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Scottish ministers threaten to quit over ordination of gay man

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  1. Let them resign and ensure that there is no pension provision for them!

  2. Dave North 27 Apr 2009, 5:27pm

    Toodles. Au Revoir. Good Riddance.

    A few less neanderthal bigots to deal with.


  3. Isn’t it wonderful how they ‘disagree with his lifestyle’ … how the hell do they know what his actual lifestyle is, are they creeping round in the middle of the night peeping through chinks in the curtains?
    I’m sick and tired of the religious bigots basing their judgements on what they SUPPOSE is going on. I wonder how many of them could bear to have their private lives scrutinised in such a way … how many bullies and wife-beaters, maybe some child-abusers, would be found out?????

  4. There are a lot more than 50 ministers in the Kirk! Who chose the sample? Was it a self-selecting group?

    In any case, most of it’s just bluster and horse manure! Many of these clergy would be completely unemployable in any other role, and will hang on like grim death to their manses and their stipends!

    Scott Rennies’ situation, however is somewhat complicated by the fact that he has been married and has a young daughter by his wife.

  5. “However, 12 members of the Aberdeen Presbytery objected to the decision because they do not approve of his lifestyle.”

    Shouldn’t “lifestyle” be in quotes, or are we now handing our opressors a victory by sub-consciously using their language?

  6. I was one of the ones they polled. They said that it was being conducted anonymously, but that we were free to make comments and be on the record if we wished. I did – but they obviously didn’t like what I had to say! Which was, basically, that I would be appalled if the clear decision of a progressive, enlightened, open and loving congregation, backed by a huge majority at the local Presbytery, were overturned because of a power-play by an organized group, with a clear agenda, who are beginning with gay Christians because of their vulnerability. I also said that I believed that there was an organized attempt, which I deplored, to stampede people whose views and understanding of the Bible were only conservative because they’d never had the opportunity to have these views challenged and modified. I further said that they were welcome to quote me quite openly. Didn’t seem to be what they wanted to hear. Certainly everyone they DID quote was diametrically opposed to where I was coming from. I was Shocked, Appalled, and Disgusted! (I think that’s what you’re supposed to be if you write to the right-wing press, isn’t it…?) ;)

  7. BTW – accepting bad and infantile readings of Scripture is also a lifestyle decision! ;) JUST SAY NO!!! :D

  8. @ O Jones. Thank you for sticking up for this person. Its good to hear there are some christians who live their life according to love, not hate. I’m sure the minister-to-be in question much appreciates the support.

    As you allude to, I think its disgusting whenever there is an organised attempt, by any group for any reason, to oust someone who does not deserve it. The congregation of the church here in Aberdeen voted overwhelmingly for the minister, and it is they who will be preached to by this chap, therefore I think its disgusting that these other ministers are trying to say to the congregation “no, you can’t have him”. It also smacks of arrogance, that these other ministers (by which I mean of course only the ministers that have voted against his appointment) that they think they know what the congregation needs better than the people do themselves.

  9. Karl Rosenqvist 28 Apr 2009, 12:36pm

    Here in Sweden (for so I always start) we had a bunch of priests who disliked women clergymen so much that they left. As we all said back then I say now ;
    -Can I help you pack? Don’t let the door hit you on your way out. Good riddance .. now break out the champagne!
    Last time I heard they’d left for africa.

  10. Why have ministers at all.

    After all, why should anyone wish to hear “someone elses” or indeed, “someone elses” religous organisations one sided, agenda riddened, interpretation of a religious book.

    Are religous people so shallow, that they must be preached to at every circumstance. Its no wonder these types tend to be bigots if they are incapable of formulating their own opinion on the subject and rely on their religious organisations view only.

  11. Well, thanks for that, Dave North. I can’t say I expected to be discriminated against in such an ignorant way here, of all places. There are many definitions of religion, but one might be “faith worked out in community”. Communities have structures, traditions, and shared memory, and they evolve over time, especially in the tumultuous conditions of (post)modernity. They tend to have people who are schooled in these traditions and in this corporate memory, who may very well be bigoted, narrow-minded and terrified of the real world – but can (I modestly submit!) be creative, sensitive and liberating in their agendas and effects. The Christian tradition centres on the person of Jesus Christ – no, that’s not obvious, we’re all taking stick at the moment from people who believe it centres in a totally unworkable way on the Bible as an infallible book – and the ultimacy of Jesus Christ for us means that we believe that God, too, is self-sacrificing, self-giving love, and that lives lived in a way that reflect that are lives lived in touch with all that is deepest in Creation. One of the things we have to do is to balance a complicated and many-sided tradition, deeply indebted to Judaism and the Old Testament, in such a way that we can live loving lives in the world. We do that in community, and ministers are (supposed to be) educated in such a way that they enable each Christian community to reflect the presence and love of Jesus Christ in its midst. I’m as aware as you how often this aim crashes and burns, but please don’t go telling me that I am some sort of demagogue telling my sheep-like people what to think. I’ve gone some way to putting myself on the line in the name of respecting others, and I really wouldn’t say no to a bit of it myself.

  12. Sorry – that was a bit harsher than I wanted to be. I know – God knows I know – that many people round here will have been hurt and traumatized by their experiences of institutional religion, and I hate that that is so. But some of us really are working for something utterly different, that we think is the heart of our religion, and which means everything to us. Don’t lump us all together without hearing us first, eh?

  13. Brian Burton 5 May 2009, 6:06pm

    Ay! without love, life is no better than the unhewn stone, which in the quarry lies. Before the sculpter has set the God within it. Without love, life is as silent as the common reeds that through the marshes or by the rivers grow and have no music in them.
    I do’nt think O.Jones lacks Love, you are streets ahead of those Church Gay protesters.

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