This is a very useful conference, despite all the anger and aggression of homosexual activists. The people who speak out on it are heroes! Many political campaigns were conducted, much aggression has been dumped on people dealing with this difficult issue, but the truth remains – homosexduality is an illness and very often those who are affected by it do not want to admit it, thus remaining ‘in the filth’. It is so sad that people caught in homosexuality are not brave enough to admit it.
Now, dump your hatred on me again! Usual stuff.
Can anyone in this whole universe please tell me what a ‘Gay Cure’ is? and is there such a thing as a ‘Streaght Cure?’ These things I ponder in my heart, especially long winter nights. They ask in the article if you suffer from SSA? To Me SSA is as natural and normal as peaches and cream. Excuse me, I need a lay down!
Wow, these people have invented the disease so now they can find the cure…
Guys, go home. Everyone’s fine.
Has anyone ever tried to figure out what the world would look like if we didn’t make such a fuss about our sexuality? It might be a better place if we spend our energy on more urgents matters then who is attracted to whom.
Oh, my – you know what?! I don’t f*cking get it. Why these bigots are sooo obsessed with “curing” homos from their “pathology”? I mean, there are huge problems in the world and those who really need health care are ignored, right? But they don’t seem to ever realize it.
It’s ironic also that this psychiatrist who is also a PhD, apparently forgets all about scientific evidences and bases his theory in religion. What does religion has to do with it? Is it supposed to cure illnesses?
Saying that homosexuality is a disease is to homophobia what holocaust denial is to anti-semitism.
Duke would truly be pissed off if we blogged on his religion’s sites, bad mothing it.
why come here when you know we don’t want your comments? We can ignore you but you’re really not wanted.
Is it so you can feel holy and virtuous? Is it so you can claim you’re preaching the gospel? Is it because you enjoy pissing us off from anonymity – would you do it face to face? Or is it that you get vicarious pleasure from hanging roung the gheys!!?
Duke you are what is known as an internet troll:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
It is very unfortunate that someone has to bear the vulgar name ‘Duke’ and for that to be coupled with the serious mental illness from which the bearer suffers is beyond sympathy.
*head desk* we don’t WANT “curing”, thanks. depressing!
Peterson Toscano disproves everything these people and Duke claims.
Is there any organized response from the LGBTQ community about this conference? Any rallies, actions or press conferences to counter the misinformation at the event? I will be in London on Friday, and as someone who endured nearly two decades of ex-gay treatment, I would love to get involved with others in standing up as a public witness against these sorts of unnecessary and often harmful treatments.
OK now we need to organise a demo against this. Duke go f–k yourself u homo hating c–t.
“Duke”, what a pity -for you- that your lies are so overwhelmingly evident that there is no need to answer. The battle to deem homosexuality as an illness is already lost. Only religious morons try to get grasp of those fascist ideas.
Duke, it is beyond dispute that SSA is natural and cannot be changed. All the reserach proves this. It is so sad that bigoted christianists, caught in the lies of religion, are not brave enough to admit it. But then look how long it took christianists to admit that the world wasn’t flat. Religion relies on the gullibility of stupid people to spread its lies and hate.
I hope there’s an appropriate response. This conference may not be much of a direct danger to us (except for any effects it has on public opinion of the LGBT community), but this sort of proselytising is very dangerous for young gay people who may be underinformed and confused about their sexuality. The LGBT organisations need to make sure they’re there to steer these kids in a healthy direction and tell them where they can get REAL help.
Duke, welcome to the community. We understand you need time to deal with your issues, and I hope you come to accept yourself as you are one day, and find peace. Denial is unhealthy in the long run.
why does pink news publish comments by the likes of Duke. Surely giving an open space to people like this is as homophobic as some of the articles that we read about on here. Shame on you pink news. Duke has the daily mail for his rants. Leave it to them. They have that side of things covered!
I don’t understand why this aspect of the conference is permitted to take place in the UK. Surely it’s inciting hatred? There is no ‘gay cure’ because being gay isn’t an illness, any more than being straight.
Why should the international speakers at this be allowed into the UK?
1 in 4 Brits believes homosexuality should be illegal. (Observer newspapers survey, October 2008.)
The activities of this bunch of religious loons may increase the number.
Their activities are deeply homophobic and deeply offensive. We should take action against them. One look at that sad little man’s face and you can see he’s got problems. The beard no doubt makes him feel like he’s a red-blooded heterosexual man. So what we need are lots of big butch bearded men to loudly protest outside the hall where these little prats are meeting.
Duke – are you heterosexual? Are you comfortable with your sexuality? Why are you so interested in gay news?
9-23 Marsham Street
London SW1P 3DW
Telephone: 020 7222 9191
Fax: 020 7233 1922
These people are meant to be holding this conference. Time to email them to tell them that unless they confirm that they will not be renting their premises for the promotion of quackery and hatred that there may be protests.
Are you aware of the peer reviewed scientific research showing that men expressing hate agaist LGBT people were the ones who got errections when, as part of the experiment, they were shown gay porn?
And hundreds of years before this, are you also aware of what Shakespeare knew intuitively about people who protest too much?
With your posting, you have inadvertently told the world much about yourself which only you think you are hiding from others.
PS. And Freud would have loved a typo like “homosexduality”.
Does anyone see what calling homosexuality a disease or mental illness could lead to? Getting gassed in some concentration camp, that’s where! The American Psychiatric Association is still up to it’s old tricks, too I see. Watch “Psychiatry: An Industry of Death” to see what I mean. And talk about repeating history…..here come the pink triangle armbands and the concentration camps. Yep, the religious right and psychiatry….eliminating those they don’t see fit for life, the bastards..
And yet these ex-gay ministry people won’t take responsibility for the thousands of LGBT people whose heads they have screwed up so badly, that they often commit suicide.
If they had one single ounce of “christian” decency, then they would stop screwing people up by claiming to be able to “cure” them. The huge volume of medical evidence of the damage they do should be proof enough to anyone of this.
Well Peterson, I’m up for a demo if anyone else is looking to give these quack scientists a welcome.
Anyone else up for going to picket this hate filled crap?
Yes, Duke, you’re right: homosexuality is an illness. Last week it made me bleed; yesterday morning it made me vomit; I was on the loo with it half the night; and this morning it brought me out in boils. One of my uncles had it and he’s been dead for years now, so there’s proof for you.
Crikey ^^^, Say it as it is! x
I am certianly up for a protest against this NARTH group of quackery.
I would love for there to be a protest at this. Personally I would like a quiet, peaceful, non-shouting, non-violent protest with placards speaking a message. I’m going to ask around and see if anybody has planned a protest and post information back here if I find anything – if not we should plan something. If anyone can find out anything else about the times/details of the conference (and fact-check this story so we know it is relevant to protest) that would help…
Simon – I don’t think the Emmanuel Centre is remotely bothered. They happen to be about 250 metres away from the co-sponsors of this event, CARE
(Co-sponsors are CARE [Christian Action Research and Education], a crackpot organization fronted by Lyndon Bowring – these poeple I think, are responsible for the massive delay in repealing Clause 28. CARE spend their time placing graduates and trainees in the media and government. e.g. researchers for MPs; one of their placements is, or was, the producer for BBC radio 2′s Jeremy Vine show. Just thought you’d like to know….more info Google ‘CARE – christian lobbyists worming their way into Uks corridors of power Independent newspaper, 2000′.)
The Emmanuel Cente is a megachurch, home to the evangelical Emmanuel Church. Their doctrinal basis is interesting – they are looking forward to the imminent return of Jesus Christ (my feeling is, they are indeed quite mentally ‘Left Behind’ as to look forward to the end of the world…) Other users of its venue include Conservative Christian Fellowship, the Cameron-endorsed fanatical wing of the tory party, whose magazine spouts plenty of homophobic stuff – see it on line
*** Here is a golden oportunity for those believers who genuinely think Christianity is about compassion, and the Golden Rule, to make yourselves heard. You have no hesitation, for instance, condemning a harmless Oxford Professor who writes a book about Delusions;
But anything less than outright condemnation of this blatant attempt to introduce ex-gay misery to the UK will be seen as cowardice, if not collaboration. Over to you, Mr Williams. (Actually, Lambeth Palace is about 800 metres from this conference, Archbishop – come on down and show some solidarity.)
John K, I agree. Although many of us feel justified anger about this conference, (it taps into some of the outrages we have endured in our own lives), I believe that some of the event organizers would LOVE to see an angry mob out front of the church. Some of these groups often play the martyr, at least in the United States. Instead I think we can offer a thoughtful, peaceful and informed direct response that will prove effective. Peaceful direct non-violent action can have real teeth in it.
eleanargh, you are right, this is a Golden Opportunity for LGBTQ-affirming faith community and leaders to stand up and show their support and affirmation for LGBTQ people. Faith without action is dead.
Peterson I agree that peaceful, direct, non-violent action is essential if we are to mobilise support from other groups . . . I think there will be many secular and faith groups in the UK who will be shocked by such a conference.
You can’t answer hate with more hate. And you can’t answer fear with more fear. But you can answer a unity against LGBT rights with a broad unity for LGBT rights. All natural allies of the rights, freedom and dignity of LGBT people must unite in a common cause, whether those people are atheists or people of faith who feel homophobia is the vile vice it is. LGBT people are natural and perfectly decent just as they are. But for the both the anti-LGBT dogmatists and the LGBT people who anger at them, hate and fear are choices, and terrible vices upon which reason can only crumble.
“EXODUS” and “LOVE WON OUT” frequently bring their dog-and-pony show to 1st Assembly of God “church” in Mission Valley (San Diego California USA). The local Metropolitan Community Church in coordination with the local Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, etc. Center operates a suicide hotline whenever they come to town, for the frightened and confused teens they torture with visions of hell and genital electro-shock treatments (their fondness for that is shared with the Mormons of the “EVERGREEN PROJECT” … those scenes in “Latter Days” were taken from actual events!).
They are among the most harmful, hateful human (?) beings on the planet.
No-one cares about your sad little perverted gay lives so stop whining . You are all severely mentally Ill and need to take your anti-gay medication.
These SLIMEY SLUGS like ‘anon’ seem to SLITHER around every where.
These SLIMEY SLUGS like ‘anon’ seem to SLITHER around every where.
Yes, the Evergreen Project is…utterly ridiculous and cynical. Affirmation: Gay & Lesbian Mormons are completely opposed to them. There needs to be a fundamental cultural shift (partially already happening, though at a snail’s pace) for most core demographic Mormons to accept LGBT nature as something that isn’t a vice. It was slightly helpful when the Church a couple years ago said that “it’s probably not a choice and probably can’t be changed”, but at that time they had no better option than to treat LGBT people as if they were tragic sufferers of a disease. *sigh* That’s still a million times better than how things were a few decades ago when some influential people were afraid that being LGBT was a communicable disease that someone could catch through casual physical contact in hallways. It’s not remotely an ideal situation now, but it’s getting…so, so slowly better. I’ll probably be old and grey before gay Mormons have full respect and dignity. Entire generations of older people with unshakably dogmatic beliefs will have to gradually pass away first. And that’s often how it is – social change doesn’t happen in the older generations who cling to old ways to their graves, but mainly just in the younger ones does the actual change take root.
If homsexuality is a mental illness, then why are you so full of bile against the sufferers of that illness.?
Are you similarly so full of venom against, say, a schizophrenic, or a depressive?
Where’s your compassion for the sick?
I think you are actually raging at yourself for seeing therein that which you do not understand, are therefore fearful of and thus are angry at.
@ AdrianT re 31. – Very interesting to read all that – thank you.
Regarding protests, I agree that a peaceful one is better as people who are bent on inciting hatred like conflict. It really throws them to be met with compassion and sympathy. And it REALLY pisses them off to suggest they have issues about their own sexuality.
I still wish they’d f*ck off though. This isn’t free speech, it’s hate speech. Would a conference that promised to ‘turn people white’ be allowed? Of course not. It’s ignorant, offensive and vile bigotry, just like this conference. Every time I read things like this I become less and less interested in religion. You’d think that the moderate voices in Christianity would stand up and condemn this conference, if only for the protection of their religion from such hate-filled lunatics.
Last week two of my friends told me their family had wanted to take them to a psyhiatrist when they came out to them a few months ago. I was totally shocked, I really did not think this could still happen. I urge you all to think of all the young people out there who are still uncertain about how they could live a fulfilling life as LGBT people, think of their suffering and the impact of such bogus propaganda on their lives.
I think a protest is an absolute must in a situation like this and I also think that it should be a very peaceful and dignified one. Maybe a few people who had been put through the ordeal of ex-gay therapy could say a few words about the negative effect it had on their lives and it would be important to get media coverage for their stories.
Go find Papa Ratzi who, like you, is a self-hating old queen and ‘get it on’.
I knew the minute that that old man walked out on to the balcony at St.Peter’s in Rome, just after his elevation to the Pontificate, that we had an old girl in charge, an opinion confirmed every step along his way since.
I am an old girl (looks like a lorry driver/dances like Fonteyn) and know another old girl when I see one…and boy!! is THAT one..!
How about you?.
Five minutes with you, or less probably, since you are so vehemently anti, and I would have you sussed; I am getting on for 70 and have had years ‘sussing’.
I know now my step-father was, but it, (homosexuality) was a criminal offence and he was from the working class N.E. of England….no chance there.
I know now that at least 2 of the priests, now deceased, in my local church, near Blackpool, Lancs. U.K., were so, when I was an altar-boy there in the early 50′s.
I know now that at least 3 of the teaching priests in the Catholic religious order in which I was a student, in my teens were homosexual.
Later in life, I had a boy-’off’ bar in Thailand before, during and after the first Gulf war and some of my clients were Catholic priests on sabbatical and in one case, the (old) man was very significantly higher up the ecclesiatical ladder in his South American country and had travelled to Thailand, dumping the power dressing along the way, the silken, pointy hat and the lace dress, to experience his life-long ‘dream’… “un poco de calor antes de morir…!”
I could go on.
I am not gay; I am homosexual; there is a difference.
I knew I was different to the other boys when I was 5 or 6 as far back as the 1940′s.
Many men also experience these feelings but somehow manage to marry and have kids and become grandfathers.
They later change their ways and decide that a gay lifestyle is better for them, all facilitated by the repeal of the legislation, in the 70′s (was it…?).
I cannot answer for them; that is up to them.
I cannot do that (change).
I have never been with a woman.
I do not even see them and never have, not for one tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a second, not even as a teenager.
There was my mum and her mum and that was it.
Other girls I thought, would become other boys’ mums, in time.
“That must be what ‘other’ girls are for!!..” – I thought.
But I did not know how.. and had no interest in finding out.
Ah! the simple logic of it..!
From 7/8/9 years old onwards, I was quite happy staring at Barry or Tommy, Andrew or….et seq…!
I was quite happy.!
But what was this with these ‘girls’…?
Of course, the nuns and Irish religious brothers of the Christian schools never told us!!
Indeed as a teenager, I used to wonder what all the other lads saw and wanted to see when they would rush to the boundary wall of our and the adjoining Catholic girls’ grammar schools at break/lunch times and who all but broke their (own) necks in the rush..!!
THEY knew, boy!!.. did THEY..!
And why did they want to sit with these girls at the back of the bus at 4pm after school?
I was more concerned with whether I would sit with Barry or Tom or whether ‘the love of my life’ (at 12..!!) would be getting the bus at all or had he come on his bike…in which case…oh the agony of it all…!
The ignorance of it all!
So, far from it being an illness, being the way I am is as natural and as God-given as the “flowers that bloom in the Spring tra-la”..!
And change me and the millions like me?
You might as well try to make the rivers flow uphill, make the winds cease and stop the earth rotating.
I would like 5 minutes with this Ph.D wallah, too…just 5 minutes…just gimme 5 minutes..!
And by the way, in what I have related above is the reason why there is the celibacy rule in the Catholic Church and THAT did not occur to me until recently.
But that is another story.
I’ll run it by you all some time.
Bore you all to death some more…!
Mebbeez I’ll write a book..?!
“Catholic Ramblings…!” how’s about that…?
I certainly ramble…!
Sorry about that..!
Everyone, I offer the following to you as a template or guide for your emails to
To the Management,
9-23 Marsham Street
London SW1P 3DW
Dear Sir or Madam,
We understand that there is to be a meeting on your premises of people defying equality legislation in this country. We understand that they intend to hold a conference at which they will discuss methods by which homosexuality “can” be “removed” from people, i.e. methods by which people “can” be “cured” of their homosexual nature.
The premise of these individuals therefore is quite clearly that homosexuality is an illness and a sickness and that all homosexual people, whether lesbian or gay, are mentally ill. This premise defies equality legislation defined in law in the United Kingdom and Europe and which makes it illegal for the vast number of homosexual people in this country not to be treated with respect and equality.
Please advise the individuals concerned that you will not now offer them any accommodation for their activities as you understand that their purpose offers great offence to the homosexual population of the United Kingdom.
If the planned conference does go ahead on your premises, we will of course need to gather and demonstrate our offence at your building on the day.
The venue’s email address (courtesy of Simon is:
Please write immediately, if you haven’t already done so.
I may just add: of course protests should be a. non-violent (goes without saying) b. civil.
But also, I’m not going to love my enemies – don’t do that on my account at least. It’s hypocrisy and lets the victims of this money-making racket down. To me, this is both psychologically damaging, and it’s being run by pickpockets looking to fleece LGBT believers. Victims of such fraud know their rights, and be made aware of the dangers, the low rate of success and possibly the legal help made available to them.
While we should not show anger, we can and must show contempt, ridicule.
Where’s ‘Roger Cook from Central Television’ when you need him… :-)
Just a thought. “Duke” and “Anon” think they are stirring things up by visiting this gay website and saying spiteful things to us. However, whether they like it or not each time they visit this site they absorb a smidgeon of liberal awareness, they have their ridiculous brainwashed ideas challenged, and the more they keep visiting the closer they come to seeing that the religions and gods of this planet are nothing but a lot of hocus-pocus baloney.
Keep visiting guys. Your cure lies in your repeatedly coming back to OUR “church”!
The 2 individuals mentioned in the story are Joseph Nicolosi and Jeffrey Satinover are both American. Is it the Home Secretary who will grant them a visa to enter Britain. Well how about contacting Jacqui Smith and requesting that these 2 individuals be denied visas as this conference could be regarded as incitement to hatred and therefore by allowing them enter the UK she is allowing them to commit crimes. Contact her on firstname.lastname@example.org
Message for Keith of Salford.
Keith, I have been quietly following your messages for some time. You are 100% right in your accusations against the Catholic Church. However, I do think you need to temper your focus on the Catholic Church alone. Most of your observations of those who dominate the Catholic Church can be transferred to those who organize any religion, Christian or otherwise. Also, I note you keep apologising for your stance against the Catholic Church: don’t. There’s absolutely no need. You’re not being outrageous: there are thousands and thousands of us who know and believe exactly as you. Look at the membership of the UK’s National Secular Society, for example. So, as I say, do temper your focus on the Catholic Church, draw back, and see that the anti-gay elements of the Catholic Church are just as worthy of hatred and detestation as the anti-gay elements of the BNP and all sorts of other groups of bigoted individuals.
Jettison any inclinations towards belief in any god that you may still have in your system and go and join the National Secular Society or The British Humanist Society, or if you want to stay with homosexuals then join the Gay Humanist Society. You’ll probably be amazed to make friends with dozens of people who feel exactly the same as you.
I wish I lived in London – I would love to take part in a peaceful protest.
Excellent idea, Simon. Thank you again!
Folks, a suggested letter for you to use and send immediately to the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith:
Dear Jacqui Smith.
It is understood that a conference advocating techniques to “cure” people of homosexuality is to be held by the Anglican Mainstream Organisation in London next weekend.
This conference flies openly in the face of equality legislation now firmly in place here in the United Kingdom.
It is understood that the two individuals scheduled to lead this conference are Joseph Nicolosi and Jeffrey Satinover, both believed to be American. We urge you to immediately put in place arrangements to refuse them permission to enter Britain.
Joseph Nicolosi is an advocate and practictioner of “reparative therapy”, the purpose of which is assist people in curing themselves of homosexuality. The therapy works on the assumption that homosexuality is a disease or mental illness that must be treated.
Jeffrey Satinover is understood to have stated in 2005 that sexual orientation is “a fiction” and that it is therefore ludicrous to allow civil rights for a group of people whose condition “does not exist”.
This conference, therefore, is clearly intended as a platform for the encouragement of homophobic ideas and beliefs and for the undertaking of homophobic action, i.e., the “curing” of homosexual people.
The intentions of the planned conference do not conform with UK and European equality legislation which makes it illegal for the vast number of homosexual people in this country, at least, not to be treated with respect and full equality.
Please refuse entry to Joseph Nicolosi and Jeffrey Satinover and do all you are able to discourage the planned “conference”.
It is currently understood that the conference is to be held at: The Emmanuel Centre, 9-23 Marsham Street, London SW1P 3DW.
Duke = gay
Great email, Phil P – thank you. I’m using that as a template, but I’m also stressing that just because their message is dressed up in a ‘caring’ fashion doesn’t make it any less hate-filled. I’m worried that the Home Secretary will just look at the innocuous, bland page on their website (as compared to the loony crap on the Westboro Church one, for example) and think that they’re OK because they’ve dressed their hatred up in ‘caring’ talk.
Phil P – you’re right, and every time ‘Duke’ and ‘Anon’ come and talk crap here they’re also reminding us there are still stupid people around thus encouraging and inspiring us more to take action against them. Ha! They lose.
Hmm, no news of any protest planned already, but clearly lots of interest for it. Has anyone found any information about the conference directly – what times it’s running, when people might be arriving, etc?
Eleanargh – “Friday and Saturday, 24th and 25th April, 2009, 9.30 am – 5.30 pm
Central London venue”
(Why won’t Pink News let me put links on here or am I being stupid?)
Oh yeah, thanks Iris, I didn’t really read very thoroughly did I :p
Ohhh it’s annoying when you submit a comment and forget to type the cryptic words in the box and it won’t let you resubmit…
Anyway thanks Iris, I didn’t really read very thoroughly did I :p
for details of the event, google Anglican Mainstream and once on their site, look at the right hand menu, there is a link to the Sex & the City Conference.
Thank you Zefrog! I’m so lazy with the googling today.
Any of you who frequent other LGBT sites should make sure your friends there know about this protest. The more the merrier! Ah, I wish I could come, but I don’t have the cash to travel to London right now.
I have created a facebook group to try and organise a protest. feel free to join and pass on to your friends. thanks.
Well done Zefrog, you’re more organised than I (well, I am trying to keep up the pretense of ‘working’ at work). Shall join and share.
Isn’t it defamatory to call gays intrinsically mentally ill, disordered etc?
In the UK: a member of a group or class of people can sue in relation to a defamatory allegation referring to the group as a whole, if the group is sufficiently small that the allegation would be understood to refer to him or her personally.
If we know they’re on their way over to make defamatory claims about us, maybe Stonewall could get an injunction in advance?
Why are some individuals or groups so obsessed with what other people do sexually? These characters would have policing of the bedroom if they could get away with it. Are they so concerned with other prohibitions listed in the old testament? No of course not. They seem to be preoccupied with the sex life of other people:-)
I have just been to visit ‘Old Gay Cure’ himself. He first asked me: “Are you a practicing Homosexual?” I replyed, “No, I’m really quite good at it now!” Then He kept squeezing my ass saying: “I like a lot of meat on the bone.” What the ‘Gay Cure’ Man ment, I have no Idea. Any way Children of PINK, they are all as gay as a Christmas Tree in that meeting.
Joseph Nicolosi is as Gay as a Fish!
He certainly does have the look of someone who’d enjoy a bit of same sex lovin’.
To quote Pink News: “There is very little evidence to show that attempting to treat a person’s homosexual feelings is effective and in fact it can actually be harmful,” said Professor King .
“So it is surprising that a significant minority of practitioners still offer this help to their clients.”
Seventeen per cent of the professionals questioned had attempted to help patients “reduce” gay or lesbian feelings, utilising techniques such as aversion therapy, more commonly used in the 1970s and 1980s.
The therapy involved associating gay imagery with electronic shocks. But just four per cent of therapists and psychiatrists said that they would try to use such treatments if asked by a patient today.”
But the healing therapy that will take place, does take and has taken place, conducted by Jo Nicolosi, has nothing to do with the above mentioned treatments. This is spiritual healing. Christ never used electronic shocks or aversion therapies. Christ healed the whole person. Why has Pink News deliberately misrepresented and perverted the truth?
Does Pink News also suggest that drug addicts, alcoholics and others with compulsive disorders should not be healed?
There are many Gays who are advocating homosexuality as a life -style, as something to choose. Even Peter Tatchell is reported as saying it is a choice. Are those who choose it allowed to re- convert or is it like converting to Islam, whereby those who try to escape from it are put to death.?
Yes David Skinner, every gay person who attempts heterosexual behaviour is put to death by the Gay Avengers. Didn’t you know?
Jesus, David Skinner, your poor deluded fool. You apparently sincerely believe the “spiritual healing” can alter a person’s sexuality! What is “spiritual healing”? Healing is healing. Spirituality is predicated on spirits and the supernatural. We have no evidence there are spirits or there is supernatural life in this universe. Therefore, there can be no “spiritual healing”. That leaves you with “healing” only. Healing is a physical process whereby a physical wound is made good. We homosexuals have no physical wounds, mate. So piss off with your healing and your “spiritual healing”. It’s bogus, man! Bogus, hocus-pocus baloney!
Do you really think your little Joseph Nicolosi is Superman? We think not.
#65: David Skinner – you say:
“Christ never used electronic shocks or aversion therapies. Christ healed the whole person.”
That’s impressive of Christ. But bearing in mind that Christ is a fictional character it’s hardly that amazing. Keep Christ out of this discussion. It is entirely irrelevant.
Another template for those who have not yet emailed the Home Secretary. If you haven’t written yet, please do so. If you have, email others, such as Scotland Yard, your MP, and the major papers and radio stations. Homophobes have to learn they can no longer do things like this.
Dear Jacqui Smith,
Further to my email to you of earlier today, a meeting being advertised as a “Sex & the City Conference” is to take place this coming Friday and Saturday, 24th and 25th April in Central London.
The true nature of this gathering is disguised as “A Judaeo – Christian conference for all”. However, all three of its speakers (Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D., Jeffrey Satinover, M.D., Ph.D., and Arthur Goldberg. J.D.) are purveyors of practices of homosexual elimination: they lecture on methods of turning homosexuals into heterosexuals. This is, of course, predicated on the belief that homosexuality should be eliminated. In other words, their intentions are predicated on absolute homophobia.
Please ensure that this conference is not permitted to take place and that its speakers are not permitted to enter this country.
Details of this conference can be read at:
Peter Tatchell and other high profile gays have abandoned the “ born like it “ argument and instead demand the human right to choose whatever sexual behaviour they wish, without, in their eyes, the indignity of being forced to justify it. In Spiked -on- line he said, “homosexuality: it isn’t natural. Ignore those researchers who claim to have discovered a ‘gay gene’”
Also consider an article from Bill Muehlenberg’s Culturewatch in which he says, “Consider Australian activist and Latrobe University lecturer, Dennis Altman, who wrote this in 1986: “To be Haitian or a hemophiliac is determined at birth, but being gay is an identity that is socially determined and involves personal choice. Even if, as many want to argue, one has no choice in experiencing homosexual desire, there is a wide choice of possible ways of acting out these feelings, from celibacy and denial . . . to self-affirmation and the adoption of a gay identity.” “Being gay,” says Altman “is a choice”.
Another Australian homosexual activist has said similar things about homosexuality and genetics: “I think the idea that sexuality is genetic is crap. There is absolutely no evidence for it at the moment, and I think it is unhealthy that people want to embrace this idea. It does reflect a desire to say, ‘it’s not our fault’, as a way of deflecting our critics. We have achieved what we have achieved by defiance, not by concessions. I think we should be recruiting people to homosexuality. It’s a great lifestyle and something everybody should have the right to experience. If you believe it’s genetic, how are you going to make the effort?” Or as he put it elsewhere: “On the question of recruiting to homosexuality – well, of course, I am in favor of this. I believe homosexuality to be a perfectly valid lifestyle choice. . . . I am naturally keen to encourage people to participate in [the gay lifestyle].”
#70. So David Skinner – do you also accept the following statement which is slighting your earlier quotation:
[b] “Also consider an article from Bill Muehlenberg’s Culturewatch in which he says, “Consider Australian activist and Latrobe University lecturer, Dennis Altman, who wrote this in 1986: “To be Haitian or a hemophiliac is determined at birth, but being religious is an identity that is socially determined and involves personal choice. Even if, as many want to argue, one has no choice in experiencing religious feelings, there is a wide choice of possible ways of acting out these feelings, from refusal and denial . . . to self-affirmation and the adoption of a religious identity.” “Being religious and belief in ‘god’ ,” says Altman “is a choice”.[/b] “
David Skinner, your justifications are so unsound they are not worthy of time or comment. But do keep coming back here to Pink News and you will eventually be rid of your hateful ideas. You CAN become a rational human being.
And David Skinner – even if as you claim that being gay is a choice. Then why on earth should that allow people who choose to be religious to determine what rights are allowed to gay people.
Or you also accept that people who choose to belief in ‘god’ and religion have their civil rights denied?
If not then why the double standard?
Those of you who want Jacqui Smith to ban Jo Nicolosi from entering Britain are no different from those who succeed in getting Geert Wilders from coming to show the film FITNA to the House of Lords.
You do realise of course that when Ben Summerskill succeeds, as assuredly he will, in removing Lord Waddington’s freedom of speech clause 58 amended to the Incitement to Homophobic Hatred Bill, the Muslims, as night follows day, will demand to have the incitement to religious hatred speech clause that they were denied in January 2006. At that point it will all be up with the homosexuals, for they will have opened the door to Islam whilst simultaneously getting rid of the only group of people, the Christians, who are capable of combating them with the Truth. Ben is a turkey voting for Christmas.
Can we stop engaging the troll? He’s boring me.
David Skinner. You believe that being gay is a choice. That is a view rejected by all proven medical and pschiatric opinion. Being gay is involuntary. One does not wake up one day and decide ‘I am going to be gay today’.
Being religious on the other hand is entirely voluntary. If being religious was involuntary and we had to accept the bible as the word of god then slavery and rape against your wife would be fully legal as the bible allows this. However it is fully accepted that religious belief is freely chosen.
Therefore Geert Wilders SHOULD have been allowed into Britain as he was merely criticising a voluntary set of beliefs.
Nicolosi (who looks very, very gay indeed) is claiming to ‘cure’ something intrinsic and unalterable. And he is engaging in incitement to hatred to do so. Therefore he should not be allowed in.
All the Kings Horses and all the Kings Men, could’nt put Poor NICOLOSI to gether again.
NICOLOSI, Who The DEVIL is he?
Ellen ideas can be all kinds of things, hateful, progressive, 21st and 22nd century, tolerant, kind but …the big question is are they true or untrue. If something is true it does not matter very much what I think; I am forced to accept them.
This is based on an actual radio conversation between a U.S. Navy
aircraft carrier (U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln) and Canadian authorities
off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. (The radio
conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on
10/10/95 authorized by the Freedom of Information Act.)
Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to
Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the
North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15
degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again,
divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND
LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES’ ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE
ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS
SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES
NORTH–I SAY AGAIN, THAT’S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH–OR
COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
Simon you speak as though you were an autonomous and independent person, as though you were the centre of your own universe, able to know, choose and direct your will however you wish.
May I suggest that you are not free to order the world as you would wish but are conditioned by homosexual ideology and philosophy that were none of your making. Call this world view by many names- evolutionary humanism, secularism, materialism and Marxism- but they all have this in common; that after creating a programmed, deterministic material existence in which there is no escape, there is still remains a deep spiritual discontent and a need to transcend material existence. The only escape is a leap into sex, drugs, pornography, in fact, anything just so long as it dulls this existential isolation. Why did Garry Frisch and Kevin Greening commit suicide if the homosexual lifestyle was such a load of fun?
Simon, in the Old Testament and Classical history there were many names for this; it was called idolatry, a worship of life forces and in particular of sexual oblivion. But, whatever it was, it was religion. You are religious and you worship yourself and the orgasm.
But to return to your question : Why should Christians, who choose to be so, determine the civil rights of homosexuals?
You speak as though homosexuals were the most oppressed people out, when in fact there is nothing that gays are denied. Who do you think runs government and the MSM? I don’t know if you have noticed recently but it is the Christians who are being denied their rights . Even Peter Tatchell, bless him, back in 2001, stood up for Harry Hammond having the right to express his Christian views in Bournemouth when he was set upon by up to thirty homosexuals- and subsequently died. I don’t know if Peter is still into civil rights or has become as homosexually tyrannical as Ben Summerskill.
Who is denying the civil rights of homosexuals from attending the meeting with Jo Nicolosi? It is the Brown Shirt Brigade.
David. I will repeat my question which you have not answered.
WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO CHOSE TO BELIEVE IN ‘GOD’ AND FOLLOW SOME RELIGION BE ALLOWED TO DETERMINE THE LEGAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS OF ANOTHER MINORITY GROUP?
Your inability to answer that without spewing irrelevant garbage totally destroys your own case.
Finally, Simon, what is wrong with hatred? What right have you tell me what I must like and what I must not like? Where are my human rights? What stiff -necked and bulging eyed arrogance! Or must I only like what you like? It is clear from reading the comments on this page that there is plenty of rage, contempt and hatred.
However, it is only fair to say, so that there is no doubt; I do have a deep hatred of lies, wickedness and all that which can bring a person into sexual bondage, including the sado- masochism. Above all I have a deep and smouldering hatred of those who would treat children as goods and services and lead them into a life of disease, degradation and an early grave, like Gary Frisch and Kevin Greening. For that I am prepared to take up arms, just as our parents did against Naziism which had its roots in the homosexual, Ernst Roehm.
Jesus Christ said in John 8:32 “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” Know the truth Simon, and you also will be free.
David – again avoiding the question?
You are free to believe whatever you like so long as your beliefs don’t interfere with my rights.
By the I don’t care what Jesus says – about anything. Lucky Santangelo – the heroine of Jackie Collins ‘Lucky’ books supports gay marriage. But like Jesus she is a work of fiction – therefore entirely irrelevant to a discussion of civil rights.
NICOLOSI, Why are you determind to decieve people? You are a liar, cheat and you should be in Jail where you surely belong. You do not belong with decent people in this society of ours.
Simon, Why should those who choose to believe in homosexual philosophy and evolutionary religion be allowed the determine the legal and civil rights of Christians ?
Your beliefs surrounding homosexuality have not a shred of scientific evidence. They are matters of faith. Even Peter Tatchell has said this. What is Gaydar’s motto? WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU WANT IT. Does this not suggest a certain amount of volition?
There is no gene – except , Gene Robinson, the June Bride. God help him.
Simon, you are not a pre- determined, programmed machine without a will or conscience but a man made in the image of God. You are not homosexual and I am not a heterosexual. We are men. You will become a man not by juxtaposition with another man but by juxtaposition with your complementary, a woman; that was the way we were created. Remember, the animals going into the Ark, two by two?
Why, Simon, should the views of a minority group, such as the homosexuals be allowed to oppress the majority with threats of public humiliation, loss of job, physical violence, police oppression and the possibility of seven years in prison, simply for saying “Don’t pervert our children ?”
Anyway, all this is academic, because in just few years time, it wont be me you will be arguing with but the Muslims who will fill the vacuum created by you. Bon Appetit.
“However, it is only fair to say, so that there is no doubt; I do have a deep hatred of lies, wickedness and all that which can bring a person into sexual bondage, including the sado- masochism. Above all I have a deep and smouldering hatred of those who would treat children as goods and services and lead them into a life of disease, degradation and an early grave, like Gary Frisch and Kevin Greening. For that I am prepared to take up arms, just as our parents did against Naziism which had its roots in the homosexual, Ernst Roehm.
Jesus Christ said in John 8:32 “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” Know the truth Simon, and you also will be free.”
Did anyone hear that noise? It was me banging my head on the desk for the umpteenth time today. It’s so tempting to tell the troll to stop talking crap, but I doubt the message would get through.
There’s no such thing as ‘homosexual ideology’, David Skinner. The only extra upset in most gay people’s lives as opposed to straight people is idiotic drivel from people like you.
What you say doesn’t make sense; you use non sequiturs to ‘prove’ something; you arrogantly assume that anyone who doesn’t have your faith/religion must have an empty life. Well, I don’t, thank you. I enjoy my life very much – and that’s WITHOUT all these ‘degradations’ or whatever you called them. I suggest it’s you who has the problem. If you were contented in your life and secure in your sexuality, you wouldn’t hang around gay news sites.
Don’t project your own insecurities onto others. Stop hiding behind ‘christianity’ to promote your bigotry (I put that in inverted commas there because I don’t think God, if he exists, would think much of you devoting your time to hating other people). You can come here as often as you want and post your nasty comments but it won’t make a bit of difference any more than you seating there and trying to convince me that the Earth is flat.
David – you’ve just defeated your own arguement.
“Simon, Why should those who choose to believe in homosexual philosophy and evolutionary religion be allowed the determine the legal and civil rights of Christians ?”
The legal and civil rights of christians are in no way affected by whether gay people have the civil right to marry.
If a christian has a moral or religious objection to gay marriage then they are entirely free not to marry someone of the same sex. Their civil and legal rights are not effected in any way.
Christians who want to ban gay marriage ARE affecting the legal and civil rights of gay people.
Stop bringing religion into this David. It is irrelevant. However thank you for defeating your own arguement. Saves me the bother of doing so.
Seems I missed the fun today…. another religious nutcase –
Matt 5:11; Matt 10:22 are quite appropriate in this case.
So david skinner, what do you mean by bearing arms against LGBT families and people who engage in kinky sex? You sound as nutty, and as dangerous, as Peter Sutcliffe.
“you are…. a man made in the image of God.”
How do you know this information?
“You will become a man not by juxtaposition with another man but by juxtaposition with your complementary, a woman; that was the way we were created. Remember, the animals going into the Ark, two by two?”
Really, mind your own F**king business who I sleep with and how. It is not your concern. You don’t seriously believe that the Ark was a real ship do you? How old do you think the Earth is, for amusement?
well done Simon, as always.
Wow, what an education it is reading your comments.
As for Duke, I’m afraid you have already given him the trophy just by commenting on his ludicrous statements. He should be ignored, if not by PinkNews, than by every one of us.
I am sure that his wife, on the off chance a woman can actually live with him, has been sleeping alone in a different bedroom for years and buying 9-volt batteries by the gross to activate her vibrating dildo. Please ignore him; like a ham, he delights in the limelight, un point, c’est tout, and you are all too intelligent to be taken in by such a social psychopath.
Keith, Adrian, Dave and every last one of you, you are an inspiration to me. Don’t ever stop being exactly who you are.
It’s an excellent idea to send e-mails to officials.
As for the meeting itself, I’m afraid I missed its real motive. What the hell are they trying to prove?
As for Peter Tatchell, regardless of how I’ve admired his essays, if he doesn’t speak up real soon, I’d be inclined to take the first plane to the U.K., to purchase a crowbar, and to rip that Blue Plaque off his house.
Finally, to bring up John Hunt, I believe this meeting could not take place in a country where Church and State are administered be the same person.
Like Dolly Parton sings: I will always love you. Warm regards.
Poor David Skinner cannot become free of his serious mental illness, for he must realise that religious faith is a mental illness. However, a cause of electric-shock treatment might help.
Simon, I really must go. It has been quite a lively conversation, though sadly I might have caused some folks to have got even further bent out of shape, nay, incited hatred and fury, as did Harry Hammond in 2001, the first martyr to homosexual violence in Britain.
On the subject of marriage and rights. If we liken it to a source of drinking water, such as a well, both you and I, black and white, male and female, young and old, left and right handed, intelligent and daft have the possibility of accessing it. This is not a right. No one has a god – given right to marry. . But this possibility only lasts as long as I or anyone else doesn’t think they would abuse it by polluting it or using the well for some other purpose, such as filling it with rubbish.
Marriage is such a well. I don’t have an automatic right to access it and I certainly don’t have a right to turn it into something else and eventually to destroy it altogether.
The sad truth is that globally gays might gain every right going but this will still not satisfy, for what gays really crave is public acceptance and the ability to walk hand in hand in any and every public area. Up till now I have only seen one gay couple doing this. No doubt if I were to visit homosexual enclaves, such as Brighton or Gay Parades, Folsom Street Fair etc., places where numbers give them a false sense of courage, I would see more.
What homosexuals really rage against is not Christians, Muslims, Hindus or those of no religious persuasion, but their own conscience, for deep down they know that homosexuality goes against the created order. That has nothing to do with me; I didn’t make the rules.
Finally and I really must leave now, but someone said that I am hiding behind religion. Well for a start I know many agnostics and those who would profess no religion who probably hold even stronger views than my own. Actually, by comparison I consider myself quite mild. But secondly Elton John, Ian McKellen and Robert King of the prestigious Kings’ Consort who was released from prison, just the other day, after only serving half of a four year sentence for abusing boys, all hide behind artistic performance. I have only used one piece of scripture and that was John 8:32 that had nothing to do with homosexuality. In any event, the Bible is not a piece of defensive armour but a weapon of attack.
God Bless David
I meant in a country where Church & State are ‘not’ administered by the same person, the delightful QE2.
MESSAGE FOR PHIL P. FROM KEITH IN SALFORD.
I HAVE TRIED, WITHOUT SUCCESS, TO E-MAIL email@example.com WITH THE TEMPLATE…TWICE.
IS THAT ADDRESS RIGHT….?
THE E-MAIL GOT RETURNED TWICE. :(
OH, AND THANKS FOR YOUR NOTE..!
I KNOW FULL WELL THAT MOST RELIGIONS ARE HUNG-UP ON THIS QUESTION, THE RELIGIONS OF ‘THE BOOK’ THAT IS, THE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS.
I SPEAK ONLY OF MY RELIGION (CATHOLICISM) BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONE I KNOW ABOUT; THE ONE I HAVE HAD A RUN-IN WITH.
I KNOW OTHER ‘FAMILIES ‘ HAVE PROBLEMS; I CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT MY ‘FAMILY’.
AND I AM NOT SURE WHEREIN I “KEEP APOLOGISING” FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
I AM TOO BUSY FUMING AT THEM AND HAVE BEEN DOING SO SINCE 1961, SINCE, LIKE THIS DAFT SOD TODAY,NICOLOSI IS IT (?) YEAH, SINCE THE PRIEST-IN-CHARGE OF THE SEMINARY I ATTENDED TOLD ME THAT I WAS SICK BECAUSE OF MY HOMOSEXUALITY AND, USHERING ME OUT OF THE DOOR OF THE SEMINARY, GAVE ME THE ADDRESS OF SOME QUACK IN LIVERPOOL WHO WOULD PUT WIRES AROUND MY HEAD AND….well you know the rest.buzz buzz fucking buzzzzz…
I DID NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF THAT MUCH,EVEN THO’ A PRIEST HAD TOLD ME… AND A PRIEST IS THE NEXT THING TO GOD, (?!)… AND I GOT UP HALF WAY THRO’ THE MASS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A CHURCH SINCE; THAT WAS 1961.
SO THEY ARE STILL AT IT AND ALWAYS WILL BE AT IT.
PLUS CA CHANGE…PLUS C’EST LA MEME CHOSE.
OR TO PUT IT IN LANKY…”NOWT’S NO DIFFRUNT..!
THE ONLY RELIGION THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEMO WITH IT IS BUDDHISM BUT PAPA RATZI DESCRIBED THAT BUNCH AS MORAL MASTURBATORS OR SOMESUCH.
I KNOW THAT BOYS THERE GO INTO THEIR MONASTERIES AS IS COMPULSORY KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THEY ARE GOING TO A ‘BUM-PALACE’…(their words, not mine).
IT DOES NOT SEEM TO WORRY THEM OVER MUCH.
David Skinner is not just seriously mentally ill: he is quite mad!
THANKS FOR THE LIGHTHOUSE SKETCH…!
LAFFIN’ ME TITS OFF HERE IN SALFORD.
We need to have another seminar/meeting, advocating how to change those diseased straights, who are filled with hate and violence, and any other straight person to become the healthy sexuality of homosexuality and/or bisexual.
We must help these poor straights to find their way back to the right and correct path of homosexuality and/or bisexuality.
What a mean old bully that Affidavit Skinnydip is! I doubt any nutty fundamentalist has ever even experienced love. Ah, l’amour… ~<3
@ Poor David Skinner,
Yes, Chrisinsanity is a tragic, destructive and wayward lifestyle choice, that many are lured into as impressionable youngsters.
Yet Behold! I bring Good Tidings of Great Joy! There IS a cure! It’s called ‘Getting An Adequate Theological Education’
The majority of New Testament scholars believe that the historical Jesus of Nazareth was an apocalyptic preacher whose proclamation of the imminent arrival of God’s Kingdom was mistaken.
Former Baptist minister Clayton Sullivan put it this way: “Jesus’ kingdom preaching was predicated on a mistake. His fervent belief that a magnificent kingdom, primarily for Jews, would appear on Earth within his listeners’ lifetime was an error, an illusion, an unfulfilled hope.”
The “Apostles of Christ” were simply deluded about the 1st century arrival of the Kingdom of God. And they portrayed Jesus as mistaken in that expectation too. They were all wrong.
Just as wrong as any 19th century End-of-Days crackpot cult who wrongly predicted the Apocalypse back then too.
What we can know about the Historical Jesus simply does not allow us to sustain the untenable idealization of him that Christianity demands.
So please remember: “Love the Christinsane, Hate the Christinsanity!”
This poor sad twisted little Christian calling himself “David Skinner” says, above, to Simon Murphy: “You are religious and you worship yourself and the orgasm.”
This is the root of poor “David Skinner’s” massive mental problem. He believes that all of we gay and lesbian people worship the orgasm in the same way that he worships his “God”. How utterly wrong he is. How demeaning is that statement.
Clearly “David Skinner” has no real first-hand knowledge of a very broad and wonderful spectrum of gay and lesbian people. For example, take Ben Bradshaw, gay MP. Despite Ben Bradshaw’s hectic life devoted to the concerns of his constituents, “David Skinner” asserts that Mr. Bradshaw only “worships himself and the orgasm”! Peter Mandelson, government mastermind and previous EU Trade Commissioner, is apparently, according to “David Skinner” totally focussed on the worship of himself and his orgasm. Sandi Toksvig, Radio 4 journalist, is similarly only intent upon the worship of herself and her orgasm. Sir Michael Bishop, Chairman of BMI, is only interested in the worship of his orgasms. Alan Bennett, Playwright & Author; Peter Ackroyd, Biographer, Novelist; Nicholas Hytner, Artistic Director, National Theatre; Dawn Airey, Managing Director, Sky Networks; Janet Paraskeva, Chief Executive of The Law Society; David Starkey, Historian & Broadcaster; Ali Smith, Writer; Ashley Steel, Director, KPMG; Deborah Warner, Theatre Director; James Clark, British Ambassador to Luxembourg; Sir Adrian Fulford, Judge; all these and THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS more gay and lesbian people are all, according to this “David Skinner” only interested in the worship of their orgasms.
“David Skinner” you have been a total sad bigot, a person filled with hatred for an irrational reason.
I have kicked you in the teeth. It is time for you to let the scales drop from your eyes, put aside your simple childish ways, and grow up!
Keith of Salford, the email address you used, firstname.lastname@example.org, is correct. It’s the one I used and my message did not bounce back. Firstly, are you totally sure you did not include an extra space or dot or something, i.e. not the exact email address above? If, however, you got the email address exactly as given above, then the bounce-back probably indicates that the receiver is blocking all incoming emails or that their inbox has been so filled with letters of objection today that their inbox is full and will receive no more! Both these cases would be good news! But do try again and again. Good for you for taking action. And as I said before, get yourself along to your local Humanist society: you’ll love being among like-minds – people who detest religions’ monopoly of morality and who are doing something very positive about it. Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society is gay, you know, and he is splendid!
P.S. After many many years I met up with the Parish Priest of my childhood – just because I wanted to know who he really was, this man who had spouted vehement godly morality at us every Sunday from the pulpit. He was delighted to see me! He invited me to dinner! And, yes, my old Parish Priest tried to get me into bed! I couldn’t believe it. So I did indeed find out who he really was, this vehement spouter of godly morality! We Humanists have all got stories like this to share.
Simon Murphy, I love you! I want to have your babies. (A turkey baster will be fine!)
“Also appearing at the conference is Jeffrey Satinover, who said in 2005 that sexual orientation is “a fiction”. He added that it is ludicrous to allow civil rights for a group of people whose condition does not exist.”
That’ll be Jeffrey Satinover the Orthodox Jew, then.
Jeffrey Satinover, a member of a group whose pseudo-racial religious identity is admitted by other, more honest Jews to be “a fiction” and whose claim to the right to turn the Land of Palestine into a secular Jewish State – dispossessing around 800,000 of the indigenous people – is based upon a very specious reading of a work of fiction (the legend of Abraham in the ethnocentric, racist, genocidal Hebrew Bible).
Perhaps it IS ludicrous to allow civil rights for a group of people whose condition does not really exist? Perhaps the State of Israel doesn’t really exist?
If you follow Satinover’s logic…
YEP…THE ADDRESS I USED (AND AGAIN JUST NOW) IS THE SAME AS YOU GIVE, SO THEIR INBOX MUST BE JAM-PACK-A-LOO-LAH…!
ALL POWER TO YOUR ELBOW.
I TRIED AGAIN TO E-MAIL AND THIS TIME IT WORKED….!
I HAVE ALSO E-MAILED THE TEMPLATES TO THE HOME SECRETARY.
I have created a FACEBOOK GROUP to try and organise a protest. feel free to join and pass on to your friends.
To borrow wording from the Lord Waddington’s amendment 29JA in the Public Order Act 1986, “for the avoidance of doubt” since, homosexuals are not as immediately identifiable as coloured people (indeed the mere fact of their need to “come out” would suggest that without their telling us, we would be none the wiser of their identity) and for fear of treading on distinctively homosexual toes which might accordingly land us in prison, could the attorney general give us examples of homosexual behaviour and words to which we must on no account react negatively or show the slightest criticism?
We are told that the man in the street and the policeman need not worry with regard to checking whether their behaviour is homophobic, since statutory guidance could be issued to the Attorney-General on how prosecutions under this provision should proceed, and that this will give comfort to the many people who already in many cases have been harassed by the police and the threat of legal proceedings.
But without clarity and an obvious appeal to universal reason and common sense, the law will be dependent on the interpretation, political correctness and subjectivity (that is liable to change second from second) and digestive system of a fallible Attorney General. Like the character in the film “Bruce Almighty,” he will have to respond simultaneously to over 60, 000.000 citizens, all asking whether their next thought will be considered as criminal or not. He is going to be a busy man.
Surely, for the avoidance of doubt it is only fair that the Attorney General should point out not only the kind of homophobic speech hatred that might get us into trouble but also we need to know precisely, particularly and accurately towards which homosexual actions and words we are not to feel hatred. What must we accept without dissent or murmer?
For example: if the public reacted negatively or showed less than enthusiasm for someone like Sir Ian McKellen coming into a school (where at this very moment he is free, as far as I know without a CRB check having been made on him, to access every school in Britain: And- just supposing- he started to read out a poem “The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name,” that he read in a restaurant off the Tottenham Court Road, during the Sod Off God Party ( Evan Harris was in attendance) when the blasphemy laws were repealed, would the public or a pupil be free to express their dismay and distress without being, threatened with seven years in prison?
The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name
By James Kirkup
As they took him from the cross
I, the centurion, took him in my arms-
the tough lean body
of a man no longer young,
but well hung.
He was still warm.
While they prepared the tomb
I kept guard over him.
His mother and the Magdalen
had gone to fetch clean linen
to shroud his nakedness.
I was alone with him.
For the last time
I kissed his mouth. My tongue
found his, bitter with death.
I licked his wound-
the blood was harsh
For the last time
I laid my lips around the tip
of that great cock, the instrument
of our salvation, our eternal joy.
The shaft, still throbbed, anointed
with death’s final ejaculation.
I knew he’d had it off with other men-
with Herod’s guards, with Pontius Pilate,
With John the Baptist, with Paul of Tarsus
with foxy Judas, a great kisser, with
the rest of the Twelve, together and apart.
He loved all men, body, soul and spirit – even me.
So now I took off my uniform, and, naked,
lay together with him in his desolation,
caressing every shadow of his cooling flesh,
hugging him and trying to warm him back to life.
Slowly the fire in his thighs went out,
while I grew hotter with unearthly love.
It was the only way I knew to speak our love’s proud name,
to tell him of my long devotion, my desire, my dread-
something we had never talked about. My spear, wet with blood,
his dear, broken body all open wounds,
and in each wound his side, his back,
his mouth – I came and came and came
as if each coming was my last.
And then the miracle possessed us.
I felt him enter into me, and fiercely spend
his spirit’s final seed within my hole, my soul,
pulse upon pulse, unto the ends of the earth-
he crucified me with him into kingdom come.
-This is the passionate and blissful crucifixion
same-sex lovers suffer, patiently and gladly.
They inflict these loving injuries of joy and grace
one upon the other, till they die of lust and pain
within the horny paradise of one another’s limbs,
with one voice cry to heaven in a last divine release.
Then lie long together, peacefully entwined, with hope
of resurrection, as we did, on that green hill far away.
But before we rose again, they came and took him from me.
They knew what we had done, but felt
no shame or anger. Rather they were glad for us,
and blessed us, as would he, who loved all men.
And after three long, lonely days, like years,
in which I roamed the gardens of my grief
seeking for him, my one friend who had gone from me,
he rose from sleep, at dawn, and showed himself to me before
all others. And took me to him with the love that now forever dares to speak
Jack straw said in Parliamentary debate, Jan 26, 2009 : “We seek all the time to ensure that what this House and the public regard as obscene, objectionable and extremely pornographic and corrupting is covered by the law, and I am happy to sit down with the hon. Gentleman to see whether this provision and the other provisions cover what he has in mind.
Is the Love that Dares to Speak its name obscene, objectionable and extremely pornographic and corrupting and should Ian McKellen be free to access every school in the country ?
According to Ben Summerskill, during a prayer rally being held by Christians outside Parliament in January 2007, at which there almost 100 children standing beneath posters, saying “Don’t corrupt us,” there was a gentleman who was shouting, “Don’t allow homosexuals to pervert these children”. This to him, was incitement to hatred and should carry a seven year prison sentence!
Has anyone here seen But I’m A Cheerleader? This NICOLOSI guy is about as ex-gay as RuPaul was in that film! I bet he’s still a closet cock-jockey!
Phil, your list has a familiar ring. It sounds like that of the heroes and heroines of the annual Stonewall Awards.
This indeed is of broad and wonderful spectrum of gay and lesbian people, a glittering assemblage of diversity.
I am surprised you didn’t make mention of the lovely Angela Eagle, Chris Bryant, , Mark Oten, Jeremy Thorpe, Michael Portillo, Elton John, Garry Frisch, Kevin Greening, David Mixner, the composer, Benjamin Britten, Robert King of the kings’ Consort, Mark Brigham, a former lesbian and gay liaison officer from Hackney with an exemplary nine year record with the Metropolitan Police. What about the gorgeous Boy George, or Peter Hernon, a wonderful family friend? You could have made mention of the marvellous scout and brigade leaders, Jonathan Scarcliffe, Bell and Kinge. Then of course there is the family friendly and fat controller of Thomas the Tank Engine, David Harper. Why didn’t you mention Paul Kidd, butler to the Queen and Queen mother? There again there is the respectable, married father- of – two, Alan Whitty, a pillar of the community and governor of community school. You also failed to mention in this hall of fame, the head of the chief executive of LGBT Youth Scotland, Jamie Rennie.
What really surprises me is that you have failed to mention Lord Chris Smith, who has HIV and who was MP for Islington when, during his watch, the council was feeding children in care to paedophiles. You could even have taken us to Jersey to meet all the upstanding pillars of society who run that island and Haut de la Garenne. How remise of you Phil- how could you have failed to mentioned the jewel in this glittering crown, the wizard, Ian McKellen?
Phil, let us celebrate this broad and wonderful spectrum who must surely be at the very cutting edge of human evolution.
I love ‘But I’m A Cheerleader’ it is so spot on about all these ex-gay people – hillarious. I think my ‘root’ was my mother worked in a builders yard when I was a child. What I also love about this film is that it isn’t about religion.
David Skinner – OK you got us pegged… gay people must all be intrinsicly evil and if only they’d follow your perfect example and pretend to be straight everything would be right with the world and right thinking straight people such as yourself could feel good about the world once more.
We don’t claim to be at the pinnacle of human evolution, we merely pride ourselves on not being bigoted arseholes.
“David Skinner” you HAVE been kicked in the teeth, haven’t you! And you HAVE caught a glimpse, perhaps more, of your hate-drenched stupidity. But you’re just too proud to do a turnabout, or even go silent in embarrassment.
So hatred still drips from your fangs and your very sick mind. You imply that the splendid Chris Smith, the ex. MP, is proof of your stated belief that all gay and lesbian people worship themselves and the orgasms because he has been infected by a lethal virus. Words can’t decry the sickness of such a thought.
Go away you poor impoverished little creature. You are a primitive still plodding down there in the muck at the base of civilization’s ladder.
You’ve been kicked in the teeth and you know you have no weapons left.
Develop, evolve, . . . or continue to paddle around in your muck. That’s your choice at this point.
Did anyone understand what Affidavit Skinnydip’s last comment was about? Did somebody else just comment under his name, or is he now agreeing with us? I hope he has seen the light. The LGBT community is just as wonderful and fallible as the straight community, and I’m glad he sees that now.
I suppose that the stuff in comment 106 just made so little sense that Skinnydip either decided to just give up or had some sort of epiphany.
David Skinner believe in ‘god’. What a pity his ‘god’ is such a joyless, dreary shithead.
David – if you’re going to worship some character who had risen from the dead why not worship Cher instead. She has risen from the dead many times (come sundown every evening in fact) and she is a far more interesting person to worship than that Jesus idiot.
David Skinner – your ‘polluting the well’ analogy reminded me of the whole separate drinking fountains for black people.
It’s a stupid analogy because it doesn’t work. You might as well say that marriage is like a one-seater plan and you, the perfect Christian straight guy is sitting in it, and then a gay person gets in and makes it crash, so marriage is destroyed and it’s all the gay person’s fault. Yep, that works too if your purpose is choosing examples that justify your bigotry. Why not toss a coin? Head I win, tails you lose.
Can’t you see how stupid you’re making yourself look? Much as you annoy me with your spiteful comments, I actually can’t help feeling sorry for you. I GENUINELY believe you need help (that’s not a nasty comment, I honestly feel you need to talk to someone about your issues. Honestly)
(Simon Murphy – your Cher comments crack me up! Nice to smile reading this thread :))
*obviously I meant “one-seater plane” there. Me+laptop keyboards don’t work.
You know, “David Skinner” is so blinded by his hatred he may not realise your tongue is in your cheek – and that you don’t actually condone that people put energy into the lifelong WORSHIP of Cher and all other similar celebrities. “David Skinner” is so suffering from mental illness that he is likely to think, “Exactly! See! Proves my point. Gays and lesbians, when they’re not bowing before their orgasms, are down on their knees in front of Cher!”
What I am seriously suggesting is that it could well be that “David Skinner” is (clinically) a Paranoid Schizophrenic, relishing life in a world of his own devising, a world dominated and fuelled by his own irrational fears.
Paranoid Schizophrenics are people who haven’t mastered the simple trick of recognising that bad thoughts to do with “evil forces” working against them are not facts. They do not recognise that we all have something called a “confirmation bias”, enabling all of us, if we choose to go down the Paranoid Schizophrenic’s route, to find evidence to support our bad thoughts.
The Paranoid Schizophrenic needs to train himself or herself to find evidence that goes against his tendency to think bad thoughts. A very helpful book for any Paranoid Schizophrenic is “The Day the Voices Stopped” by Ken (Kenneth) Steele.
There is now a fairly effective drug that can help Paranoid Schizophrenics. It is called “Zyprexa”. It helps to reduce the individual’s belief in his or her worst fears. It is available in the UK and the US on prescription.
I am not made in the image of god since it doesn’t exist.
Whether my gayness is genetic, inate, or whatever, I know In never made a choice.
It’s also the fact that no-one can find any OBJECTIVE harm that homosexuality causes of itself. It ins’t a sin because there’s no such thing, it’s not a crime because it causes harm to no individual or society. It is only apparently a problem because it’s different (with ick factor built it) and a bunch of ancient fables and rules from the bronze age still infiltrates the mindsets of many people but not as far as shellfish are concerned).
You can think anything you like, just don’t piss on my parade
Just one look at the photo of Joseph Nicolosi and you can see he’s a little queen – look closely at the immaculate bouffant shaping of the receding hair and the very carefully nurtured little beard. It’s a little gay gnome!
Dear Phil, to return to where I entered this conversation, comment 66 and the quote from Pink News:
“There is very little evidence to show that attempting to treat a person’s homosexual feelings is effective and in fact it can actually be harmful,” said Professor King .
“So it is surprising that a significant minority of practitioners still offer this help to their clients.”
Seventeen per cent of the professionals questioned had attempted to help patients “reduce” gay or lesbian feelings, utilising techniques such as aversion therapy, more commonly used in the 1970s and 1980s.
The therapy involved associating gay imagery with electronic shocks. But just four per cent of therapists and psychiatrists said that they would try to use such treatments if asked by a patient today.”
My point at the time was that this a complete travesty of the treatment offered by Jo Nicolosi. In other words a deliberate distortion of the truth, for which the homosexual legions are pathologically pre- disposed, or should I say orientated?
But here you are, Phil, proposing chemical treatment for myself. Sounds very reminiscent of the treatment dished out to dissenters in both Communist Russia and Nazi Germany.
“David Skinner” you have been a total sad bigot, a person filled with hatred for an irrational reason………I have kicked you in the teeth. It is time for you to let the scales drop from your eyes, put aside your simple childish ways, and grow up! …“bigoted arseholes…” “David Skinner” you HAVE been kicked in the teeth, haven’t you!”……“So hatred still drips from your fangs and your very sick mind…………“David Skinner believe in ‘god’. What a pity his ‘god’ is such a joyless, dreary shithead“…….”David Skinner” is so suffering from mental illness” ……..“What I am seriously suggesting is that it could well be that “David Skinner” is (clinically) a Paranoid Schizophrenic, relishing life in a world of his own devising, a world dominated and fuelled by his own irrational fears.”………“Jesus, David Skinner, your poor deluded fool……..So piss off with your healing and your “spiritual healing”……..“Your inability to answer that without spewing irrelevant garbage totally destroys your own case.”……….“Really, mind your own F**king business who I sleep with and how. It is not your concern.”…….Poor David Skinner cannot become free of his serious mental illness, for he must realise that religious faith is a mental illness. However, a cause of electric-shock treatment might help………“What a mean old bully that Affidavit Skinnydip is! I doubt any nutty fundamentalist has ever even experienced love. Ah, l’amour…” …….“This poor sad twisted little Christian calling himself “David Skinner”…….“This is the root of poor “David Skinner’s” massive mental problem”
…….“Go away you poor impoverished little creature. You are a primitive still plodding down there in the muck at the base of civilization’s ladder…….You’ve been kicked in the teeth and you know you have no weapons left. …….Develop, evolve, . . . or continue to paddle around in your muck. ..“………“
I am sure that his wife, on the off chance a woman can actually live with him, has been sleeping alone in a different bedroom for years and buying 9-volt batteries by the gross to activate her vibrating dildo. Please ignore him; like a ham, he delights in the limelight, un point, c’est tout, and you are all too intelligent to be taken in by such a social psychopath“.
Well Ellen, you said (72) “David Skinner, your justifications are so unsound they are not worthy of time or comment. But do keep coming back here to Pink News and you will eventually be rid of your hateful ideas. You CAN become a rational human being.”
May I take this opportunity of thanking everyone here for the kind and rational comments above. I really am overwhelmed with such undeserved praise. Thank you, thank you , thank you.
gosh, what an interesting blog! it starts with trolls Duke and Anon, then halfway through David Skinner joins them and says the most inflammatory thing imaginable about gays and lesbians, and then at 119 Skinner tries to bring it to an end by crying that everybody has been shouting at him, not being nice to him, hurting HIS poor little feelings, wah, wah, wah. incredible! People suffering from homophobia want it both ways, they want to be able to name-call and insult and they want people to lie down and accept it!
David Skinner – What did you expect, a big hug and a handshake? If you’re going to tell the lot of us that as far as you’re concerned we’re no more than a bunch of degenerate deviants who need to be ‘cured’ on our own website, then demand a sympathetic ear for these nuggets of wisdom you’re even more stupid and deluded than you sound. No need to thank me, it’s my pleasure.
So true, Flapjack. Haven’t visited Pink News for ages but this has been a wakeup call, a reminder of the hatred there is against us amongst some of the people out there whom we pass on the street. I must visit Pink News more often. (Of course, I’ve been terribly busy these last 5 months – down on my knees every day “worshiping the blessed orgasm” from 9 till 5 (as David Skinner seems to think). Haven’t the faintest idea of how the bills get paid! :-)
Poor self-pitying nutcase David Skinner, martyred because he merely spewed hatred against people he didn’t know, and merely threatened to kill gay parents.
If you make statements like that, you must face the consequences and expect hatred, ridicule, contempt, as predicted by your personal saviour.
You can’t tolerate other people, and you can’t tolerate criticism for your nutty beliefs.
It’s time you learnt that tolerance has to be reciprocated.
Nicoloci, Duke,Skinner and the rest of that motley crew. You are closet queens are you not? I have it on good authortty that you are closet queens. Now do not worry Nicy and pals, we wont say anything. You should not hide your Gay tendancies under a bushell of Lies.
#120: David: You say
“May I take this opportunity of thanking everyone here for the kind and rational comments above. I really am overwhelmed with such undeserved praise. Thank you, thank you , thank you.”
What do expect David when your arguements are so UTTERLY feeble and inane? Praise? Support. I think concern for your sanity is a lot kinder than you deserve?
You actually asked the most moronic question on earth. You asked why the proponents of gay marriage ignore the civil and legal rights of christians. When even you must realise that extending the right to enter a legal contract (marriage) in no way impinges on your rights as a christian.
Again a big thank you to all, for your rational arguments and kind praise. I have never in all my life received such compliments and boundless generosity. I am quite overcome. I can only urge you all to keep on down the broad, diverse and multicoloured highway, reaching for end of that Rainbow in the sky. Or was it a pie? Marvellous. Keep going, I say, for I am absolutely certain that you will all reach the final destination that you have freely chosen. No doubt when you get there you will meet others like Garry Frisch and Kevin Greening who cheated by taking a short cut.
David Skinner – again, thankyou for your martyrdom, and your amusing allusions to Pascals’s Wager, that really impresses everyone here and makes us understand what a truly informed and benevolent person you are.
If there’s any more flagellation I can offer to stoke up your feelings of vanity/martyrdom, don’t hesitate to ask. Big hugs and kisses xxx
Yeah, let’s all put our loving arms around this poor terrified Paranoid Schizophrenic and slip him one Zyprexa down his throat and another Zyprexa up his arse (as in the French manner, of taking tablets as a suppository) and then tomorrow morning he should wake up a little sweet, with all his paranoid fears on the wane.
David Skinner walked into a flower shop and asked the owner, “Do you telegraph flowers?” The owner replyed, “Yes of course we do sir”. SKINNER said, “Could you teleghraph me, I’m a PANCY.” Actually, is’nt it an insult to Pancys?
Sorry, Flapjack, but really must go now. May I leave you with these articulate and eminently rational words.
‘As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.’
‘So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. ( Take a visit to Folsom Street Fair)
‘But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.’
‘For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
“Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
David Skinner – May I leave you with these articulate and rational words… try just for once to back up your arguments about how I should live my life without resorting to unco-oberated historical and religious heresay. Telling me that “god and or Jesus said so” is about as compelling as me telling you that the Wizard of Oz decreed it.
David Skinner obviously is in dire need of some cock action. No wonder he’s so turned on by Jesus. That’s the only naked dude he’s allowed to look at lustfully.
The obsession with gay folk shows what a Big Ol’Desperado he is.
Anyway – now that THAT mosquito has been swatted I hope all y’all have contacted the Emmanuel Centre and Jacqui Smith.
To that guy who posts long biblical quotes – no-one reads them, they’re too long.
Simon, we have indeed swatted that mosquito, haven’t we! Well done! All the little prat can now do is copy and paste a large chunk from The Christian Bigot’s Manual (aka The Bible). He can’t cough up any further arguments or words of his own because he’s been revealed to all as illogical, unthinking, and indoctrinated . . . OR, as I say, a poor unfortunate Paranoid Schizophrenic who needs to get himself along to his local Community Mental Health Team. (Yes, there’s one in every health authority “David Skinner” and if you tell them about all your problems they WILL help you.)
“Wake up, O sleeper,
arise from thy delusions!”
Great to see the new thread this afternoon, announcing that GALHA have issued a formal statement against the conference planned for Friday and Saturday.
For those who haven’t been to the new thread yet, don’t miss the revealing article about Nicolosi and his band at guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/apr/03/weekend.deccaaitkenhead
And I think I may have heard that certain very angry people have already managed to buy tickets to the planned homophobes’ conference this weekend and intend to bring about unholy hell amongst the assembled at the most unexpected moments! Should be fun!
Flapjack , how should we live our lives without resorting to the Bible? You can find the answer to that question by looking at countries where the Bible has already been banned, such as Hitler’s Germany, the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cambodia and any number of Islamic countries. Look to them, Flapjack they will tell you how to live a godless life that is shortly to come here. In fact it is here already, especially with Gordon Brown. If as you suggest that believing in the Bible is fantasy, then let us have the fantasy because the reality of these countries is a hell on earth that will only get worse. And, as I have said, life in Britain is destined to become more disordered, insecure and destructive by the end of this year.
However it is my belief (and that of the largest section of adherents to one sort of a belief or another, the Christians, who make up a third of the world’s population) that as a pilot cannot fly without instrumentation, so we cannot live without the author and creator of history revealing knowledge about Himself, ourselves, the situation in which we find ourselves and an implacable but defeated enemy. We could never think this stuff up; it is beyond us. It has had to be revealed. A more recent survey, for the years up to 1992, put the distribution of Bibles, worldwide, close to 6,000,000,000 in more than 2,000 languages and dialects. Whatever the precise figure, the Bible is by far the best-selling book of all time.
“How then should we live?” A great question Flapjack and the answer is found in the Maker’s instruction manual: the Bible.
“And, as I have said, life in Britain is destined to become more disordered, insecure and destructive by the end of this year.”
He is a fearful little nay-sayer, isn’t he? A true Jeremiah, of paranoid proportions!
Fascinating. He’s not making me angry any more. He’s making me laugh.
He probably really believes that his “Maker” will pin some little medal on him some day for coming back with his own little defence of The Bigot’s Manual.
Go away and have yourself a good wank, “David Skinner” . . . and try not to feel guilty!
One thing that religious fundamentalists like Skinnydip don’t seem to understand is that, if their creator deity actually existed, humanists wouldn’t suddenly bow down before “him”. This god of theirs has an appalling moral code, randomly slaughtering people because they happen to be tenuously linked to people he doesn’t like, demanding respect because he made us, decreeing what is and isn’t good based on his own whims. Is what Joseph Fritzl did to his daughter defensible? Neither is what a deity does to their “children”. Nothing gives any sort of lifeform that kind of right.
David Skinner – I also used to believe no-one could make the bible up, but once you start looking through historical records and accounts of religions that it borrowed from, you start to see just how much of it was a cut and paste job from previous myths outside the Judeochristian sphere.
Ever wondered why all the cannibalistic symbolism in the eucharist? Wouldn’t be pagan in origin would it? Ever wondered why Jesus’s life and that of Apollo have so much in common? Don’t even get me started on the Egyptian gods. To say you couldn’t make it up is just bull. It simply requires a lot of scribes and a lot of man-hours. And the scientific inaccuracies and inconsistancies are legion.
You’d think a book professing to be the inerrant word of god would at least get the shape of the earth right.
I am proud to be gay, I don’t want to be cured… I was born gay end of story…
David. Do you accept the bible as the word of god?
If you accept the bible as the word of god do you support god’s decision that it is acceptable for a man to own slaves; to rape his wife and to stone her to death if she commits adultery.
Don’t know about anyone else but religion seems unspeakably sexist, racist and evil (ESPECIALLY if you accept the bible as the word of god)
You said to Simon Murphy:
“….you worship yourself and the orgasm.”
Are you calling our boy a wanker?
That’s fighting talk in these parts……
Flapjack! “You’d think a book professing to be the inerrant word of god would at least get the shape of the earth right.” Ha! Well said, Flapjack. Must remember that. Bloody brilliant! Is there any greater proof that the Bible and the Koran and all other ancient “holy” texts were written by primitive ignorant peoples!
Simon, good idea, get him frantically justifying the non-existent god. Here’s some more questions for him, and all god-botherers, to sweat over.
Have any of your prayers ever, in actuality, been answered?
Is every single word written in your holy book factual, truthful and unambiguous?
If you are a Christian and Mohammed, Allah’s prophet, came down to earth tomorrow, would you remain a Christian? If you’re a Muslim and Jesus came down from heaven tomorrow would you remain a Muslim?
What are your chances of getting into heaven? Do you actually know for sure of anybody who has? How do you know?
Why do you think is it impossible to prove anything whatsoever of a supernatural nature?
Is it possible that the devout Catholic, Adolph Hitler, could be in heaven if he had truly repented prior to his death?
Where was your soul prior to your conception?
To what sorts of depravity would you descend if you were convinced by us that there is no god?
Why doesn’t your god show him/herself anymore?
When do you think Christ will come back to Earth? Where is he/she at the moment?
Why was little or no faith needed to believe in god during Old Testament times (god appeared to humans regularly according to your holy book) yet today Christians have to rely on 100% faith for their belief?
How would you prove that your god exists – without using arguments that someone from another religion would use to prove their god exists, and without reference to the Bible?
What is the difference between a dream, or hallucination, and a vision from God?
Why is your god the only valid god?
By what method do you determine the difference between the voice of God, and the voice of the Devil pretending to be God?
If Christ did come back to earth, what would be your minimum requirement for proof of his authenticity?
My question is how this group thinks they can cure a person of the sexuality they were born with. It is like changing the colour of your skin. I do believe this lot are too stupid to cure a ham let alone a person.
I didn’t want to paste all the crap on their website about the gay agenda/destruction of life as we know it blah blah, because this thread is long, but have a look at the link below. Underneath the conference info are their worries about LGBT people – distasteful reading. It includes mention of their 2007 conference – “Is Gay Real” (I kid you not):
That gives a truer idea of their bigotry, and may be useful to quote in emails to the Home Secretary.
I didn’t want to paste all the crap on their website about the gay agenda/destruction of life as we know it blah blah, because this thread is long, but have a look at the link below. Underneath the conference info are their worries about LGBT people – distasteful reading. It includes mention of their 2007 conference – “Is Gay Real” (I kid you not):
That gives a truer idea of their bigotry, and may be useful to quote in emails to the Home Secretary.
Again wow! I’ve been sitting here for the last hour in my favorite corner of the public library with my wireless notebook on my lap reading this thread, and tears have been flowing uncontrollably from my eyes. The librarian, whom I have known for over 30 years, came over with a glass of water and a box of Kleenex and said: ‘Don’t worry, honey, you are simply reading something that is causing growth pains. You’ll be alright.’
In all honesty though, I must say that we French, as imperfect as we are, know how to ignore a guy like Skinner who belongs in a padded cell trying desperately to make friends with a spider.
In all fairness though, I think Skinner deserves a prize for making every star in the cosmos sing with their light on all you incredible guys and gals. What prize? How about a one-way ticket to Kenya? Traveling is therapeutic, and I think he really deserves a good night’s rest under the beautiful African skies – providing we put a couple of cupfuls of catnip in his sleeping bag. But, I’m not bitter… I just like to see cats enjoying themselves, don’t you?
Again, if you’ll excuse my French, ‘Je vous aime’
I have been following your traces on other websites. I think it is about time you were exposed for the bigotry, homophobia and hate mongering from which you think you can escape accountability.
I understand that you want to be exposed, which is why you have not been circumspect about your identity on these sites.
I think your diocese would be very interested in how your frequent gay chat sites inciting hatred. . . I am sure they will be fascinated by your very “Christian Behaviour”; as will be your family friends, work colleagues and the wider community that you live in. . . .
In addition many of us are looking forward to putting a face to your hate filled, if some what plagiarised rhetoric at this gay cure conference. . .
In addition you really should be reminded that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is “inhospitality” . . . not homosexual activity per se.
David . . .You frequent this site and violate it with you’re off topic rants . . . polluting it with your narcissistic self absorbed, hate filled rhetoric. . . You are very “hospitable” aren’t you!
Moreover, . . . it appears your incapacity to reason appears to be the result of over activity in the nether regions. Not to worry . . . I have been assured by theological experts there is nothing the of angels of Sodom and Gomorrah cannot sort out in the old sewage department. Let us know when you have had a visitation from our Lord . . . alternatively get a psychiatric referral from your local GP for a course of antipsychotics.
Further more David
WHICH BIT OF THE FOLLOWING DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
We are not interested in your prayers to save our souls
We are not interested in accepting Jesus as our personal saviour
We are not interested in your endless cut and paste bible bashing
Further – Further more David
We are not interested in your warped and patronising broken record of homophobia
so 1950s . . . and so over. . .
. . . and please do not sacrifice any goats for us.
David . . . I rather think this blunt salutation sort of sums up what every one on this site is trying to tell you.
David is funny. He’s like the village idiot. Irritating but irremovable. Sort of like a cat poo stain on the carpet.
‘So there can be no good without god’ I am always suspicious of people who make that claim, not to know right from wrong without the help of some divine inspiration.
Without the bible, David Skinner would think it’s alright to kill, rape., murder, pillage? His moral code, of course, says you can only do a right action to evade a wrong one, out of compulsion, in expectance of a reward afterward. And above all, to avoid hell. This is not morality.
Secondly, the premise: without god, we would have North Korea, Stalin, Hitler.
Hitler as mentoined was roman catholic, as was 20 percent of the SS, confessing catholics, murder spree all week, have your crimes, your responsibilities absolved at the weekend and back to the genocide business again. John Cornwell’s book about Hitlers pope can tell you more about church collusion with Nazism and fascism.
Stalin – orthodox seminarian who took power from the Czar, who was, as far as his credulous people were concerned, the link to god. he only replaced one unquestionable, unassailable, unalterable, absolute power with another. Stalinism and Christianity run parralel to each other:
- the personality cult and worshipful status of their messiah
- the witch hunts and excommunications: the gulags, mass murders, Inquisition style;
- the miracles: in this case, economic miracles of Tomfin Lysenko, based on no evidence;
North Korea is almost the same. The head of state is a dead man, the Great Leader; the head of the party,, his son, Kim Jong-il, is the Dear Leader. A trinity may be on the horizon given the latter’s failing health. Its people are prisoners, watched over, every minute of the day, their every move monitored in case they do a wrong action, the system unassailable, unchangeable. their lives a misery, all they can do is offer never-ending praise.
Does this sound familiar? But, unlike Christianity, at least in North Korea you can get out of it, and die.
Christianity is just the same – surveillance, threat of punushment, absolute tyranny. But when you die that’s only the start. We should be glad no such celestial dictatorship like ‘Heaven’ exists, because look at what North Korea is like, and imagine that, never ending praise form the great Leader, for eternity. My idea of hell.
This is all we have, and we should make the most of it while we can.
I am all for medieval recreational pursuits.
Get your rotten tomatoes ready for the village idiot . . . you don’t need to put him in the stocks . . . he puts himself in them willingly.
(contd) the point is this: abolishing religion is only the start to removing tyranny. The way to do that is through eradicanting worship. Mammals like human beings should not be worshipped. Instead, using reason, critical thinking, judging reputations by actions and noth the other way around; basing beliefs on evidence, logic; realising that science offers the best way to answer our deepest questions on the origins of the cosmos and out place – our lowly place – in it.
Critical thinking and reasoning cannot happen in the kneeling position. It’s how, not what you think, that’s important; if you need to be told what to believe, then that is the source of credulity and totalitarianism flourishes.
Anyone who claims to know god exists, and not only that, but to know the mind of god intimately, so much so that they can tell you his opinion on who you should sleep with, in what position, and what kind of sexual activity you might be able to engage in – these people need to be left out of the argument at the very first instance.
The fact is – religion was our first attempt at morality; first attempt at meteorology, understanding diseases, astronomy, medicine, natural history. In all of these areas we have better explanations, better morality.
We are the only species aware of its own death, we’re afraid to die, afraid of the dark, poorly evolved, credulous species, with over evolved adrenaline glands. that’s why we have religion, and so much misery caused by religion. If someone said, make the right sacraments and you will have eternal life, well, it’s a very tempting offer.
And societies that realise we have better answers, than a 1st century collection of manuscripts, are better off, have lower crime rates, more educated, less violence, less sexually transmitted diseases, than ones which are religious. (cf Economist’s annual studies).
Name a good/ moral action or statement made by a religious person, that could not be made by a non religious person.
Name a wicked or evil statement or action that could only be made by a religious person. I can think of something before you even say the words ‘Waco massacre’.
Every attempt to improve human rights has been opposed bitterly by the parties of god: freedom of conscience, of enquiry, of expression; right to fair representation; emancipation of slaves, of women, desegregation, and emancipation of LGBT people – every step has been a battle with the dark forces of religion.
And we have better morality – thanks to Epicurus, Democritus, Thomas paine, John Stuart Mill, Thomas Jefferson, mary Wollstonecraft, to today – AC Grayling for example.
Without belief in god there is still solidarity, humour, irony, love, the wonder of science, literature, kindness, art, in fact all the things that make life worth living every minute to the fullest. To wish for anything more is wish thinking.
the road to damascus is a 2-way street – I invite you to do the right thing, not what makes you feel happy, and walk away from your religion here, tonight. And you will only begin to realise your full potential.
AdrianT & JohnK:
At the risk of sounding like hellish, never-ending praise: MORE MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE…. and BRAVO.
First off – I love Simon Murphy. If ever a guy needed a facebook group it’s him. The Lucky Santangelo post at 87 was a classic!
So, I now know what I’m doing on Saturday, see you there guys x
Thankyou Adrian – You summarised everything quite nicely there!
Well, when a fanatic like david skinner says he’s going to “take up arms” against gay parents – his comment is an incitement to violence by the way, which should be passed to the police – of course he’s going to say it. The Bible says you have to.
And skinner is right, the bible is a weapon of attack. The same book that celebrates the murder of LGBT people, and genocide, xenophobia, killing of children, anti-semitism, slavery – endorsed by the supposed Jesus and St Paul, rape and oppression of women. and it’s been used throughout 2000 years to justify strifeand misery, from the inquisition, to pogroms against the jews, burning witches, and supressing Science.
The Holocaust was not purely the result of 15 years’ Nazi violence (3rd Reich was not atheist, but based on Aryan / Nordic mythology) – more like 2000 years of incitements to hatred, in the Book of St John and 1st Thessalonians.
At least in the old testament once the mideanites and amalekites had been slaughtered, they were out of their misery. The concept of eternal torment was only introduced by gentle jesus, meek and mild (matt 25:41), ‘believe in me or depart into the eternal flames’. Like I said, it’s the same evil ultimatum made by the 9/11 hijackers, the suicide bombers, the taliban.
No moral action can come from this. What you have is servility,to please a tyrant who could even convict you of thought crime. Yes, people living in such fear would do absolutely anything to avoid the prospect of eternal torment. Even plunge a knife into your own son. You have a moral code of the excuses used at Nuremberg trials, or by the Orthodox murderers of muslims in Bosnia: “I was just following orders”.
Who but a slave wants this to be true? Take comfort in the fact that no event in the first 5 books of the bible ever happened. There was no evidence for an Exodus – imagine, an organisation named after a myth. No evidence for daniel, Solomon and his massive kingdom, no historical records of Jesus apart from the screeds of St Paul and his followers.
david skinner and the taliban, al Qaeda share the same goal: to eliminate the pursuit of happiness, to anihilate reason, the right to self determination. And which all gleefully look forward to the destruction of all we see around us, gleefully wish for this life to end: ‘we love life more than you love death’ – to quote the announcement one of the hijackers said to the passengers shortly before ramming into the Twin Towers.
The danger religion poses to civilisation can be summed up like this: non compatible moral codes, messianic prophecy, plus 21st century apocalyptic weaponry – that’s why we have to keep these fanatics at bay.
Take inspiration from Matt 5:11, 10:22, where Jesus reportedly warns his followers to expect mockery, hatred, or worse. It is a moral obligation to do so – people like david skinner belong in the street, screaming, screeching, and hollering with a placard at the top of their voices, being ignored and feeding the pigeons. To ridicule these people, is the only way to ensure such people stay there and go no further. because I would hate to imagine what britain would be like if david skinner, and the cranks at christian concern for our nation, had their way.
Folks, I have woken up this morning to an email from the Met Police. Like lots of people here I emailed The Emmanuel Centre earlier this week to ask them to refuse to host this hateful conference and to warn that if they don’t there will be trouble. They are clearly so WORRIED that they have got in touch with Met Police.
The email below shows that the Met Police are more than willing to let people demonstrate, HOWEVER if no-one has already done so, someone who will there on the day MUST get in touch with the police and fill out the relevant application. Of course a gathering can occur without doing this, but if so the police would be within their rights to confront or disperse people. Clearly they don’t want to do that. I don’t live in England and can’t be there. Someone needs to see to this immediately. Email Paul McIntyre and arrange it now.
Here’s the text of the email I have received.
Subject: Your communications to the Emanuel centre
Date sent: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:31:43 +0100
It has come to our attention that you have been in communication with the Emmanuel Centre in regards to a conference being held at the location on the 24 & 25th of April.
The reason for my contacting me is that you mention in your communication the need to gather at the location and demonstrate. I wish to bring to your attention that this venue is within the “designated area” under Section 132 of the Serious and Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 and therefore any interest group wishing to protest would need to Apply to the Commissioner, via my department under Section 133 of the SOCPA Act in order to hold their protest.
We would not hinder any protest but ask that a representative completes the application in order to comply with this legislation. We would authorise this protest as we would any lawful protest and would endeavour to facilitate the gathering at the location.
I attach an application form and ask that if you are serious in attending to demonstrate that you complete the form and e-mail it back to this office and send the signed original back to the address below via recorded delivery.
If you do have any queries please do not hesitate to contact this office.
Against Conference on Treatment to Eliminate Homosexuality in Gay Men & Women
Saturday 25 April 2009
13:00 – 15:00
at “The Emmanuel Centre”, 9-23 Marsham Street, London, UK.
For further details of this protest see:
For background see:
Joseph Nicolosi, the main speaker at the above Conference, claims that academic research has verified that his “Reparative Therapy” works and works well, but it has since been found that the “academic research” was flawed: people whose homosexuality was treated were simply approached and asked if the therapy had worked, yes or no. Of course, the vast majority of the self-hating gay men and women who had put themselves under Nicolosi’s therapy simply said “Yes” to their interviewer . . . but many have subsequently been found continuing to exercise their true gay or lesbian identities on the quiet. However, devout Catholic fundamentalist Joseph Nicolosi and his associates continue to ply their trade, “Reparative Therapy”. They are charlatans and frauds.
Money money money…. if there’s a ‘problem’ for god to fix, ‘leaders’ can come forward, control the people suffering for the greater good (church) and make it all better for those that fear…. and make money. Simples!
Same model worked for the gulf war/oil control thing didn’t it? :)
I write for a London gay paper and would like to attend the demo on 25th April. 13.00 or 16.00?
..most religious believers tend to be the ones who are so perturbed by homosexuality, they really ought to blame their GOD if they need to blame anyone. Do they honestly feel that whoever is homosexual asked for IT? Let alone all the abuse that comes with being homosexual..(and at times even worse.) How sheltered and ignorant can people be? It has been said before but people reveal more about their shallowness by thinking that the only way to classify a human being is by their sexuality. Why do people have to know immediately whom you’re attracted by/to? I wonder if they’re basically just jealous and not repulsed at all…I mean look at the perfect example here: Rock Hudson…
Darijen – I was thinking about your idea of peoples shallowness being reflected in their classification of others by their sexuality . . . I have thought about this interms of self absorption or heterosexism. When you mention jealousy – and I see what you are getting at . . . I guess I sort of think it gets complicated, but I think you are onto something there.
Nicolosi was up against Rev Sharon Ferguson this morning in the final five minutes of Today, Radio 4. Go to BBC iPlayer.
Being gay does not define the be all and end all of me – it just means that I happen to fall in love with women! I am a woman who loves to cook, go to the theatre and drink wine – not some sick person defined soley by my sexuality…I am sad that sexual orientation is all that these people see :(
I missed it . . . Haydon tell me more . . . hopefully it will generate furhter interests across the news media spectrum
Of course very few people consult these sort of groups in the UK. It has also given plenty of publicity to respectable and academically credible psychiatrists and psychologists who, of coutse, oppose this nonsense.
The problem these people have is their religion, and it is that they need to give up.
My post seems to have disappeared. I suggested having a real psychology conference, but dealing with the real problem, which is what makes the people like those behind this conference into fundamentalists, and how to cure them.
“Conference to look at curing fundamentalism”
Fantastic, Brilliant, Genius . . .
If ever creachers from the black lagoon were in conferance it is the ‘Gay Cure’ set. Here’s another fine mess you got me into–I can just hear you all saying this to your cranky boss.
Isn’t it all so tiring?! They just can’t help themselves. You know, fear and self loathing can do strange things to people. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for all of us guilt free to watch the religious fight amongst themselves; Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Fundamentalists… but it’s so much easier for these wacko’s to go after a sector of society than to go after the fundamentals of another religion. The earth is almost destroyed by greed and waste of which they have all participated in but rather than fight that destruction they choose to rant about sexuality… sound twisted??! To me that sums it all up; play that violin while the world crumbles around you?!!!. And there’s the pope, fighting birth control as the world’s population grows to such a degree that food and space are almost gone. That sissy and his Prada shoes is destruction incarnate (nothing more out of control than a homophopic homosexual?)!!! Let them fight among themselves; for every Joseph Nicolosi there is a Ted Haggert or a Jimmy Swaggart and a group of blind followers ready to excuse their sexual digressions. Hypocrites all. Stand proud and honest!!
Well Slappa Ma Thigh, Those Clara Clucks have had the MEETIN’ Lets Skip into the nearest Gay Bar for a large Brandy!