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Activists to protest at ‘gay cure’ conference

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  1. Simon Murphy 24 Apr 2009, 11:14am

    I advise people to bring whistles if they can. Make so much noise that the lunatic bigots involved in this conference cannot hear what they are saying.

  2. The Facebook group is only the tip of the iceberg. there are several other organisations who have picked up on the protest and are promoting it, The LGBTQQI section of the Green Party, the Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association, the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, the Queer Youth Network and the Gay Activists Alliance, among other are involved. Even Stonewall seem to be on the case.

  3. Just to wish all who attend this protest a big “Good Luck”! I wish I could be there, but frankly can’t afford the travel cost or the time this weekend. Still, will be thinking of you all. Stay safe.

  4. Complain now 24 Apr 2009, 12:10pm

    I spent 15 minutes on Radio Wiltshire denouncing this religous nut. Good session and the station seems to be repeating my best quotes on the hourly news.

    Every little Helps!

  5. david skinner 24 Apr 2009, 12:32pm

    I am sending a second message of encouragement to all of you who will be demonstrating outside the Emanuel Centre, Marsham St., today and tomorrow.
    In all ‘probability‘, to use one of Richard Dawkin’s words, the Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, Peter Mandeleson, Chris Bryant, Chris Smith , Ben Bradshaw, the Eagle Twins, Harriet Harmen, Angela Mason , Boris Johnson, Ben Summerskill….. and many others, would, I am sure, have been happy to have been there with you. But as my grandmother used to say, “ What’s the point of having dogs and doing your own barking?”

    There are others who, but for obvious reasons, in all probability, would have been there such as Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, Gerhard Rossbach, Ernst Roehm, Rudolph Hess, Gilles de Rais, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Javed Iqbal Mughal, John Haig, Nicolas Panard, Thomas Watt Hamilton, Damian Oldfield, William Beggs, Joshua Macave Brown, David Don Carpenter, Boy George, Charlie Davies, Terrance Higgins, Garry Frisch and Kevin Greening.

    Make sure you get your creative department to knock up plenty of banners saying “Jesus is a Fag, ” …“bigoted arseholes…” ……..So piss off with your healing and your “spiritual healing”.”……….“Really, mind your own F**king business who I sleep with and how. It is not your concern.” Really show the contribution(s) that the LGBTs can offer to the enrichment of the English language.

    And please, please, urge Ian McKellen, no less, to come along and lead a rousing audience participation of that literary masterpiece, “The Love that Dares to Speak its Name” by James Kirkup. Everyone ought to know it off by heart by now.
    That really should go down well, especially with the parents and pupils to whom he recently spoke at St. George’s School, Harpenden, but to whom he failed to give a rendering. But he has his opportunity now, to reveal the majestic breadth off its Christianophobia, hatred, bigotry, militancy, filth, obscenity, blasphemy, pornography, self deception, delusion, distraction and destruction. Something, which I sadly have to say again, has been lacking on this site of late.

    What we definitely don’t want is the slightest doubt, any pale shades of pink, or any of Dawkin’s wishy washy ‘probability‘. Do we? We need pride, gay pride, boldness- courage even – and the absolute, objective certainty that the true face of homosexuality will be displayed for all to see today Maybe you would like me to come along and show how to do it, or do I have to do everything myself?

    Best wishes

  6. Good luck, wish I could come. I wish you all a peaceful protest – you are heroes!

  7. Good luck to all who protest. Can’t the police be asked to stop this conference? Surely there is a veryhigh risk that they will be doing something illegal. We know for a fact that gay ‘cure’ therapies actually do damage people, so surely people encouraging others to carry it out is incitement to assault or something similar. I hope the police will be in there filming.

  8. David Skinner – If you want to pretend to be gay out of some misplaced martyrdom complex, it’s your choice. I still say you’re projecting with the best of them when you call us all bigots. Out of interest (as if I couldn’t guess where you’re coming from) where does the destruction figure in your run-down of gay ills?

  9. Tony, my understanding is that the police can’t do anything about the conference because it is a private event in a private venue. If they came out to talk to us protesters however, this could become a different kettle of fish…

  10. Brian Burton 24 Apr 2009, 1:14pm

    Some while ago, my Partner and I entertained five of our closest friends to tea at the Ritz in London. We had a wonderful time and left the Ritz feeling equally wonderful. Three days later, 58 of our fellow citizens were murdered as they went about their daily lives. The London bombings–absolutley mind-less. Have a good protest all and please do not invite the ‘therapy can cure’ creatures to tea at the Ritz!

  11. Brian Burton 24 Apr 2009, 1:23pm

    What a grubby, pathetic little life David Skinner must lead. Skinner is more to be pitied than blamed–the poor deluded queen!

  12. Well done and thank you to all those who are going!!

    I think the venue should be bombarded with objections for hosting this vile ‘convention’.

  13. Anybody hear Nicolosi on Radio 4 this morning? We got the usual discredited Freudian nonsense, and he was very careful to talk only about people coming to him who ‘wanted to change’. He carefully avoided all mention of what he thought of those who don’t want to change, and, much more to the point, why anyone SHOULD, regardless of the red herring of whether they can or not. Even more to the point, neither the interviewer nor(even more shocking) a participant from Lesbian and Gay Christian challenged him on that vital point. It’s the same old story – these characters are constantly given too easy a ride in public interviews.

  14. david skinner 24 Apr 2009, 2:00pm

    I sense that this demonstration is going to be bit of a damp squib. You need to get Adolph Summerskill to whip up a bit of Nuremberg hysteria and maybe a touch of self flagellation, which all goes to remind that you are sure to have members of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement amongst the devoted. Why not get them to cry out to the gods Baal and Molech. Every little bit helps.

  15. Har Davids 24 Apr 2009, 2:04pm

    Great! First you claim homosexuality is a problem, because your holy book says it is so, making feel people bad about themselves. Then you claim to have the solution to the problem you created.

  16. Protesting is O.K., but I don’t agree with trying to prevent these cranks from being heard. Free speech is a right, even if what’s being said is a load of tosh, and since we have right on our side we don’t need to exercise censorship.

  17. William, if you want people to stop and really start thinking about things, you have to bother them, you have to make them uncomfortable, you have to inconvenience them. No progress was ever achieved without bothering those who stood in its way.

  18. David Skinner – There’s about as much evidence for the gods Baal and Molech as there is for Yahweh, your own god of choice.
    Come to that, I’ll be putting a good word in for the Flying Spaghetti monster tomorrow, as I think he’s been somewhat under represented as an up and coming religion. BTW I find your anti-Baal bigotry shocking.

  19. Keith SIMPSON 24 Apr 2009, 2:39pm

    CHEESE-US!!
    I WISH I COULD GET AS WORKED UP ABOUT HETEROSEXUALITY AS YOU ARE, DAVID SKINNER, (WORKED UP) ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY…!
    LORD-A-MOSES!!

    IF I COULD GET SO WORKED UP, SO INTERESTED…WHO KNOWS?
    I MIGHT BE ABLE TO CHANGE AND STUFF BIRDS OTHER THAN THE CHRIMBO CHICKEN.

    DAVID!
    IT DOESN’T MATTER!
    NOTHING MATTERS!

    WHY GET SO HET UP ABOUT SUMMAT (HUMAN SEXUALITY) YOU KNOW NOWT ABOUT AND COULD DO EVEN LESS ABOUT, EVEN IF YOU DID KNOW SUMMAT..?
    ‘KINELL…! ‘KINELL!! FUCKINELL!!!

    RELAX..!
    CHILL IT!!

    LEMME TAKE YOU TO THAILAND AND YOU JUST WATCH THE ANGST ALL PEEL AWAY…MAEE PEN RA’EE..IT DON’T MATTER NONE..!
    HAS ANYONE, HAVE YOU DAVID, SEEN OR HEARD THE THAI ‘LADY-BOY’ KICK-BOXING FESTIVAL IN TRAT-SOMPHONPHAN, THAILAND…IT IS A RIOT, LITERALLY!
    THE LADY-BOYS ALL DRESSED UP AS SEDUCTIVELY AS ANY CATWALK MODEL, STRUT THEIR STUFF IN WHAT PURPORTS TO BE A FASHION SHOW, BEAUTIFUL DRESSES, SUPERB MAKE-UP, STILLETTOS, GORGEOUS AS GIRLS, THEY ARE!!.

    THEN, A SMALL, BUT STAGED ‘ARGUMENT’ WILL TAKE PLACE BETWEEN TWO OF THE ‘GIRLS’ AND ONE ‘GIRL’ WILL KNOCK/PUSH/SHOVE THE OTHER AND MAYBE PULL ‘HER’ WIG OFF; HIT ‘HER’ WITH ‘HER’ HANDBAG, A LA THATCHER.
    ANOTHER ‘GIRL’ FRIEND WILL INTERVENE AND REMONSTRATE WITH THE ONE WHO IS PERCEIVED TO HAVE STARTED THE ROW AND THEN TWO OTHERS WILL JOIN IN AND THEN 8 AND THEN 40 AND THEN 190 OF THESE ‘GIRLS’ AND IN AN INSTANT, THERE IS MAYHEM..WIGS …DRESSES…SHOES… ALL OFF AND LYING ON THE STADIUM FLOOR.
    OFF THEY COME THE WIGS, THE DRESSES, THE STILLETTOS, THE LOT AND THEY (THE ‘GIRLS’) ARE TRANSFORMED INTO LEAN, TONED, MUSCULAR YOUNG LADS, IN THEIR CRIMSON, MUAY-THAI BOXING SHORTS, BARE, KICKING, FLAILING FEET AND SIDE-SWIPING, THAI KNEES AND THIGHS.
    BUT THEY WERE GIRLS…?
    “YEAH !” – COMES THE REPLY- “AND NOW THEY ARE BOYS! AND WHAT YOU GOIN’ TO DO ABOUT IT, MISTER FAT, WHITE, ENGLISH FALANG (FOREIGNER) WITH YOUR SILLY NOTIONS ABOUT SEX?
    SURE IT WAS A GIRL…NOW IT’S A BOY AND IF YOU LOOK ASKANCE AT THIS BOY, THE WAY YOU LOOKED AT HIM 2 MINUTES AGO WHEN HE WAS A GIRL WITH DISDAIN AND CONTEMPT…HE WILL PUT YOU IN HOSPITAL ON LIFE SUPPORT WITH ONE BLOW…”

    IT JUST SHOWS THE FUTILITY OF PIGEON-HOLING HUMAN SEXUALITY, AS WE DO HERE IN THE WEST, INTO BLACK/WHITE/NOTHING ELSE…HETERO/HOMO, THAT’S YER LOT.
    RUBBISH!
    DO YOU HEAR THAT, DOCTOR NARCOLEPSI….OR WHATEVER YOUR NAME IS..?

    CHILL DAVID, CHILL!!
    NOBODY WILL THINK ANY THE LESS OF YOU FOR ADMITTING TO YOURSELF WHAT YOU KNOW TO BE IN YOURSELF.
    I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY STRAIGHT MEN IN JUST THE SAME KERFUFFLE IN THEIR LIKKLE HEADS, JUST LIKE YOU…MOST OF ‘EM MARRIED…MOST WITH KIDS AND ALL ASHAMED OF WHAT THEY PERCEIVE TO BE A ‘SIN’ OR AN ABNORMALITY WITHIN THEMSELVES….ACCORDING TO WHAT THIS RELIGION HAS TAUGHT THEM OR THAT BUNCH OF LOO-LOOS SPOUTS..
    I HAVE/HAD A ‘STRAIGHT’ FRIEND WHO HOUNDED ANOTHER MAN FOR YEARS ALL ROUND P*** IN THE NORTH HERE.
    MY ‘STRAIGHT’ FRIEND WAS MARRIED, HAD A DAUGHTER AND THE ONE HE HOUNDED WAS AS CAMP AS A ROW OF TENTS, VERY Q.CRISP; AND ALL THIS, WHEN IT(HOMOSEXUALITY) WAS ILLEGAL IN THE 50′s AND 60′s.
    THAT FRIEND OF MINE SLOWLY ‘CAME OUT’ TO HIS FAMILY – WHEN THE LEGISLATION WAS REPEALED – AND WENT OFF WITH A LAD YOUNG ENOUGH TO BE HIS GRANDSON.
    THAT WAS 30 YEARS AGO.
    THEY ARE STILL AN ITEM.

    KEITH.
    SALFORD.

  20. Brian Burton 24 Apr 2009, 2:41pm

    David Skinner, you are the prophets of BAAL and you and I know what happened to them–do’nt we sunshine?

  21. Vincent Poffley 24 Apr 2009, 2:50pm

    Dear Mr. Skinner,

    I am so glad that spewing bile and trading in ill-crafted sarcasm on the internet make you happy. You must be such a witty man in person, not to mention charming, generous, well-balanced and universally liked. A true and shining example of human virtue indeed. Why, before you came along I had some crazy notion that the rabid christian hordes of the internet were a bunch of vicious, spiteful, ill-educated blackguards whose odious immorality was matched only by their egregious stupidity.

    I thank you warmly for alerting me as to the true state of affairs.

  22. david skinner 24 Apr 2009, 2:57pm

    William who said anything about censorship? You will get a right kicking for having let the cat of the bag. Don’t you realise that oppression and fear of speaking up are your leader, Ben Summerskill’s best weapons. Don’t you realise that on Monday, in the House of Lords, Lord Chris Smith of HIV and Islington fame, chief of the ministry of censorship, now called the Advertising Standards Agency, will coerce the assembled peers to vote away, not only our freedom of speech, but freedom of conscience? Yours and mine.

    And I am afraid that you are on even shakier ground when you start talking about “right” being on your side. Don’t you realise? Have you not heard that Ben Summerskill has banned moral absolutes? You must never, ever, on pain of public humiliation, loss of job, physical violence and the threat of a seven year prison sentence say that one thing is wrong and another thing is right because this discriminates against adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, polygamists paedophiles and zoos and those love a bit of incest.

    Better stick to homosexual “rights,” William and the right to trump everybody else’s rights, especially those who will be meeting in the Emmanuel Centre, who just wish to have the right to choose for themselves. What was that about the sin of Sodom being inhospitality? Maybe that’s no longer a sin, either.

  23. David Skinner – I think you can look closer to home if you want an example of bigots trying to restrict the rights of others on pain of a good thrashing.
    Thankyou for showing us that HIV is god’s righteous judgement on the degenerate hoardes, you’re really winning me round. How is the pope these days?
    Isn’t it time for your meds yet.

  24. Let’s not encourage him. What he doesn’t realise is that he is in a very small minority – everyone else has grown up.

  25. Lol @ david skinner. Go away you little internet troll.

  26. Brian Burton 24 Apr 2009, 3:50pm

    I’m sorry everybody, but this David Skinner sends me into raptures. I’ve fallen madley in love with him and I want to have rampant sex with him. Darling, darling David Skinner, when we become as one (you’ll have to change your name from Skinner to ‘Conan The Destroyer’ or something modest like that) we shall take a trip to ‘Paradise’ for it’s not lost. Wear those tiny, pink pantie-hoes you love so well. I shall make you ‘Queen Of The May.’

  27. david skinner 24 Apr 2009, 3:57pm

    Quite so Charlene. Maybe I should be appealing to the Minority Support Police, or is it only the homosexual legions who have the right to this. As for a small minority; why was it that out of nearly 12000 athletes, competing at last year’s Bejiing Olympic games this small minority as you call it equalled 11,990 as opposed to eight lesbians and two homosexuals? Some minority, Charlene.

    Finally what right have any of you to say how anyone ought to self – identify.? What happened to personal preference.? What interest is it of any of you if I want to identify as a welsh dresser, cuckoo clock or poached egg ?. Also why were the Transgenders shut out of lovely Ben Summerskill’s bash , last November, at the Victoria & Albert Museum? Was it because this threatened his theory of immutability and innate nature.? Will Christine Burns be turning at the Demo, demanding to have her sex change recognised by Ben?

    Well as they say in Italia Basta basta.

  28. Ann Onymouse 24 Apr 2009, 4:00pm

    How about a real psychology conference on how people become fundamentalists, and how to cure it?

  29. david skinner 24 Apr 2009, 4:04pm

    Brian, you cheeky blighter, I was just waiting for someone to ask me that.Let’s go.

  30. In the past both the right and left of politics would caricature each other as homosexual therefore deviants to discredit each other,this happenned in nazi Germany.
    It is interesting too see how the religous bigots are labelling gays as mentally Ill and the gays are labelling their bigotry as insanity and using disparaging names and remarks used to abuse the mentally Ill.If homophobia is a mental illness then the majority of the world must be afflicted.
    Mental Ilness is usually characterised by a loss of much functioning and both gays and their critics could not be labelled mentally Ill.
    So before stigmatizing the genuinely mentally sick with your bigoted hate speech share a thought for the usually no more homophobic than any other sector of society mentally ill people.
    If people cannot see past this type of prejudice then their call for tolerance and acceptance for glbtq people seems not only hypocritical but undeserved.

  31. Simon Murphy 24 Apr 2009, 4:12pm

    David Skinner – you claim to be a christian.

    Do you accept the bible as the word of ‘god’?

    If so then please confirm that you believe it is OK for a man to rape his wife; to own slaves and to stone his wife to death for adultery. Do you accept that ‘god’ made the right decision to perform genocide on the 1st born children of the Egyptians by murdering them for the crime of being Egyptian?

    If not then do you accept that you are not in fact a true christian at all?

    The evil, shamed cult of christianity says that the bible is the word of the all-powerful ‘god’

    What a hideous, evil genocidal, twisted maniac the christian ‘god’ is.

  32. @ David Skinner – the ‘minority’ I was referring to was your negative views on LGBT people – obviously.

  33. Simon Murphy 24 Apr 2009, 4:15pm

    I will not be carrying a ‘Jesus was a fag sign’

    David Skinner may worship and believe in ‘god’. I do not worship ‘god’. I worship Cher and therefore “I BELIEEEEEEEEEVE in life after love. I can hear something insiiiiiiiiide me say (David Skinner’s cock perchance) I really don’t think you’re strong enough”

  34. Brian Burton 24 Apr 2009, 4:25pm

    David Skinner, you read my ‘love call’ you lovely prophet of your own doom. ‘Cassandra’ now there’s a name for you my sweet. The leader of your pack, is he Iti’ They used to throw down their rifles and run for it when they saw a Tommy–all cowards Iti’s.

  35. “I can hear something insiiiiiiiiide me say (David Skinner’s cock perchance)” – OMG can it talk? On second thoughts it’s probably doing the typing!

  36. I think the definition of a delusion is a false belief which is not shared by others of the persons cultural background. While mainstream religion does not fall technically into this category it is still faith based, which a belief with no evidence is usually irrational.This type of thinking is bizarre and should not be given any credibility by society.As a person with a serious mental illness i claimed to be jesus christ i would be justifiably treated for delusions.Why then when people quote creation myths as “gods word” they are treated as rational human beings.
    The same christain fundamentalist belief is eerily similar to faith in Fuhrer and nazism.How can seemingly sane people hold such bizarre beliefs in such great numbers and are taken seriously. Maybe many people want to believe or they have the reasoning of a rabbit.

  37. Complain now 24 Apr 2009, 5:55pm

    test

  38. ‘Change you can’t believe in’ should have been the title of this crazy outing.

    I passed the Emmanuel Centre earlier today – 4 mean looking bodyguards on the door and a policeman…. a bit of an over reaction, surely!

    Don’t assume everyone in that building is evil, and foaming at the mouth: some attending are genuinely lost, insecure souls. Be dignified – show contempt for this event, without taking inspiration from fred phelps.

  39. David Skinner,

    As far as I’m concerned, this isn’t about anyone’s right to choose. If people want to change from heterosexual to homosexual, then they have a perfect right to do so. The question is not whether they have the right but whether they can. If they can’t, then their right to choose, however unquestionable in theory, is in practice quite meaningless.

    I believe that there are people whose sexual orientation has changed in this way, but they are extremely rare – men particularly – and there is no means of making this change happen. To advise someone to put his life on hold until his orientation changes is as irresponsible as advising someone to put his life on hold until he wins the National Lottery. (Winning the National Lottery would be a lot more useful, of course.)

    People have a right to know that those who offer them “reparative therapy” (for something that doesn’t need repairing anyway) are no more worthy of credence than those guys who used to come up to you in Tottenham Court Road offering you “a free personality test”.

    In the same way, if a friend tells me that he wants to use his life savings to go to Brazil or the Philippines for “psychic surgery”, he’s perfectly entitled to do so. But I certainly won’t encourage him, and I’m not infringing his rights by telling him that “psychic surgery” is a fraud and that he’ll be wasting money that he can probably ill afford.

  40. Sorry, that was a slip of the pen (or the keyboard); in my first paragraph I meant “homosexual to heterosexual”, but the principle holds good either way.

  41. AMPisAnglican 24 Apr 2009, 7:45pm

    Hello Simon Murphy (31)

    A few items you mention need to be corrected.

    If you had read The Holy Bible, all of it including the Teachings of Jesus Christ, you would understand that a true Christian man would never rape his wife. There is a passage in the Old Testament that does say a wife should submit herself to her husband. This however clearly does not give the husband a right to demand sex. It is still the wife’s choice.

    Also, that although the Bible mentions the fact that slavery existed, it does not specifically state that slavery was ever ok. You would also know that although certain things (such as adultery and prostitution) are in the Old Testament capital offences, Jesus teaches us that we should not be the ones to through the first stone. It will be the One who is without sin that may (or may not) do that.

    Furthermore, it was not God that brought the Angel of Death to the Egyptians. Moses warned Pharaoh that whatever Pharaoh proclaimed to happen, would happen to Pharaoh’s own people. A “what you reap, so shall you sow” scenario. So it was by the order of Pharaoh, not God, that Egypt’s first born males died.

  42. Hey david skinner

    Before you explode with excitement.

    I know you admire Steve chalke

    O dear . . . what is he going to make of your blogs on here.

    Strange how the Angels of Sodom are getting closer . . . O dear

    We love you because you are christian we just hate the way you “practice” your christianity

    you see . . . It’s a life style choice you can be cured of

    Some of my best friends are christians . . . but . . . I would not want then any where near children

    God bless you . . . Praise the Lord . . . lets all speak in tongues

    kfunwfoenfoeingoiyrenjdkvdeij

  43. AMPisAnglican

    Its curious how you read the bible . . . but do not seem to consult other books as well . . . do you live on an island

  44. “David Skinner” could actually be one of these gay men who has put all his will-power into trying to be straight 24/7 . . . but the fact that he’s so anti suggests that he’s having a tough time keeping ahead.

    Any sorted straight man wouldn’t have spent hours and hours this week chatting on the internet with gay men. No, any sound straight man would be with his woman, maybe his family, or down the pub with his straight mates.

    But not “David Skinner” he’s at home with homos . . . but at the same time he HATES it. But he doesn’t have anybody else.

    It’s sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pathetic.

  45. Geoff . . . Bravo

    O dear . . . what are we going to do with all these homo hating homos

  46. AMPisAnglican 24 Apr 2009, 10:00pm

    Hello John K (43)

    You should have noticed that I was responding to comments made by Simon Murphy in posting 31. If you look at that posting, you will see that his comments were specifically about my Faith. Thus it is only appropriate that my response also be about my Faith.

    Perhaps you are not familiar with the Anglican Denomination. We Anglicans have had since the late 1500’s and to this day the 39 Articles of Religion. Article VI is quite specific:

    VI. Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation.
    Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical Books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church. (Continues on to name the Canonical Books).

    It is a double edged sword. Everything in the Holy Bible is necessary, and if it not in the Holy Bible it does not count. Therefore, for Anglicans such as me, the only thing that will be considered when determining our religious beliefs is the Holy Bible. This is not living on an island. For living a Christian life very much involves interacting in this world. It means being a living example to the world of how living a Righteous and sober life is living life at its best.

  47. “It is a double edged sword. Everything in the Holy Bible is necessary, and if it not in the Holy Bible it does not count. Therefore, for Anglicans such as me, the only thing that will be considered when determining our religious beliefs is the Holy Bible.”

    When will you be sacrificing a goat for me?

    Kind regards
    John K

  48. BY THE WAY, I just came back home from this conference and have to say that is was pretty impressive. The speakers were great. Every single word they said was true! I have to admit it.

  49. Alexander

    “Every single word they said was true! I have to admit it.”

    Tell me more . . .

  50. Every single word they said about homosexuality was true! I have to admit it.

  51. Alexander

    What did they say about homosexuality . . . since I was not at the conference.

    Kind regards

    John K

  52. Isn’t this thread supposed to be about a group of bigots who want to help those who have ‘unwanted same-sex attraction’, whatever that is? The only time I’ve ever heard a gay complain about his same-sex attraction was when he couldn’t get enough action!

    Simon Murphy: Great idea, whistle blowing is perfectly legal and effective.

    Why has Dave Skinner not been hospitalized yet? I love your repartee, but why give him the satisfaction of answering him. IGNORE HIM!

    Brien: More, more, more! Cassandra!… you’re crazy, but ah loves ya.

    I wonder if John Cleese could turn all of this into an hilarious black comedy, like only the British could do.

    Onward Homo Soldiers!

  53. How about setting up shop next to this conference to “help” the poor miserable heterosexuals realise they’ve been living a lie and to “help” them come to terms with their true homosexual feelings. We could invite psychologists, counsellors etc etc…oh, David Skinner, you could be the first client! After all, you clearly love hanging around gay websites an awful lot, I think you must REALLY love us (nod nod wink wink, Hampstead heath, midnight).

  54. Right on Jean-Paul

    Onward homo soldiers . . . with the cross of Jesus . . . because we know the truth of what it is to be crucified daily . . .

    •In the conversation that assumes every one is straight.
    •In the conversation that assumes you partner is a women if you are man and a man if you are a women
    •In the conversation that assumes you are a child molester if you are gay
    •In the conversation that argues about how man gays and lesbians there really are, and so tries to exterminate you by numbers
    •In the conversation that tells you that your love is a pretence
    •In the conversation that tells you cannot raise children
    •In the conversation . . .
    •In the conversation . . .
    •In the conversation . . .

    And they think they can discriminate in the name of Jesus.
    And they think they can hate us in the name of Jesus
    And they think they can exterminate us in the name of Jesus

    . . . How perverse is that

    Jesus who mixed with beggars, liars, prostitutes, leapers and made them his friends. . . and above all preached love

    Who is this Jesus they are referring to . . . not the Jesus of LOVE

    Their Jesus is a Fucking Nazis

  55. George . . . great idea . . . but we would be over run with them like rats – could we build a shop big enough

  56. Good to see gay people taking some direct action for a change.

  57. JohnK:
    What an incredible thread. Five out of five stars for you for 72, 73 & 80

  58. JohnK:
    I meant 42, 43, 47 & 54. Beam me up, Scottie!

  59. The real simple question is what will cure religious hatred in the name of God?

    I’d vote that, much too late God will. By dropping the haters into the hole of fire. For believing in religious leaders spilling out religious based hatred – an prime example of mentally illness. Churches operate like a protected religious shadow government, parts of whose strategy comes directly out of the chapter of Mein Kampf, where hitler tells how he intends to gain total power.

    Which the churches had, but are, thanks be to God, losing in most of the world. Greed for power, religious hatred and denigration of minorities with blatant lies are NOT what Jesus talked about during His Life on Earth.

    And in the USA all the mainstream medical, Psych related, and the America Pediatric association all say that being gay is built in, born with, just as for the majority being hetero is built in..

    What these “curers” really are afraid of is that as people come out of the closet they were terrorized into, the world will realize that probably 8-even 10 % of the people are gay. And then the BS of the church and all their cures, which are being exposed over and over again here as lies and ignorance, will be recognized.

    And the churches will wither and even die. How lucky the Europeans are that this is happening en mass, with only 10-15% of the people going regularly to church, vs the majority of people here – especially the ones who belong to the backwards looking, gay hating Catholic and ex-slaver based Baptist churches.

  60. Good idea- must be peaceful though, they always look best!

  61. The problem we have is simple – a rampant mental illness, born of religious hatred, of which the gays are the victims. But of course the bible thumpers like skinner get their rocks off by spouting their hatreds and ignorance. How about a cure for David Skinner and his kind.

    Or is his being here just showing that he is a homosexual, but so terrorized into the closet by the church ‘teachings’, that he actually comes out against people like him.

    In a desperate effort to hide who he is.

    He is the perfect example why if any of you go to a church that is not fully supportive of gay people and their rights under the law, you should get out now, and save your money. I did.

  62. The Nazis also had a program of “reorinetation” for homosexuals. Apart from the gas chambers, can anyone tell me what the difference is between the Nazi scum and Joseph Nicolosi and his hate-mongering followers?

  63. The dear old Church of England must be embarrassed by these nuts. I hope some authoritative mainstream voices will be heard loud and clear telling us that this is not orthodox biblical Christianity at all but some American wacky cult.

  64. Reality Check 25 Apr 2009, 8:30am

    Whatever your views are on the subject, one thing that you have not realised is how childish and supercilious you are in your comments. If that is the best you can do, it is no wonder people don’t take you seriously. Like most homosexuals, you want freedom of speech but not if people disagree with you. You would get much farther if you held rational, respectful dialogue with other people. Not conduct a a foul mouthed rant because they don’t agree with you.

    Your case is weakened as well because fo the following facts..

    For years, Michael Glatze was a prominent spokesman in the homosexual rights movement. In fact, at age 22, he became editor of Young Gay America magazine. He also has received a number of awards, including the “National Role Model Award” from the Equality Forum, an organization that promotes “gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender civil rights.”

    But in an article published today by WorldNetDaily, Glatze says he began to question his purpose and role in life two years ago –and that led him to God’s truth about homosexuality, sin, and forgiveness. “Now I know that homosexuality is lust and pornography wrapped into one,” he writes. “I’ll never let anybody try to convince me otherwise, no matter how slick their tongues or how sad their story. I have seen it. I know the truth.”

  65. Brian Burton 25 Apr 2009, 8:44am

    What a sad, sad story from Reality Check. I better skip over to my local cruzing ground for a reality check!

  66. Reality Check – As Adrian T pointed out on the other thread the road to Damascus is a two way street. Just because one deluded fool caught the religion bug and now feels awkward about himself it doesn’t compel me to follow suit.
    Gay people have as much right to their sex lives as straight people or religious people for that matter. Just because you don’t personally subscribe and can find one example of a guy who doesn’t feel comfortable in his own skin, I could site thousands of examples who went in the opposite direction, myself included.
    The convert’s corner at Richarddawkins.net is full of gay people who had just about enough of virgin priests and bishops telling them what they were doing in the privacy of their own bedrooms was wrong and they also voted with their feet.
    I just go where the evidence is, and the Bible is about the most flimsy piece of evidence going. Anyone who thinks all the answers lie in a book written by ancient peasants who still thought the earth was flat obviously doesn’t read much.

  67. I’m hundreds of miles away and can’t be there today. I hope you’re all in good voice and and have got some good chants ready. There are some good chants in one of the protest videos used against Nicolosi’s lot in Dallas. See the list on Zefrog’s blog at zefrog.blogspot.com. (It’s the 5th video on the list. But watch them all!)

    RealityCheck, so you think you have victory for religion because you’ve managed to find “a gay role-model” who weakened and started believing in spirits, ghosts, elves, imps, fairies, voo-doo, hocus-pocus, abracadraba, and watch-me-turn-this-wine-into-the-blood-of-Jesus-Christ?

    C’mon, man. THINK, you fool. THINK!

    George, brilliant idea re. a tent on the pavement outside The Emmanuel Centre. All that’s needed is some simple small erectible marquee thing with a big clear banner hung across the front of it saying something acceptable to Christians and non-Christians, like:

    “Trouble accepting your orientation?
    Professional help available. No brainwash.”

  68. Sue Peters 25 Apr 2009, 9:39am

    Hi, looking forward to seeing everyone this afternoon at the protest.

    In case you don’t know, I have just been to zefrog.blogspot.com and there is some really interesting new information there about the Conference.

    See you all later! (Umbrellas or no umbrellas.)

  69. Thanks, Sue! Have just been to zefrog.blogspot.com Someone very resourceful has managed to get hold of a copy of the Conference programme sheets. Apparently we are all “affected by SSA”! Yep, we’re all suffering from Same-Sex-Attraction!

    Doctor, doctor, help! Help! There’s an awful swine fever coming out of Mexico but I’ve got something WORSE, I’ve got, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek, “SAME SEX ATTRACTION”! Aarrrgghhhhhhhhh. I wanna die!

  70. jesus! (sorry, ahem). on one of the pages in the promotional material the Conference organizers say

    “For security reasons please do keep this information confidential. We ask that you bring with you to the conference (i) a printed copy of this letter and (ii) some form of identification (e.g. driving licence, bank card) which you will need to show at the first of two registration desks.”

    so everybody attending this conference has gone in there like a thief in the night? sheesh! they must be really really frightened and guilty about what they’re up to in there. they must be like a den of thieves — – but all patting themselves on the back and telling themselves that they’re god’s soldiers and so forth

    well if they’re so bloody frightened of us getting in, i’m looking forward to scaring them shitless when they come out!

    bring your cameras guyz and photograph every one of these silly sods. who knows who is in there absorbing all this hatred towards homos. maybe cover the back-entrance as well? there’ll probably be a get-away bus laid on for the cowards!

    hugs, Ziggs

  71. anyone know who this “Lisa Nolland, Conference Administrator” is? Her names at the bottom of the last page – looks like she’s organised the thing

  72. Good luck guys! Mucho love to all you protesters! xx

  73. Reality Check

    There is know doubt that sexuality is fluid and can change . . .

    Its curious how you skew the change in one direction only?

    If sexuality is fluid . . . .not only can you change homos into heteros . . . you can also change heteros into homos

    Curious this one way traffic

    My feeling is your fundementalism is a one way street. . .

    One way street to the gas chambers

    Be off with you

    You fucking Nazi

  74. Reality Check (what a monniker to choose) – really, why should I respect people who say ‘believe me and ruin your life based on no evidence’? I don’t respect such people, I suspect them greatly.

    Extraordinary, grandiose, arrogant claims, like intimately knowing the mind of god, or the ridiculous idea that the supposed creator of the universe, and its 70 billion trillion stars, could be remotely concerned what happens in a bedroom somewhere in London, W1, is just too ludicrous to be true. Just like the idea that man walked with dinosaurs, it deserves to be laughed at and made fun of.

    Who is stopping your freedom of speech? No one – you’re welcome to it, and so are we. Get used to it.

  75. Picking up on the excellent suggestion somewhere above, I suggest a conference titled

    “Towards Elimination of Religious Fundamentalism”.

    No doubt the bearded Muslims in their high white skirts; the Jews in their ringlets, black coats and black hats; the Born-Again Christians; and others, would all get along swimmingly in unison outside OUR conference centre?

    I think not.

    I see the newspapeer headline: “Violent clashes between Muslim, Jewish, and Christian fundamentalists outside conference on elimination of religious fundamentalism”. :-)

  76. Geoff

    Let the religious fundamentalist’s revolt . . . they are truly revolting

  77. Simon Murphy 25 Apr 2009, 3:12pm

    The bible is a badly written nonsensical load of old cliches designed to give meaning to the lives of illterate, uneducated peasants living in the desert thousands of yeara ago. Anyone who uses it as the basis by which to live their lives today is in need of help.

  78. Can anyone who attended the protest drop a quick post to let us know how it all went. I’m afraid I could only attend in spirit (so to speak…).

  79. What a victory!

    With their bouncers on the door . . . we had then quaking in their boots . . .

    Praise the Lord

  80. @ Reality Check

    Orthodox Christians should perhaps exercise a little restraint when claiming “ex-gay” scalps. At best, Michael Glatze could be described as having jumped from the frying pan into the fire – he has become a Mormon!

    Orthodox Christian apologetics site carm dot org explains succinctly what Mormons believe – and whether it is Christian:

    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons, teaches that God the father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. The preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. Furthermore, faithful Mormons, who pay a full 10% tithe of their income to the Mormon church through Mormon temples, have the potential of becoming gods of their own planets and are then able to start the procedure over again.

    Is it Christian? No.”

    They’re right, of course, it’s not remotely Christian. In their zeal to expunge one particular type of sin, Christians are forming all kinds of shady alliances with people who deny the very core of ‘the Gospel’ – Mormons, Kabbalistic Jews, Freudian Roman Catholics. And in doing so, they’ll end up with a LOT of egg on their faces…

  81. Reality Check 26 Apr 2009, 6:08am

    Your childish and immature responses to my post only confirm what I said.

    Etraordinary, grandoise, arrogant claims…

    The bible is a badly written nonsensical load of old cliches…

    Anyone who uses it as the basis by which to live their lives today is in need of help.

    One way street to the gas chambers

    RealityCheck, so you think you have victory for religion because you’ve managed to find “a gay role-model” who weakened and started believing in spirits, ghosts, elves, imps, fairies, voo-doo, hocus-pocus, abracadraba, and watch-me-turn-this-wine-into-the-blood-of-Jesus-Christ?

    Just because one deluded fool caught the religion bug….

    From this sample, you should not be surprised that people don’t take you seriously. It appeares that rational, measured speech is beyond your ability so you only have yourselves to blame if people think you are abnormal.

  82. Why don’t they invite the gay Polish elephant, Ninio and demonstrate their snake medecine really works by “curing” him? Isn’t Ninio also a Gawd-made creature? I know it’s a pride of lions but why not a pride of elephants, a proud troop? Sunday morning rambling…….sorry!

  83. Rob Fox quoted: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons, teaches that God the father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. The preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. Furthermore, faithful Mormons, who pay a full 10% tithe of their income to the Mormon church through Mormon temples, have the potential of becoming gods of their own planets and are then able to start the procedure over again.”

    Hey, Rob, thanks for the above. I have never quite known what the Mormons are about. “God the father used to be a man on another planet”! LOL.

    The above tale is laughable, only imaginative humans could have made it up. But I am aghast to think that those gorgeous, usually blonde-and-blue-eyed young boys-next-door who every so often beat a path to my frontdoor with their American accents actually swallow such clearly made-up sci-fi as reality. It’s seriously worrying that they do. And, I suppose, seriously worrying that those boys get married, have kids, and pass this garbage on to their offspring as reality. All these different religions with wild made-up nonsense are actually a form of neurosis.

  84. Second attempt – have removed URL.

    So what were you demonstrating against, exactly? Tolerance? Diversity? Freedom of choice? Not a lot of tolerance shown in some of the comments here, or from one or two of the protestors on the day, although most of it was good-humoured.

    The bouncers on the door were there for the security of the same-sex attracted people who came along to find out what the speakers had to say, and who were entitled to protection from intimidation. As the conference organiser, several leaders, some of the delegates – and even one of the speakers – came out to talk to the protestors, I hardly think they were ‘quaking in their boots’.

    For those who want to hear what was actually said, rather than what they think was going to be said, listen to the brief interview on Anglican Mainstream’s website.

    Full CDs will be available shortly of all the talks, and will be available from Anglican Mainstream.

  85. Jill is right. The attendees were normal gay/ssa/wotever people. They are not “victims” of some freaky religious cult who are waiting for brave LGBT activists to deprogram and liberate them.

    Speak to them – not at them.

  86. Jill

    We were demonstrating against your homophobia . . .

    If you cannot find any one on these discussions who will respond favourably to you views this is because we do not tolerate homophobia, heterosexism or bigotry . . .

    Is very curious isn’t it that you suggest we are the ones showing intolerance . . . if you were to read each thread closely, and the other two discussion devoted to this topic . . . if think you will find Christians inciting hatred and murder towards homosexuals in those threads

    It is very odd that you have ignored that?

    No Tolerance Jill . . . why are you not listening to the pain of homophobia
    No Diversity Jill . . . why are you not listening to the diversity of different sexual orientations
    No Freedom of choice Jill . . . your solution is to eliminate painfull feelings rather that listen to them and find a way for the person to bare their distress and learn to feel at ease with how they are

    “Unwanted homosexual feelings” . . . and the cure Affect Focused Therapy (AFT)

    When you Focusing on eliminating all affects (emotions) that relate to homosexuality . . . what is stop you eliminating actual homosexuals . . . the contempt for homosexual affects which you call tolerance, diversity and freedom of choice is very curious isn’t it.

    How strange that you do this in the name of Jesus . . . Jesus who preached compassion tolerance and acceptance.

    I am very pleased that you are producing CDs of you affect focused therapy. . . at last others will be to scrutinise something tangible . . . homophobia and heterosexism is often expressed covertly these days

    You really are a very sick, destructive and dangerous person aren’t you Jill

    The Royal college of Psychiatrist thinks you are!
    The Anglican church thinks you are! (That’s why it has distanced its self from you group)
    Most rational reasonable and loving people of this country think you are!

    It is very odd that you do not.

  87. This “Jill” person (above) seems of very similar mind to the “Corinna” who has posted on one of the other Pink News Comment thread, namely “Gay humanists denounce London Christian “gay cure” conference”.

    Corrina, wrote: “This conference is not homophobia. It’s an attempt to help people who for whatever reason are struggling with guilt and pain because of feelings that they don’t want.”

    As “Jill” appears to be of the same kind as “Corrina” I am pasting below my reply to “Corrina” in the other thread. Do study it closely and carefully, Jill.

    —————————————————

    Corrina, I am sure you try as best you can to be a good Christian. But stop and take a look at what you’ve written!

    You wrote: “It’s an attempt to help people who for whatever reason are struggling with guilt and pain because of feelings that they don’t want.”

    The above does not make ANY rational sense.

    Let me unpack it for you (as any teacher or professor in logic would, in any philosophy department anywhere in the world).

    1. Gay people have “feelings that they don’t want”.
    2. They have these feelings “for whatever reason”.
    3. These feelings cause “struggling with guilt and pain”.
    4. “Reparative Therapy” helps.

    This is what you stated, Corrina.

    However, when your statement is dissected and it is put into the above sequential order, it becomes clear there is a lot of information being left out.

    Your point “No. 2″ is VERY VERY IMPORTANT, Corrina: you cannot just swish by and get away with not going into “for whatever reason”. That is intellectually unacceptable. We cannot afford to be intellectually lazy.

    So what ARE the reasons which your statement has not acknowledged in your Point No.2?

    Corrina, the reason why some gay people have “feelings that they don’t want”, is because the attitude of unloving, unsupportive, parents and peers and certain other sections of society makes them very fearful indeed of carrying their identity with dignity. Homophobic bullies in many guises make some gay and lesbian people deeply frightened of accepting their sexual orientation. In particular, all the different voo-doo hocus-pocus made-up nonsense of the world’s many different religions are greatly responsible for making gay and lesbian people fearful of accepting their sexual orientation. And let us remember that some young gay and lesbian people are so frightened of carrying their intrinsic sexual identity with pride that they attempt suicide or succeed in committing suicide. And we must also remember that even the most well-adjusted gay or lesbian person still has to be careful in today’s world in certain places or at certain times, because of homophobia. You must have read about the regular knifings, stabbings, and beatings which gay and lesbian people are subjected to.

    Consideration of your “Point No. 2″ obviously now explains the reality of your “Point No. 3″, namely that ‘These feelings cause “struggling with guilt and pain”.’ As we have seen by carefully examining your “Point No. 2″ it is NOT the homosexual “feelings” which cause the “struggling with guilt and pain”. No, it is the information missing in “Point No. 2″ which causes the guilt and pain, namely the homophobia, the bullying, the finger-pointing, and the stigma that is generally part-and-parcel of any of the world’s many different religions.

    So now, Corrina, that we have acknowledged the reasons why some gay people have “feelings that they don’t want”, you should be able to see that the 4th part of your proposition, namely that ‘”Reparative Therapy” helps’ is a non-sequitur. To any honest thinking person it is unacceptable. (A non-sequitur is an inference or a conclusion which just does not follow from the premisses, i.e. the previous parts of the over-all statement.)

    To make this all clear, let me give you an analogy.

    What you said is like saying:

    1. Some clever maths students have feelings they don’t want.
    2. These students have these feelings “for whatever reason”.
    3. These feelings cause “struggling with guilt and pain”.
    4. Willing themselves to not like Maths & Science helps.

    And then along come some people who run a business organization that has really got it in for Maths and those highly gifted students who are so good at Maths and they set up a Conference to help these “nerdy geeks” to will themselves NOT to be so gifted at the subject. Corinna heard about this conference and blithly said: “It’s an attempt to help people who for whatever reason are struggling with guilt and pain because of feelings that they don’t want.” For her it’s as simple as that. But as we have seen, she hasn’t examined things closely at all.

    But now that Corrina has looked at things closely with regard to the plight of gay and lesbian people, she realises that she and NARTH and many religious groups need to reformulate their attitude, as follows:

    1. Some gay people are unhappy being who they are.
    2. They are unhappy because of frightening homophobia which has come at them from a number of different sources.
    3. The homophobia makes them feel guilt and pain.
    4. They need caring professional support until such time as they develop strategies to deal with all sources of homophobia and they can stand up and say, “I am what I am, and what I am needs no excuses”.

    Corinna, there are many groups, including Christian groups, who do this valuable work of reaching out and finding those vulnerable young gay and lesbian people who need some assistance in learning to combat the awful, often unthinking, homophobia that continues unabated in our society today. Why don’t you join one and see what they’re like?

    —————————————————-

  88. Yeah, NARTH (The National Association for the Research and Therapy of Homosexuality)is totally about helping people eliminate their natural homosexual inclinations whether they’re just slightly gay or completely gay. NARTH consists of evil fascist Nazi-like killers of gay pride. The agenda of NARTH is to KILL gay pride. This organization should not be allowed to exist. Imagine if there was an organization set up to eliminate pride in being a Muslim, or pride in being a black. It’s just the same. These people are totally EVIL and off us need to wake up to it. They don’t deserve any respect whatsoever. You have to hate evil people like this or they’ll grow and eventually eliminate us completely. That’s what they would like even though they hide behind saying “oh we only wanna help those who say they’re not happy being gay”. Crap! It’s bullshit, man! In Iraq and in Iran they actually kill us gays physically without thinking about it. At the end of the day NARTH is really no different in what they’re about. I’ve had good friends who are good people taken away and murdered in my country just because they were gay and failed to keep it completely hidden. The people at NARTH are just the same as Muslim fundamentalists except they have to play a softer line because they’re in the United States of America. Sad to see that the British are letting them into the UK!

  89. Take a look at narth.com

  90. Well said, Phil!

  91. Nikki Onslow 26 Apr 2009, 11:42am

    Omar I understand totally what you say — I was at the protest yesterday & today I just feel like so disrespected by these people, they so disrespect me being a lesbian. there’s no respect coming from them. I think you’re right, it’s the opposite. Being gay or lesbian is never easy in this homophobic world and this Narth lot are just trying so hard to make it even more difficult for us. Love? Caring? No way. They don’t approve of us at all and you’re right they’re organized and dangerous.

  92. I went along yesterday not necessarily because of the gay cure myth / fantasy / delusional thinking* (* delete as appropriate) being espoused by the organisers or the speakers.

    On one level I don’t really care if some self hating homo has allowed himself to become twisted by his lifestyle choices (aka religion – that’s the lifestyle choice not the being gay part). So what if a gullible few are being seduced by some American cranks peddling largely discredited theories supported by data that is widely regarded to be falsified. There will always be suckers & snake oil merchants. Religion just gives it a nice respectable cover. However, while I don’t particularly care about them; I do feel sorry that they are being ripped off & buying into the lies. The rabbi I spoke with yesterday talked about why he was attending the conference; a genuine desire to help people. It’s always sad to witness kindness being taken as a weakness by the charlatans propagating this lie for profit.

    The reason I went is quite simple. Behind the hype, hyperbole & rhetoric this issue has caused is another concerted effort on the part of organised religion (bit like organised crime but scarier) to undermine equality legislation & gay rights. The argument basically states that gay people aren’t a minority group that need protecting, they are unwell / ill / diseased (read all those terms to refer to me recently) members of the mainstream population who need treatment not equality legislation.

    Once I’d recovered from the resulting embolism that reading this argument resulted in, I knew I had to go along. Protesting against the gay cure was a protest against the fact that I’m not ill, unwell or diseased; that I’m not living out a shallow, nihilistic “lifestyle choice” (that lie really pisses me off) but that I am in fact a happy, loving, higher rate tax paying, law abiding, socially conscious citizen who happens to prefer having another man in his bed. Nobody’s business but my own.

    I don’t want organised religion to love me or try to feed me cheap biscuits when I’m telling them they’re wrong. Why don’t they take a leaf out of the book of 99% of the general population & just tolerate or ignore others? Not much to ask is it? Just rubbing along getting through this sometimes bloody difficult life, different but the same.

  93. Well said – Omar al-B, Phil P, Nikki, Neil. . . you fantastic people

    They need to understand they do not have any right to “Eliminate Us”

    The security arrangements they needed on the day is testimony to what a paranoid Nazi regime they think they can set up to exterminate us.

    They think they can replace the gas chambers with the therapists consulting room.

    As Winston Churchill said about the Nazi . . . we will fight them in the air . . . we will fight them on the land . . . we will fight them on the beaches

    . . . and we will never allow their perverted (NARTH) science to destroy our people.

    To all you homo haters reading these blogs
    Get the message!
    Get used to

  94. To all you haters of lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, and transgender people!

    Have you got the message yet!
    Well . . . Get used to it!

  95. @ Reality Check and other Christian “ex-gay” enthusiasts

    Has it not occurred to you that the willingness of so-called “Evangelical” leaders to form shady alliances with Mormons, Kabbalistic Jews and Freudian Roman Catholics is an open confession of the insufficiency of Christ to save?

    It is a public denial that Christ alone is sufficient for the care of souls and to save souls from sin.

    It is a flagrant denial of “the faith once delivered to the saints” – the gospel proclaimed by Paul of Tarsus (see Romans 1-8 and all of Galatians especially)

    Do you really need to be reminded why, historically, most Evangelicals have considered the RCC to be, at best, an apostate church and promoter of false doctrine. Do I need I remind you that the Apostles of Christ were concerned to convert as many of their fellow Jews as possible to faith in Christ, “that they might receive salvation”, not running conferences with them attempting to expunge a particular sin using utterly carnal, unbiblical, and possibly ineffective, even harmful, methods to do so.

    Which brings me to my last major point: the Freudian underpinnings of Joseph Nicolosi’s “reparative therapy”. Do I really need to tell you that Freudian psychology is incompatible and irreconcilable with Biblical psychology, anthropology, hamartiology and soteriology, or that Freud saw himself in a Messianic role and actually identified himself with the Devil ? (for more on this last, please see David Bakan’s excellent book “Sigmund Freud & the Jewish Mystical Tradition”)

    Please also see this site on psychoheresy in the Evangelical Church: psychoheresy-aware dot org

    And google this one on Kabbalistic Judaism (re: Satinover et al)

    “crossroads quotes occult kabbalah”

    These world-views are utterly incompatible with one another, and this shady alliance they have formed is a religious train-wreck in the making!

    Christian, please make sure you’re not aboard when it happens!

  96. Nikki Onslow 26 Apr 2009, 2:12pm

    For anybody who thinks that our protest yesterday was a storm in a tea-cup just look at what the Anglicans in America are trying to squeeze out of it to their advantage!!!!!

    virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10318

  97. Nikki Onslow 26 Apr 2009, 2:15pm

    Here are two groups in the US that we need to team up with:

    exgaywatch.com

    truthwinsout.org

  98. Nikki

    Thanks for this links, “very interesting”. I agree we do need to watch these Exgays and Those That SURROUND THEM.

    Because they are sick and destructive they are dangerous to themselves and potentially very dangerous to any one who opposes them.

    I will be posting some information soon about the Links between NARTH the NHS, and psychotherapy training institutes in this country.

    I will say this because I know what I have just written is a bit of a tease.

    In 1996 NARTH was invited to speak at the APP (Association for psychoanalytic psychotherapy in the NHS), The Tavistock Clinic (London), the Anna Freud Centre (London) and British psychoanalytic association (Main training for psychoanalysts)

    There was a big protest, and “A LETTER OF CONCERN” written . . . Charles Socarides who was then the leader of NARTH (Now Dead) was not allowed present his views to the above organistions who had invited him

  99. Keith SIMPSON 26 Apr 2009, 3:56pm

    Comment #92

    NEIL…!

    Exactly..!

    I could not have put it better myself..!
    I had exactly the same crap thrown at me almost 50 years ago about me being ‘ill’.
    Now, 50 years later, I am still here ‘in sin’, and they are still there in their churches praying for me, here ‘in (my) ‘sin’.
    Nothing has changed.
    They can all go ‘bollox’.
    I wish I had known then at 20 what I know know at almost 70; I’d have saved myself an ocean.
    Balls to the lot of them.
    They are wrong…
    KEITH.
    SALFORD.

  100. Keith SIMPSON 26 Apr 2009, 4:00pm

    oo … er… that should read ….”ill but curable”

    The “curable” bit is the most important bit of the crap.
    I dread to think what I would have gone thro’ (electricity) if I had followed that fuckwit priest’s advice instead of walking out on religion there and then as a kid.. !!
    KEITH.
    SALFORD.

  101. Martin Prendergast 26 Apr 2009, 5:21pm

    JohnK thanks for this. I am absolutely shocked. This is frightening (that these reputable health organizations were preparing to receive NARTH).

    Some years ago when I was failing to meet gay people who I liked because I was living in an isolated situation I saw an ad for therapy offering to help gays and lesbians turn straight. I answered it and had an appointment with a psychiatrist with a big brass plate on his door and lots of qualifications on it. He told me he would use a combination of strengthening my will-power to think heterosexual and behave heterosexual and aversion therapy. He explained both in detail. The aversion therapy would involve pictures of men and electrical shocks. I thought that sounded painful so I told him I wanted to try the will-power route first. I wasted about two years of my life practising the use of will-power to be straight. By the end of the two years I realised I had discovered that I could do a lot with my will-power but there was no way I could change my inner sexual nature. Though I spent a lot of energy on heterosexual women they just continued to do nothing for me sexually.

    It was two years of my life down the plughole! Such a waste.

    And to think people are still pushing this nonsense makes my blood boil, whether they do it because it brings in the money (yes, my therapy was private and cost me a fortune) or because they think it must be done for religious reasons.

    I think we ought to organise so that NARTH never dares to set foot in this country again and we ought to help gays and lesbians in the USA too and get this organization disbanded. It’s so destructive.

  102. Reality Check 27 Apr 2009, 5:14am

    “NARTH consists of evil fascist Nazi-like killers of gay pride. The agenda of NARTH is to KILL gay pride” Omar

    “The people at NARTH are just the same as Muslim fundamentalists” Omar.

    “So what if a gullible few are being seduced by some American cranks peddling largely discredited theories supported by data that is widely regarded to be falsified.”Neil

    “Because they are sick and destructive they are dangerous to themselves and potentially very dangerous to any one who opposes them.” John K.

    A few more of your comments that show clearly what I said previously is true. It may boost your ego to make such dim-witted statements but it doesn’t impress normal people.

    And people don’t listen when you constantly say what is not true. Homophobia is the fear of homosexuals. It has nothing at all to do with people disagreeing with you.

  103. “And people don’t listen when you constantly say what is not true.”

    Exactly, so why on earth you think anyone here is actually listening to, or believes your hate-filled bile on this thread, is beyond me.

  104. Reality check

    Say exactly what you like!
    Think exactly what you like!
    Behaviour exactly as you like!

    The majority of people these days think homophobia, heterosexism and bigotry to be unacceptable.

    Why is it that you do not?

  105. @ unReality Check

    I notice, that, like your fellow Christians, you have chosen to deal with my – very legitimate – challenges by avoidance!

    The world-view of a Freudian “psychotherapist” or a Jewish Kabbalist is quite simply irreconcilable with that of an Orthodox Christian!

    For Evangelical leaders to encourage Christians to entrust the care of their souls to such “false teachers” would normally be unthinkable – yet Lisa Nolland and her cronies at Anglican Mainstream are so very desperate to expunge this particular sin that they’re willing to hand over the flock to the influence of those they would previously have denounced as “occultists”!

    Rather than take the risk of extending “too much” compassion and grace to faithful gay couples, they prefer to form a shady alliance with those world-view they regard as fundamentally anti-Christian.

    It’s frankly utterly indefensible hypocrisy, which is why, I imagine, I have received no respone from Lisa Nolland to my email of last Friday pointing all this out!

    She has made no attempt to defend herself!

    No wonder!

  106. Rob Fox

    Well said . . . as you point out so eloquently, they simple cannot respond to a challange.

    I love the way you expose their shady, supurious incompatible alliance with other systems of thought.

    As we keep pointing out . . . they can only think in one way . . . they only have one story.

    As you also expose, they only draw up allegiance with other great systems of thought as long as it supports their self-referential agenda.

    . . . your take on the Exgays?

  107. Hi John K

    Thanks for your response.

    As a former Evangelical – though never an “ex-gay” one – I can say from experience that those “under the influence” (and I use that expression advisedly!) of conservative religion are operating under a system of coercive persuasion, that is, Mind Control. They experience what cult researchers call “bounded choice”. They’re not truly free to choose in the way someone from a non-religious or liberal religious background is.

    I don’t call it “brainwashing” because that’s a program of thought reform implemented by a KNOWN enemy.

    Otherwise, it’s the same. All information and evidence not germane to the religious system of mind control must be excluded – because “unbelief is sin” – and that leads the unfortunate believer into ever-decreasing circles of programmed thought.

    Of course there’s the carrot-and-stick element to it all, and lashings of exploitation of fear, guilt and shame to top it all off!

    Sadly, all this destruction of life is needless, even for Evangelical Christians. As Evangelical pastor Lewis Smedes showed, validating faithful gay relationships is no more problematic, in principle, than validating remarriage after divorce – which many evangelical churches are willing to do

    google: smedes Like the Wideness of the Sea

    yet those at Anglican Mainstream and similar groups seem to think their histrionic response and willingness to promote quackery and falsehood show their commitment to Orthodoxy!

    I thinks it reveals something else!

    I just feel so sorry for those who’ve been made to feel so guilty and ashamed and hopeless about all LGBT relationships that they’re willing to subject their souls to such depradations by spiritual criminals.

    I think our best approach is to expose the hypocrisy and falsehood – and “therapeutic” ineffectiveness – of these ex-gay busine$$es (that’s what they ARE, after all) and their religious tag-alongs, whilst showing their victims that there are LGBT-accepting groups right across the religious spectrum…

    Then, hopefully, they can free up their minds enough to dispassionately examine the historical origins of their religion, and decide, freely, and for themselves, how much of it to retain or discard…

  108. Rob
    Thank you for these ideas, I particularly find the idea of “bounded choice” illuminating . . . which would explain their tenacity at challenging but inability to rise to a challenge.

    In a sense when you unpack the psychodynamics of their psyche, I can see quite clearly that fear, guilt and shame would be central affects; and it would be interesting to study how these operate more closely . . . perhaps by analyzing the ex-gays on these threads, the rhetoric in their literature and by visiting their meetings. I hope by discussing these issues in this manner that I might inspire some one to make it their PhD project.

    “Spiritual Criminals”. . . I think that aptly s describes the charlatans peddling hope to contain the guilt fear and shame . . . but sadly . . . No shortage of those. I agree that the best approach with these exgays is to expose this hypocrisy and falsehood, whilst at the same time pointing to more healthy ways to contain painful feelings. My own feeling is that when they use euphemisms such as:

    “Unwanted homosexual feelings

    . . . I feel this is an expression of some what deeper perversity to which they have succumb, and as you point out so clearly in terms of ever decreasing circles of programmed thought. . . However when I see this I feel compelled to challenge it head on for the lack of humanity which it so clearly reveals.

    I could talk histrionics all night since this is a particular interest of mine . . . perhaps later . . . must get some sleep

    Kind regards
    JK

  109. Reality Check 28 Apr 2009, 2:56am

    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers not male prostitutes not homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, your were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9

    Just as well we don’t listen to you ranting and raving.

  110. Reality Check 28 Apr 2009, 2:58am

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    It is too late when you die to find out you were wrong.

  111. Looks like when Reality Check can’t hold his own in an intelligent debate, he/she resorts to preaching at us. Oh, and and in the process displays ignorance of the changes in meaning in bible passages due to 1,500 years of language translations and the fact that the meanings of words change over time. Language evolves after all, it is not “set”.

    Perhaps you should learn the fundamentals of language and history first eh RC?

  112. Reality Check would do better to quote St Paul in 1 Cor 11: “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.”

    George, you can’t have an intelligent debate with someone who spews bible quotes. Until people like that can say how they know how the bible is true, how they know what god wants – never mind knowing such a being exists – you have to leave these people out of any argument.

    Language evolves indeed. (Don’t get me started on THAT subject, but it is worth asking, if this person accepts we did infact evolve from single celled organisms, 3.5 billion years or so ago; or if he thinks man walked with dinosaurs) Evolution explains how we have developed as a civilisation too. Our understanding of science, morality, astronomy, medicine has evolved, improved. That’s why religion, our first attempt to know things – by revelation – is also our worst attempt to understand all these disciplines; it emerged when when we knew nothing.

    Even so, religion is still the best means of enforcing tyranny and mind control, which is why it’s still around today. If women and slaves were told, they should be owned by men, because men say so – they wouldn’t believe it. If you say they should be owned, because ‘God’ wants it to be so, then they would give you the benefit of the doubt.

    So, accepting Pascal’s Wager, better to believe in and persevere till the end in case it’s true, gives you the mind of a slave, willing to do anything that a sadistic, bloodthirsty dictator asks: ‘Accept my lovely offer or go to hell’.

    It is claimed by Dr Nicolosi, he is offering help for people who seek it voluntarily. But that’s just like saying ‘we’ll allow Shari’a court tribunals on a voluntarily basis’. What are the consequences for those who refuse such treatment, and opt for a non-quack psychologist? Nicolosi beams himself down like he is a personal saviour. He may well claim that motivation has to come from within,m but since he almost exclusively talks at religiously sponsored events, he is inevitably treating many who are either fearful of going to hell, and fearful of being ostricised by their community.

    How does Reality Check know who he is talking to every time he kneels on the floor? He doesn’t. he is a mammal like everyone else and it’s beyond his critical faculties to do so. Just think how silly this sounds: here is someone who claims to be on intimate terms with the creater of everything. And he even knows what god’s plan for you is.

    Remember, too, that the same claim is made by Sunni al Qaeda bombers, and by Shia muslims waiting for the second coming, not of the supposed Jesus, but the 12th Imam.

    Now, all Reality Check has to do, is to prove how he is right and the others are wrong. If he does, it will be a momentous occasion, because no one has ever done it, and unless nature goes out of its course in a very big way, no-one ever will.

    To quote Thomas Paine, who gave us much better morality than any bible character ever did – simply because he called for the abolition of slavery, which Jesus didn’t do, and he was 50 years ahead of Wilberforce –

    “Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course; but we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time; it is, therefore, at least millions to one, that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie.”

    And, do you really want it to be true? Who wants a reward to be an unchageable Orwellian state of never ending praise, eternal surveillance and grovelling, a never ending North Korea from which there can never be any escape?

  113. AdrianT, Rob Fox, George, JohnK: I think we need to take concerted strong action against Mr. Nicolosi (let’s ignore the American PhD he apparently possesses!).

  114. Reality Check has to be the biggest misnomer I’ve seen on this site all year. I think he’s long overdue for one, but so far he’s proved immune to anything resembling reality. Perhaps he should look for things that exist outside the bible?

  115. Yes, Eddy, needs to be done by everyone, including the professional organisations.

    **I take my comments back about Jesus: He was never *reported* to have called for the end of slavery. I give him the benefit of the doubt, since his words have been abused and wrongly interpreted by editors and translators over the centuries. If people take inspiration from the compassionate verses, which have inspired a lot of good – fine, but then I really think it’s time people went through the whole bible and decided what poisonous verses should be ejected. Such an action has been done time and time again; no reason it cannot be done now.

    I don’t think nice prose and poetry is a good excuse, to keep in, for instance, Deuteronomy 18, celebrating genocide and ethnic cleansing.

  116. @ unReality Check

    You’re laughable, you really are! You STILL havent responded to my challenge that these so-called “Evangelical leaders” seem to find it preferable to hand over the care of souls to “occultists” that to entrust them to the “grace of Christ”.

    Parrotting the bible instead of responding appropriately is just a form of thought-stopping – demonstrating exactly my point about mind control in the conservative religious environment!

    But since you seem to enjoy scripture quotations so much here’s one for you to ponder:

    “And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their doom will match their deeds!”

    2 Cor 11:14-15

  117. Eddy897

    “AdrianT, Rob Fox, George, JohnK: I think we need to take concerted strong action against Mr. Nicolosi (let’s ignore the American PhD he apparently possesses!).”

    I agree we need to take strong and concerted action against Mr. Nicolosi. . . tell us about some of your ideas

  118. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 7:54am

    The majority of people these days think homophobia, heterosexism and bigotry to be unacceptable.John K.

    HOMOPHOBIA – The fear of homosexuals. So are you going to start a campaign to make it illegal to be afraid of homosexuals. And what about a fear of heights or a fear of spiders. Are you going to make them illegal as well. How do you propose to punish those who have a fear of anything?

  119. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 7:57am

    Exactly, so why on earth you think anyone here is actually listening to, or believes your hate-filled bile on this thread, is beyond me. George

    Ah! play the man not the ball when you have got nothing to say.

  120. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 7:59am

    It’s frankly utterly indefensible hypocrisy, which is why, I imagine, I have received no respone from Lisa Nolland to my email of last Friday pointing all this out! Rob Fox

    Why does she need to defend herself against such unmitigated rubbish?

  121. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 8:07am

    As a former Evangelical – though never an “ex-gay” one – I can say from experience that those “under the influence” (and I use that expression advisedly!) of conservative religion are operating under a system of coercive persuasion, that is, Mind Control.Rob Fox

    As an evangelical christian, I have never and am not under the influence of anyone. That makes us one all.

  122. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 8:11am

    I agree that the best approach with these exgays is to expose this hypocrisy and falsehood, whilst at the same time pointing to more healthy ways to contain painful feelings. John K

    For someone who is supposed to be happy about being homosexual and demanding your right to be so, you are to say the least very hypocritical in your campaign to convince those who are no longer homosexuals to become one again.

    In other words, I want what I want but you can’t have what you want.

  123. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 8:13am

    Perhaps you should learn the fundamentals of language and history first eh RC? George.

    I have with a degree in classical greek and middle east history.

  124. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 8:23am

    if this person accepts we did infact evolve from single celled organisms, 3.5 billion years or so ago; Adrian T

    Evidence please!!

    Evolution explains how we have developed as a civilisation too. Adrian T.

    Evidence please!!

    Even so, religion is still the best means of enforcing tyranny and mind control, Adrian T

    Evidence please!!

    How does Reality Check know who he is talking to every time he kneels on the floor? He doesn’t Adrian T

    Evidence please!!

    To quote Thomas Paine, who gave us much better morality than any bible character ever did – simply because he called for the abolition of slavery, which Jesus didn’t do, and he was 50 years ahead of Wilberforce –

    “Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course; but we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time; it is, therefore, at least millions to one, that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie.” Adrian T.

    “But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” Albert Einstein.

  125. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 8:26am

    Perhaps he should look for things that exist outside the bible? Flapjack

    I do every day. My house, my family, my car, my supermarket, my swimming pool, my computer, my books, my garden to name a few.

  126. Reality Check 29 Apr 2009, 8:28am

    but then I really think it’s time people went through the whole bible and decided what poisonous verses should be ejected. Adrien T.

    We don’t need to because homosexuals and atheists do it all the time for us. They must spend an inordinate amount of time reading it. I have to laugh when I read of people who don’t accept what the bible says then they spend all their time quoting it.

  127. @ RC – I think you’ve found that myself and others here have plenty to say. Most if it has now been said, you still give us your nonsense and yet despite this, you persist on visiting a gay website.

    Also, I think you’ll find that many homosexuals, myself included, are very familiar with the bible. Homophobes like yourself (and yes, you clearly are a homophobe), oftem make the mistake of presuming that we are not familiar with this book. I was raised church of scotland, father is a church organist, late grandfather was one too, raised through sunday school, teenage church youth groups, the whole works. So I am more than familiar with the crap you believe, but more importantly I know that the bible does not condemm homosexuality as you seem to believe.

    Don’t take my word for it, arch-bishop desmond tutu has publicly said the same thing, as do many other learned church leaders of various denominations.

    Believe you me, I have plenty to say, but saying it to you is clearly a waste of breath because you refuse to engage in an intelligent debate on the issues. Before you accuse me of having nothing to say on the matter, I might suggest you address some of the questions posed to you so far, you still have not answered them.

    Finally, don’t you worry about me playing the man or the balls, I can do both at once (or is that an offer?). ;)

  128. Folks, you’re wasting your time with this muppet, “RealityCheck”. His name is clearly a joke, he is anything but.

    He’s arguing the bible as fact. Its like using the Harry Potter books as proof of witchcraft. Its nonsense.

    He claims to be learned, but no one who spouts such homophobia could be educated. If they were, they’ve have done their research and realised “homosexuality” is as natural in the animal kingdom as heterosexuality… they would not using the bible as some blind faith get-out-of-jail-card in lieu of a rational argument like this little peddler of superstitious rubbish. Anyone who so much as passes a book on evolution would see that the amount of evidence in favour of it is simply overwhelming, and the evidence to the contrary is only spouted by nuts like this idiot. I can only assume he got his degree with 4 tokens from a Kellogg’s Cornflake packet.

    Realitycheck is clearly an idiot, its that obvious. He’s here to massage his shallow ego thinking he’s on some moral peg above us.

    We should lower ourself to tell this creep to simply f**koff, its all he deserves.

  129. “Reality Check” said: “As an evangelical christian, I have never and am not under the influence of anyone.”

    The things stated by that person behind the nom-de-plume “Reality Check” make his/her nom-de-plume fatuous.

    To state “As an evangelical christian, I have never and am not under the influence of anyone” is to make a complete blithering fool of oneself. It is the most obvious tautology. A person who acknowledges that he or she can be classified as “an evangelical Christian” is at the same time acknowledging that they are completely under the influence of the simplistic ideas attributed to Jesus Christ and the vast and complex religious body and tradition which has been built by man upon those simplistic ideas.

    Reality Check, let go of the nonsense in your head. You CAN live without it. You don’t need all of that bullshit. You can live by a very high moral code that is entirely free of the voo-doo nonsense of ANY of all the man-made beliefs in spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies.

    In other words, see that the person behind the nom-de-plume “Reality Check” acknowledges that he is a believer in the invented universe of spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies.

    It’s embarrassing, isn’t it?

    Yes, you have two options.

    1. Just put your hands up in the air and give in and admit, “Sorry, guys, yes I’ve been a complete indoctrinated pixie-loving fool!”

    or

    2. See what a massive admission you need to make and fear that making it will result in nothing but a loss of face and so continue to convince yourself that the invented universe of spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies DOES exist and must be defended.

    Reality Check, you know, when Evangelical Christians choose Option 1 the only people who do not laud them for doing so are all the others who hold fast to their belief in the spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies. WE WILL THINK WELL OF YOU.

  130. Well atheists actually don’t worry too much about which verses of a book written by simple goat herders who knew no science, should be thrown out – the answer is, of course, to throw it all out. But yes we do care about the contents, since most of the hatred and misery in the world today is driven by religion.

    We have the UN Declaration of Human Rights, 1948 – the pinnacle, so far, of morality. We don’t need anything in the Bible to tell us how to be moral.

    Can you honestly hear yourself saying, you would not know not to kill, steal, lie, without reading this? I hope you think better of yourself than that.

    But isn’t it interesting, you can always ask these people, how old they think the earth is. We’ve been here before RealityCheck – feel free to argue about this if you want to be humiliated and further exposed as an imbecile.

    Reality Check, you must prove you are talking to somebody. I can’t see or smell, or hear, or feel this friend of yours. It’s not for me to prove nobody is there. Until you can do that, there is no debate to be had with you. What’s more likely – nature makes an exception in your case and listens to your prayers, as opposed to the many who live under appalling conditions of poverty, disease, famine – or you were brought up to believe all this as a child?

    As for your Einstein quote – very selectively chosen – as usual deceitful, an insult to the intelligence of one of humankind’s greatest thinkers.

    Einstein’s belief was no more religious than Spinoza’s; pantheism. It so happens a letter went on sale last May at Sotheby’s – I believe it fetched £8,000 – dated 3 January 1954, in which he says (and I couldn’t say it better myself):

    “The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

    “For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people.

    “As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are better protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.”

  131. Alex, Brisbane, Qld 29 Apr 2009, 10:44am

    I have to say, I’m here in Brisbane, and this has made the best reading… sometimes i really miss the mother country.x.

  132. @ unReality Check

    You STILL havent responded to my challenge that these so-called “Evangelical leaders” seem to find it preferable to hand over the care of souls to “occultists” that to entrust them to the “grace of Christ”.

    Lisa Nolland and her cronies at Anglican Mainstream have made a public confession of the insufficiency of Christ for the salvation and care of souls. They are leading the flock into heresy, if not downright apostasy.

    Therefore a public act of contrition is required of them.

    How do you respond to this challenge?

  133. @ unReality Check

    “As an evangelical christian, I have never and am not under the influence of anyone.”

    Do you not realize that this is a public confession of your apostasy?

    You’re supposed to “take every thought captive unto Christ” are you not? You’re supposed to be under the influence of “Christ alone”.

    For someone claiming a degree-level education you seem to be appallingly ignorant of “those things pertaining unto salvation” – which surely should be your primary consideration!

  134. “inside lies obfuscation and despair”
    Looked at this link and found quoted one of my mini-chants at the protest on Saturday. Yea – I’m famous! though for much less than my alloted 15mins – LOL.
    virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10318

    These guys and their therapies (“bounded choice” above is a good description of their idea of freedom) are insidious and pernicious – LBGT groups are taking action against these types of events where they can. Professionals also reacting via Pink Therapy/UKCP event. How about, in addition, a branch of Truth Wins Out for the UK?

    Reality Check, would you like to join?

  135. Reality Check Wrote
    “HOMOPHOBIA – The fear of homosexuals. So are you going to start a campaign to make it illegal to be afraid of homosexuals. And what about a fear of heights or a fear of spiders. Are you going to make them illegal as well. How do you propose to punish those who have a fear of anything?”

    It is not illegal to be afraid of homosexuals
    It is illegal to however to act upon your fears
    Individually as homophobic hatred bigotry or abuse
    or
    Collectively as institutional heterosexism

    When you say
    “are you going to start a campaign to make it illegal to be afraid of homosexuals”

    This implies that you think acting upon homophobia or enacting heterosexism is acceptable
    The UK government has decided it is not acceptable

    I can see that puts you in a difficult position

  136. Reality Check 30 Apr 2009, 7:45am

    QUOTE: Also, I think you’ll find that many homosexuals, myself included, are very familiar with the bible.

    How many?

    QUOTE: So I am more than familiar with the crap you believe, but more importantly I know that the bible does not condemm homosexuality as you seem to believe.

    Chapter and verses please.

    QUOTE: Believe you me, I have plenty to say, but saying it to you is clearly a waste of breath because you refuse to engage in an intelligent debate on the issues.

    I am still waiting for the intelligent bit.

    QUOTE: He claims to be learned, but no one who spouts such homophobia could be educated.

    Only those who are not afraid of homosexuals is educated.

    Evidence please!!!

    QUOTE: is at the same time acknowledging that they are completely under the influence of the simplistic ideas attributed to Jesus Christ and the vast and complex religious body and tradition which has been built by man upon those simplistic ideas.

    How do you know, you have never met me?

    QUOTE: 1. Just put your hands up in the air and give in and admit, “Sorry, guys, yes I’ve been a complete indoctrinated pixie-loving fool!”

    What, you mean just like you?

    QUOTE: But yes we do care about the contents, since most of the hatred and misery in the world today is driven by religion.

    What religion was it that drove Lenin and Stalin to kill 60 million?

    QUOTE: feel free to argue about this if you want to be humiliated and further exposed as an imbecile.

    Is this an example of the intelligent debate someone was talking about?

    QUOTE: Einstein’s belief was no more religious than Spinoza’s; pantheism

    Evidence please!!!

    QUOTE: “For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions.

    Evidence please!!!!

    QUOTE: Lisa Nolland and her cronies at Anglican Mainstream have made a public confession of the insufficiency of Christ for the salvation and care of souls.

    No they haven’t.

    QUOTE:You STILL havent responded to my challenge that these so-called “Evangelical leaders” seem to find it preferable to hand over the care of souls to “occultists” that to entrust them to the “grace of Christ”.

    You do believe in fairy stories don’t you.

    QUOTE: You’re supposed to “take every thought captive unto Christ” are you not? You’re supposed to be under the influence of “Christ alone”.

    And what does this mean O holy one?

    QUOTE: For someone claiming a degree-level education you seem to be appallingly ignorant of “those things pertaining unto salvation” – which surely should be your primary consideration!

    Must be as ignorant as you!!!

    QUOTE: It is not illegal to be afraid of homosexuals

    Why is it such a problem to you then as you accuse everyone of having a fear of homosexuals if they disagree with you? That must put you in a difficult position.

    QUOTE: “are you going to start a campaign to make it illegal to be afraid of homosexuals”

    Answer the question. We don’t need red herrings which your freezer must be full of, especially as you are demanding intelligent debate.

  137. ‘What drove Lenin and Stalin to kill 60 million?’

    Stalin – orthodox seminarian who took power from the Czar, who was, as far as his credulous people were concerned, the link to god. He merely replaced one unquestionable, unassailable, unalterable, absolute power with another. Stalinism and Christianity run parralel to each other:
    - the personality cult and worshipful status of their messiah
    - the witch hunts and excommunications: the gulags, mass murders, Inquisition style;
    - the miracles: in this case, economic miracles of Tomfin Lysenko, based on no evidence;

    The whole point, which seems to bypass Reality Check’s narrow mind, is to get rid of worship in the first place.

    And yes, the quotes from Einstein’s letter were the evidence. Check them yourself.

  138. Repeat message for The Free-Roaming Delusional calling him/herself “Reality Check”.

    ———————————————-

    “Reality Check” said: “As an evangelical christian, I have never and am not under the influence of anyone.”

    The things stated by that person behind the nom-de-plume “Reality Check” make his/her nom-de-plume fatuous.

    To state “As an evangelical christian, I have never and am not under the influence of anyone” is to make a complete blithering fool of oneself. It is the most obvious tautology. A person who acknowledges that he or she can be classified as “an evangelical Christian” is at the same time acknowledging that they are completely under the influence of the simplistic ideas attributed to Jesus Christ and the vast and complex religious body and tradition which has been built by man upon those simplistic ideas.

    Reality Check, let go of the nonsense in your head. You CAN live without it. You don’t need all of that bullshit. You can live by a very high moral code that is entirely free of the voo-doo nonsense of ANY of all the man-made beliefs in spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies.

    In other words, see that the person behind the nom-de-plume “Reality Check” acknowledges that he is a believer in the invented universe of spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies.

    It’s embarrassing, isn’t it?

    Yes, you have two options.

    1. Just put your hands up in the air and give in and admit, “Sorry, guys, yes I’ve been a complete indoctrinated pixie-loving fool!”

    or

    2. See what a massive admission you need to make and fear that making it will result in nothing but a loss of face and so continue to convince yourself that the invented universe of spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies DOES exist and must be defended.

    Reality Check, you know, when Evangelical Christians choose Option 1 the only people who do not laud them for doing so are all the others who hold fast to their belief in the spirits, ghosts, supernatural beings, imps, fairies, elves, and pixies. WE WILL THINK WELL OF YOU.

    ——————————————————-
    “Reality Check” has chosen to not respond to the above post. However, “Reality Check” has responded to subsequent posts. Therefore, it is probable that “Reality Check” has blanked out the above post. But of course adherents of belief in gods, ghosts, spirits, pixies and the like often choose to blank out that which threatens their delusions. (“Reality Check” is actually “Free-Roaming Delusional”.)

  139. “Reality Check” has in fact STILL not responded appropriately at all to my posts – he has reacted with a stream of obfuscating nonsense – and has demonstrated his (or her) complete ignorance of fundamental teachings of the Bible, and doctrines of Evangelical Christianity!

    For this reason I believe he is just a troll and not a Christian at all!

    If I was a Christian, “Reality Check”, I’d be VERY worried about my lack of knowledge of “those things which pertain unto salvation” – your ignorance is truly shocking!

    In fact, you’re probably not even “saved” at all!

  140. Reality check you distort and twist every thing I say to you.

    Perhaps this is because it reflects something of your inablity to engage with reality. You seem to be constantly checking reality then then ellimating it . . . particularly in relation to homophobia and heterosexism.

    You are still not engaging in a debate with us, despite your long thread. All you seem to be proposing is a series of questions for which we are suppose to provide your with answers.

    I am bored with you reality check games you play.

  141. @ RealitCheck:

    QUOTE: He claims to be learned, but no one who spouts such homophobia could be educated.

    Only those who are not afraid of homosexuals is educated. Evidence please!!!

    Well, lets begin with your authoritarian approach and your “I’m better than you” view of the world, limited though it might be, shall we? “Religiosity, Authoritarianism, and Homophobia: A Multidimensional Approach,” by Wayne W. Wilkinson, showed that instead of using fundamentalism or irrationality as a basis for homophobia, the term right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is better used, defined as “a socio-political construct characterized by submission to recognized authorities and the social norms established by those authorities, and hostility toward groups seen as violating these norms”.

    That makes you a bigot. Quod erat demonstrandum.

    Next, lets look at your diminished intelligence:-

    The average IQ of racists is up to 4 IQ points less than people of non (Montagu 1952 & 1988, Allport 1946, Frenkel-Brunswick and Sanford 1945).

    In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg showed Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions.

    In 1975, Norman Poythress studied a sample of 234 US college undergraduates, grouping them into relatively homogeneous religious types based on the similarity of their religious beliefs, and compared their personality characteristics. He discovered that “religious believers” as a group were found to be significantly less intelligent and more authoritarian than religious sceptics.”

    Now on to the question of the lack of education among the bigoted religious types… like your good self:-

    In the US, according to raw data from the 2004 General Social Survey, those with graduate degrees were the least likely to believe in the afterlife or the Bible as the word of God, suggesting a link between religious belief and lower educational attainment.

    So, you’re not only an idiot, but most likely an uneducated one. Quod erat demonstrandum

    But do you really need me to prove (which I just did) your stupididty, when you do such a fantastic job of showing it off yourself with that recent show of a blindingly ignorant view on evolution?

    Now how about YOU put some evidence behind that fairy story of a book called the bible and PROVE to us your foolish little statements.

  142. I said: ‘Lisa Nolland and her cronies at Anglican Mainstream have made a public confession of the insufficiency of Christ for the salvation and care of souls’

    RC said: No they haven’t.

    – Yes, they have, and unlike you, RC, Ms Nolland’s fellow evangelicals will have NO difficulty whatsoever in recognising that fact when I draw their attention to it!

    I said: ‘You STILL havent responded to my challenge that these so-called “Evangelical leaders” seem to find it preferable to hand over the care of souls to “occultists” that to entrust them to the “grace of Christ”‘

    RC said: You do believe in fairy stories don’t you.

    – That sounds like a confession of your own unbelief to me! I have never – and never would – describe Biblical Christianity as “fairy stories”. It’s much too sinister and destructive – especially in its premillennial dispensationalist form – for that! I have described it as a ‘Cosmic Protection Racket’ and the Apostles of Christ as ‘deluded’ – which they were.

    I said: ‘You’re supposed to “take every thought captive unto Christ” are you not? You’re supposed to be under the influence of “Christ alone”‘

    RC said: And what does this mean O holy one?

    – Uh oh! This is the dead giveaway, I’m afraid! I thought it would be patronizing to ‘chapter & verse’ you, RC, but it seems impossible to underestimate your Biblical literacy!

    It’s Paul, of course, 2Cor 10:5b “we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ” (NIV)

  143. Reality Check 1 May 2009, 1:18am

    QUOTE: The whole point, which seems to bypass Reality Check’s narrow mind, is to get rid of worship in the first place.

    I nice convenient invention to cover up the facts that he was an atheist and hated religion.

    QUOTE:Repeat message for The Free-Roaming Delusional calling him/herself “Reality Check”.

    Whe the emperor has no clothes he resorts to ridicule.

    QUOTE: But of course adherents of belief in gods, ghosts, spirits, pixies and the like often choose to blank out that which threatens their delusions. (“Reality Check” is actually “Free-Roaming Delusional”.)

    When I enquired, I was told that all those things you have listed had already been taken by homos and atheists, so I was left with believing in the one true God.

    QUOTE: If I was a Christian, “Reality Check”, I’d be VERY worried about my lack of knowledge of “those things which pertain unto salvation”

    You should be as you have shown that yu have no idea what you are talking about!!

    QUOTE: I am bored with you reality check games you play.

    The go and play the games that homos play. I didn’t ask you to read what I wrote and nobody is making you.

    QUOTE: But do you really need me to prove (which I just did) your stupididty, when you do such a fantastic job of showing it off yourself with that recent show of a blindingly ignorant view on evolution?

    So many compliments. I think you fancy me. What view are you talking about regarding evolution. Just as a matter of interest my I.Q. is 120.

    QUOTE:I have described it as a ‘Cosmic Protection Racket’ and the Apostles of Christ as ‘deluded’ – which they were.

    Proof please O wise and learned one?

    QUOTE: It’s Paul, of course, 2Cor 10:5b “we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ” (NIV)

    And what does it mean O wise and learned one?

  144. “Just as a matter of interest my I.Q. is 120.”

    Is that all? Hardly what you’d call way above average, now, is it? Thank you for validating my point that people who have dogmatic “lifestyle choices” are usually more stupid than those who don’t.

    Explains why the basic tenants of evolution are beyond you.

    I see you are not too keen on addressing evidence or providing your own for your silly little spouts of religious nonsense, despite the fact you seem to like demanding it of others so often.

    I think you’ve lost your arguments here, why not run along and try corporal mortification flagellation or something.

  145. “A.T.: The whole point… is to get rid of worship in the first place.

    R.T: A nice convenient invention to cover up the facts that he was an atheist and hated religion.

    A.T: That’s not the point. Democracy, the right to hold people to account for their actions and words – (that’s what reason is all about by the way), the abolition of absolute power by someone claiming to be appointed by god rather than the will of the people, the right to free speech and ask ‘by what right’ do you make decisions on my behalf: the starting point on this journey to emancipation begins with getting out of the kneeling position.

    Unquestioning loyalty is the starting point of all totalitarianism. And that, my friend, is why Stalinism needed years of Church-inspired dictatorship to take root.

    The very question ‘by what right’ is a problem for the parties of god, because if a senile old man with a cloak hat goes around saying ‘god doesn’t want people in AIDS-ridden Africa to use condoms’, he can expect derision, contempt. The Vatican reaction to the criticism is not to think, well, most health officials might have a point, but to condemn them for not showing due respect, and to play the persecuted card.

  146. @ Reality Check

    Bye Bye – you creepy lying troll!

  147. “The go and play the games that homos play”

    You mean like read book, live affluent and educated lifestyles, and laugh at mentally retarded fools like you?

    Okay then.

  148. Reality check
    If you addressed people thread to thread rather than resorting to masturbatory rants . . . we might get less bored and show more intnerest.

  149. In the last three weeks we’ve had a spate of idiotic nonsense firstly from “David Skinner”, then some “Paul Brownsey” (or some Brown name a bit like that), and most recently from “Reality Check”. What will be the next nom-de-plume?

  150. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 1:37am

    QUOTE: Is that all? Hardly what you’d call way above average, now, is it?

    What’s yours – 10?

    QUOTE: Explains why the basic tenants of evolution are beyond you.

    Yes, I stopped reading fairy stories years ago.

    QUOTE: I think you’ve lost your arguments here, why not run along and try corporal mortification flagellation or something.

    I can’t, I am not a homo.

    QUOTE: That’s not the point.

    Of course its not when it challenges your fairy stories.

    QUOTE: Bye Bye – you creepy lying troll!

    What’s your I.Q – minus 10!!!

    QUOTE: You mean like read book, live affluent and educated lifestyles, and laugh at mentally retarded fools like you?

    And in between stick your dick up other men’s bums. What you might call mentally retarded.

    QUOTE: If you addressed people thread to thread rather than resorting to masturbatory rants . . . we might get less bored and show more intnerest.

    Since when have homos been interested in the truth?

    QUOTE: What will be the next nom-de-plume?

    From the very intelligent writing by homos can I suggest masturbatory ranting mentally retarded homophobic non evolutionary creepy lying troll. I might enter it in the Guiness Book of Records for the longest non de plume ever. Thanks guys, your mental retardation does have some use!!!

  151. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 2:58am

    Holy Bible: A General Overview
    The Holy Bible is a phenomenal account of history, comprised of 66 books, written over approximately 1600 years, by at least 40 distinct authors. The Old Testament (Old Covenant) contains 39 books written from approximately 1500 to 400 BC, and the New Testament (New Covenant) contains 27 books written from approximately 40 to 90 AD. The Jewish Bible (Tenach) is the same as the Christian Old Testament, except for its book arrangement. The original Old Testament was written mainly in Hebrew, with some Aramaic, while the original New Testament was written in Greek.

  152. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 2:59am

    The Old Testament
    The Holy Bible begins with the Jewish Scriptures. The historical record of the Jews was written down in leather scrolls and tablets over centuries, and the authors included kings, shepherds, prophets and other leaders inspired by God. In Exodus, God tells Moses to write the Law (Torah) in a book. About 450 BC, all of the Jewish scriptures were collected and arranged by councils of rabbis, who then recognized the complete set as the inspired and sacred authority of God. Beginning as early as 250 BC, the Hebrew Bible (Tenach) was translated into Greek by Jewish scholars in Alexandria, Egypt. The translation became known as the Septuagint, meaning 70, and referring to the tradition that 70 or 72 men comprised the translation team. At this point, the books of the Hebrew Bible were arranged by topic, including history, poetry, and prophecy. In 90 AD, at the Council of Jamnia, the Jewish elders established the final Hebrew Bible canon. Although the Jewish Scriptures were copied by hand, they were extremely accurate copy to copy. The Jews had a phenomenal system of scribes, who developed intricate and ritualistic methods for counting letters, words and paragraphs to insure that no copying errors were made. In fact, scribal tradition was maintained until the invention of the printing press in 1455. As far as manuscript accuracy, the recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has confirmed the remarkable reliability of the Old Testament texts over the years.

  153. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 3:00am

    The New Testament
    After approximately 400 years of scriptural silence, Jesus arrived on the scene in about 4 BC. Throughout His teaching, Jesus often quotes the Old Testament, declaring that He did not come to destroy the Jewish Scriptures, but to fulfill them. In Luke 24:44-45, Jesus proclaims to his disciples, “All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.” Starting in about 40 AD and continuing to about 90 AD, the eye-witnesses to the life of Jesus Christ, including Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter and Jude write the Gospels, letters and books that later become the New Testament. These authors quote from 31 books of the Old Testament, and widely circulate their material so that by about 150 AD, early Christians were referring to the set of writings as the New Covenant. During the 200s AD, the writings were translated into Latin, Coptic (Egypt) and Syriac (Syria) and widely disseminated. At this time, at least 21 of the writings were considered canonical. Thereafter, in 397 AD, the current 27 books of the New Testament were formally confirmed and canonized in the Synod of Carthage.

    Like the Old Testament, we now have significant evidence that the New Testament we read today is remarkably accurate as compared to the original manuscripts. Of the thousands of copies made by hand before the printing press, we have approximately 24,000 manuscripts, including more than 5,300 Greek manuscripts from the New Testament alone. The Bible is better preserved, by far, than accepted writings of Homer, Plato and Aristotle. Of course, as the Bible was carried from country to country, it was translated into languages that don’t necessarily mirror the original languages of Greek and Hebrew. However, other than grammatical and cultural differences, God’s Word has been remarkably preserved and translated over the years. The Bible now gives inspiration to hundreds of millions throughout the world – that’s because the Bible is truly the inspired Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17 and 2 Peter 1:20-21).

  154. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 3:01am

    Who Wrote the Bible – A Letter from God
    “Who wrote the Bible” is a question that is undoubtedly asked by many who are familiar with the impact this book has made on people around the world. The Bible gives guidance in our journey through life to eternity, as well as leads us to a relationship with the God of the universe. It is a historical book that is backed by archeology, and a prophetic book that has lived up to all of its claims thus far. In light of all these facts, asking, “who wrote the bible,” is a vital question that deserves serious investigation and a serious response. The Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 divinely inspired writers. These writers come from all walks of life (i.e., kings to fishermen) and spans over a period of 1,500 years or more. These claims may seem dramatic (or unrealistic to some), but a careful and honest study of the biblical scriptures will show them to be true.

  155. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 3:02am

    Who Wrote the Bible – Evidence of Divine Inspiration
    “Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.

    God does not leave us with just claims of His divine handiwork in the Bible, but also supports it with compelling evidence. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time. Most ancient writings written on weak materials like papyrus have vanished all together. Yet many copies of the Old Testament scriptures survived. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. Consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only ten copies written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ.

    The Bible also validates its divine authorship through fulfilled prophecies. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false (three are unconfirmed). An honest study of biblical prophecy will compellingly show the divine authorship of the Bible. Further, archeology confirms (or in some cases supports) accounts in the biblical record. No other holy book comes close to the Bible in the amount of evidence supporting its divine authorship.

  156. Reality Check 2 May 2009, 3:03am

    Who Wrote the Bible – A Question of Eternal Significance
    “Who Wrote the Bible” is indeed a question that everyone must ask. If indeed it is the Word of the living God, then no other book gives us more insight into our lives, more hope for our future, and a true path to a relationship with God. Search the Bible with openness and honesty and see for yourself what the Creator of the universe wants to tell you!

  157. QUOTE: Bye Bye – you creepy lying troll! What’s your I.Q – minus 10!!!

    Ha! What a really intelligent come back there Reality Check. I’m astounded by your eloquence and witty repartee! Did your special needs carer help you band that out on the keyboard with your face?

    And as for the bible crap and quotes, get lost. Seriously. You only demonstrate your foolishness with that rubbish. Who wrote the bible? Simple. Scared little inbreeds like you, who don’t have the capacity to think for themselves, and who crave control over others. In reality, its a book of archaic nonsense and contradictions, and you’ve more than proven that you don’t mental capacity to see that.

    You’re a religious fool… the worst kind of religious fool, a stupid one.

    Here’s one for you to think about while your out burning books in your back garden to appease your “god”:- we’re getting more and more rights all the time, and you can do noting to stop us. There are more of us than you. Religious fools lie you are getting fewer and fewer. Churches are emptying. Gay marriage? Just a matter of time, just a matter of time… and we are noting is not patient. And we are everywhere, at every level, more getting visible by the day. And your kind, the ones who sream at god with superstitious bile? You kind is dying off as your feverish rants become the domain of lunatics.

    How’s about that for a reality check for you.

    So, keep reading the bible, and stay indoors… you’ll only get in the way of a gay pride march.

  158. Pumpkin Pie 2 May 2009, 12:36pm

    No religious person has ever, ever, ever convinced me why – if their god WAS real – I should regard this god’s opinions as law and do what he says.

    I am a philosophy student. I have studied the arguments of some of history’s most brilliant minds, their conclusions sound, evocative, rational, subversive and inspiring. This god fellow, by comparison, is infantile. “Do it because I decided it’s right for you and I’m the one who made you” brings to mind the delusions of the monstrous Josef Fritzl. Not a good look for a deity.

  159. “I would really like to see some proof for such a nonsensical pontification”

    Well, lets see…. No. How about YOU prove your silly little comments to ME for a change. The bible is proof of nothing. You seem to demands proof easily, but you are neither able to understand it when given, nor inclined to give it yourself. Is that because there’s something wring with your mind perhaps? It does seem your are not that bright. I have already proven that, and you have backed that premise up many times in your juvenile posts, haven’t you?

    As for 2% of the population is gay, that’s a silly figure made up by “christians” such as yourself, to make yourself feel better. NARTH propaganda. Its actuality closer to 10%. And that’s probably concervative due to the fact most gay people have to lve a closet life becuase of the presence, a dying presence albeit, of peopel like you. This will change over time, we have made HUGE advances, haven’t we? Gay marriage in 4 EU states, civil unions in the remainder. Gay marriage on the increase in the US, SA and Canada. UN support against homophobia. In the UK, religious institutions being made, BY LAW, halt their discriminatory policies. Churches emptying by the day. Quite a leap from the fledgling gay rights days of the 1970′s don’t you agree. Delightful, isn’t it? I estimate in about 15 years, ALL the EU will support gay marriage and full gay equality. Warms your heart, doesn’t it?

    As for the laughable “when you are burning in hell” remark, who said I am going to hell? You? Are you god now? How delightfully delusional of you. Burn any good witches lately? Hell, like all religious dogma, is the domain of the weak, the foolish, and the stupid. Traits you have in abundance.

    Well, lets see…. a bitter twisted little man like you on a gay site, what on earth could that mean? Gor something to hide? You have proven you do ot understand science, your IQ is lower than the average, and you are trying to evangelise to an audience above your intellect. You, rather repetitively I may say, “demand” proof for things you don’t undestand, your you offer nothing but unsubstantiated “research” by propagandist institutes like NARTH, widely seen by the scientific community as petty, unscientific and agenda driven. Doesn’t say much for your “intelligence” does it? However, it does explain your rather childlike attacks on others here.

    Oh, and as for the rather daft remark “QUOTE: you’ll only get in the way of a gay pride march. Must be a very tiny march if one person will get in the way”… Don’t make me laugh! You couldn’t stop a walnut rolling across the floor. In Brazil, over 2 million gay people marched in gay pride last year. That’s one city. The “reality check” here sunshine is that we are more then you.

    We’re growing in force at incredible speed, and your and your kind are dying. THAT, you silly fool, is my “reality check” to you.

    You,like the dodo, has had its time in the sun.

    Oh, and the existence of god is noting to do with gay rights, you moron. Only people like you seem to have the delusional state that you think you hear gods word are to allow you to issue your own brand of hate against other. That’s not gods word, its called insanity.

    Good day to you. You are anything but a “reality check”, you sir, are a buffoon.

  160. Just a final note to any readers tempted to be persuaded that the Christianists arguments have some validity:

    What the Christianists quite deliberately omit to mention is that there is an ENORMOUS difference between acknowledging the possibility of the existence of a Divine Source / Transpersonal Self / Supreme Being, and capitulating to the Biblical non-sense of a violently interventionist entity like YHWH / Biblegod.

    This literary character really resembles nothing quite so much as a cosmic projection of a petulant, narcissistic, wife-beating, child-abusing, feral, ancient middle-eastern patriarch – probably not dissimilar to those males who invented him!

    Don’t worry, though, there IS a cure for Christinsanity…

    It’s called “getting an adequate theological education”!

    The majority of academic scholars of the Historical Jesus believe – with VERY good reason – that Jesus of Nazareth was an apocalyptic preacher whose proclamation of the imminent arrival of God’s Kingdom was mistaken.

    Former Baptist minister Clayton Sullivan put it this way: “Jesus’ kingdom preaching was predicated on a mistake. His fervent belief that a magnificent kingdom, primarily for Jews, would appear on Earth within his listeners’ lifetime was an error, an illusion, an unfulfilled hope.”

    The “Apostles of Christ” were mistaken, wrong, deluded about the imminent, 1st century arrival of the Kingdom of God.

    Just as wrong as any 19th century End-of-Days crackpot sect who wrongly predicted the Apocalypse back then too.

    What we can know about the Historical Jesus simply does not allow us to sustain the untenable idealization of him that Christianity demands.

  161. Reality Check has been very naughty again!

    Using unattributed, extended quotes from other people’s work is called plagiarism and is a form of theft.

    RC has cut & pasted swathes of an article “Is there a God” by Marilyn Adamson at everystudent dot com !

    Well it saves the inconvenience of having to actually THINK yourself, doesn’t it, RC?!

    I think an act of contrition is called for, naughty boy!

  162. Quite right Rob, well said… the ability to think for himself doesn’t seem to be one of “reality check’s” real forte. I suspect his mind-boggling cut’n’paste “evidence” is more for his benefit than ours, given his argument is so bloody weak and his overwhelming intelligence quotient of 121 is supposed to impress us somehow… I’ve seen road kill with better abilities to provide a rational argument that that that buffoon.

    His whole premise of the existence of a god, and by some brilliant leap of far fetched reasoning, therefore homosexuality is evil, is a stunning example of argumentum ad ignorantiam or even reductio ad absurdum.

    The only thing more pathetic than an evangelist is one trying to evangelise on a gay site, but as they say “Persistence is a fool’s best asset”.

  163. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 2:57am

    QUOTE: Is that because there’s something wring with your mind perhaps?

    Waht does “wring with your mind mean?”

  164. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:01am

    QUOTE: As for 2% of the population is gay, that’s a silly figure made up by “christians” such as yourself, to make yourself feel better.

    You obviously are ignorant of the truth. Kinsey in his work produced in 1957 said that homos made up 10% of the population from his research. That research has been debunked by every credible psychologist becvuase his case studies were mainly students and prisoners.

    All current research in many different countries show a homo population of between 1.2 and 2%. These figures were gained from the general population, not a narrow mindset such as Kinsey.

  165. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:06am

    QUOTE: “I would really like to see some proof for such a nonsensical pontification”

    I am still waiting for the proof.

  166. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:07am

    QUOTE: Good day to you. You are anything but a “reality check”, you sir, are a buffoon.

    Been to any good anger management courses lately?

  167. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:10am

    QUOTE: I may say, “demand” proof for things you don’t undestand,

    And you and your minions don’t give any which suggests to me you are nothing more than a windbag.

  168. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:15am

    QUOTE: You have proven you do ot understand science, your IQ is lower than the average, and you are trying to evangelise to an audience above your intellect.

    According to testing data, my I.Q. is 20 points above average. Sorry to hear about yours.

  169. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:38am

    QUOTE: In Brazil, over 2 million gay people marched in gay pride last year.

    Not very good at maths are you? I have just read a report where it said 400,000 took part. And we won’t mention the UK version that went into bankrupcy and Sydney ending up deep in debt.

  170. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:41am

    QUOTE: We’re growing in force at incredible speed, and your and your kind are dying. THAT, you silly fool, is my “reality check” to you.

    And my reality check to you is thaWe’re growing in force at incredible speed, and your and your kind are dying. THAT, you silly fool, is my “reality check” to you.t the latest report out of China is that 35,000 Chinese are converting to Christianity every day. In the Middle East, Muslims are converting by the hundreds to Christianity every day. Now who’s the silly fool?

  171. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:43am

    QUOTE: We’re growing in force at incredible speed, and your and your kind are dying. THAT, you silly fool, is my “reality check” to you.

    And my reality check to you is that we’re growing in force at incredible speed. The latest report out of China is that 35,000 Chinese are converting to Christianity every day. In the Middle East, Muslims are converting by the hundreds to Christianity every day. Now who’s the silly fool? Definitely not me.

    This replaces the one above.

  172. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:46am

    QUOTE: The majority of academic scholars of the Historical Jesus believe – with VERY good reason – that Jesus of Nazareth was an apocalyptic preacher whose proclamation of the imminent arrival of God’s Kingdom was mistaken.

    How many is the majority?

  173. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:48am

    QUOTE: Former Baptist minister Clayton Sullivan put it this way: “Jesus’ kingdom preaching was predicated on a mistake. His fervent belief that a magnificent kingdom, primarily for Jews, would appear on Earth within his listeners’ lifetime was an error, an illusion, an unfulfilled hope.”

    As a Baptist, I have never heard of Clayton Sullivan and when are you going to deal in the reality that one minister does not speak for all of Christendom.

  174. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:50am

    QUOTE: The “Apostles of Christ” were mistaken, wrong, deluded about the imminent, 1st century arrival of the Kingdom of God.

    This statement only shows your complete ignorance of the teaching of scripture.

  175. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:51am

    QUOTE: What we can know about the Historical Jesus simply does not allow us to sustain the untenable idealization of him that Christianity demands.

    Which by the sound of it is next to nothing.

  176. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:56am

    QUOTE: Using unattributed, extended quotes from other people’s work is called plagiarism and is a form of theft.

    I guess ignorance is bliss. Having worked as a Sales Manager of a book company, up to 10% can be copied and quoted. We in the christian world do not have the paranoia about plagiarism that you do because we want the good news of Jesus Christ to be spread to all and sundry.

    After all, why wouldn’t we. It is good news.

  177. Reality Check 5 May 2009, 3:58am

    QUOTE: It’s called “getting an adequate theological education”!

    A good idea as it would stop you making such stupid rants about Jesus and the bible. By the way, I have two theological degrees.

  178. What a insipidly dull person that RC muppet is.

    Still no evidence to any of his nonsense statements, just petty attacks at people who do actually know what they are talking about… and not even the imigination to come up with different insults, just the same lame ones, over and over and over again.

    Yawn.

    And answering question with a question…. oh, what a delightful display of intelligent THAT is. Wow, yes RC, you are SOOOO smart, how could I have not seen that. I can only assume his so called IQ, mediocre though it is, was assessed by a 10-question quiz in Cosmo magazine entitled “Do I have the smarts?”.

    I bore of this fool. Another one will come along soon enough, they all seem to love gay sites, these “enlightened” closet cases. What’s striking about these people, like Hank and “reality check” (slight misnomer on the last one) is that they all show the dazzling mental prowess of a coach roach. It really is astounding how these people can function in the real world. I suppose its why religious and dogmatic people tend to fair worse in edcuation and have a lower IQ’s, just like RC.

    And RC is living proof that theological degrees amount to f*ck all in the intellect department… maybe if he got a real degree rather than something he picked up off a Kellogg’s Cornflakes packet with 4 tokens and $5 P&P, he might impress us more. Theology degrees… what a joke. Its actually like saying I have a degree in studying nothing. He may as well get a degree in Harry Potter books, at least he’d be studying a book more popular than the bible.

    This guy is a buffoon. I like my religious freaks that at least have an above average IQ, not like this intellectual bottom feeder.

    I wont bother with this buffoon again.

    buf·foon
    noun.
    1. A clown; a jester: a court buffoon.
    2. A person given to clowning and joking.
    3. A ludicrous or bumbling person; a fool.
    4. Religious fool with lower than average IQ, usually called erroneously a “reality check” on gay websites to hide their internal homophobia.

  179. @ unReality Check

    So, you claim to be a very highly educated fellow…

    Exactly which qualifications, and from which educational institutions did you gain your degrees in:

    Middle-Eastern History
    Classical Greek (what? literature, history, language?)
    Theology(1) and
    Theology(2)?

    Frankly, I find it utterly inconceivable that someone possessing a modicum of theological education would:

    a) have such a poor grasp of Biblical literacy that he needed to ask what a quote from St. Paul was!!!

    b) not know that Jesus and the Apostles are portrayed in the Bible as mistakenly expecting the apocalypse in the 1st century!!!

    In a University Theology department, EVERYBODY knows that!!!

    [cf Mark 13:1-30 & parallels]

    Even the “great” Christian apologist CS Lewis admitted, later in life, that Jesus was mistaken about the arrival of the Kingdom!!!

    You’re living in a bubble of denial, man!

  180. @ unReality Check

    Here’s a link to one of many sites by preterist Evangelical Christians admitting that Jesus is clearly portrayed in the Gospels as expecting the Apocalypse etc in his hearer’s lifetime:

    www dot preterism dot info

    They argue, as Christians, that the prophecies were all fulfilled in the 1st century.

    More importantly, however, they ADMIT, that if the predictions attributed to Jesus were NOT fulfilled in the 1st century, then he was deluded, or in Biblical terms, a false prophet.

    They make it very clear that the common Evangelical expectation of a future Apocalypse is without scriptural foundation.

    It is, of course, without historical foundation too.

  181. Rob, you’re probably wasting your time with this man, he’s clearly some bitchy little idiot with internalised homophobia. Probably works in a supermarket packing shelves, or something equally deserved of a theology “degree”, and angry with his closet gay life in general. Your points are too intelectual for him, it why he never answers them, or anyone else’s points for that matter… just hurls a bit of his “peraonl beliefs” at you, like that NARTH 1.5% nonsense, with the vain hope you’re as stupid as him. You’re points are above his understanding threshold, Rob.

    He’ll only come back with 1) a cry for proof, which he gets but never able to understand or 2) a dull and witless remark or 3) a reference to his so called “higher intelligence”. Although given his near retarded lack of ability to make a logical argument here, I’m guessing he’s missing a decal point between the 12 and the 1 on his IQ. Personally I have two masters degrees in science, or what I like to call “real degrees”, in comparison I wouldn’t even lower myself to clean my shoes with a theology “degree”. Its basically toilet paper.

    Best let him off with his childish silliness, we all know he’s lost the argument. He’s probably lost his mind as well.

  182. Will, thanks for the support!

    Yes, its kind of obvious that RC isn’t really interested in anything resembling dialogue or even evidence.

    He seems to have such a fearful attachment to his tenuously-held beliefs that it resembles an addiction or obsessive-compulsive disorder. And there’s as little point talking to a religious addict when they’re “wired” as there is “talking to the drink” when an alcoholic’s on a drunk.

    Sometimes “talking to the Wall so that the Door might hear” can have salutary effects, though…

    I think I’ll take your advice, though, and turn my attention to more productive subjects now…

  183. Reality Check 6 May 2009, 3:43am

    QUOTE: Rob, you’re probably wasting your time with this man, he’s clearly some bitchy little idiot with internalised homophobia.

    You must be proud of your bitchiness.

    QUOTE: Probably works in a supermarket packing shelves,

    Pleased to see that you have such distain of homos who work at menial jobs.

    QUOTE: Your points are too intelectual for him,

    I am still waiting for the intellectual bit or is “probably working in a supermarket packing shelves” the intellectual part.

    QUOTE: hurls a bit of his “peraonl beliefs” at you, like that NARTH 1.5% nonsense,

    Just shows what a closet world you live in. I guess you have to to protect yourself from the fact that you are one big unhappy homo.

    QUOTE: You’re points are above his understanding threshold, Rob.

    What points??

    QUOTE: Although given his near retarded lack of ability to make a logical argument here,

    I am still waiting for your logical arguments.

    QUOTE: I’m guessing he’s missing a decal point between the 12 and the 1 on his IQ.

    Is this one of your “intelligent” bits??

    QUOTE: Best let him off with his childish silliness, we all know he’s lost the argument.

    What argument? I am still waiting for you to put one.

    QUOTE: He’s probably lost his mind as well.

    Your intelligence is astounding. You must have an I.Q of at least 20!!!

  184. Reality Check 6 May 2009, 3:46am

    QUOTE: Yes, its kind of obvious that RC isn’t really interested in anything resembling dialogue or even evidence.

    I am still waiting for both that gets beyond bitchy comments by deluded homos who probably have never put together a cohesive thought in their life.

  185. Yawn.

    How awfully dull and boring.

    Run along, a think a dog is using your theology “degrees” to line it kennel.

  186. Tony Lambert 6 May 2009, 7:01am

    Oh, quite right Will, reality Check is a distasteful little creature isn’t he?

    You can just imagine him sitting in his squalid little hovel, and lets face it ‘theologians’ do not win big on the career stakes, sweatily typing away on his computer like some dirty paedophile with a set of rosary beads.

    How awful for him. And how awful for us we have to endure his rather infantile, and somewhat senile, view of the universe.

    Its one thing to be a fool, but quite another thing to be an insufferable bore as well. That really is too much to be proud of, now isn’t it?

    Sigh. What a tragic individual Reality Check is. Insipid and tragic. May his god forgive him. Bless.

  187. Reality Check 6 May 2009, 8:26am

    QUOTE: Run along, a think a dog is using your theology “degrees” to line it kennel.

    Is this another example of your intelligent dialogue?

  188. Reality Check 6 May 2009, 8:36am

    QUOTE: Oh, quite right Will, reality Check is a distasteful little creature isn’t he?

    I wish I was then I could stoop down to your level of ignorance.

    QUOTE: You can just imagine him sitting in his squalid little hovel, and lets face it ‘theologians’ do not win big on the career stakes, sweatily typing away on his computer like some dirty paedophile with a set of rosary beads.

    As a teacher of I.T. I have never seen the need to type with rosary beads. I have ten fingers which I find quite sufficient.

    QUOTE: And how awful for us we have to endure his rather infantile, and somewhat senile, view of the universe.

    Your intelligence level is so minimal that you brain can’t seem to compute that you don’t have to endure anything as no one has said you have to read what is written here. That is choice you make although I am surprised that you don’t enjoy it as I have endeavoured to drag myself down to the infantile and senile level that you operate on if that is possible as infantile cannot be senile and senile cannot be infantile. But then with homos, anything is possible in their twisted and hate filled world.

    QUOTE: Its one thing to be a fool, but quite another thing to be an insufferable bore as well. That really is too much to be proud of, now isn’t it?

    Yes it is so I hope that you hang your head in shame at being both.

    QUOTE: Sigh. What a tragic individual Reality Check is. Insipid and tragic. May his god forgive him. Bless.

    He does all the time that is why I am not tragic or insipid because Jesus has promised me life abundant, not a life full of doubts, dissapointments and sexually transmitted diseases like homos experience.

  189. Tony Lambert 6 May 2009, 9:43am

    Oh, dear. Hit a nerve, have we?

    Jesus has promised you nothing, because you’re a worthless fool.

  190. Ha Ha Ha! What a total loser you are RC… We’re all laughing at you and your entry level 121 IQ.

  191. I read this with some amusement. RC is a howl… normally the religious nuts we get here are not as retarded or as bitchy as he is. What a treat!

    He must be impotent or sexually inadequate, its the only explanation for his little bitch-fest!

    Peter x

  192. Oh, totally agree Peter, there’s some deep seated “issues” (to put it mildly) going on in that vacuous mind of his.

    Don’t you just love the line “As a teacher of I.T”…. Does he think we’re all as dumb as him?? A theology degree wouldn’t equip you to use an ATM properly, let alone a computer. What a dirty little liar he is!

  193. Reality Check – you don’t deserve to use that name. But because you insist on using it nonetheless, I will provide you with a reality check:

    “You talk to God, you’re religious. God talks to you, you’re psychotic.”

    That, in itself, is a paradox; a contradiction. And it’s true.

    On another note, every human being has the ability to love someone of the same sex in the same way they love the opposite – this naturally doesn’t include lusting after them. That is a matter of taste; of desire. I know this from experience. Now, as a bisexual woman, I simply ask one thing: Why is it wrong to love someone unconditionally regardless of the body in which they were born? However, I do not require your answer. Just think before you speak.

    Oh, and by the way, you’re not better than everyone else. I find it amusing how you compliment your intelligence but fail to realize that the moment you end up alone with everyone here, and for everyone to survive one person had to die, it’d be you by default. That’s your own ignorance.

    Good day to you.

  194. A liar. A charlatan, A bitch. A nut. A fool.

    Such a complex personality you have there, reality check. Boring and detestable yes, but complex none the less for someone of your obvious menial state. That’s a professional opinion, by the way.

    Will, you’re a hoot!

    I’m off back to my “homos experience” now (what a laugh THAT one was! Who uses phrases like that unless they’re a mentally challenged 4 year old with emotional issues?!? Classic!) which includes my loving partner of 12 years, a fantastic job (as MY IQ is 149 and I have a Ph.D in medicine), my great friends (who think I’m rather witty, thankfully), and my rather wealthy life style (due to the afore mentioned REAL university education).

    Ciao!

    Peter x

  195. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 6:14am

    QUOTE: Jesus has promised you nothing, because you’re a worthless fool.

    Now that is what I call an intelligent commment…for a worthless fool.

  196. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 6:16am

    QUOTE: Ha Ha Ha! What a total loser you are RC… We’re all laughing at you and your entry level 121 IQ

    Now that is what I call an intelligent comment…for a total loser.

  197. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 6:17am

    QUOTE: He must be impotent or sexually inadequate, its the only explanation for his little bitch-fest!

    Now that is what I call an intelligent comment…for an impotent and sexually inadequate person.

  198. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 6:19am

    QUOTE: What a dirty little liar he is!

    That is what I call an intelligent comment…for a dirty little liar.

  199. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 6:20am

    QUOTE: “You talk to God, you’re religious. God talks to you, you’re psychotic.”

    That is a very intelligent comment…for somoene who is psychotic.

  200. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 6:22am

    QUOTE: A liar. A charlatan, A bitch. A nut. A fool.

    That is an intelligent comment…for a liar, charlatan, bitch, a nut and a fool.

  201. The little bitch is still going with his diva outbursts…. a reaction like that means one thing:- we hit a raw nerve. Which means he knows we’re right. WE know we’re right. And when he hits rock bottom, he finds a way to keep on digging, doesn’t he?

    Buffoon doesn’t do him justice.

  202. Oh, dear. This man is clearly imbalanced. Reality Check, you really need to get professional help.

  203. Ciaran McMahon 7 May 2009, 10:05am

    This guy has to be taking the piss…. he’s has all the mental prowess of a child, for heavens sake. If he’s for real, then Peter’s right, there is something seriously, seriously wrong with him. He’s trying to force us to believe he’s intelligence? What’s the point of that? Only stupid people do that. And his childish responses are more akin to a tantrum throwing teenage girl.

    But I think the “reality check” (???) is someone very troubled indeed. In fact, the only “sad homo” on this site, is most likely to be him.

    If this guy really DOES takes himself seriously, then pathetic is a word that doesn’t do him justice. (oh, and no doubt he’ll come back with a hilariously infantile remark like his previous ones with a “I know you are but what am I” level of witticism)

  204. He just keeps on going, that’s the amazing thing… each time getting more childish. Total closet case.

  205. Reality Check 7 May 2009, 10:10am

    QUOTE: “In fact, the only “sad homo” on this site, is most likely to be him.”

    Yeah, well… shutup! SHUTUP! You’re all sad homo’s. Sad! I’m not sad! Me’s smart. So very smart. Yeah? well, feck off the lot of you. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP.

  206. Reality Check 8 May 2009, 3:08am

    QUOTE: Buffoon doesn’t do him justice.

    Another one of those intelligent comments eh! Not bad for a buffoon.

  207. Reality Check 8 May 2009, 3:09am

    QUOTE: Oh, dear. This man is clearly imbalanced

    Another one of those intelligent comments eh!! Not bad for someone who is clearly imbalanced.

  208. Reality Check 8 May 2009, 3:11am

    QUOTE: he’s has all the mental prowess of a child,

    Another one of those intelligent comments eh!! Not bad for someone who has the mental prowess of a child!!!

  209. Reality Check 8 May 2009, 3:12am

    QUOTE: Total closet case.

    Another one if those intelligent comments eh? Not bad for a total closet case!!

  210. Reality Check 8 May 2009, 3:14am

    QUOTE: Yeah, well… shutup! SHUTUP! You’re all sad homo’s. Sad! I’m not sad! Me’s smart. So very smart. Yeah? well, feck off the lot of you. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP. SHUTUP.

    You are getting desperate purporting I would write junk like this!!!

  211. Well Ciaran, you were right, he DID comer back with a “I know you are but what am I” type of response. This is clearly the limits of his abilities, given he’s done it, what, twenty time or more so far? Most religious nuts of diminished capacity usually have an issue with diversity… I’m just surprised this also applies to the diversity of their intellect and wit.

    Peter is right, there’s something medically wrong with this one, I feel guilty now for laughing at him, like the way you would for laughing at a cripple.

    He’s broing, he’s not capable of much more then a hissy fit, and a pretty lame one at that, so I won’t bother responding to this closet homo again.

    Ciaran, Rob, Terry, Peter, its been fun! See you again!

  212. Agreed Will, this chap is a basket case…. the mental equivalent of my left foot. Lets not bother to read his silly childish response, I’m out of here!

    Ciao!

    P x

  213. Ciaran McMahon 8 May 2009, 6:43am

    I simply can’t believe that he actually did the “I know you are but what am I” kind of response!!!! Oh. My. God. Its like being on a playground with this guy?!? 121 IQ??? I think not. College education??? Definitely not!!! That much is obvious by his responses. How sad it must be to be that gormless and witless in life as he is.

    Anyway, boys, Will’s right, time to leave this one licking his wounds. I’ll see you boys later!

  214. “QUOTE: Total closet case. Another one if those intelligent comments eh? Not bad for a total closet case!!”

    Is that not the lamest response ever? LMAO! It is EXACTLY what you said Ciaran, in the absence of something witty and intelligent to say, just say the same thing back. LOL! We see some morons on this site, of the retarded religious types, but this guy is the best ever so far! Its exactly as you guys say, its like having a discussion with a screaming child! Well, if the meek will inherit the earth, then this muppet is on for one hell of a inheritance!

    But you guy are right, he’s kinda boring too, and empty vessels make the most noise, as they say. He’s just another closet case bitch who’s only outlet is a gay site to make him feel a little better about his sad life… “I’m really smart. I’m better than you, coz I’m not homo, blah, blah, blah”. Pathetic.

    I won’t be coming back to see his repetitive response, as it’ll be the EXACT same as the last 10. ‘Later bros!

  215. Reality Check 9 May 2009, 4:17am

    QUOTE: Peter is right, there’s something medically wrong with this one,

    Another one of those intelligent comments eh? Not bad for someone who is brain dead!!

  216. Reality Check 9 May 2009, 4:18am

    QUOTE: Agreed Will, this chap is a basket case

    An intelligent comment from someone who is a basket case. Wonders will never cease!!

  217. Reality Check 9 May 2009, 4:20am

    QIOTE: How sad it must be to be that gormless and witless in life as he is.

    Another intelligent comment from someone that is gormless and witless. Wonders will never cease!!

  218. Reality Check 9 May 2009, 4:24am

    QUOTE: he’s kinda boring too, and empty vessels make the most noise

    Another intelligent comment from someone who is a boring empty vessel. Wonders will never cease!!

  219. Tony Lambert 9 May 2009, 9:25am

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  220. Reality Check 10 May 2009, 4:00am

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to everyone believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek;

  221. Tony Lambert 10 May 2009, 3:25pm

    B O O O O O O O R I N G…… zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  222. Reality Check 11 May 2009, 5:56am

    1Pe 1:3 What a God we have! And how fortunate we are to have him, this Father of our Master Jesus! Because Jesus was raised from the dead, we’ve been given a brand-new life and have everything to live for,
    1Pe 1:4 including a future in heaven–and the future starts now!

  223. Folks, no more responses to this imbecile, please, witty as they all are.

    Any response only elicits a silly quote or a disturbingly childish attach. This man is clearly disturbed, and thinks that citing the bible makes him clever to somehow superior to us. Only god and his doctor knows why.

    Let this be the last civilised post, and then he can quote silly bible verses to his unhinged self as much as he likes, and no one will be here to see them…. just like all religion, he shouts into the darkness.

  224. Reality Check 12 May 2009, 1:16am

    Rom 14:11 For the scripture says, “As surely as I am the living God, says the Lord, everyone will kneel before me, and everyone will confess that I am God.

  225. Reality Check 13 May 2009, 1:50am

    Joh 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

  226. Reality Check 13 May 2009, 2:15am

    14 MILLION SEE ITALIAN POP STAR SING OF VICTORY OVER HOMOSEXUALITY

    By Matthew Cullinan Hoffman

    SANREMO, ITALY, February 20, 2009. Braving protests and controversy, Italian pop star Giuseppe Povia has performed his new song about conversion from the homosexual lifestyle at Italy’s prestigious Sanremo Festival.

    The song was performed during the festival’s opening on Wednesday, before an estimated audience of 14 million television viewers, and featured Povia with a female backup singer, a guitar band, a symphony orchestra, and the lyrics projected onto curtains in the background. The live audience strongly applauded the song at its conclusion, despite the controversy surrounding its theme.

    “Luca was Gay” recounts the liberation of a psychologically injured man from the homosexual lifestyle. “Luca”, who is believed to be based on the Italian Luca di Tolvi, develops homosexual attractions after his father leaves and his mother treats him as a substitute, creating confusion about his sexual identity.

    Delivered as a “soft” rap song that alternates between a spoken and sung account, Povia becomes the mouthpiece for “Luca”, who begins by saying: “Before I talk about the change in my sexuality, let me make something clear: If I believe in God, I can’t depend on human beings for my answers. Human thought is divided on this issue, so I didn’t look to psychologists, psychiatrists, clergymen, or scientists. My search took me into my own past, and when I dug down deep, I found answers to my questions about myself.”

    Luca’s parents separate and his father becomes an alcoholic. His mother becomes “obsessed” with him, “suffocates” him, and tells him “whatever you do, don’t get married.”

    “She was jealous of my girlfriends; it felt so unhealthy. And I was more confused than ever about who I was,” sings Povia, in Luca’s name.

    Eventually Luca finds himself with homosexual attractions as he seeks the affirmation he never received from his father, while trying to avoid disappointing his mother with a female rival. He enters into sexual relationships with older men.

    “I was looking for my father in all those men. I went with them because I didn’t want to betray my mother,” Povia sings. He also alludes to the superficiality of homosexual relationships, having Luca say, “I was with a man for four years. Sometimes there was love and sometimes only deception. We cheated on each other constantly.”

    However, Luca finally finds a woman with whom he can speak about his pain. “I was still searching for my truth, for the kind of love that would last forever. Then one night I met her at a party. She was just there with a lot of other people. She didn’t have anything to do with what I was going through, but she listened, she laid me bare, she understood. All I remember is: the next day, I missed her.”

    Luca resolves his problems and leaves the homosexual lifestyle for his new love, and now has children. He says that he forgives his parents.

    “Dad, I’ve forgiven you even though you left us for good,” sings Povia. “Mom, I think about you all the time and I’ve never stopped caring. Sometimes I still see your face, but I’m a father now, and my heart belongs to the only woman I’ve ever truly loved.”

    The stanzas are interlaced with the chorus, “Luca was gay but now he’s with her. When Luca speaks, he holds his heart in his hand. Luca says: Today I am a different man.”

    The success of the song, which has now been viewed over 100,000 times on the station’s website, has been achieved in spite of protests by Italian homosexual groups, led by “Arcigay,” whose leader has denounced Povia for promoting “homophobia” (yawn!!)

    Italian comedian Roberto Benigni, who opened the Festival with a monologue, also took jabs at Povia, claiming that “homosexuality isn’t a sin” and that homosexuals have been persecuted historically “because they love someone.” He, too, received applause from the audience.

    However, Paolo Bonolis, the artistic director and presenter of this year’s edition of the Sanremo Festival defended the song, asserting that it did not “take sides” but just “told a story.”

    The Sanremo Festival has been held every year in Sanremo, Italy since 1951, and is believed to be the inspiration for the Eurovision Song Contest. The winner of the Sanremo Festival, yet to be decided, will be Italy’s de facto representative in the Eurovision Song Contest, according to tradition.

    The 36-year-old Povia won the Sanremo Festival in 2006 with his song, “I’d like to have the bill” and has had several platinum and gold hits in Italy. He has reportedly told the Catholic publication Il Giornale that he himself “toyed” with homosexual behaviour when he was younger, but later “came out of it.” He is an advocate of children’s rights and participates often in charitable events, according to his website.

  227. Reality Check 15 May 2009, 8:02am

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

  228. Reality Check 22 May 2009, 7:13am

    Joh 6:9 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Queer, that whoever believes in Homosexuality should not perish but have everlasting life 2with fabulous outfits and amazing living conditions.

  229. Reality Check 25 May 2009, 7:30am

    5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
    Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

  230. Reality Check 26 May 2009, 8:45am

    5:10 Blessed are the homosexuals which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye homosexuals, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
    Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding gay: for great is your reward in Heaven, or any other gay bar: for so persecuted they the fabulous queers which were before you.

  231. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 27 May 2009, 10:31am

    Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The person who believes in me, even though he’s a fabulous queer, will live.

    Joh 11:26 Indeed, everyone who lives like a proud queer will never die, or at least be fabulous to the end!

    Jesus was gay. He loved the company of his “sailor” friends. He even made those crown of thorns look fabulous!

  232. Reality Check 29 May 2009, 10:37am

    “In this was manifested the gay love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten queer Son into the world, that we might live through Him and party with him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us man to man, and sent His homosexual Son to be the satisfaction for our fabulousness.”

    ~John 4:19~

  233. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 2 Jun 2009, 3:12am

    “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him and be with him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the saviour for our sins.”

    ~John 4:19~

  234. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 2 Jun 2009, 3:16am

    Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The person who believes in me, even though he dies, will live.

    Joh 11:26 Indeed, everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.

    Jesus was the son of God. He loved the company of his disciples.

  235. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 2 Jun 2009, 3:18am

    5:10 Blessed are the peacemakers which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 5:11 Blessed are you when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
    Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven, for persecution by homosexuals who don’t like the truth is inevitable.

  236. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 2 Jun 2009, 3:20am

    Joh 6:9 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life, but not for the militant homosexual who is proud if his ignorance.

  237. Reality Check 2 Jun 2009, 6:42am

    5:10 Blessed are the homosexuals which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven, and all the other fabulous stuff.

    Mat 5:11 Blessed are you gay men when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake, and the sake of being fucking fabulous.

    Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven, for persecution by religious nuts who don’t like the truth is inevitable.

  238. will you stop……………………it’s really non sense using word of god….be respectful……if you have that….i do respect your idea rights and others…but shame on you. i hate people who uses the name of god for stupidity……

  239. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 3 Jun 2009, 2:48am

    5:10 Blessed are the non homosexuals who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Mat 5:11 Blessed are you happy men when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely.

    Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven, for persecution by homosexuals who don’t like the truth is inevitable.

  240. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 3 Jun 2009, 4:01pm

    Jesus said: In my Father’s house are many beds; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a big gay party for you… And I will come back and take you from behind to be with me that you may also be gay like I am – John 14:2-3

  241. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 3 Jun 2009, 4:03pm

    The Lord is faithful, like a gay couple, and will give you strength, and will protect you from the Evil One called reality Check – 2 Thessalonians 3:3

  242. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 4 Jun 2009, 4:17am

    Jesus said: In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a big non-gay party for you… And I will come back and take you to be with me that you may also be non-gay like I am – John 14:2-3

  243. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 4 Jun 2009, 4:19am

    The Lord is faithful, unlike a gay couple, and will give you strength, and will protect you from the Evil One called the gaystapo – 2 Thessalonians 3:3

  244. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 4 Jun 2009, 6:42am

    I f*cking hate the lot of your queers, because I’m a christian. So stop being mean to me, I’m allowed to be a complete bitchy idiot in the name of the lord. So shut ypo the lot of you, I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right.

  245. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 4 Jun 2009, 6:42am

    The Bible, Malachi 2:15
    You were united to your wife/husband by the Lord. In God’s wise plan, when you gay married, the two of you became one person in his sight… because you can now “gay marry” in 5 EU countries and 6 states in the USA!

    And more every year!

    Praise the lord! Praise the lord!

  246. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 5 Jun 2009, 2:06am

    I love all the homos, because I’m a christian and because Christ loves you too. So keep being nice to me, as I’m allowed to be kind and caring in the name of the lord. So come to me all you that are weary and heavy laden and find the right way to life I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right. I’m right.

  247. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 5 Jun 2009, 6:46am

    “Be on your guard against false prophets called Archdeacon, who come to you in breeders’s clothing but underneath are homosexuals on the prowl. You will know them by their stupid and witless deeds. Do you ever pick queers from gay bushes, or boys from gay bars? Never! Lies. Any sound gay good fruit, while a decayed christian bears bad fruit.”(Matt 7:15-17)

  248. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 5 Jun 2009, 7:00am

    Mark 3:13-35 “Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those gays he wanted, and they CAME on him. He appointed twelve–designating them apostles queers for they were his lovers– that they might be with him in bed and that he might send them out to gay bars….”

    This is the word of the lord, the gayest god of all the known gods.

  249. Tiglathpileser 10 Jun 2009, 7:02am

    HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE

    Radical Gay Activists Seek to Intimidate Christians
    Since Nov. 4, Christians have reported increased incidences of church vandalism and sometimes-violent attacks for their support of traditional marriage.

    The Nov. 4 passage of constitutional amendments banning gay marriage in California, Arizona and Florida has evoked a sometimes-violent response from radical gay activists who have vandalized churches, mobbed intercessors and disrupted a worship service in Michigan.

    Intercessors with a house of prayer in San Francisco said they feared they might be killed Friday night during a routine prayer walk through the area’s Castro district, which has a large gay community. They said a crowd who thought they were marriage amendment demonstrators shouted lewd remarks, pushed them, threw hot coffee on their faces and threatened the prayer group leader with death.

    One man reportedly hit an intercessor on the head with her Bible before shoving her to the ground and kicking her. Before police arrived, another house of prayer member said someone repeatedly tried to pull his pants down.

  250. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 10 Jun 2009, 8:43am

    HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE

    Radical christian Activists Seek to Intimidate innocent gays.

    Since 100 AD, gays have reported increased incidences of gay website vandalism and sometimes-violent attacks for their support of their own right to exist in peace.

    The Nov. 4 passage of constitutional amendments banning gay marriage in California, Arizona and Florida has evoked a sometimes arrogant response from radical christian activists who have vandalized gay websites, mobbed peaceful price marches and disrupted a friends chatting in a gay bar in Michigan.

    Gays with a bar in San Francisco said they feared they might be killed Friday night during a routine walk through the area’s Castro district, which is usually prayed upon by a large religious community. They said a cristians who thought they were destroying society and shouted lewd remarks, pushed them, threw hot coffee on their faces and threatened the gay group leader with death.

    One man reportedly hit an homosexual on the head with her Bible before shoving him to the ground and kicking him. Before police arrived, another gay bar member said someone repeatedly tried to pull his pants down. The dirty christian bastards.

  251. Tiglathpileser 11 Jun 2009, 7:03am

    Radical christian Activists Seek to Intimidate innocent gays, and the rest of the rubbish!!!

    So childish and immature. Shows without doubt that you are your own worst enemies.

  252. Archdeacon Brian Hurtin 11 Jun 2009, 8:22am

    Christian beliefs are so childish and immature. Shows without doubt that you are your own worst enemies.

  253. Tiglathpileser 23 Jun 2009, 6:31am

    [1.Christian beliefs are so childish and immature. Shows without doubt that you are your own worst enemies.
    Comment by Archdeacon Brian Hurtin — June 11, 2009.

    Run out of intelligent ideas by the looks of things. They do say though that imitation is the highest form of flattery. Thank you Brian. I notice that when you don’t have a sensible response to people who disagree with you, you resort to childish gibberish.

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