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Row in Canterbury as gay group accuses council of ‘ignoring’ gay issues

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  1. Brian Burton 13 May 2009, 5:47pm

    Pride in Canterbury, keep plugging away at the stubborn Council. inandate them with requests consyantly and bide your time.

  2. This the sort of annoying whiney nonsense that pisses people off. If these people want a gay bar they should go and run one. Why do they assume that gay people wouldn’t simply be interested in Canterbury for the same reasons as everyone else?

  3. I know Canterbury like the back of my hand. Grew up there. It’s a deeply conservative place dominated, physically and mentally, by that blasted Cathedral that looms over the entire town.

    What’s more the Mayor there in my day was deeply Tory and even tried to recruit me to put a stop to a plan for a gay night in a building nearby. Have just had a look at who the new mayor is and I can’t see EXACTLY what party he is likely to support but I will leave you all to form your own opinion of how innovative Mr. Cyril Windsor is likely to be! Mustn’t judge a book by its cover, of course!

    The problem with Canterbury is the Anglican church. There isn’t a direct link as far we were ever able to make out between the Cathedral and the Council but Canterbury is swamped with High Church Anglicans who live there because of the Cathedral and the history of the place and these are the people who dominate the Council. All of them are deeply deeply conservative. They’re actually mostly all Cockneys from years back who came down to pick the hops. So in a way it’s like the whitest part of the East End. You won’t see an Asian or a black person in Canterbury, outside of an Indian restaurant. And you won’t see any obvious gays either.

    Having said that there was quite a bit of gay life going on there but all, sadly, rather underground. Had to be careful too when all the bloods and their sluts teemed in from all over East Kent on a Friday and Saturday night to storm around the town getting drunk and pissing in the streets. Late on Saturday nights some of them would be f—–g on the church lawn opposite Witherspoons!

    So not surprised they’re still having a tough time in Canterbury. Last time I was home I popped into Waterstone’s. Was there a gay and lesbian section like in every other Waterstone’s? Not on your nelly!

  4. This is tremendous news.

    It may interest you to know that as a member of Dignity Canada, a small goup of gay catholics seeking reform in our church’s sexual theology, we are being completely ignored by the Conference of Catholic Bishops, and we have been forbidden to hold our meetings in any church property.

    If I understand correctly, the Equality Bill will have the effect that the Wolfendon Report was supposed to have had, instead of giving blanket equal rights to every social and or religious group most often at odds with one another. The result being that life in the UK became more like a frustrating merry-go-round than a flight towards freedom and equality for the LGBT population.

    This Equality Bill may very well have a similar effect as would have the separation of State and Religion. Anyway, that is my profound wish.

    Go for it!

  5. Pete & Michael 13 May 2009, 7:10pm

    Yeh, we have the same problem with Crewe & Nantwich Council within the new East Cheshire Council, although they were keen to fly the Rainbow Flag for IDAHO day in Crewe two years ago, the former council and now new council have shown no interest in the gay community since. The Councillor for Safer Communities did not respond to a letter we mailed him. Homophobia at its most, we say!.

  6. I take my hat off to Pride in Canterbury as they have done a lot of good work for Kent, not just Canterbury. I don’t see that it is up to the council to provide a ‘gay bar’ although you can imagine their response to a licence application. But, the council should be involved in efforts to kick-start social provision for groups of gay people who do live in the city area who may find it difficult to visit a gay bar. Not far away from Canterbury is Thanet were things look quite different. The council appears to see an inclusive community as a good thing for everyone and supports Thanet Pride.

  7. Is it April 1st again already?

  8. I go with Luke on this, if they want all these provisions, let them provide them themselves. All this whinging about equality, and when they get treated as equals, (ie they get bugger all like everybody else) – they still complain. And what exactly are we supposed to be celebrating? It’s a sexuality, not a fucking party. No wonder peoples hackles go up when all these silly queens start DEMANDING special attention. Acts like this really give the average fag-in-the-street a really bad reputation.

    Incidentally, I’ve seen three gay pubs close in my area (which is crawling with gays) close down due to lack of support. Everyone moans and says they don’t go there any more because it’s always dead. Go figure.

  9. Brian Burton 14 May 2009, 7:13am

    Flowers that bloom in the spring Tra-La as we merrily dance and we sing Tra-La. On this site it’s like waching a ping-pong match. Two and fro, two and fro… What do yo get if you cross a large chamber pot with a table tennis ball? Answer, you get a ping-pong piddle ay poe!

  10. david skinner 14 May 2009, 8:23am

    A characteristic of homosexuality is a deep seated insecurity stemming from a lack of identity. Uncertain of who they are, homosexuals desperately try to identify with first one group and then another. First it is with black people, then it is with gay sheep and penguins, then it is with the disabled and now it is even with heterosexuals. Much could be said about this, but along with many black people who are deeply offended with being identified with gays, I object most strongly to being asked to identify as heterosexual, as though it were a given that I have a menu of sexual orientations from which I am forced to choose. I am a man.

    Whilst black, disabled and those of different races do not wish to be segregated or singled out for different treatment, negative or positive, the homosexuals insist on being given distinction – gay hotels, gay bars, gay Olympic games, gay rugby teams, gay MPs. They demand that we include their demand to be exclusive – the inclusive right to exclusivity. This is amply demonstrated with the London Zoo putting on homosexual Sunday, where heterosexual mums and dads who have paid hard cash for them and their children to enter are excluded from the pink areas.

    Maybe Canterbury council should be forced to develop a vibrant community of blacks, left- handed, disabled, Jews, the bald, ginger- haired, height challenged and Muslims, with clubs and bars exclusively for these groups. By setting such a precedent the LGBTs are legitimising the demand being made by Muslims for their own vibrant contributions, such as the public execution of homosexuals and the oppression of women. This is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

    And dare I ask what apart from the broad, rainbow highway leading to bio- polar depression, narcissism, sexual violence, sexually transmitted diseases, paedophilia and a death wish make Peter Tatchell, Outrage, Garry Frisch, Kevin Greening, Gaydar and Boy George so vibrant?

    By pushing homosexuality in the face of 98% of the so-identified heterosexual public, the gay lobby are in fact provoking and stoking up a homophobic hatred which if it wasn’t there before will certainly manifest itself soon. No amount of diversity training or political correctness will soften the hearts of those sections of British society for whom violence is part and parcel of their orientation. The emotional and spiritual disorder of homosexuality is already accelerating a breakdown in family life which in turn is leading to social disorder and anarchy. We have seen nothing yet.

  11. Tim Roll-Pickering 14 May 2009, 10:30am

    I recall from when I was a student in Canterbury (1998-2002) there were two gay bars – West Bar and Bar 11 (with some name changes). However when I was last down there (Easter Sunday) I saw the old West Bar had closed. I can’t remember where Bar 11 was – these weren’t especially memorable bars.

    Canterbury itself is quite a small city (confusingly the local government district, which also takes in Whitstable, Herne Bay and many outlying villages, is called “City of Canterbury” and population stats often get the two confused) with 43,432, but that appears to be based on the 2001 census. There are large transient military and student populations that can significantly vary the total population in the city at any one time even further (and from memory the census was done in term time) so for large times of the year the figure is probably closer to 30,000.

    I suspect the gay bars have just not proved economically viable, particularly as the LGBT community in Canterbury is not only small but also in my day key segments of the community were rather too prone to mount bar boycotts over the most trivial of things which I suspect couldn’t have been the most helpful for business. It would seem to be insufficient patronage that has ended the bars (especially as all bars & pubs are currently facing difficult times), but why let such things get in the way of making cheap political points?

  12. RobN where are you coming from with “I’ve seen three gay pubs close in my area (which is crawling with gays)”? You can’t seriously be a gay man. I think you are a homophobic troll who visits PinkNews to stir up shit – which suggests you have a rather unhealthy obsession with gay matters. I wonder.

  13. Hi, Tim. Yes, I remember Bar 11 and West Bar too. Didn’t know West Bar had closed. Bar 11 though was always more of a place that had a reputation for allowing gays to drink there rather than being a gay bar. Whenever I went in there might be half a dozen gay men drinking separately in the bar area or perhaps talking quietly in twos or threes.

    But go to Gaydar and bring up the membership that is registered as living in Canterbury, Tim, and it’s enormous! The place that Nick Eden-Green or Eden-Smith (I can’t remember, sorry) who was Mayor at that time, tried to shut down was doing a roaring business once a week because there was nothing else. They were running a once-a-week club night, I seem to remember. They put up harmless ads around Canterbury and the Anglican old ladies were running round tearing them down!

    So the numbers are there, Tim, and the market is there, it’s just that the place is very homophobic and dominated by the Cathedral, the Kings School and a Council that is partial to both. CCC is all about preserving Canterbury as an ancient medieval town.

    Well, it certainly is medieval in more ways than one. Canterbury is actually a frightening place to walk after 8pm on a Friday or Saturday night because of the straight lads and their girls pissed and pub-crawling from bar to bar. You should see the French tourists take fright and flee back to the B&Bs! It'[s as bad as the centre of Sheffield or Nottingham.

  14. Brian Burton 14 May 2009, 11:44am

    David Skinner,
    You are the chicken-plucker who bats for the HOMOPHOBIC team. Listen in your shell-like ear a moment Skinner: “GOD has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus, He has created us for a life of good deeds, which He has already prepared us to do.” This do’se not mean HOMOPHOBIC sickos like you can insult our Gay community! Nay, nay and thrice nay o son of the devil. Get thee behind me satan!

  15. david skinner 14 May 2009, 12:37pm

    Take care Brian Burton or I shall report you for inciting Christophobic hatred which could lead to much longer than seven years in prison – infinitely longer. I also gather from your response that homosexuals, apart from hiding their hatred behind artistic performance ( Elton John) and just joking ( Alan Duncan MP and Miss California) are now resorting to mouthing, mangled and misquoted cut and paste quotes from the Bible.

    It was Popeye the Sailor Man who said I “yam what I yam.” Whereas it was Jesus christ who demanded that we be transformed and renewed in our minds. It’s time morph Brian and with God’s help all things are possible.

  16. Funny, the council will take gay money in the form of taxes, but not be inclusive and sympathetic to the LGBT needs. As far as a gay bar is concerned, that is up to someone in the community to set up. Maybe if the LGBT community in Canterbury has a higher profile, the council will start to take note. We can’t always blame everyone else.

    And as far as David Skinner is concerned, we are still subjected to abuse in the streets if we show our partner affection, something that the straight community takes for granted. It wasn’t that long ago that racist laws were in place to stop mixed race couples from sharing a bus, or sitting together. The reason why gay bars are still needed is so that gay people have a place that they can go without being subjected to outdated homophobic verbal and physical attacks. I would be the first one to cheer the day that there isn’t a need for seperate bars, clubs etc. As human beings we are all different, we are individuals that should be celebrating diversity xx

  17. Oh, dear, everybody, that “David Skinner” lunatic-troll is back. Just ignore him. He’s an automaton that spouts nonsense from a programme which is indelibly installed in a hidden folder on his hard-disc. The only way of helping him would be to get your physical hands on him force him to do a complete re-format.

  18. david skinner 14 May 2009, 2:12pm

    Ric, homosexuality, unlike race, colour of hair and other genetic differences is not immutable. How do you explain that the Eagle twins, Maria and Angela are not both lesbians? We have been through all this before. Peter Tatchell, even, in an article that he wrote in Spiked online, Tuesday, 24th 2008, entitled ‘Homosexuality: it isn’t natural’ concedes that he has choice as to whether or not to follow his sexual inclination.

    A baby may well be born as a drug addict due to ingesting drugs in the womb. It has no choice in this, but as it grows and matures it will have the responsibility of either pursuing a lifestyle of dependency or breaking free. Others will come to drug addiction through the influence of dealers, whilst they are young and impressionable. Some may even come to it through living in a community or society dominated by drugs- through societal pressures. And yet again some might come to drug addiction, later in life, through a philosophical decision, ie., they will be encouraged to experiment with it as means of authenticating their lives. Which ever way drug addiction leads to an early death.

    Likewise the routes to homosexuality are just as various.

    Our sexuality is plastic in that it can be trained to go in all manner of directions, but once imprinted it is extremely difficult to change.

    You cannot be unaware that in America the Hate Crime law, S.909 (and HR1913), will make 30 sexual orientations federally-protected. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has published 30 such sexual orientations that, because of Congress’s refusal to define “sexual orientation,” will be protected under this legislation.

    Among those sexual orientations being protected by S.909 (and HR1913) are these:

    Apotemnophilia – sexual arousal associated with the stump(s) of an Amputee
    Asphyxophilia – sexual gratification derived from activities that involve oxygen deprivation through hanging, strangulation, or other means
    Autogynephilia – the sexual arousal of a man by his own perception of himself as a woman or dressed as a woman
    Bisexual – the capacity to feel erotic attraction toward, or to engage in sexual interaction with, both males and females
    Coprophilia – sexual arousal associated with feces
    Exhibitionism – the act of exposing one’s genitals to an unwilling observer to obtain sexual gratification
    Fetishism/Sexual Fetishism – obtaining sexual excitement primarily or exclusively from an inanimate object or a particular part of the body
    Frotteurism – approaching an unknown woman from the rear and pressing or rubbing the penis against her buttocks
    Heterosexuality – the universal norm of sexuality with those of the opposite sex
    Homosexual/Gay/Lesbian – people who form sexual relationships primarily or exclusively with members of their own gender
    Gender Identity Disorder – a strong and persistent cross-gender identification, which is the desire to be, or the insistence that one is, or the other sex, “along with” persistent discomfort about one’s assigned sex or a sense of the inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex
    Gerontosexuality – distinct preference for sexual relationships primarily or exclusively with an elderly partner
    Incest – sex with a sibling or parent
    Kleptophilia – obtaining sexual excitement from stealing
    Klismaphilia – erotic pleasure derived from enemas
    Necrophilia – sexual arousal and/or activity with a corpse
    Partialism – A fetish in which a person is sexually attracted to a specific body part exclusive of the person
    Pedophilia – Sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger). The individual with pedophilia must be age 16 years or older and at least 5 years older than the child. For individuals in late adolescence with pedophilia, no precise age difference is specified, and clinical judgment must be used; both the sexual maturity of the child and the age difference must be taken into account; the adult may be sexually attracted to opposite sex, same sex, or prefer either
    Prostitution – the act or practice of offering sexual stimulation or intercourse for money
    Sexual Masochism – obtaining sexual gratification by being subjected to pain or humiliation
    Sexual Sadism – the intentional infliction of pain or humiliation on another person in order to achieve sexual excitement
    Telephone Scatalogia – sexual arousal associated with making or receiving obscene phone calls
    Toucherism – characterized by a strong desire to touch the breast or genitals of an unknown woman without her consent; often occurs in conjunction with other paraphilia
    Transgenderism – an umbrella term referring to and/or covering transvestitism, drag queen/king, and transsexualism
    Transsexual – a person whose gender identity is different from his or her anatomical gender
    Transvestite – a person who is sexually stimulated or gratified by wearing the clothes of the other gender
    Transvestic Fetishism – intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing
    Urophilia – sexual arousal associated with urine
    Voyeurism – obtaining sexual arousal by observing people without their consent when they are undressed or engaged in sexual activity
    Zoophilia/Bestiality – engaging in sexual activity with animals.

    Ric, is this the kind of diversity that we are going to be forced to celebrate? I hate to disabuse you of the idea, even at this late stage, that the general public are going to find this acceptable, that is unless you happen to live Brighton and other seaside, homosexual enclaves, such as Margate.

  19. Yes I would say Canterbury City Council is discriminating! 1 event in the passed year! Nothing for LGBT history month.

  20. Johnathan: Where are you coming from, and what medication are you taking for it? I simply stated three gay bars in my area, which has a high gay population, have all closed down due to lack of business. What kind of “trolling” is that supposed to be? It’s a simple statement of fact.

    The fundamental change is that gay men used to go to gay pubs to pick up. Now they can do that on the internet. Also pubs are expensive, there’s the hassle of getting there and back, and many gay men are smokers like myself really don’t bother any more. Pubs are now closing at the rate of over 20 a week due to the combination of high prices and the smoking ban. Blame our government for killing pubs.

    As for homophobia, I’m not scared of gay men, I am one. However I still dislike the majority of them, and if you see that as a threat, tough. There is still no law that states what opinions I can and cannot hold. (Yet.)

  21. Poor David Skinner is clearly mentally ill. He can, of course, receive psychiatric help for his religious mania. I recommend that he should ask for such help.

  22. RobN I think Jonathan was referring to the impression you create by the language you use, viz. “crawling with gays”. Though you say you’re gay it doesn’t sound like you’ve got much self-esteem. Which figures, because you admit you still smoke cigarettes! :-)

  23. david skinner 14 May 2009, 4:24pm

    Neville it is most kind of you to offer such conciliatory remarks. I am most touched. But if it is true, as you suggest, that I am mentally ill then let me have more of it for this Christian delusion, as you might call it, gives me a hope, a future, purpose, certainty, a new identity, clarity of thought, inner peace, joy, security and the moral courage to say and do what I would not otherwise be able do in my own strength. Thank God, Neville, for this delusion and may God send it to all those who are enslaved to their lusts and appetites for their slavery is indeed an awful reality.
    Jesus Christ came to set the captives free- free from the power of death, sin and Satan. If this is mental illness lets have more it for it has resulted in western civilisation with its artistic, scientific and social achievements. Whereas, homosexuality contributes nothing but bi- polar depression, sexually transmitted diseases, violence and Nadim Kurrimbukus,William Beggs,Anthony Morley, Giles de Rais, Ernst Roehm and Boy George.

    Jesus Christ said,” know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:32

  24. After his last posting (22) it has become obvious that David Skinner is not just mentally ill, he is seriously mentally ill and should, therefore, be confined to a mental hospital.

  25. Brian Burton 14 May 2009, 5:18pm

    David Skinner,
    You report me all you like you SICKO! I will be proud to fight your HOMOPHOBIC Ravings in the Highest Court in the UK!

  26. Brian Burton 14 May 2009, 5:24pm

    You are right on the button with this SICKO Skinner!

  27. Yep, guys, the so-called “David Skinner” is the visiting sicko-troll all right, nipping from one thread to another under different names.

    If the guy had a loving woman, a loving family, a good set of straight guy-mates, he would not be spending his time hanging out with us gay guys.

  28. david skinner 14 May 2009, 8:47pm

    As I was saying to Ric, there is no point in trying to identify homosexuality with race.

    OneNewsNow have just reported:

    ‘The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there’s no homosexual “gene” — meaning it’s not likely that homosexuals are born that way.
    For decades, the APA has not considered homosexuality a psychological disorder, while other professionals in the field consider it to be a “gender-identity” problem. But the new statement, which appears in a brochure called “Answers to Your Questions for a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality,” states the following:
    “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles….”
    That contrasts with the APA’s statement in 1998: “There is considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person’s sexuality.”

    The attempt to compare discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation with that of race, gender and disability etc was an attempt to identify homosexuality with descriptors such as race which of themselves- in spite of the efforts of Hitler and the BNP to prove otherwise- are relatively innocuous, in- born traits, in that their effects on social cohesion, economy and health are not dramatically significant.

    By contrast, ever since the sixties, when sex became detached from the boundaries of marriage and family and from the morality and truth of the Judeo/Christian faith, it has become merely a recreational activity that can be practised in whatever form one wishes; but, like high explosive that is no longer confined by its steel casing, or a nuclear core that is withdrawn from its protective surrounds, it becomes a force for destruction when it is no longer bounded by the protective laws that used to surround marriage. It has resulted in the dehumanising and the reduction of the individual to being simply a lump of meat, to the misery of unwanted pregnancies, abortion on an industrial scale, an explosion of Sexually Transmitted Diseases HIV, AIDs, rape, the continuing break up of the family and now teenage murders. So much for a successful and progressive Britain under Tony Blair, where everyone can achieve their potential.

  29. Brian Burton 14 May 2009, 9:13pm

    Sicko Skinner,
    You shall be known from now on as Cesspool Sally on this PINK site. Every time your unwanted presence is with us. All will refer to you as Cesspool Sally. Really, lets face it, you are a ‘Big Girls Blows!’

  30. Brian Burton 15 May 2009, 7:34am

    We will have to hope that Cesspool Sally will evaporate in her volume of Crapp she spouts about Homosexual people, who are as pure and clean as we all are.

  31. Er, I thought this thread was about the problems of Gay Pride in Canterbury but I find Sicko Skinner, Cesspool Skinner, is using it to vomit up his hatred of all homosexuals. Can’t somebody email Pink News and have them blacklist this troll?

  32. Chris: It is a common statistic that more gay men smoke than straight ones. I have no idea why, but that’s a fact. “Owning up” to the fact I smoke is bullshit, I have no qualms in stating so, and it’s my personal choice, before this nanny state imposes yet more restrictions.

    My self-esteem is fine, I just don’t lump myself in that mythical gathering known as a “gay community”, which is an oxymoron in itself. Gay men do f–k all for anyone unless they personally benefit. Just because I don’t like gay men, or the gay scene does not viv-a-viz equate that I don’t like myself.

    In fact, I think I’m one of the nicest people I know.

  33. Brian Burton 1 Jun 2009, 10:34pm

    I say, I say, I say…My rubbish bin is absolutley filled with Toadstools. How do I know they are toadstools? because there’s not mushroom inside!

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