according to your lot he wasn’t a homosexual even though he claimed he was and proud of the fact.

  198. Reality Check 10 Jul 2009, 8:23am

    CRAIG – With a forum you could red flag individuals and stop them from directly posting comments. Those red flagged individuals’ comments would then go through the moderator to check suitability.

    In other words people that tell the truths that you don’t want to hear.

  199. Reality Check 11 Jul 2009, 8:46am

    AT – So, is repeatedly lying acceptable free speech in that context (especially the common tactic of losing an argument on one thread, and repeating it on another)? I don’t think so.

    As most of what the gaystapo write is lies, you obviously believe that lying is acceptable free speech

    CM – Victim, who gives a f*ck about you and your mentally retarded racist views.

    Now that is what I call an intelligent well thought out statement.

    CM – You degenerate f*ckwit, you’re no loss to the gay scene, so run along retard, someone has a white paper to write on you.

    If that is how you treat one of your own, I am not surprised that you are so aggressive and intolerant to those who don’t agree with you.

    RT – The irony of your post is lost on you, no doubt.

    The irony of most of your posts are definitely lost on you

    WIL – How “intellectual” of you to be using the word faggot.

    And how intellectual of the gaystapo to use terms like these
    1. ignoramuses like you.
    2. figment of your crazed mind?
    3. You are nothing but a degenerate with a learning disorder.
    4. deranged Fundamentalist Christian
    5. bigoted bitch.
    6. screaming religious nutters
    7. poor deluded religious bigots

    AT – Considering how easy it is to incite hatred against gay people –

    And considering how you love to incite hatred and violence against those who disagree with you.

    AT – That, by the way, is totally against the views of every psychiatric and medical association.

    Your truthphobia is showing. I would like evidence of EVERY association in the world believe this.

    AT – Of course, you have posted lies on this thread about gays being paedos,

    “William Allen proud of his conquests boasted at a conference for homosexuals that he had sex with over 2,000 boys. Fortunately someone listening was not impressed and they reported the fact to the police. He was arrested and charged with pedophilia. Whilst on bail he hanged himself.”

    What don’t you understand about sex with 2,000 boys?

    AT – Gay men did not rape boys.

    And who is living in la la land?

    AT – American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists and the American Psychological Association41 are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.”

    Of course there isn’t when you live most of your life looking the other way and live in denial.

    LINDA – Victim, wow. You are the angriest perso0n this site has seen in a while.

    You obviously ignore the ranting and raving of the gaystapo.

    TONY – “considering what outrages committed by gay men against children in church care” What??? You think gay men did this? How bloody offensive, and wrong.

    Your truthphobia is showing Tony. Please provide me with evidence that it was not homosexual priests? Of course you can’t can you?

  200. Reality Check 12 Jul 2009, 7:24am

    AT – So, what evidence do you have that gay people are more likely to be bigoted than straight people?

    I spent six years at uni. The most bigoted group there was the gaystapo. They made the campus their own personal jungle, abusing anyone who dared say something that they did not agree with. You don’t need surveys as it is obvious that the homonazi believes that their demands take precedent over everyone else’s. Read the papers. Read the internet. You could find at least 500 cases where the homonazi attacked someone who dared to stand against the homonazis belligerence and vulgarity.

    WILL – I’m also interested as to why you think gay people are paedophiles.

    “William Allen proud of his conquests boasted at a conference for homosexuals that he had sex with over 2,000 boys. Fortunately someone listening was not impressed and they reported the fact to the police. He was arrested and charged with pedophilia. Whilst on bail he hanged himself.”

    TONY – If you DON’T have any proof, as Will said, the logical conclusion is that your are nothing but a “bigoted racist piece of filth”.

    And you Tony, must be an insecure anger filled and rejected piece of humanity if that is the best you can do.

    KEITH – You continue..”I have been offered surgery which though will supposedly destroy my homosexual orientation which I dont really want to happen.” Nothing known to man will do that; you are what you are;

    “A former homosexual activist and a leader in that movement has announced he has left that lifestyle, and is crediting Jesus with his transformation.

    For years, Michael Glatze was a prominent spokesman in the homosexual rights movement. In fact, at age 22, he became editor of Young Gay America magazine. He also has received a number of awards, including the “National Role Model Award” from the Equality Forum, an organization that promotes “gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender civil rights.”

    But in an article published today by WorldNetDaily, Glatze says he began to question his purpose and role in life two years ago — and that led him to God’s truth about homosexuality, sin, and forgiveness. “Now I know that homosexuality is lust and pornography wrapped into one,” he writes. “I’ll never let anybody try to convince me otherwise, no matter how slick their tongues or how sad their story. I have seen it. I know the truth.”

    This would suggest that you are not a man Keith because this is known to man.

    AT – Gay men did not rape boys.

    “William Allen proud of his conquests boasted at a conference for homosexuals that he had sex with over 2,000 boys. Fortunately someone listening was not impressed and they reported the fact to the police. He was arrested and charged with pedophilia. Whilst on bail he hanged himself.”

    What don’t you understand about 2,000 boys AT ?

  201. Reality Check 13 Jul 2009, 5:09am

    WILL – And the record goes on and on….. same old tired message. Over. And Over. And Over.

    A bit like that other tired old record. Your homophobic.Your homophobic.Your homophobic over and over and over and over. Yawn.

    WILL – I love that I’m better than you.

    Pride goes before a fall.

    WILL – you must be the biggest arsehole who walked the planet.

    Isn’t that what homos crave for?

    AT – Look, if anyone comes on here and makes the same dumb, unproven claims, please cut and paste previous challenges that have still to be answered.

    Your truthphobia is showing Tony. Please provide me with evidence that it was not homosexual priests? Of course you can’t can you?

    What don’t you understand about sex with 2,000 boys?

    Your truthphobia is showing. I would like evidence of EVERY association in the world believe this.

    LEE – Evidence please

    WILL – PROVE IT!!!

    NEVILLE – Proof please

    I am still waiting for answers to these questions. Seems that your detractors have to answer for their claims but you don’t.

    AT – are on record saying that there is no relationship between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.”

    William Allen proud of his conquests boasted at a conference for homosexuals that he had sex with over 2,000 boys. Fortunately someone listening was not impressed and they reported the fact to the police. He was arrested and charged with pedophilia. Whilst on bail he hanged himself.

    LEE – You have no proof in saying that these pedophiles where gaypeople

    Can you prove that they weren’t bearing in mind a survey stated that 46% of priests are homosexuals. I find it rather ridiculous that anyone would claim homosexuals were not involved at all. A classic case of truth phobia to play down that a lot of homosexuals like boys. If that were not the case, why is there an organisation in the USA devoted to promoting men having sex with under age boys?

    JP – Finally, I am a big fan of the Kinsey Report,

    That doesn’t take much to work out as it says what you want to hear. The fact that it has been debunked by almost all reputable organisations doesn’t enter your tiny little deluded mind

    WILL – wonder what the 75% failure rate of marriage is caused by?

    Lies, damn lies, and statistics. And where did you get this figure from? Proof please. Evidence please. Facts and figures please none of which you will be able to provide. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

    WILL – He’s ex-gay.

    Rather than give your supercilious and childish opinion, can we have some proof please?

    WILL – So please stop quoting pseueo science like you know what you’re talking about.

    Why? You do it all the time.

    MAJELLA – Are we going to bring down the world with loving stable relationships?

    What loving stable relationships. Those where sex on the side is a weekly event?

  202. Reality Check 14 Jul 2009, 3:51am

    ALEX 171 – Having read thru all the posts (excellent words – Will; Adrian T; Jean-Paul to name just a few)

    I am beginning to wonder if Will, Adrian T and Jean Paul are all the same person?

    AT 172 – True; if the evidence is strong enough, and someone comes along with a better theory, all well and good. There is no such thing as ‘absolute truth’ in Science.

    Too right you are. That is why some evolutionists say the earth is 20 million years old, some 80 million, some 200 million, and some 800 million. Talk about confused.

    AT 172 – Ethics and medicine have gone hand in hand since the time of Hippocrates, 4th century BC. Medics swear by the Hippocratic Oath,

    Which world do you live in. Obviously not on planet earth where millions of babies are deliberately destroyed every year. Never do harm to anyone!!!! You have got to be joking!!!!

    AT 172 – Talking about NARTH – this is also very poor science. On close analysis of the results, very few people actually succeed in changing.

    First, giving up homosexuality is not a science, it is to do with the psychological and emotional make up of the person as the root is rejection. Where is your evidence that very few succeed in becoming what they were created to be? None at all if the truth were known, but unfortunately truthphobia won’t let you admit to the fact.

    At 172 – Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. I want to hear some rock solid evidence here, on the scale of the Fossil Record.

    And when are the gaystapo going to provide the evidence for about 20 claims you have made with no evidence which I am still waiting for? If you want fossil record evidence, that is passé. It has been shown to be a hoax, which evolutionists are very good at i.e. Piltdown man!!!!

    AT 175 – Poeple who keep posting lies, after having them debunked, or refuse to provide evidence to back up their claims, should be made unwelcome, plain and simple.

    Then we had better get rid of you with all your unsubstantiated generalizations, an inability to prove evidence for anything you have said when asked, and using so called evidence based on one incident or person as though that was valid for quantifiable research.

    JK 176 – I would like to know when the next NARTH conference is planned so that we can try and stop it from taking place.

    But I have been told that homos are not aggressive and believe in freedom of speech!!!! Your comment proves four things. One that you are liars. Two that you are so insecure. Three you only believe in freedom of speech if the person agrees with you. Four you don’t believe that homos can’t stop being homos, as if you did, you wouldn’t need to attack those who disagree with you, especially as they are a complete failure in your eyes. Talk about stupid!!!

    LEE 177 – People have put a lot of thought in how they structure their arguments and time into backing them ub with reliable facts and sources.

    If that is the case why am I still waiting for the evidence for about 20 claims that have not been proved?

    LEE177 – helps thoes people realise the lies that the church and its propeganda machine spew.

    And what are the lies their propaganda machine spew. Can you tell me one? No, because you suffer from truthphobia, like everyone else.

    WILL 180 – It is we who are winning. Gay marriage, gay rights, religious adoption institutions made give up their centuries old bigotry.

    What you might call a hollow victory as history clearly shows that societies that pander to the homonazi end up destroying themselves. In other words, you are giving yourself permission to kill yourselves. So shortsighted and unintelligent.

    PM 181 – Do, David…. Do tell. You support slavery?

    You obviously do as you are all slaves to Satan’s deception that God loves your homosexuality and that it is no barrier to entry into eternal life. That’s what truthphobia does to you.

    WILL 180 – You’re ex-gay, that much is obvious.

    Evidence please. Of course you can’t prove that. It is just one of your throwaway lines to make you feel good and superior. Rather stupid in fact because you fight tooth and nail to stop people believing that you can be an ex homo. Shot yourself in the foot there.

    PM 181 – The following passages form the good book support this slavery notion, and I am excited about it:-

    They only show that you have no idea what you are talking about. No self respecting theologian reads one verse or two and says “There you are, point proven.” Until you have studied the whole of scripture you have no authority to give any advice on what it says. In your indecent haste to attack the church you spend all your time verse-mining to prove your tiresome claims that no one listens to because we know that you haven’t a clue what your talking about. Doing this might make you happy, but we just sit here and give a big sigh and say “when are they going to stop acting so childishly and grow up”. I am beginning to wonder if the homonazi invented fairy stories.

  203. Reality Check 15 Jul 2009, 3:03am

    ROBERT 184 – Excuse me but when did christian cultists get to describe our lives as lifestyles, as if it were a choice, in other words becoming “ex-gay” that has other implications.

    Describing your lives as “lifestyles” dear Robert was invented by the gaystapo to avoid the truth of what you do to satisfy your sexual preferences. We have always called it sin. You can’t have it both ways. It is one or the other.

    ROBERT 184 – I can from a family of three siblings, I was the middle one, my two brothers as far as I know are straight which proves that sexual orientation is not a choice, its who we are, the way we are born.

    Two things Robert. One example does not make a body of evidence. Your situation does not prove that homosexuality is not a choice. You would need at least 1,000 examples for any proof of any kind. The fact that there are thousands of ex-homosexuals proves that homosexuality is a choice.

    ROBERT 184 – I don’t recall ever reading that Jesus Christ excluded or judged anyone or tell them they were less worthy than the next man or woman because of who they are.

    That is because you don’ read the whole bible, just those bits that suit your interpretation of the bible. Please read the following passages. You will find that your claim is entirely wrong. Matthew 3:7; 5:20; 12:34; 16:6,11,12: 23:33; 23:13,14,15,23,25,27; Luke 3:7; John 2:15.

    CM185 – Robert, David doesn’t deal in facts. Just mindless statements that he was programmed to regurgitate.

    Which of course is true of the gaystapo. I have visited many sites that promote homosexuality and the same old tired rhetoric and stories appear on all of them as in Fred Phelps and Hitler.

    KEITH 186 – I really would like someone to explain …

    It’s very simple Keith as you well know. It is a person who was homosexual in orientation and no longer is.

    CM 187 – Ex-gay is someone that, for what reason, to “choose” to no longer be gay, by attending “courses”. These “courses” are usually run by religious institutions, and is essentially a form of brain washing.

    Wrong again as this article shows.
    “The American Psychological Association’s prestigious journal Professional Psychology: Research and Practice has just published a comprehensive research paper on sexual-orientation change. Clients have the right to pursue change, the author says, because “sexual orientation, once thought to be an unchanging trait, is actually quite flexible for some people.”

    An article by Dr. Warren Throckmorton, “Initial Empirical and Clinical Findings Concerning the Change Process for Ex-Gays,” has been published in the June 2002 issue of the American Psychological Association’s publication Professional Psychology: Research and Practice.

    “I’m pleased that this research summary will reach an audience of psychologists and mental health professionals that may not be aware of ex-gay issues,” says Throckmorton, the director of college counseling at Grove City College.

    “My literature review contradicts the policies of major mental health organizations because it suggests that sexual orientation, once thought to be an unchanging sexual trait, is actually quite flexible for many people, changing as a result of therapy for some, ministry for others and spontaneously for still others.”

    CM 187 – Some famous cases show that ex-gays have always go back to same sex relations, as the brainwashing wears off. It usually leads to depression, suicide and other very harmful philological damage.

    Can we have some evidence for this statement please? I doubt if you have any but I thought I would ask as you constantly accuse others of not producing evidence.

    WILL 190 – Ciaran is quite right, the ex-gay “movement” is utter nonsense.

    Can I have some evidence for this statement or is just another one of your throwaway lines to make you feel superior?

    The ex-gay movement is damaging and petty, and only interested in their selfish motivations.

    I guess it is not far behind the gaystapo, whose motto is “me, myself and I.”

    and all because he takes a few literal lines (selectively, I might add) from an archaic book, rather than open his eyes. Sad really.

    We must have learnt that specialty from the homonazi who make verse-mining to prove their slant on things and which proves nothing except their total lack of understanding of the teachings of the Bible an art form.

  204. FaggotHunter 26 Sep 2012, 3:33pm

    The sooner they make it legal to hunt faggots the better. Shooting faggots would be much more enjoyable than hunting foxes or rabbits. Watching faggots die a slow painful death from AIDS is a good start, it would be much more fun watching their poofter brains explode when hit with a 44 slug.

  205. Genuine churches and Christians would employ non-sexually active homosexuals.

    They could not and would not, employ openly active homosexuals as it is against their religion.

    As has happened throughout history, they would die at the stake rather than deny Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

    This call for “equality” and “rights” will deny many others of their rights.
    Any “Christian” or “church” who does not hold this view denies the Lord Jesus and has compromised with the world.

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