Good we don’t need stupid headcases like the Phelps here!
Ex-Ku Klux Klan leader Stephen “Don” Black? His surname… How Ironic!
This is kind of old news, because this was made public around the time of the production of The Laramie Project in Basingstoke. But it’s good to know that they have been named on the publicly available list.
These WBC people need to be banned from every country in the World!
“Unless they intend to begin checking the bare backsides of every person coming into that country to find that tattoo that says ‘Property of WBC [Westboro Baptist Church]‘, they will have no way of identifying who is from WBC.”
Jesus, and they think we’re kinky! I would guess that the big giveaway would be the big placards in the suitcase, tricky to smuggle those through customs.
I could suggest somewhere they could hide them, somewhere labeled with a tattoo saying “Property of Westboro Baptist Church”, though it might make walking difficult.
But in any event they’re all mouth and no trousers. They keep telling us they’ve planned UK pickets and on every occasion they’re a no-show.
I still say starve them of publicity, reporting on them gives them delusions of grandeur.
Sorry, folks. Their presence at funerals and parades here has hurt their “cause” more than it has hurt ours. Their obnoxiousness merely gains derision.
this is outrages to put an american patriot like michael savage on the same level with muslim extremists who kill people, michael savage has never touched a fly on the wall, he is just talking the truth from his heart.
london, why are you so afraid of michael savage? because he may expose you for the world that you are not the london of the past because you lost your way. instead of taking on the real challenge to battle your enemies within, the muslim extremists who are terrorising jews & christans on daily basis & will in a few years take over your country, you have picked the wrong fight’ we are all behind michael savage & we will not travel to the uk untill michael savage is taken off that list http://twitter.com/savage_limbaugh
Unless its hate-speech, I would not ban anyone from entering ther country. However odious the opinion, democracy has to accommodate that voice (whether a demonstration should be allowed at a private funeral is a completely different matter).
Not sure whether it’s old news… I’m personally marking on the calendar the first time I’ve ever agreed with anything Jacqui Smith has done.
Adrian… in the article it says they chant “God hates fags” and there’s a picture of a little kid who’s been given a placard of the same words to parade with… doesn’t that class as hate speech?
nobody has the right “Not to be offended” in a liberal democracy. Everyone has the right not to feel threatened though, and the right of free speech is limited to where it cannot harm or cause a breach of the peace.
I say let them in,, and if they break the law (such as behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace (say by demonstrating at a funeral) do them,and refuse them access to public property
The Phelps clan isn’t really a large political threat. They are theologically so beyond the pale that even some other anti-gay Christians have developed a conspiracy theory, in which Phelps and Co are actually being financed by the “International Homosexual Conspiracy” to discredit religion. Indeed, Gay Times two years ago reported on the effect of the Phelps’ offensive gatecrashing of dead soldiers’ funerals in the US. The (mostly conservative, Republican) families forged alliances with gay and liberal groups to fight the Phelps and afterwards, were much more likely to be gay-friendly. So it seems that the Westboro Baptist Cult really does assist gay acceptance.
This by no means should be taken to suggest that they should therefore be free to enter the United Kingdom. On the contrary, keeping them out of the country just gives them another thing to rant about on their supremely pointless website, and as such, diffuses their energy.
Mihangel aPyrs, I agree with you. We have to be very careful when exercising free speech. As obnoxious and offensive as Phelps’ language is, I would support his right to say anything as long as it doesn’t directly incite someone to commit a violent act against others. Personally, I doubt if he’d find a big audience in the UK, he’d probably be ridiculed as a right wing religious nutcase like Stephen Green and nobody would really take him seriously.
Chamdas, I’ve heard Michael Savage’s hate-filled rants against a lot of things, expecially gay people. He’s actually advocated having us annihilated, a violent act that would result in execution. Phelps though equally offensive hasn’t yet gone that far. In Savage’s case, the UK government was absolutely right banning him from entering the country.
Accusing muslims of terrorising jews and christians, a bit rich coming from a hypocrite like you. You have a short memory assuming you have one….christians not so long ago terrorised Jews in Spain and native Indians in South America. Your kind of accusation is nothing more than hate speech trying to foment hatred against an entire group of people. You’re not only a hypocrite but a bigot, no wonder you support Savage.
On a more serious note, here’s a personal account by Fred Phelps’ estranged son Nate about how it felt to grow up under his father’s abusive regime. It made me think perhaps Phelps should have gone to jail a long while ago. The man isn’t fit to run a church or a family…
Thank God we have Jacqui Smith to tell us what ideas the British people can and cannot be exposed to.
Let them in: let Savage and Phelps, and Wilders and all the motley crew of bigots and hate-mongers and chronic attention-seekers in. As long as they are not actually inciting violent acts, they should be treated with the polite disdain they deserve. Sanctifying their various causes with the aura of persecution is exactly the wrong thing to do.
Ban them…we just dont want them recruiting our people to there cause.In Britain if your speech insites violence you can be arrested.America is the most polarised nation on Earth because hate speech is tolerated and poisons your people.We have enough problems and not enough space to have their hatred really kick off.Britain has more tolernce and love for diversaty in it`s little finger than america could ever hope to have.
Mihangel apYrs says: “let them in,, and if they break the law (such as behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace (say by demonstrating at a funeral) do them,and refuse them access to public property”
I think the idea is to stop things like these from happening in the first place!
The Phelps will do their dirty deeds regardless of what laws we have in this country. So the ban is spot on and justifiable.
p.s. I hope the ban apply to the Westboro Babtist Church as whole, not just the Phelps family themselves.
Phelps-Roper: “Unless they intend to begin checking the bare backsides of every person coming into that country to find that tattoo that says ‘Property of WBC [Westboro Baptist Church]‘, they will have no way of identifying who is from WBC.”
That clears up the urban myth that “Property of WBC” is what’s written on the piece of paper inserted in their skulls after WBC removes their brains. Nice to know we can just look at their bums to prevent their jumping into our beds when they’re horny.
Every time I see that photograph of the three young kids holding up their banners it makes me feel quite ill. What chance have they got of growing up with any balanced view of life when they are being told to hate. It’s child abuse plain and simple.
‘… gives them delusions of grandeur’.
Could not have said it better or more succinctly myself. Good man.
Agree with you all the way.
Mihangel ap Yrs (9):
Sorry to disagree. Phelps has already proven how offensive he can be and how his tactics (strategy) can trigger violence against LGBT persons, e.g. Mathew Shepherd.
I am willing to admit that my thinking need to evolve, but for the moment I believe it is best to be cautious.
It only one bullet…
rjb(12) As a Canadian, I feel very deeply that Jacqui Smith has restored my faith in the UK as one of the greatest Nations western civilisation has ever known.
stephen kay (13):
Read you loud and clear. Agreed 100%.
John F (16):
I too am sensitive to photographs. I feel so sorry for those children who are simply and cheerfully doing what their parents have told them to do.
They are at an age when they cannot comprehend the concept of god, let alone the realities of the LGBT persons they are unwittingly persecuting.
What a cruel thing to do to children.
Good. These hate-preachers can ply their bile somewhere else, I’m glad it won’t be in the UK though. If anyone needed any proof of just how bizarre their messed-up logic is, there’s the really good Louis Theroux documentary – “The Most Hated Family in America”.
Oh, and michael savage is a complete idiot who has publicly stated that he thinks rape is OK. He thinks people respect him because they are talking about how abhorrent his views are, what arrogance.
By their previous words and deeds (outwith the UK), they have already commited “behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace” whilst in the UK; remember that that also includes “actions” likly to cause others to breach the peace… i.e. provocation.
To John F: These poor children have not been told to hate, they are being indoctrinated/brainwashed to hate.
@ chamdas – don’t worry, with views such as those you’ve expressed in this thread, I’m sure you won’t be missed in the UK. In fact, you’re welcome not to visit at all, really.
Yep..that photo of the 3 babies says it all for me too; they should not be knowing anything about anything at that age.
What a disgrace..
Their parents want stoning…but then that wouldn’t be right either for the kids.
What a shame all round.
aah, tsuchan – ‘god hates fags’ is meaningless, because god does not exist. Though disgusting, it makes no recommendation of violence.
Phelps is right: the bible indeed says you have to hate fags, and worse. If you’re going to ban Phelps, you may as well remove all bibles or torahs from churches and synagogues, and stop them being imported into the country… I wonder whether he is actually a greater offence to religious people who treat the bible like a pick and mix candy store, than to gay people. What do you do about the massacres in Deuteronomy 18, or the anti semitism in the gospel of St John for instance? I’m atheist, so it’s not my problem.
I don’t know, they are regarded as nutters by everyone so I just don’t take these people seriously.
@Keith: The problem is that you & they have to live in the same world, and they do want you dead. You might wanna read up on how hate-speech like Phelp’s has fired violent crimes afainst gays.
I’ve only just heard of this family and now I am over the moon the idiots are not allowed in the country XD…
This is the kind of idiotic actions and views religion can cause. Religion is the most evil thing that ever exsisted. The bible itself, the most evil textbook on the planet.
Not that I have, or ever will read a bible but I think it causes so many different views and opionions that it is dangerous. It dosen’t explain itself in a clear or positive way. Quite frankly I don’t want anything to do with a so called all loving god that loves us all but ohh noo! shock horror, if your gay go… to hell!? it is sick.
Religion doesn’t allow you to be yourself, it brainwashes individuals into thinking what it wants you to think and is the biggest form of discrimination I have ever known. We all talk of world peace, this will never happen until every religious textbook in the world is burnt.
People like this are the reason I am anti-christ and anti-religious. I hate religion with a passion. I have no problem with people following a religion, I’ve always said each to their own, but when you have people like this allowing religion to put thoughts in their weak minds and completely taking over their sad little lives, that I cannot bare.
Some people say my views are bitter and full of hate, but think of the logic here… think of what religion has caused… death, wars, evil cults, rape, discrimination, pain, hate, degrading women and disowning gay people. Is this something you want to get involved with?
Truley makes mt blood boil. x
Am I to understand that you expect to teach something to Keith about violence against gays?
Which dark moon are you living on, one of Saturn’s perhaps?
You picked a formidable opponent this time, sweetie, and I for one am putting on my plastic overcoat so I won’t get all messy when the sh*t hits the fan!
@Jean-Paul et al:
we have to be careful how we limit free speech because such bans can easily be turned against us and our allies, it isn’t as though we haven’t got home-grown nuts and bigots!
An element in my thinking cries that we must exclude those who would, if they had power, exterminate us; they would use free speech to remove our rights. However, there is the argument that by bringing such bigotry into the clear light of intellectual analysis and plain common sense you can show it up as the stupidity it is, and prevent the impressionable from being impressed. That is why we need proper education to show that LGBT.. people ARE normal and fully human, and differ in one part of their psyche.
These people are quite simply barmy!!!!!
Darkmoonman – Fred Phelps isn’t only guilty of inciting violence against gays. I recently read an account by his own estranged son Nate Phelps about the kind of regular thrashings he dealt out to his own wife and kids. There’s a link to it on Richard Dawkin’s site. I tried to post it here but it hasn’t got through yet.
It makes for some pretty distubing reading and made me wonder why he hasn’t spent time behind bars. The man’s a rageaholic. Surely even ex-lawyers like Fred Phelps aren’t completely above the law?
(I like that ‘nom-de-plume, b/t/w!!…sort of romantic yet menacing…however I digress.)
At the risk of repeating myself, sorry peepls(!)… I was told by a priest, almost 50 years ago, to go and get electric shock treatment for the (my) grave ‘sickness’ of homosexuality.
You say that the likes of FRED PHELPS want me dead…
Of this I have no doubt; you are correct in what you say.
But it is nothing new; as I said, I had it (offence against the person) 50 years ago.
I was utterly enthralled with the practice of my Roman Catholicism as a kid of 19/20 at that time…so much so, that I wanted to be a priest myself and was in training for that.
Then the electric shock therapy was suggested.
I sat and pondered it at the back of the church during mass the next day.
But I said ‘NO’.
I got up and walked out of the church (the building) right away and have never been in a church since that day.
But walking out on the Church, the religion, was an altogether different matter. It is not much different to walking out on a partner, the inner hurt that that caused me.
I now shudder to think what might have befallen me if I had gone to the ‘electric doctor’ and submitted to that therapy.
Is not that therapy, ‘violence’..?
Was not the very suggestion by the priest that I seek it, violence in the first place..?
No doubt PHELPS wants me dead.
Who’s to say that had I taken up that treatment he (PHELPS) would not have got his wish, 50 years ago..?
I neither drink nor smoke and never have.
But who’s to say what the shock therapy might have done to me..?
Driven me to drink…?
Smoked myself to death..?
I chose ‘NO’.
And I am glad I did.
Someone on these pages some weeks ago (I cannot remember where, sorry, but he must be a collapsed kafflick like me..) said that ‘the abandonment of the religion leaves a huge void in your core. But you DO get over it, to some extent’.
How right that is.
I am over it.
But by all that’s…!!!
It has left me so fudging violent against these twots…and I am glad of these pages to sound off.
I want to go to mass again and sit and listen to today’s priests’ sermons.
But by the ‘eck…if I heard ONE derogatory, patronising syllable, about homosexuality, I’d be up on me pins and shout ‘NO..! with all the pent up fury of 50 years.
The scran in Strangeways is not that bad, I’m told..?
Anyone know any diffrunt…?
The silly words I use like ‘fudging’ and ‘twot’ and ‘King Canutes’ are based loosely on the words I REALLY want to employ but from which I refrain on account of any ladies present (real ones, that is) and also upon my ignorance of the censorship policies of this site.
So although I am an old fart (can we use that word? yeah…why not…)…er …I have not lost it yet completely.
They should be allowed in Britain what a great drive against cigarettes smokers. Is Britain scared they might overthrow the Government? Isn’t it a bit over reacting for a country who doesn’t even have Same sex marriage legalized?
Mihangel ap Yrs (27)
Thanks for the reality check. You’re right, free speech is an extremely delicate balancing act. We have a similar problem in Canada whenever the RCC sticks its nose in govenment policies on same-sex marriages, abortion, assisted suicides, stem cell research…etc.
Getting back to Phelps, however, I don’t know how aware you are that a surprising number of Americans are gun-toting, respectful-looking energumens, e.g. the man who shot Harvey Milk.
Always a pleasure to read your posts.
I have a feeling the Phelps clan will also be banned from heaven someday as well. God Hates Bigots. They killed his only son. I know how I would feel if someone did that to my child! *said in my best tongue-in-cheek voice*
Adrian… interesting perspective. Atheist to atheist then… (^_^) The hate and vitriol are a purely optional part of his religion. Some of the bible writers speak against homosexuality, but Old Uncle Tom Cobbley and All are included in the condemnation… look…
“Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Phelps doesn’t preach hate against drunks and gluttons. He is dedicated to promoting hate of gay and lesbian people, just as much as others on the banned list are dedicated to spreading other kinds of hate.
The thing is, countless people are refused visas from the UK each year for no valid reason at all. Why would we want any of these creatures in the country while decent people are being refused?
AHHHHH THERE IS A GOD AFTER ALL!
They banned the WBC from the country for being anti-gay, yet do not ban Muslims, many of whom are also openly anti-gay? They don’t ban Muslims, who have also been known to ‘picket’ soldiers’ funerals and their returns from war?
I have nothing against either groups of people, but this is hypocrisy at its highest. How can our government justify banning a group of individuals who spout ‘hate-speech’, yet allow another that do the same to openly enter our country and cross our borders every day?
I am not anti-Muslim at all, so don’t get me wrong, but I think it’s disgusting and hypocritical.
Interesting… I wouldn’t have thought the government cared about the lives of zealots… I say drop the lot of them into Edinburgh, then let the people of the UK explain the difference between the opinion of the WBC and the opinion of the rest of the planet.