Holy Tony For Pope :-)
Good for him. It’s about time some prominent catholic spoke out about this outrage. Im going to go and get it
I agree totally with Blair that the majority of catholics are less bigotted and extremist than the pope.
I would prefer to see a less placatory tone from Blair towards the catholic cult and its viciously evil and extremist leader Pope Ratzinger however. The Pope’s atttitude towards homosexuality is sick and evil. The pope’s attitude towards women is sick and evil. The pope’s attitide towards condom use in Africa is sick, evil and genocidal. By claiming that the catholic cult does any good for the world Blair is in a sense justifying it. Then again thanks to his own murderous illegal adventures in Iraq and his dishonesty about his own extremist beliefs until he left power I would expect this type of placatory tone from him.
I think it’s great that Tony Blair is speaking out like this. It just proves that it’s the Pope who’s personnally bigoted in his homophobia, and the senior figures in teh Church are simply copying him for their own personal ambition. Tony Blair arguably done more for gay rights than any other Prime Minister in the history of Britain, despite his Catholic leanings while in office. I too was brought up Catholic and I’m really disappointed by the homophobia from the Pope etc in recent years.
Well done Tony. Let’s not foget that it was during his Labour government that every law the discriminates against us was repealed and we were provided with legal equality.
Well done Mr. Blair, he’s just confirmed what everyone already knows, Catholics are very gay friendly. I know it may seem odd, but of all my friends here in Ireland, the Catholic ones are the most liberal minded and tolerant and open to gay marriage etc.
Tony B-Liar may have dropped off our radar for a while, but once a scumbag, always a scumbag. The man will say anything to win the vox-pop vote. Let’s face it, the Vatican is hardly the force it used to be, and this is an ideal way of getting a foot on the ladder towards EU presidency, which has been Blair’s ultimate goal ever since he put his name up for PM.
If that lunatic ever gets control of Europe, we are all doomed.
I’m very disappointed with New Labour in many ways, but I can’t deny them the credit for the enormous amount that they’ve done for gay equality.
As a gay Catholic, I applaud Tony Blair for speaking out on this matter.
Nice to see that conversion doesn’t mean unquestioned conformity:)Perhaps it will inspire others to rethink – we can but live in hope.
Tony Blair made those statements in an interview in a gay magazine – Attitude. He is simply doing what he has ALWAYS done – delivering the message the audience wants to hear regardless of whether he personally believes it or not.
Remember this is the man who took the UK illegally into war in Iraq – a war resulting in the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. This is the man who considers his religious belief very important to him. This is the man who said he is answerable to god for his decisions as PM. He is a weasel and a liar and a war criminal and apparently a religious extremist. The fact that he is attempting to downplay the horrific evil of the pope to a gay audience should be a clear signal as to his intentions.
As for the notion that New Labour is gay friendly. Well that is arguable considering the age of consent for gay people was only as a result of a European Court of HUman Rights judgement. And remember Blair attempted to have an opt-out clause for christian charities when it came to adoption. Rememer Blair saw fit to appoint religious extremist Ruth Kelly as ‘Communities minister’
Quite simply he cannot be trusted.
Very suprised but pleaed that Mr Blair has said this!!! I doubt, however, that His nastyness the Arch Homophobe of Rome will take any notice!
Very suprised but pleased that Mr Blair has said this!!! I doubt, however, that His nastyness the Arch Homophobe of Rome will take any notice!
I’m a former Catholic turned away from the Church because of what happened to me as a child, which may very wll be the reason I am Gay today. The Church needs to get out of the 12th Century and listen to its congregations especially Joseph Ratzinger
No doubt Mrs Blair will be putting him back on track with the popes line on this.
Every Catholic I have met has been total homophobes this is just more spin.
RobN, you’ve not thought this out first in suggesting that Tony Blair “will say anything to win the vox-pop vote”. He well and truly knows what Catholicism is all about and he knows that to say what he has said is to fly right in the face of the Vatican, an extraordinarily controversial thing to do. But the RIGHT thing to do.
People berate him, but he and his government (as well as the current Labour government) have done SO much in legislative terms to help us.
I’ll second the motion. Tony Blair for Pope. And while he’s at it he can also allow women to access the reigns of power in the catholic club.
Blair on this as many issues is a hypocrite. When he converted to the evil set of anti-gay and anti-woman beliefs that make up catholicism he had to promise that he believes everything the catholic church believes. That includes the assertion in the catechism that gay sex is inherently disordered. Why should we believe a a word of what he says now? As for someone describing themselves as a gay catholic, that seems to me to indicate very low self esteem – you presumably accept that you are in some way subject to disordered tendencies. If you must believe in the drivel that is Chrisitianity surely you can find a more gay friendly church to do it in :-)
Tony Blair is a new Roman Catholic. He knew about the Catholic position on homosexuality before he so theatrically converted! The man is and always will be a self serving hypocrite. Champagne socialist yesterday Roman catholic today and for his next act…..
If he’d said this in a Catholic paper I might have been impressed but of course he’d never do that – preaching to the choir is what he’s famous for.
Also I dont know on what authority Blair can tell Ratzinger that he is wrong about gay people.
For that matter I dont know on what authority Ratzinger can say the he is in the right. Seems to me the only fools in all this are the people that actually believe him. Isnt it funny how god hates all the same people that Ratzinger does.
By the way, why would anyone take sexual advice from this gruesome elderly virgin anyway?
Of course one is grateful to Tony Blair for the decency of his comments. But to borrow a trope from the quite nasty Pope Benedict, the very existence of humanity and the good economies which support it depends on something more. What a terrible irony that Mr. Blair opposes the Church on gay rights while he should have listened to one of the few bits of real wisdom the former Pope had in opposing the Iraq war. Instead be listened to a bigoted homophobe from Texas. What this shows is that leaders must, if humanity is going to survive, make their decisions based on a few
principles of decency apart from religion. The Iraq War is an absurd conceptual mirror of gay rights, but Tony Blair’s odd trajectory has made is one.
Good for him is absolutely right BUT he needs to do more as do many others than to Just give an interview!! Of the many Catholics I know NONE of them believe the Pope is right on MANY issues and there are many priests who feel the same way, but they fear excommuniction if they speak out.. They truely belive they’ll go to hell something like the terrorists Muslims belive they’ll get 1,000 virgins if they blow themselves up!!! HOW STUPID!! Catholics need to step up and speak out to their leaders.. Episcopalians did it!!
tony bliar is only targeting his audience telling them something that they want to hear. He is a politician and a full time hypocrite so why are people so surprised by his Attitude interview?
If I bought the magazine I would simply read it knowing what a piece of drivel that it is…
Eddy: I thought it through good and proper – To fly in the face of the Vatican is hardly controversial when the majority of Western Europe is turning away from Christian religion. He is well aware this will kick off an argument, but hopes both secularists and Catholics will notice him.
Now will he please do the same to the assorted islamic clerics who openly advocate murdering us. Or would that cost too many votes?
Well done Tony, you are just a wonder of this age, splendid, splendid fellow!!!!
The full text is worht reading for what he also said about Evangleicals and the Leviticus texts
Wow, 26 comments so far. This story has all of us buzzing, and that is great in itself. As for me, a senior who has struggled with my Catholic faith since the age of 8, I admire Tony Blair primarily because his attitude towards the concept of allowing doctrines to evolve remind me so much of another great man, John Cardinal Newman, a forerunner of Vatican II. I will look us the original text. We should all know what he says about Leviticus. Also, I agree that most Catholics (in the pews) are gay friendly. There is a gay man or woman in practically every family I know, and my parents said the same thing about their generation. It’s not true that all Catholics follow every word in the catechism, most of have a very healthy respect for our own consciences. It’s vital that men like Blair, a convert who sees so clearly the faults of the church, speak out about this issue. The rest of us are not afraid of excommunication, we just have never been encouraged to speak about our faith, especially not here in small town Canada. Three cheers for Tony Blair. And let’s keep the comments coming in!
Hummmm I wonder just how many Catholics here belong to DIGNITY??
@Dominick J: Touché!
How weird that people say he is preaching to the converted etc!!?! He is not up for election now – this has gotten him nothing but grief in the press – i think its admirable that he has given this interview and said what he said. He could just shut up like all the other catholics. Good for him hes spoken out.
Hi Jean-Paul. DIGNITY encourages ALL Catholics to speak out. Are you a member of this admirable group. Many people in the UMC speak out against UMC by joining Reconcilling UMC churches.. There are many Jewish Synogogaues who have spoken out against COnservatives by joining Open and Affirming synagauges SO YES most denominations have been asked to speak out and as I said before the Episcopaliians have done it. So in all earnesty I’m not looking for just a “touche’”
The idea of Catholics feeling entitled to follow their consciences makes me laugh. I didn’t see many if any Catholics in the Uk speaking out against the outrageous bigotry of the heriarchy at the time of the civl partnerships bill here in the Uk or the hysteria about gay adoption the church whips up. members of Dignity betray the gay community by professing adherence to a fundamentally homphobic instution and ought to be ashamed of themselves: there are plenty of gay accepting Christian churches.
I agree with you Mark about there being a lot of gay accepting churches, but at least Dignity is trying to fight from the inside within their church organization and their faith, it doesn’t make them betrayers. The Faith they belong to is their faith and they’re doing what they can to make change. You could say the same about UMCs because though they have Reconcilling Churches they Still follow the Mother church and again I’ll reiterate, these congregants are fighting the church from with in. If all of these groups had the leadership like Gene Robinson then there could be change But unfortuantely there has to be a split. So maybe one day a homosexual loving POPE may one day sit on the throne and what happened in the Episcopal Church will happen in the Catholic church (Not likely).. Organizations like UCC are all self governed so they could do what they’re doing. Keeping in mind that a lot more Fundamental UCCs are joining the Coalition and becoming OnA. Cathlics, Lutherns, Presbyterians, etc., etc..have a much different system.
i don’t understand… how stupid do you have to get to be both gay and catholic. Homosexuals still believe in bronze age bullshit stories? We are not that dumb?! You believe in the talking snake and the virgin birth and people walking on water and flying in the sky and the holy ghost (oh my… there’s even a ghost in that retard fairy tale?) Pleeeeeeeze the bible is super bullpies. Primitive neanderthals who were afraid of the Full Moon… Get Evolved. F–k the Pope f–k the vaticANAL f–k religions. It’s supercrap no matter if you are gay lesbian straight bi tri quee etc. The moment you accept absurdities you may very soon engage in atrocities (like avoiding cock becose your shitty trollish profet who died 2000 years ago gets pissed off if you touch the holy baguette) DON’T BE FOOLS DON’T BELIEVE IN RELIGION.
It’s disappointing that Blair’s comments are being dismissed (by some of you who I thought were more intelligent) because of Iraq. This has nothing to do with Iraq – you are using the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem to support your case(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem).
Additionally, so what if the article appeared in Attitude magazine? Do you think Blair only thinks that a message like that will be read by Attitude readers? It got to this website for example. It’ll probably get reported on Catholic websites. He didn’t have to say any of that. He is a clever enough politician to have come out with something vaguely affirming and meaningless if he’d wanted to.
I have problems with Blair and New Labour. I doubt I’ll vote for Labour next year. I’m atheist and think Blair is wrong to be Catholic anyway. But I am grateful for what he and his government have done for gay equality. There could have been more – but he has made a huge difference. Give the guy credit where credit is due. And try and realise how complex politics is. Jeez – you guys would be awful to be in a relationship with – you’d always be harping back to one mistake and ignore every good thing.
And stop kicking people who are on our side. It makes you come across as a ungrateful bitch frankly.
Tony Blair is an oily, two faced, hyprocrite who more or less lied to parliament in order to take us to war.
He’s a bit bored and realising what a shocking error of judgement it was to appoint as a middle east peace envoy the man who has the blood of 100,000 inncocent Iraqis on his hands, he is now looking round for another job.
Step forward Mr President of the EU – coming from a Lisbon treaty near you, another unelected, unwanted, beaurocratic, very, very expensive political position that he’s got his eyes on.
So with one eye on the future he’s up to his old tricks, say anything, to anyone, about anything.
Looks like gays are the “minority du jour” for this stage of his campaign.
Vulpus-Rex, no, Blair does not have blood on his hands. He rid the world and the Iraqi people of an evil dictator. You clearly know nothing of the hatred that Saddam’s own people had for him and you also clearly no absolutely nothing of the utterly cruel and inhuman atrocities he inflicted upon the Marsh Arabs and upon Kuwaitis. I have Kuwaiti women friends who still don’t know what happened to their brothers and fathers during the occupation of Kuwait: just that their brothers and fathers were taken by Saddam and there has never been a trace of them since.
Woolly white liberal Brits who have never lived and worked in the Middle East have no right to jump to judgements about Middle Eastern situations. Those who marched against the Iraq war were arrogant, opinionated, and ignorant fools.
The reactions on here shows just how dumbed down and ignorant the gay community has become. Tony Bliar is first and foremost a war monger and war criminal in the true definition of the terms, and responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths around the world during his term as Prime Minister, not to mention the fact that under his watch all of the instruments of a fully-fledged police state were sanctioned and commissioned. That we should be relishing the words of this odious, deceitful, would-be dictator reveals us to be hypocrites as we cheer him on while turning a blind eye to the utter lack of tolerance and compassion he so often displayed during his tenure, not least to the Iraqi people. Catholicism is Catholicism and it will not changed its warped, twisted view of the world (not just gays) simply because Messiah Bliar has converted and has begun sermonising to the Pope of all people. Just who the hell does this attention-seeking hypocrite with ambitions to become President of the EU think he is fooling as he seeks to curry favour with all sections of society in order to restore his tattered, lowlife reputation??!!
Hmm Codex, um you don’t like him much then?
Hello Dominick J.: Yes, I am a member of Dignity Canada Dignité. Briefly, we are concerned about our church’s sexual theology. We work with other Catholic organizations seeking reform in our church’s leadership and teachings. We have a website.
It might interest you and your friends to know that Dignity USA will be holding its 40th Annual Convention in San Francisco at the end of June. The entire agenda is posted on their website. Both John McNeill and Daniel Helminiak (giants standing on the shoulders of giants) will be guest speakers.
Thank you for the kind remarks about Dignity.
I think the attitude of Tom is pretty strange. Many are thankful to Tony Blair for this bit of decency.
But we should not act the poor who are grateful for every crumb that falls off the table. We have every right to consider this matter complexly, even as to Iraq, because as to the rights issue people like Blair are not doing us poor homosexuals a favor, just giving us our due.
So, Vulpus-Rex, I hope you’re also looking forward to ridding this country of the unelected, beaurocratic, very, very expensive royal family – personally I can’t wait till that slobbering, uneducated, chinless Dauphin, charles takes over: 3 years will be enought for peiople to realise, we need to rid ourselves of this relic of feudalism.
Actually, one of Blair’s redeeming points was his decision to go into Iraq. Yes, it’s 100% about oil. So what? We don’t want the theocrats getting control of it. It’s the parties of God, blowing eachother’s mosques up, who have blood on their hands, not our forces. We need to take them on and eliminate them. It’s them or us.
Thank you Jean-Paul. I think DIGNITY is a wonderful organization and our UCC church, here in N. California, honors Solidarity Sunday every year and have done so ever since our church went OnA a little over 10 years ago.. I will be sure to check out their website here for their 40th annual convention in “the CITY”. It’s not too far from us.. Blessings!!
he may have been rightly criticised for his silly and inexplicable support of bush but at heart blair is one of the most liberal PMs uk has ever had and a brilliant politician. this statement is hugely significant. i have tried telling the same thing to the archbishop of dublin and found him strangely silent but not necessarilly hostile either. methinks there is significant division at senior church levels on this issue. time will tell but for now blair must be applauded for this statement as the vatican cannot so easily dismiss this VIP statement.
I think the first thing David Cameron should do when he becomes prime minister next year is put Tony Blair on a plane to the Hague where he can be tried as a war criminal.
Everyone else in the UK is subject to the rule of Law so I don’t see why when he breaks international law at the behest of his master, Bush, he should be exempt.
A previous commenter is correct, Blair doesn’t have the blood of innocent Iraqis on his hands – he’s up to his neck in it, drenched in the blood of 100,000 people – criminal.
First useful thing he has done for us :)
Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfield, Colin Powell!!! ALL need to be held accountable for the travesty they created on a Soverign Nation that was all Mouth and no action and NO threat to any one!!!
Who Loves Ya Tony? I do: It is very curious the connection between Faith, Church and Politics.
Actually, I liked Adrian T’s first remark when we were all talking about the subject at hand: «Holy Tony For Pope» ! Personally, I’m less interested in checking out Tony’s CV than confirming his attitude that religious doctrines were never meant to be chiseled in granite and that The Vatican should really review its teachings about homosexuality. Doctrines, like the people who wrote them, and that includes the Big Guy (or Gal), are meant to evolve as more and more is discovered about the tremendous mystery we call «life». Problems arise when we worship religion and its doctrines instead of using religions like fuel tanks to launch us into the spiritual realm… and I don’t mean the twilight zone. It comes down to the Golden Rule, that’s all. Of course political analysis, and the way they are expressed, are interesting. They are just beside the point at the moment.
Actually, I liked Adrian T.’s first comment: «Holy Tony For Pope».
At the moment I am less interested in checking out Tony’s CV than in emphasizing his attitude that religious doctrines are meant to evolve as more and more is discovered about this tremendous reality we call «life». Think about it – some religious doctrines regarding sex and homosexuality were formulated at a time when nobody knew the difference between a toenail and a kidney let alone x and y chromosomes. And they hadn’t read the Wolfenden or Kinsey Reports.
As Adrian T. said: «Holy Tony For Pope». The idea that religious doctrines are meant to evolve as more and more is discovered about this tremendous reality we call «life» is the topic at hand, is it not? Think about it – doctrines regarding sex and homosexuality were chiseled in granite at a time when nobody knew the difference between a toenail and a chromosome, and certainly nobody had read the Wolfenden or Kinsey Reports. Blair is stressing a very important truth and many, many Catholic theologians and liberal-minded prelates agree with 100%.
Tony Blair’s comments are welcome only because they embarrass Papenfuhrer Josef Ratzinger and the cult of boy rapists he reigns over. If Blair thinks he’ll change the catholic cult he’s being especially clueless. 15 centuries of criminality disguised as ‘faith’ have proven that. As time passes the roman cult just gets worse while the world of rational people around it puts more and more constraints on them.
It’s not as if these robed thugs wouldn’t like to treat us just like their cousins the ayatollahs. They would. But events, like seeing how efficient the anti-clerical ‘National Razor’ was during the French Revolution scared them. I hope Blair has no illusions that his comments will tone down catholic bigotry, but if he does I know the location of Saddam Hussein’s stockpile of nukes and other WMDs and I’ll be glad to sell it to him. I’ll even throw in the Brooklyn Bridge.
We should demand life in prison for rapist priests and extradition of the bishops who fled to the Vatican to avoid prosecution as accessories to child rape.
We should also demand the convening of an International War Crimes Tribunal to investigate the criminality of Clinton, Bush, Cheney, Powell, Blair and others in their governments responsible for the genocide in Iraq.
Clinton?? Why Clinton? He didn’t wage war on Iraq.. I certainly would along with Bush, Cheney, Powell, Blair and ADD Rice, & Rumsfield. But leave Clinton alone BOTH of them!!
@Bill Perdue: Your comments are priceless, and anyone who even knows about the effects of the French Revolution on the Catholic Church deserves a round of applause from where I’m sitting. Blair’s remarks should have made headlines around the world. Unfortunately, you’re right: his comments won’t change anything; but as long as there is a chance of sensitizing people to our issue, it’s worth a shot (do you really know where Saddam’s stockpile is situated?).
As for the clergy’s sex abuse scandals, the play has not even reached the Intermission, let alone the Curtain. It has already cost the North American RC Church 2.6 billion dollars and has bankrupted at least 3 major dioceses. And American Catholics ain’t pretty when they are furious, believe me.
These criminals will end up in prison because anyone with something between their ears believes in liberty and justice for all.
Jean-Paul, I was around when Wolfenden was deliberating on whether they should allow Homosexual acts in private between concenting adults. Three Men had been tried and Jailed for two years in the late 1950s. Lord Montague, Michael Pitt-Rivers and Peter wildblood. These Heros greatly helped to get the law changed when the fitst changes were introduced. One of the three was the first man in uk history to say in Court; ‘I am a Homosexual.’
Brian: I’ll bet you were one of the first to see Dirk Bogart in «Victim», a historical moment in the British film industry.
Jean-Paul I certainly did see ‘VICTIM’ at the Leister Square Odian in London. Then followed later ‘Lawrence Of Arabia’ at the same Cinima. Speaking of followed, after seeing Victim, I was alone in London and (I had just finnished my National Service) I was hungry for Love when I spotted a guy walking in the funniest fashion I had ever seen (mincing ofcourse) anyway I followed him at a discreat distance untill he disapeared into a building. I also went inside and I had found an Aladins cave of like-minded people. Being more up to date, have you seen Linus Roach in ‘Priest?’ It is very well worth seeing. It is about a Preist attemting to wrestle with his Homosexuality. It’s the first movie I saw two men screwing.
Jean-Paul, Lawrence Of Arabia’s ‘Seven Pillars To Wisdom’ Is a very good read. He describes his Rape by his captors in one of the chapters. My Partner and I visited Lawrence’s grave in Dorcet UK. He was killed on his motocycle nere by. Buried in 1935 and we found fresh flowers and a card on the grave from Austrailia. By the second world war, An Americam living over here named Chips Channon said (as he traveled in the Middle East) the Lawrence Myth was exploded! Chips Channon married into the Guinnis Family, before that, he cruised Parisian Gay establishments.
Great post Bill! The demonic, hollow-eyed Ratzinger has covered up for numerous Priests who have raped and buggered young boys with impunity for centuries. It is the nature of the repressed Catholic beast. Deny him his natural urges and he will seek to act them out with abandon, with the church altar boys making ripe pickings. Alongside his abhorrent stance regarding condoms in Africa, Ratzinger should be in the dock alongside Blair for his treacherous crimes against humanity.
@Jean-Paul – “(do you really know where Saddam’s stockpile is situated?).” They’re models made by Disney and DreamWorks kept in a bunker deep beneath CIA HQ.
In terms of the roman cult they’re hemorrhaging members and money in the US. Their seminaries graduate a few dozen annually and many nuns have admitted to a life time of cloistered lesbian relationships. Although far from death the roman cult is beginning to smell like a mischief of long dead rats. I’m lovin it.
@ Dominick J. – I like most of you posts about strictly GLBT matters but I just have to wonder if you were off planet during the Clinton years.
Clinton and his administration imposed an embargo on food, sanitary supplies and medicines on Iraq. Google Iraq Clinton embargo. There are dozens of articles condemning the embargo and lamenting it 500,000 dead, mostly children and babies. When Leslie Stahl of CBS’s Sixty Minutes asked if those deaths were worth it, Clinton’s Secretary of State Madeline Albright replied in the affirmative! Clinton is a mass murderer.
It’ all there in the record Dominick, just read with partisan blinders.
Bill Perdue, I take it you do’nt like Bill Clinton because of his Iraq stance and I can’t say that I blame you. Iraq was just one small part of Bill Clinton’s total Presedency. I Wonder what you would have done in his place? I am not American and the only President I ever cottoned to was Kennedy in the sixties. In Brittain Kennedy became the darling of the Tyneside Shipyard workers and thats no easy task! His wife Jakie was an Icon. I warmed to Bill Clinton when he freed from Prison a lot of people who were doing hard time for being ‘Guilty By Association’ American forms of Justice, to me have always been harsh and primitive.