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Adoption agency labelled ‘Nazis’ after calling gay adoption critics ‘retarded homophobes’

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  1. It may indeed be the case that the language used was unnecessary, but we should still be in a time when everyone can recognise that it is actually true and that it should be held as true without it having to be said.

    Perhaps they could have similarly strongly-worded sentiments, but pussy-footing around the issue and not clearly condemning opposing attitudes would give them too much credit. If organisations such as BAAF aren’t prepared to make such statements, it makes it look as though there is a reasonable debate to be had; that the religious side may have a point and that it’s a controversial issue. We all know that that’s bullshit. There is only one right answer to the rights of LGBT people to adopt, and people blinded by the cherry-picked morality of religion need to be dragged into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if necessary.

  2. Simon Murphy 14 May 2009, 10:57am

    Julian Brazier of the Tories said the following:

    ” “I must say I am very sad that they should use this language about people who have an honest disagreement with them.” ”

    I’d just like to point out to Mr Brazier that opponents of gay adoption do NOT have an honest disagreement over the issue. Their disagreement stems from hatred of gay people. Hatred is not an honest disagreement.

  3. Sister Mary Clarence 14 May 2009, 11:08am

    I have no problem with the use of the work ‘homophobe’ but labelling people who disagree with gay adoption was ‘retarded’ is no more acceptable that calling them ‘spastics’, ‘cripples’ or any other slang/derogatory term for a disablity.

  4. The use of the word retarded was unfortunate because of the associations with disability. Homophobes do have a sort of retardation in their emotional development and in their educational development, but there are probably better ways of expressing this.

  5. Ian Laughlin 14 May 2009, 11:14am

    The BAAF may have made an error in using the word ‘retarded’ inaccurately, but it is true that opponents of gay equality have problems in functionality. No apologies should be made for pointing this basic fact out. http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Homophobia.

    Disabled people or people with learning difficulties are of course, not “retarded” in the way meant by the BAAF document. Given that disabled people also face discrimination in parenting in this society, there is scope for LGBT groups to work alongside disability campaigns to end the domination of the field by the “normals”.

  6. I agree that we should not worry about homophobes. However, I think it was incredibly stupid of them to use the word “retarded”. I have a relative with Down’s Syndrome and it frankly sickens me that the word “retarded” has entered popular cultire language, just as it annoys me greatly to hear the word “gay” being used to mean rubbish.

  7. Brian Burton 14 May 2009, 11:18am

    Why can’t people just keep their lips buttoned and get on with the job?

  8. Check out the vitriol in the comments section following an article about this in the Daily Mail today. Scary. And many have gay friends. Apparantly.

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1181380/Slurred-adoption-Nazis-Critics-gay-parenting-branded-retarded-homophobes.html

  9. Calling people retards is no more acceptable than standard homophobic comments, and I trust our community will voice its disgust at the intolerance and vileness uttered by those professing to be defending us. With friends like that, who needs enemies??!!

  10. Mihangel apYrs 14 May 2009, 1:27pm

    using the “retarded” word was nasty, though I know what they meant. The Daily HAte using the “Nazi” word obviously ISN’T nasty. Afterall the Nazi philosophy ws only one of the most evil created by 20C men (who should have known better). However, since it was the “Hate Mail”, with their history of cosying up to fascists, maybe they meant it playfully

  11. Rachel Titley 14 May 2009, 2:25pm

    To retard: To hold back
    Disassosciate it from its connotations and use the word in its purest sense and it is the most accurate word to use in the circumstances. Linguistics is a wonderful hobby

  12. Thanks, Ivan. I ‘green arrowed’ some of the sensible comments, but was horrified at the idiocy and hatred of some of the comments on the Daily Mail. See, this is why Ross shouldn’t make a joke about gay people – huge numbers of the British public simply won’t get it. It’ll just feed their prejudice and ignorance.

  13. Opposition to gay adoption does not always equate to a hatred of gay people.

  14. Ian Laughlin 14 May 2009, 3:37pm

    We all know that the Mail is bitterly ironic in labelling gay people, travellers, Europeans and just about everyone as “Nazis” (in truth, it was the Daily Mail alone in the British media that support Adolf Hitler right up to the eve of the Second World War and opposed granting asylum to Jews fleeing the Third Reich).

    If I may recommend a couple of blogs that every day monitor the Daily Mail’s activities: http://www.angrymob.uponnothing.co.uk/
    http://www.mailwatch.co.uk/
    These sites also monitor the mind-set of Daily Mail readers and find it, by and large, endlessly angry but never at power structures, always at people further down the social scale.

    I always cover over the Daily Mail with a copy of another paper at my newsagents. Their readers then usually get confused, turn on the shop-keeper and claim the Somali punk-rocker atheists have nicked it (or something). Perhaps if Mail readers can get angry enough they’ll all just explode. But in the meantime, take low level action against that paper wherever possible.

  15. So…where’s this ‘tolerance’ I keep hearing about? Or is that only for gays?

  16. Pumpkin Pie 14 May 2009, 4:53pm

    I read this article at my local newsagent this morning. In their “We Say” column on p14, they gave a specious little argument about how “studies” have shown that children brought up by same-sex couples do less well than children brought up by mixed-sex or even single-parent families. Being somebody who’s actually read studies on this sort of thing, I was wondering where the hell they found any that came to that sort of conclusion. My gut instinct was that they were just using junk science studies, then it hit me what they’d probably done – the VAST majority of mixed-sex couples and single parents are bringing up their own children, whereas the VAST majority of same-sex couples are bringing up children who have been through the care system. Not that the Daily Heil cares for accuracy, of course.

    Thanks for the link, Ivan. I have a morbid sense of humour, so reading through the moronic ramblings of the dregs of humanity will bring me much entertainment. I especially love all the crap about “social experimentation”. You know, ‘cos gay parents haven’t already been around for decades now. And the whole “can’t reproduce, can’t be a parent” angle is always hilarious. I mean, it doesn’t even make any sort of logical sense. I’ve studied logical fallacies, but I’m struggling to put a name to one this totally blatant. How do you even argue against that? It makes no sense.

    Ah, and I nearly forgot one thing. Love the way the Heil places the blame for anti-gay bullying on same-sex parents and not on the parents who encourage it. And then there’s “Christians are tired of being marginalised”. Translation: “Waaah! Nobody’s doing what we tell them to do! How dare those fags trample on our rights by living their lives as they see fit while doing no harm to anybody! Boo-hoo!”

    PS: I also feel very strongly about the denigration those with learning difficulties, or indeed any class of people. Just because I’m standing up for gay adoption doesn’t mean I approve of the wording used in this pamphlet, nor that I kick puppies, Daily Heil!

    PPS: Simon Murphy, my sentiments exactly. You saved me from having to type any more. “Honest”, indeed. Ha!

  17. It’s unfortunate that this issue has become so polarized that public discussion seems to have become reduced to just a lot of mud-slinging and hackneyed phrases. All sense that there are real human beings & real children with real feelings is lost.

    Not everyone who opposes gay adoption IS a homophobe. Some are bigots, some are well-meaning people who haven’t (yet) encountered evidence that might encourage them to ‘think outside the box’. It’s pretty unproductive to alienate them by labelling them ‘retarded homophobes’! I can’t understand how such stupidity got into print, frankly.

    I’m certainly not opposed to same-sex parenting – if I was a kid & had to choose between the likes of Sandi Toksvig or Victoria Gillick for a mum, it’d be a no-brainer for me!

    I wish that more people (of any orientation) would reflect more carefully ontheir suitablity as parents. There are too many kids already who are treated as ‘accidents’ or ‘accessories’. Unpleasant, I know, but true.

  18. Too much ad-hom and not enough substance in this mud-slinging. If you’re going to make a point, it’s probably beter made without derogatory terms for mental illness or recourse to Godwin’s law at the drop of a hat.
    If you find yourself in a discussion like that, the best policy is to count slowly backwards from 10, take a deep breath and then stick to the impirical facts.

  19. I don’t see the problem at all actually. Maybe I am missing something?

    Retardation – is a deceleration of process (in this case the process of social education about homophobia) – it is a perfectly correct phrase.

    Yes – of course, it is unfortunate and perhaps unwise – since the phrase is ambiguous, but are we saying the GCSE physics should not be able to teach about retardation anymore since it might offend??

    At the same time calling someone a retard to inferiorise them in a way which smacks of an old phrase coined to reference ‘sub-intelligence’ is a specific use of the word and therefore takes on an offensive meaning. But is the comment offensive if the reader is offended. Perhaps the socially unprogressive reader is offended as a defence reaction to the threat of anti-homophobia??? The truth hurts when you are in denial….

    Therefore I would suggest that those offended by it have assumed a ‘hidden meaning’ that suggests a sort of backwardness in an individual based only on their intelligence…….and actually elements of this may be true since there are peer-reviewed studies that show that homophobia associates inversely with educational achievement (amongst other factors)…..

  20. oh sure. we gay people have had to put up with being called EVERY name in the book our entire lives, have had to put up with physical abuse our entire lives, have had to put up with governmental interference and limited human rights for our entire lives, and now some straight person has a problem with THIS? they can all rot in Hell as far as i’m concerned. personally, i don’t want children, but a loving gay couple that DOES want children, should be able to adopt them and NOT put up with homophobic assholes.

  21. david skinner 14 May 2009, 10:53pm

    Homosexuality is the Trojan horse for evolutionary humanism of which Nazism was a supreme example. Indeed the Nazi party was riddled with homosexuals, starting with Ernst Roehm. They also had an evolutionary ladder of rights to protection with themselves, the master race, at the top and Jews and blacks at the bottom.
    How soon will it be before we have an evolutionary ladder of rights to protection, with homosexuals and Muslims at the top and maybe foxes, giant pandas and whales above the old, infirm, insane and with Christians at the bottom? One can only assume that violence may be legitimately visited on those, whose human rights card has expired? Sadly for seven million British citizens who have never had any human rights, the best start in life is to have been aborted, like the 200,000 babies last year, under the government’s SureStart Programme.

    The question is which will gain dominance in Britain – Fatalism and the dhimmitude of fascist Islam or evolutionary chance and the sodhimmitude of fascist homosexuality? I put my money on Islam.

  22. Pumpkin Pie 14 May 2009, 11:09pm

    casey, the problem is not that this pamphlet insulted straight people, but that it insulted those with learning disabilities. That’s no justification for the sort of bile that the Daily Heil is spewing, but it’s still not right.

    david skinnydip, all that needs to be said about your hilarious ramblings is that homosexuals were right at the bottom of the Nazi ladder along with Jews and black people.

  23. James - Birmingham 14 May 2009, 11:31pm

    Oh dear David, have you stopped taking your medication? Or are your lunatic ramblings merely the product of blind ignorance, bigotry and prejudice? David Icke is more in touch with reality than you. You’re pathetic bleating about Christians somehow being persecuted and minorities (who you so obviously despise) being prioritised is ludicrous and paranoid. Your allegations about SureStart are totally delusional. As for your nonsense about gays and Nazis it doesn’t even dignify a response. Its no wonder that so many rational people are beginning to question the ‘authority’ of Christian institutions and perspectives. You’re a pitiful advert for Christianity. If you had any real notion of compassion, humility or any so-called ‘Christian values’ you wouldn’t sully this forum with your hate fuelled diatribe. If this is how Christians build bridges, advocate faith based values or evangelise then its no wonder your days are numbered. You are ridiculous and irrelevant.

  24. david skinner 15 May 2009, 12:52am

    Judith Reisman has written,

    ‘Some historians have noted a disturbing undercurrent in SS special forces “training” — especially reports that the recruits were required to soap each other’s bodies during showers, ostensibly to establish mutual dependency. On this note, Shirer wrote that “[p]imps, murderers, homosexuals… [men of] unnatural sexual inclinations” flocked to Hitler. Homosexuals ran the Infantry School and the Storm Troopers. The latter became such a powerful force in the Nazi movement that Hitler’s closest advisors began to argue that Roehm and his homosexual cadre would prove a formidable counterforce.

    `Thus, in June of 1934, Hitler reluctantly dispatched a crew to arrest Roehm and his closest conspirators in their lavish quarters — where they also found a bounty of homosexual paraphernalia and “two naked boys.”

    `Kaximierz Moczarski, a Polish resistance fighter, confirmed that after the purge and Roehm’s execution (delayed because of Hitler’s affection for him), homosexuals “remained party members… got promotions… were protected by the top [Nazi] brass” and served on the battlefield and in prisons. Evidence exists that some male concentration camp inmates were forced to “entertain their guards with humiliating acts” while survivors like Elie Wiesel testified in Night, “The officer[s] took an interest in… [boys] ten and twelve years old… there was considerable traffic in children among homosexuals here.”

    `The historical data do not sustain claims of homosexual martyrdom. On the contrary, in June 1935, two years after Hitler’s victory, “Unnatural” was purged from the German Criminal Code description of homosexuality. Katz reports that without Himmler’s express permission — even if repeatedly apprehended having sex — homosexual actors and artists were not to be incarcerated.’

    `Again, in 1940, Himmler reiterated that only homosexual “multiple offenders” could be jailed, while a pledge of abstinence could result in their freedom. In light of such evidence, questions abound. No Nazi laws penalized non-practicing homosexuals. No “gay ghettos” were plundered and wiped from the face of the earth, their populations hauled off to be gassed — while 6 million Jews lost their “civil rights,” jobs, educations and lives.

    `In fact, Weimar’s “Cabaret” Germany was a refuge for every kind of decadence. Drugs, gay “bath houses” and homosexual and “straight” pornography desensitized jaded Berliners, while homosexual, bisexual and transvestite nightclubs regularly presented naked sex acts, featuring sadism… and a whole panorama of debauched entertainments’

    `Magnus Hirschfeld, the exiled homosexual sex “expert” cited Himmler saying that 20,000 boy prostitutes serviced 2 million members of homosexual organizations in 1933. Of 2 million homosexuals, some 6,000 were killed in concentration camps. The record shows these dead were largely political enemies — homosexual Marxists, Roehmists, and the like.

    `If only 6,000 homosexuals were killed by Hitler, millions of their comrades served him. Hitler’s true, primary victims? Eighty-five percent of European Jewry, 23.5% of Gypsies, 10% of the Poles, 12% of the Ukrainians, 13% of the Belorussians and tens of thousands of “Righteous Gentiles” and their families were tortured and gassed. It is unconscionable for radical homosexuals to wrest “Nazi victim status” from the bones of millions of exterminated Jewish men, women and children. History — a true guide to the future — ought not to be fictionalized to suit the interests of a modern “gay militant” class…’

    And so and so on. You all need to read it.

  25. Four words are on my vocabulary to describe people who do not want to accept gay equality: Heterosexist, Sexist, Homophobe and Anti-Gay.

  26. david skinner, most of us know about the smearing tactics of the oposition. As their arguments dwindle, they’ve been coming to this website trying to brainwash people into their nazi cocooland.

  27. Re: Judith Reisman

    I just couldn’t resist poting this short article by Mark Pilkington at the Guardian. Note particularly the last paragraph!:

    It is all around us, seeping into our brains, via magazines, newspapers and television. Once there, it gets to work, “reflexively and mechanically restructuring the brain “; terrifyingly, “involuntary cellular change takes place even during sleep, resisting informed consent “.

    According to Dr Judith Reisman, pornography affects the physical structure of your brain turning you into a porno-zombie. Porn, she says, is an “erototoxin “, producing an addictive “drug cocktail ” of testosterone, oxytocin, dopamine and serotonin with a measurable organic effect on the brain.

    Some of us might consider this a good thing. Not Reisman: erototoxins aren’t about pleasure, they’re a “fear-sex-shame-and-anger stimulant”. Reisman’s paper on the subject The Psychopharmacology of Pictorial Pornography Restructuring Brain, Mind & Memory & Subverting Freedom of Speech has helped make her the darling of the anti-pornography crusade, and in November last year she presented her erototoxin theory to the US senate.

    Under the auspices of Utah’s Lighted Candle Society (LCS), Reisman and Victor Cline, a clinical psychologist at the University of Utah, began raising money from American conservative and religious organisations. They hope to raise at least $3m to conduct MRI scans on victims under the influence of porn and so prove their theories correct. They foresee two possible outcomes: if they can demonstrate that porn physically “damages ” the brain, that might open the floodgates for “big tobacco”-style lawsuits against porn publishers and distributors; second, and more insidiously, if porn can be shown to “subvert cognition ” and affect the parts of the brain involved in reasoning and speech, then “these toxic media should be legally outlawed, as is all other toxic waste, and eliminated from our societal structure “.

    What’s more, people whose brains have been rotted by pornography are no longer expressing “free speech ” and, for their own good, shouldn’t be protected under the First Amendment.

    But there’s a catch. Much of Reisman’s research in developing her theory has necessitated examining hundreds, perhaps thousands, of pornographic magazines and films. By her own reasoning her brain ought, by now, to be a seething mass of toxic smutmulch …

  28. Pumpkin Pie 15 May 2009, 2:50am

    Judith A. Reisman:-
    Ph.D. 1980 in Communications, Case Western Reserve University
    M.A. 1976 in Communications, Case Western Reserve University

    Ahahaha! Oho! Oho, oh my… Aha! Hah…

    I actually cried a little laughing there. This “expert” doesn’t even have a psychology degree! Seriously! My goodness, by virtue of having studied psychology as my minor, I’M more of an expert on the human mind than this Reisman twit!

    I hope you all understand how truly hilarious it is for someone to preach about the human brain without even having the requisite training to understand what you’re talking about – because it really is funny stuff.

  29. david skinner 15 May 2009, 8:04am

    Rob Fox, thank you very much for drawing my attention to this work of Judith Reisman. Absolutely fascinating. I must write to her and suggest that pornography is not the only stimulant liable to change the functioning of the brain. The brains of gays also, when in the presence of the true Truth, Jesus Christ, become decidedly less rainbow -coloured and more pink. This leads to an intoxication of hatred and fury that results incoherence, Ben Bradshaw, Alan Duncan, Boy George and worst of all bad spelling and grammar.

  30. Karl Rosenqvist 15 May 2009, 8:38am

    Well .. it is a slander on the part of the mentally challenged. Perhaps a more fitting description of such bigot, disrespectful, insane, realityrejecting, s**t for brains, dumbf**ks could be found. I recently used the word “idiot” for an imbecile such as described so that’s my suggestion. Also Shakespeare has made some contributions in this field.

  31. David Skinner – Don’t forget to mention how our black hearts don’t pump blood but a viscous tar-like substance! I’m completely entralled by your erm… ‘scientific’ analysis of how our brains work and how we started the 3rd reich. If that’s not Godwin’s law, I don’t know what is.
    Got to go, apparently I’ve got some goose-stepping to do.

  32. Opposing Gay adoption does not make one a homophobe. Andrew Piierce wrote in the Telegraoh as a Gay man, who knows Gay copules both for and against. He even said he was grateful that his adoption was handled by a Catholic Agency! Now, who would have thought? Name calling just displays childishness and weakens the argument.

  33. David Skinner is a sad lonely f—-r who thinks he’s straight but has absolutely no one to spend his time with except by coming unwanted and unwelcome to the gays at this website. You’ld think with nowhere else to go he would at least try to make friends. Man, must he be sick.

  34. david skinner 15 May 2009, 11:11am

    Flapjack, thank you for this introduction to Godwin, because it reminds me that the source of 21st century homosexual philosophy is Darwin and evolutionism- which in turn produced Nazism and scientism.

    Having said that, Islam, although ostensibly eschewing homosexuality in this life seems to suggest that paradise will be altogether different; the Qu’ran talks about it being a place where men are serviced by young boys:

    “Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.” :( Koran 52:24)

    “Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness. “ (Koran 56:17)

    “And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.” (Koran 76:19)

    One of the greatest poets in Arabic language Abu Nuwas writes in the Perfumed Garden:

    O the joy of sodomy! So now be sodomites, you Arabs.
    Turn not away from it–therein is wondrous pleasure.
    Take some coy lad with kiss-curls twisting on his temple and ride as he stands like some gazelle standing to her mate.

    -A lad whom all can see girt with sword and belt not like your whore who has to go veiled.

    Make for smooth-faced boys and do your very best to mount them, for women are the mounts of the devils.

    When Mehmed conquered Constantinople in 1453, the Muslim general demanded the 14-year-old son of one of the city’s Christian leaders as his sexual concubine (the father and son chose death instead). Subsequent Ottoman administrators also engaged in homosexuality, often with the boys of conquered populations who could not afford to satisfy the jizya (poll tax on non-Muslims) in any other way than to relinquish their own children to the Religion of Peace.

    Winston Churchill wrote in 1899

    “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
    Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

    The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as
    his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must
    delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased
    to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

    Both Islam and Evolutionary humanism have this in common; they are both religions of fatalism and chance that produce paralysis in intellectual and spiritual development, put succinctly by Popeye the Sailor Man when he said:” I yam what yam.” (And therefore can never change).

  35. Edward in Los Angeles 15 May 2009, 11:17am

    I totally agree with Simon Murphy’s comment: opponents of gay adoption don’t have a misunderstanding…they hate the idea of gays being able to adopt. They are bigots. Gay press and gay advertising has got to begin tackling – and overcoming – this habit of bigots trying to portray themselves as victims. It’s going to take some time, but we have to address this ridiculous stand of certain Christians. “Christians are tired of being marginalised”, was one of the quotes in the article. Then stop dealing in bigotry. Now, these are the words that alot of us think, but it’s time to start voicing that in the news and advertising. The bible and Christianity has been rewritten before, and with regards to gay rights, it is time for the bible and Christianity to be revised again. This is a CIVIL RIGHTS issue, and like the great screenwriter Paddy Chayefsky wrote in his movie “Network”: We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore–

  36. David skinner – I’m not even going to bother arguing with that one, just go back and read what you wrote. Some things don’t need to be mocked… merely repeated.

  37. Edward in Los Angeles 15 May 2009, 11:20am

    By the way, I forgot to add that the post by David Skinner was mind-opening.

  38. A great quote I spotted today:

    “Don’t you just love the way liberals can get away with calling anyone they disagree with any name in the book, but if you do it its considered hate speech.”

    How true, and they are using gays as their pawns to advance their nasty, sinister Stasi (I’ll refrain from using the word “Nazi” although that is not far off the truth) agenda.

  39. Codex- yes, damn that Adlof Hitler and his liberal policies.

  40. Pumpkin Pie 15 May 2009, 12:25pm

    “Boys of perpetual freshness”

    Haha! I’ve got to remember to use that one! Nice. :D

  41. But, they are retarded homophobes.

  42. ‘Boys of perpetual freshness’ I have saved the quotes…

  43. Pumpkin pie – We should shorten that to BOPF for personal ads… I think it could catch on!

  44. I see that the seriously mentally ill David Skinner is at it again. When,oh when, is he going to be incarcerated in a lunatic asylum!

  45. david skinner 16 May 2009, 7:46am

    James from Birmingham , thanks for your entry (23). Just by way of an experiment, I have taken the liberty of replacing words and ideas connected with the word “homosexual” with “Christian” and vice versa: a kind of mirror image. Clearly, as has been demonstrated throughout this blogg, homosexuals can get away with any amount of bile, filth, obscenity, naked hatred and lies with total impunity. Whereas a view that expresses the slightest criticism of sodomy is likely to be rewarded with seven years in prison under new legislation going through what is left of Parliament now.

    Bon Appetit:

    “Oh dear oh dear have we stopped taking our drugs? Or are our homosexual ramblings merely the product of blind ignorance, bigotry and prejudice? The narcissistic bleating about homophobic crimes and bullying being prioritised is ludicrous and paranoid. Your allegations about homosexuals being an oppressed group are totally delusional. As for your nonsense about the homosexual holocaust it doesn’t even dignify a response. Its no wonder that so many rational people are beginning to question the moral and intellectual ‘authority’ of the present government that is dominated by homosexuals, lesbians and their friends like Ben Summerskill and that mouther of Shakespeare, Ian McKellen, who are in fact the political wing of Gaydar. If you had any real notion of compassion, humility or any so-called ‘values’ you wouldn’t sully this forum with your hate fuelled diatribe. If this is how homosexuals build bridges, advocate Hegelian and evolutionary humanism then its no wonder your days are numbered. You are ridiculous and irrelevant“. Amen

  46. Pumpkin Pie 16 May 2009, 9:38am

    That…makes no sense. Did you even proof-read it?

  47. David Skinner – Meanwhile- back in reality.
    The only ‘right’ gay people want to take away from you is the right to discriminate against our rights. It seems that causes you problems. This is the cause of this animosity you’ve been sensing as you visit our gay news website. Your literalist reading of a couple of Old Testament verses to the exclusion of all the other bogus moral lessons in the OT within the same books of the Bible has set you at loggerheads with us.
    Believe whatever mad idea you like, but if it encroaches on my civil rights and you’re going out of your way to visit OUR website prepare for some well deserved flak.
    BTW Parliament is still standing… check it out on Google earth. They may not pass all the laws you wanted, but last time I checked it’s still a democracy.

  48. david skinner 16 May 2009, 11:29am

    Flapjack I have not invoked one biblical reference to homosexuality, on this thread. I don’t think I have anywhere else on Pink News. Name me one. My appeal as been to common sense to which Pumpkin pie seems imperious.
    As for “rights” none of us have any except those which the Equality and Human Rights Commission consider to be rights and even these are discriminatorily dished out to their favourites, such as the gays. Where are children are the unborn child represented around the table of Sir Trevor Phillips? Children are nothing more than goods and services.

    What rights did Liam Lucas or Demetrious Panton have when Islington Social Services placed them and other children into the hands of homosexual paedophiles? Indeed what rights have countless numbers of children who have been placed in similar circumstance? Investigations are still being carried at Haut de la Garenne on the Isle of Jersey.

    What rights do children have who are removed from the care of their grandparents and natural parents by Social services and put in the hands of queer couples just so as to conform to the neo- religion of evolutionary engineering? This is unspeakable evil, which along with everything else in the country is driving many into the hands of the BNP.

    And as for flack and animosity I am under whelmed, I expected far more. Is this the best performance that people can put on?

  49. David Skinner – First it’s “Clearly, as has been demonstrated throughout this blogg, homosexuals can get away with any amount of bile, filth, obscenity, naked hatred and lies with total impunity.”
    Now you say “And as for flack and animosity I am under whelmed, I expected far more. Is this the best performance that people can put on?”
    So you tell me: too much ill tempered flack from us or too little? Once you’ve decided what you’re actually accusing us of be sure to let us know.
    I’m starting to suspect you simply enjoy the pointless trolling.

  50. David skinner wrote

    “The question is which will gain dominance in Britain – Fatalism and the dhimmitude of fascist Islam or evolutionary chance and the sodhimmitude of fascist homosexuality? I put my money on Islam.”

    But David Skinner . . . aren’t you here just to promote your Nazi Jesus as an alternative.

  51. david skinner 16 May 2009, 2:05pm

    Flapjack, the answer is both: I have no where used ad hominems or resorted brainless filth or slander in order to advance an argument. I don’t really enjoy wading through a sewer; on the other hand, from another point of view, these perverted and obscene comments do offer me some kind of macabre entertainment.

    As for trolling; I am no troll. I make no attempt to hide my views or deceive others. I am sincere in my comments but sadly others don’t think I have the right to hold them, even less express them. Thankyou anyway for your civility

  52. David Skinner

    What exaclty do you mean by the following (from thread 21)
    * Sodhimmitude
    * Fascist homosexuality?

    I am waiting for you answer

  53. david skinner 16 May 2009, 6:18pm

    John K , I don’t have the time to answer you question fully but it is a good one and maybe shortly I will do it better service. But just as an example of the police and the crown prosecution service being biased towards homosexuals I give this example of bullying and thuggery upheld by those in power. The behaviour of the homosexuals in this instance was reminiscent of that of Ernst Roehm’s Brown Shirts who later became the SS.

    Mr Harry Hammond a 65 year old street preacher, in 2001, in Bournemouth, felt deeply offended and threatened by the way Gays were taking over the centre of Bournemouth. In response he displayed placards that read ‘Stop Immorality’, ‘Stop Homosexuality’ and ‘Stop Lesbianism.’ About 30 gays, who obviously felt offended by this, attacked him, knocking him to the ground and pelting him with soil and water. Even though he was the one who was physically assaulted, the Crown Prosecution Service had him fined £300 with £350 court costs, plus the receipt of a criminal record for inviting this attack
    upon himself. He died a few months later. His attackers walked away scott- even.

    Even Peter Tatchell, bless, and give him his due he has courage, was appalled by this miscarriage of justice.

    One only has to look at Ben Summerskill to see the spectre of sodhimmitude. But more of this later.

  54. David Skinner – Is that how you see all gay people? I don’t condone acts of violence against pensioners, and if his death was a direct consequence of the mud hurling this should have been prosecuted as with any other violent crime of the same calibre. But one swallow doesn’t make a summer.
    We can all hone in on the worst of each other’s constituents, and I’ve certainly seen the reverse story of religious zealots and BNP supporter types beating up on gay people told often enough to make me flinch.
    However I don’t consider all Christians to be intrinsically evil. That’s a case of tarring everyone with the same brush, and to talk about us like we’re nothing more than a giant cabal of jackbooted stazi is singularly unhelpful. By and large we don’t all want to round up christians and boot them in the head you know.
    It’s time you saw us as individuals. Sure we have some bad apples who let the side down, but can you honestly say hand on heart that the christian church doesn’t have its fair share of those? And you may find if you weren’t so obsessed with what we do in the bedroom you might actually find you like some of us.
    If you constantly attack us on our home turf, you’re simply going to confirm all your worst prejudices (while simultaneously fuelling ours), as no-one wants to have a friendly conversation with a guy who does nothing but make you feel crap about yourself 24/7 and thinks all your human rights should be taken away.

  55. david skinner 16 May 2009, 10:18pm

    To return to answering your question concerning sodhimmitude, Ben Summerskill and the rest of Stonewall knew fully well that the British public, especially parents would not accept their children being taught that homosexuality was a viable or equivalent alternative to heterosexuality- not through homophobia or religious reasons but simply on the grounds of physical, mental, emotional and social downsides.

    “Madam would you like your little children to grow up as gay?” “Oh yes I want” is hardly the answer we would expect. She might answer instead, “! will continue to love them no matter how they grow up.” But that was not the question.

    Ben Summerskill knew that the public would not willingly embrace homosexuality and so he has resorted to using coercion through publicly humiliating people at the annual Stonewall Awards ceremonies. Public figures who try to uphold family values are dubbed “bigot of the year” and are expected to attend these glittering gatherings in order to receive this “award.”
    He has used his influence on the government, ever since Tony Blair ticked the shopping list that Ian McKellen presented to him in 1997, so as to bring in oppressive measures that end up with people, like the Bishop of Hereford and Scottish firemen being fined, dismiss them from their jobs, or having their businesses closed down. A friend of mine, Tom Forest, who runs a bed and breakfast in Scotland told me that the had to have police protection from homosexuals who had threatened to visit unspeakable violence on his wife and burn his guest house, because he refused a double bed to a gay couple.

    Ben Summerskill has systematically used bully tactics to impose homosexuality in schools, not just through indoctrination but getting those teachers who disagree with him, removed from their jobs.

    However, apart from using propaganda designed to spread the lie that homosexuals are being bullied and murdered disproportionately to the rest of the population and guiding the Gay Police Association and the Minority Support police to abuse their powers of arrest, he has now worked himself to the position where can demand from Gordon Brown measures that will gag anyone from expressing doubts about the homosexual life- style. Shortly, if this law is passed this year, I may well be facing a prison sentence of seven years for voicing just a fraction of the views that I have aired here- certainly longer than Boy George has for his crimes of sado- masochism.

    What Ben Summerskill seems to overlook is that if he succeeds in getting a clause through parliament this summer that would deem my comments an incitement to homophobic hatred, the Muslims will, as night follows day, demand to have the incitement to religious speech crime which they were denied at the beginning of 2006. In an email that I sent him he seemed to be very sanguine about the fact that he is opening the door to Shariah in this country. “They can only kill me once.” was his reply.
    Finally, or nearly so, when you say that I should not be concentrating on the sexual side of homosexuality, please tell me how else I am to recognise it from any other type of sexual orientation? We are not talking here about stamp collecting or knitting. We are talking about Gaydar and the Fulsom Street fair. A disproportionate number of homosexuals, like Lord Chris Smith, are distinguished from others by carrying the effects of sexually transmitted diseases; and if the gays insist on having their blood accepted into the National Blood Bank, I say OK; but in same way that you want gay only bars, gay rugby clubs, gay days at London Zoo, I would demand that you have gay only blood banks – don’t mix it with my blood.

    What militant gays don’t seem to have understood is that by relentlessly driving the homosexual agenda forward through the influence of people like Peter Mandelson, Angela Eagle, Chris Byant,Ben Bradshaw, Angela Mason, Spencer Livermor and Gandalf aka Ian McKellan, the public are becoming more and polarised, many of whom are heading towards the doors of the BNP. Violence is in the air all right and the gays have contributed towards this break down in social order and cohesion. If you push people far enough you will reap a whirlwind.

    The very people who could save you, the Christians, you persecute and slander, whilst you provoke and encourage the BNP , the Muslims and other extremists who have no regard for law, least of talking to you as I am doing now.

    Something you don’t seem to understand is that I and every human being have aspects of their character that they would prefer people not to know about. My battle is not against you personally but the evil I find in myself and the powers of this world. Maybe none of this makes any sense to you?

  56. david skinner 17 May 2009, 7:15am

    I don’t know if you are still there Flapjack, but when you say,“ no-one wants to have a friendly conversation with a guy who does nothing but make you feel crap about yourself 24/7 and thinks all your human rights should be taken away,” I am compelled to tell you that until you and I realise that we are all crap, fit only for destruction and that Jesus Christ came not to condemn us but to take on himself all our filth and to separate us from it as far as the east is from the west and to clothe us instead in his clean clothes so that when God looks at us he sees his Son…….. you will,…. without my telling you,….. feel crap about yourself; it’s called a guilty conscience!!

    As for human rights, that is some phoney humanist invention cooked up by men. We are either slaves to ourselves, our own fallen nature and ultimately Satan, or we accept the fact that Jesus Christ has bought us at a great price by dying on the cross and that now ownership has passed to him. To think that we are independent and autonomous is a delusion; none of us is God. Our only freedom is to choose to follow Jesus Christ – only if and when the offer is made . Until that happens we have no option but to do Satan’s bidding.

    Thereafter to follow Jesus Christ in our own strength is a human impossibility we have to be filled with the Holy Spirit who then enables us to do His works and not our own. This transformation following the transaction from one master to another, takes a life time with steps taken forward and steps taken backwards, but all the time Christ has us by the collar, even when we fall down. The result is that over time we find that we are hungry only for things that will do us good and not harm. Our desires change for the good things God wants to give us and not for the poison offered by Satan- for doing good and not evil.

    Jesus Christ came to the outcasts and those felt “crap about themselves,” who felt hungry and dissatisfied with their lives, such like the Samaritan woman at the well and the crooked tax collector, Zacchae’us, spoken of in John’s Gospel chapter 4 and Luke Chapter 19, respectively. Christ certainly never came to the proud and self- righteous.

    I am convinced that below the surface of gay pride there exists neither gaiety or pride- only bondage, loneliness and despair.

    C.S. Lewis, talking about the Christian message, said:-
    “…. It does not begin in comfort; it begins in dismay…and it is no use at all trying to go on to that comfort without first going through that dismay. In religion, as in war and everything else, comfort is the one thing you cannot get by looking for it. If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end. If you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth- only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair.”

    If you know the Truth, the Truth will make you free.

  57. David Skinner – See that’s where you and me differ drastically. I did the bible thing for 15 years and I’ve got to tell you, the way it works on your mind, especially the way you frame it it’s a sinkhole for your self-worth. It takes away your power to do genuine good, as anything good you did was god’s doing and anything bad you did was all your fault.
    You might as well stand on a street corner with a cat-o-nine tails and flagelate yourself raw for all the good it’ll do you.
    I simply don’t buy into it any more.
    If that’s where you’re at I highly recommend “the Six Pillars of Self-esteem” by Nathanial Brandon. What most psychologists agree on is if you loathe yourself, you can’t really love anyone else as you don’t even understand the fundamentals.
    CS Lewis should’ve known better.

  58. David Skinner what is your agenda on here ?

    *To save gay souls for Jesus?

    *To persuade gays that they should not expect to have the same
    rights and dignties as heterosexuals?

    *To persuade gays that they need to stop being homosexual and get
    therapy to become heterosexual?

    You know that this is a website dedicated to gay rights . . . so I am a little confused why you are here . . . some clarification.

    We are clear what this website is about . . . your presence here is not so clear

  59. david skinner 17 May 2009, 1:07pm

    David Skinner – See that’s where you and me differ drastically. I did the bible thing for 15 years and I’ve got to tell you, the way it works on your mind, especially the way you frame it it’s a sinkhole for your self-worth. It takes away your power to do genuine good, as anything good you did was god’s doing and anything bad you did was all your fault.
    You might as well stand on a street corner with a cat-o-nine tails and flagelate yourself raw for all the good it’ll do you.
    I simply don’t buy into it any more.
    If that’s where you’re at I highly recommend “the Six Pillars of Self-esteem” by Nathanial Brandon. What most psychologists agree on is if you loathe yourself, you can’t really love anyone else as you don’t even understand the fundamentals.
    CS Lewis should’ve known better.

    Mr Flapjack, You obviously didn’t flagelate yourself enough, although I understand that at the Folsom Street Fair and other venues, far from inducing the bad feel factor the use of the cat- o -nine tails actually heightens sexual pleasure. So which is it: feel bad or feel good?

    Joking apart, our low self – esteem often comes from the way our parents treated us. For homosexual men it can be that they never received affirmation from their fathers and so in a way they are constantly searching for the father they never had. What starts off as an emotional search in child hood becomes fixed when puberty and sexual attraction kick in. Homosexual friends and colleagues I have known invariably had distant and cold relationships with their fathers, whilst their overbearing mothers treated them as their little “man.”

    Jo Nicolosi from NARTH could tell you far more about this than me.

    As for not being able to love others when we hate ourselves, I absolutely agree. But I am not talking about self-esteem or loving ourselves but the love and esteem that Father God has for us. I feel valued because God values me . He valued me so much that he did not leave in the fallen state but cleaned me up and put me back on my feet. Jesus Christ did for me what I could not do for myself which was to foot the bill for my rebellion against God, clean me up on the inside and put His nature within me. No amount of Do – It – Yourself improvement schemes or bogus feel good exercises can alter the fact that human nature is morally and intellectually bankrupt – just like the present government – and needs saving.

    In my opinion your self improvement and self esteem programmes are doomed to failure, beside which God loves us infinitely more than we ever could. Our love for ourselves by comparison with the love God has for us is still self- loathing.

    Comment by Flapjack — May 17, 2009 @ 10:07
    David Skinner what is your agenda on here ?
    *To save gay souls for Jesus?
    *To persuade gays that they should not expect to have the same
    rights and dignties as heterosexuals?
    *To persuade gays that they need to stop being homosexual and get
    therapy to become heterosexual?
    You know that this is a website dedicated to gay rights . . . so I am a little confused why you are here . . . some clarification.
    We are clear what this website is about . . . your presence here is not so clear

  60. David Skinner – I simply don’t agree with your assessment of god’s love. If you buy into the whole trinity aspect of it and allow for the idea that God and Jesus are effectively the same guy, he’s getting himself crucified to save us from his own wrath. Say what?!?
    That’s not ‘salvation’, that’s S & M, not to mention schitzophrenic. Rather than deliberately getting himself executed to save us all from himself, a saner approach would be to simply forgive us. Or is that too sensible for an omnicient, all powerful being?
    Plus we only have the vaguest heresay evidence that we require saving from anything. You call it Satan, I call it “Shit happens”. This whole “I’m not worthy” trip is what keeps you depressed, and in thrall to an invisible dictator on high. You don’t even get to cease bowing down to him when you die. You’ll never be good enough for him… he set the bar so high you’ll perpetually be unworthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under his table.
    He can even convict you of thoughtcrimes, which paints you into a corner if you’re considering whether to sin or not. In order to simply weigh up your options you’d have to have considered a sin you could hypothetically commit, and rejecting it is no excuse.
    It’s like if I asked you not to think of a black cat… what’s the first thing you thought of? I’ve had Catholic friends decend into a bi-polar abyss over that one.
    Besides which, when I was getting my RE lessons, the priest in charge made it clear that Jesus only wiped the slate clean for everyone predating Jesus’s crucifixion. When we sin, we’re on our own.
    I don’t consider the hanging threat of eternal torment for any minor transgression to be the mark of a loving father figure.
    Maybe in your world that makes some kind of twisted sense, but not in mine. At best he’s an absent father figure, at worst he’s a vengeful rageaholic.
    Just as well there’s no solid evidence outside the bible to support the god hypothesis really.

  61. david skinner 17 May 2009, 5:41pm

    Flap Jack, and this is not a cop out, I don’t understand the Trinity either; but then no one does. There are a lot of things that you and I will never understand simply because our understanding is limited. Even scientists say that the more they discover, the less they know they know they know. Everyday we rely on systems that we don’t understand and yet we trust them. Do you wait until you understand everything about aeronautical engineering, weather patterns, navigation and air transport law before you catch a plane? As for computers – forget it. We exercise faith everyday.

    When you recommend that God could just have forgiven us, you know perfectly well that no one thinks like this. There is no one who would forgive a court for forgiving a Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, a mass murderer or Moira Hindley and Ian Brady. Everyone demands justice, especially their victims. But moreover, when we commit crimes against one another it is against God Himself that we transgress for we are his ultimate and most prized creation.

    But the world is in such a worsening state that only a judge whose standards of moral integrity are humanly impossible will be able to save us and herein lies our problem; unless the judge is corrupt and evil like us, he will inevitably come to hate all that we do and think, but if he is not a pure and absolutely just authority then we are also lost. As C.S. Lewis said, “He, the source of all our justice and goodness, would not only be the only comfort, he would also be the supreme terror; the person we must need and the person we most want to hide from. He would be our only possible ally, and we would make ourselves his enemy.”
    But worst of all is that even if we wanted to change our ways, we have neither the power or will to change. Even if someone foots the bill for us once, what is to stop us from repeat offending?

    Have looked at the state of Britain, let alone the world today? Human nature is not improving and as technology exponentially develops so man becomes more capable of self destruction. People everywhere are anxious about the future – especially that of our children. Call it Satan or whatever, but evil is an ever present and growing reality.

    Where is help to come from?

    Why should the fact that Jesus Christ came two thousands years ago to conquer the power of sin, lift me , as you put it, over the impossibly high bar, take away the consequences of sin (which is death), defeat Satan and promise to come again some day to bring in his perfect rule fill me with depression.? This is truly something to celebrate.

    As for thinking naughty thoughts 1 John 1:8- 10 says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

    And what about “The LORD is compassionate and gracious; slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbour his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him; for he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust. As for man, his days are like grass, he flourishes like a flower of the field; the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more. But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD’s love is with those who fear him and his righteousness with their children’s children- with those who keep his covenant and remember to obey his precepts.” (From psalm 103)

    FlapJack you have been had: deceived. Go back and read the Bible again. With the vast amount of internet Bible studies available you have no excuse for not getting your questions answered. But maybe like Pilate you are not interested in the Truth?

  62. David Skinner I will ask you for the second time!

    What is your agenda on here ?

    *To save gay souls for Jesus?

    *To persuade gays that they should not expect to have the same
    rights and dignties as heterosexuals?

    *To persuade gays that they need to stop being homosexual and get
    therapy to become heterosexual?

    You know that this is a website dedicated to gay rights . . . so I am a little confused why you are here . . . some clarification.

    We are clear what this website is about . . . your presence here is not so clear

  63. Pumpkin Pie 17 May 2009, 6:50pm

    David Skinnydip, what makes you so sure Christianity – and even then your own personal interpretation of Christianity – is the correct religion? Why not Hinduism? Why not Jainism? Personally, if I had to choose one – just for the sake of argument, ‘cos I’m an atheist – I’d go for Buddhism. Seems way more convincing than Christianity, plus its message feels more positive.

    Oh, also…

    “Joking apart, our low self – esteem often comes from the way our parents treated us. For homosexual men it can be that they never received affirmation from their fathers and so in a way they are constantly searching for the father they never had. What starts off as an emotional search in child hood becomes fixed when puberty and sexual attraction kick in. Homosexual friends and colleagues I have known invariably had distant and cold relationships with their fathers, whilst their overbearing mothers treated them as their little “man.””

    Yeah, you actually have to have some sort of evidence to back up claims like this. Psychology is a science, not a rhetoric device. Where’s your sources?

    PS: The rest of your rambling is also hilarious (but eventually boring – you overdid it this time) bullshit, but I just felt like homing in on the pseudo-science, because I likes my psychology and nobody’d mentioned it yet.

    PPS: Just for fun, what’s your opinion on people who cross-dress for fun (as in, not for fetishy or sexual purposes, ‘cos I know you hate those)?

  64. david skinner 17 May 2009, 8:49pm

    I have asked myself the same question. Maybe you need to ask those who control the comments page. I thought gays were into inclusion, diversity of opinion, broadmindedness, equality and tolerance of others. Perhaps I was wrong?

  65. Pumpkin Pie 17 May 2009, 9:20pm

    That’s like saying you thought albinos liked playing chess. You#re not making any sense. Make some sense.

  66. david skinner 17 May 2009, 9:36pm

    Pumpkin pie how can we be certain of anything? How can you be certain of what you believe concerning existence, morals and how we know what we know? For you must have come to some conclusion about life. Maybe for you life is absurd and without meaning? You are simply a puddle of water which will one day evaporate without trace?

    What are you certain of?

    We find out if something is true if it survives severe testing and from what I have experienced in my own life and seen in that of others the Bible accords with history and reality. No other book has been able to make so many precise and accurate predictions; there are three hundred alone, made centuries before, concerning the coming of Jesus Christ.
    As far as other religions are concerned,you have to ask yourself where are those nations that are governed by them? For instance if Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam are so great why is that we are not all flocking to live those countries instead of them flocking to live in the west? Do countries like North Korea, Afghanistan, Nepal and Burma suffer from illegal immigrants? Though it is true Britain is no longer a Christian country we live in its after – glow and are living off its inheritance, before we enter an age of barbarism. The West is a rotting carcase with people from distant lands flocking to feed off it.

    What do I think about people who cross dress just for fun? I presume you are talking about Fred Emery, Barry Humphries and Les Dawson? Hilarious.

    Must go now.

  67. Pumpkin Pie 18 May 2009, 1:37pm

    “We find out if something is true if it survives severe testing and from what I have experienced in my own life and seen in that of others the Bible accords with history and reality. No other book has been able to make so many precise and accurate predictions; there are three hundred alone, made centuries before, concerning the coming of Jesus Christ.”

    You actually have to have some sort of evidence to make such a claim. If there was convincing enough evidence, I would also believe in a god. See, I’m not biased by any belief other than the desire to know the truth. Truth is not partisan, if a member of any sort of religion says “trust me” or “you’d have to be a Christian to understand”, that’s not impartial, falsifiable evidence, which is the only evidence that’s actually worth anything – that’s propaganda.

    “As far as other religions are concerned,you have to ask yourself where are those nations that are governed by them? For instance if Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam are so great why is that we are not all flocking to live those countries instead of them flocking to live in the west? Do countries like North Korea, Afghanistan, Nepal and Burma suffer from illegal immigrants? Though it is true Britain is no longer a Christian country we live in its after – glow and are living off its inheritance, before we enter an age of barbarism. The West is a rotting carcase with people from distant lands flocking to feed off it.”

    Wait, so our prosperity is based on Christianity and not conveniently timed scientific and engineering advances which gave us a headstart on other nations, thus allowing us to plunder, conquer and exploit them, gaining huge wealth and influence in the process? Huh. You learn something new every day. Cut the crap and tell me why Christianity is so much better than other religions. And try to do it without using specious circular arguments.

    “What do I think about people who cross dress just for fun? I presume you are talking about Fred Emery, Barry Humphries and Les Dawson? Hilarious.”

    I’m not as into pop culture as you seem to be, so I’m not entirely sure who those people are. I was talking about your everyday non-celebrity cross-dressers. Casual ones, too, not those who do it as part of some sort of act.

  68. @ david skinner & other Christian proselytizers

    Let’s take a look at what Biblical Christianity requires its credulous followers to believe:

    YHVH/Elohim/God “the Father” is God
    Jesus Christ “the Son” is God
    The Holy Spirit is God

    God had to sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to save believers from the Wrath of… Himself!

    God was INCAPABLE of simple forgivenness in return for genuine repentance.

    And if we don’t believe this blasphemous nonsense we’ll be tortured mercilessly forever!

    Pull the other one, Christian, it’s got bells on!

  69. “Even scientists say that the more they discover, the less they know they know they know. Everyday we rely on systems that we don’t understand and yet we trust them. Do you wait until you understand everything about aeronautical engineering, weather patterns, navigation and air transport law before you catch a plane? As for computers – forget it. We exercise faith everyday.”

    Of course scientists happily claim ignorance. You are the one who clims to have all the answers, what happened at the beginning of time and who was responsible. Funny how christians claim to be so humble, while making the most arrogant claims at the same time.

    We are not exercising blind faith when we step into an aeroplane, or a lift, actually. We don’t need to understand the laws of thermodynamics ourselves, but we can look them up, cross check with peer reviewed articles. We can even challenge them if a better explanation of the facts comes along.

    We can use laws and theories to make precise predictions, whether it’s quantum science, radioactive dating of rocks, finding fossils in rock layers. And so on.

    Science works: aeroplanes and space shuttles fly; magic carpets and broomsticks don’t. Your screeds are nothing but inane white noise; you make a whole lot of promises, without providing any way of testing your claims or any evidence whatsoever of any happy customers.

    As for being convinced gay people cannot be happy – be honest, you’re determined to ensure gay people will not be happy. People are usually happy when interfering religious crackpots like you aren’t getting up everyone’s noses.

  70. David Skinner wrote
    “I have asked myself the same question. Maybe you need to ask those who control the comments page. I thought gays were into inclusion, diversity of opinion, broadmindedness, equality and tolerance of others. Perhaps I was wrong?”

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    My question to David Skinner

    Why is that Fundamentalist Christians are not into inclusion, diversity of opinion, broadmindedness, equality and tolerance of others.

  71. I don’t understand what skinner is complaining about – his views are evidently tolerated because they have not been removed.

    As for broadmindedness – well, his views are put to the same scrutiny as everyone else’s and they don’t stand to reason. And tolerance has to be reciprocated. Skinner can’t even tolerate criticism….

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