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Gays and lesbians ‘more likely to vote Tory’

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  1. Stuart Neyton 2 Apr 2009, 5:10pm

    Is this for real? I’ve never met a gay person who admits to voting tory. They’re still the same when it comes to LGBT issues; just look at their voting records.

    I’d vote Green if they stand again here, otherwise Labour will get my support (after all, they did introduce civil partnerships and equalise the age of consent).

  2. London Gayer 2 Apr 2009, 5:24pm

    Too right it’s for real. And there’s plenty of us who “admit” to voting Tory, more all the time in fact. Gay people as a group ought to find Conservative ideas about liberty and individualism more attractive than the collectivist alternatives.

  3. Brian Burton 2 Apr 2009, 5:39pm

    Ok Guys and Gals, vote Tory and watch all the hard work done for our Gay rights be kicked squarley into the long grass!

  4. London Gayer 2 Apr 2009, 5:41pm

    Heh! Burton, is that the best you can do? You really think those scare tactics work when there are more frontbenchers in Civil Partnerships in the Tory ranks than there are in the Government?

  5. Polls in Brighton indicate that the Green candidate has a real chance of getting eleted there.

  6. Gordon Brown has not voted for a single piece of equalities legislation that would benefit the LGBT communities, whether it’s for an equal age of consent, against Section 28, for the Sexual Orientation Regulations or the Goods and Services Regulations. Brown has voted for none of it.

    Further, I would like to clarify just in case readers may have forgotten:
    The age of consent was only lowered after 16 year-old Chris Morris took the government to the European Court of Human Rights;

    The Sex Discrimination (Gender Reassignment) Regulations were another measure of how Europe forced Labour to legislate- Labour came up with half-measures which only protect trans people who choose surgical gender reassignment and the scope is limited to employment protection;

    The New Labour government fought tooth and nail in the European Courts to maintain the ban on lesbians and gays in the military. They lost, and had to pay compensation to sacked personnel, some of whom had bricks thrown through their windows due to publicity surrounding the case;

    Section 28 was only repealed in late 2003 after a bill from a back-bencher, despite it being a 1997 election manifesto pledge;
    Labour only began to tackle the UK’s outdated sexual offences legislation 6 years after a Bolton man was nearly jailed for having consensual gay sex in his own home, in the ‘Bolton 7’ case. The man was only spared from jail after Amnesty International said they would make him a Prisoner of Conscience;

    The recent employment regulations protecting LGB workers were again another requirement from Europe, but the government attempted and failed to give wide ranging exemptions to religious organisations;
    The end of discrimination in the provision of goods and services was fiercely resisted by New Labour Communities Secretary and Opus Dei member, Ruth Kelly and the Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Exceptions for religious organizations were maintained by both Ruth Kelly and Tony Blair- luckily because of public abhorrence at their campaign, they weren’t able to get away with the exceptions.

    Yes… labour are truly great…

  7. Sister Mary Clarence 2 Apr 2009, 5:46pm

    I’m happy to ‘admit’ it too. One of the reasons you are seeing the overt change in position on gay issues is that there are so many gay poeple in the Tory party these days.

    Equality legisation came from Europe not from Labour and whoever was in power would have had to introduce it – that argument is long dead as far as I’m concerned.

    I am however concerned that what Labour has done economically to this country will haunt us for generations, gay or straight, and I find it incredible that so many gay people who seem to use this site have failed to educate themselves on the politics that affect their lives so greatly.

    How much corruption needs to be exposed before people realise that New Labour was merely a vehicle for Tony Blair’s ambitions and that Gordon Brown is just the patsy that was handed the smoking gun when Blair had set the country into a terminal downward spin?

  8. Tim Roll-Pickering 2 Apr 2009, 5:48pm

    Stuart – the number of openly gay & bi Conservative party activists is such that the party would shut down without them.

    Maybe the problem is that LGBT Conservatives don’t have a problem being openly LGBT amongst Conservatives but do find it difficult to be openly Conservative amongst some LGBT people with political prejudices?

  9. London Gayer 2 Apr 2009, 5:55pm

    Tim R-P, I know when I was on Regent Street watching the Gay Pride march come by last year there was a group of women near me who started screaming obscenely when Boris and the LGBT Tories came in to view at the front of the parade. A man nearby remonstrated with one, saying that even if they had problems with him in the past at least Boris was there now supporting them and they should welcome him on that basis. For his troubles he got an earful of abuse for being a Tory (whether or not he actually was).

  10. Jonny Roland 2 Apr 2009, 5:57pm

    The Conservatives are the natural choice for any gay, lesbian, bisexual or trans person. With the ultimate belief in freedom, both socially and economically, as well as the modern Conservative Party’s proven record on gay rights, there is no need for any worry about a return to the perceived ‘homophobia’ of the 1980s.
    David Cameron is committed to civil partnerships and sees them as equal to heterosexual marriages: he even attended the civil partnership of Alan Duncan MP (Shadow Leader of the House of Commons) to his partner.
    This belief in equal gay rights has been affirmed by every single member of the Conservative Shadow Cabinet.

  11. I’m gay and I vote Tory- so a few respondants have met their first one!

    We vote Tory because we like being treated as equals- no extra nanny state ‘help’ for us….we also like to walk neighbourhoods without being beaten up- breaking news- we feel safer in Tory neighbourhoods like Surrey than on Council Estates in Hull. Conservatives live and let live….more than can be said than in many Labour voting areas.

  12. SECTION 28! How can anyone ever think of voting Tory after that!! David Cameron or the Conservatives have never apologised! Shame on you and them and anyone who votes Tory!

  13. Woooooo I think more questionning is needed there \!!!

  14. Not me, not in this lifetime. I don’t care how many LGBT people are in a political party, the main indicator I go by is a party’s voting record. That tells you if “the proof is in the pudding” or not. So if you think the tories are better for LGBT human rights than the other parties, then I encourage you to do your research and check “The Public Whip” website.

    Short memories, section 28 being just one of them. If I say I’m an apple, and like to eat apples, it doesn’t make me an apple. ;) Likewise, a tory who is LGBT, or who “but I have LGBT friends, so I’m really OK”, doesn’t mean they’ll vote in favour of LGBT rights.

  15. David Cameron voted to retain Section 28 and said that Labour were concentrating on “fringe” issues. The Conservatives are popular because they have no policies. Last week Cameron was stating that he would not make cuts to the NHS, but couldn’t explain how he will achieve this while lowering taxes for the super-rich. I’ll never vote Tory, a front bench made up solely of public school educated persons is hardly representative of the public at large.

  16. Appropriately enough, there is another story posted today: “Police Diversity Guide Derided for Political Correctness”.

    Take time to read the quotes by the Conservative justice spokesman (one of David Cameron’s front bench team).

    Then look up the voting record of other Consevative MPs on LGBT issues (those voting against are overwhelmingly Conservatives).

    Thus informed, cast your vote (bearing in mind whether you really want your basic human rights put in the hands of the the kind of people who make up the committee of local golf club).

  17. “as the modern Conservative Party’s proven record on gay rights.”

    Yes, a proven record of overwhelmingly voting against it. I take it you’ve never bothered to look at the voting records have you?

  18. Jonny Roland 2 Apr 2009, 8:50pm

    Err actually moam I have. And I think you’ll find that since December 2005 when David Cameron and his new team took over the Party has had an excellent record on equality legislation.

    People talking about Section 28 seem to have very selective memories. It was less than half the time between Labour causing mass strikes, rubbish piles in the streets, abundances of dead bodies with no graves, and interest rates at over 16% and Section 28, than between S28 and the present day.

  19. Sister Mary Clarence 2 Apr 2009, 9:58pm

    Can people please get over all this voting against equality shite. Invariably when a political party votes ‘against’ a motion by an opposing party, they have tabled an amendment that they believe improves that motion, that in turn the first party will attempt to vote down.

    Lets see how many motions Labour vote against when they plunge very shortly into the wilderness years

  20. they must be MAD MAD MAD to vote Tory. Don’t they KNOW what the Tories did to us in the passed????? Have they no idea just how homophobic most of them are??? Just look what the Tories did to us in in the passed and see………i repeat, to vote Tory, those guys must be very VERY ill infomed.

  21. vulpus_rex 2 Apr 2009, 10:26pm

    “Labour Good, Tories evil” – a bit like the sheep in Animal Farm really.

    The stench of new labour sleaze is revolting, the economy is falling apart, education has gone to hell in a hand cart, health service is appalling, defence is on its knees, our prime minister is clearly more interested in internationl grandstanding than sorting out domestic problems (as if he could anyway).

    All of the above can be firmly placed at the door of new labour.

    The quicker this bunch of snout-in-trough-crypto-criminals are slung out of office the better, and I can’t wait to vote whichever way I need to make that happen.

    The Tories have my vote.

  22. To all those “proud gay Tories” out there. I just ask one question: if you were a Jew, would you vote for Hitler? When it comes to the denial of human rights, they both stand for the same thing, don’t they?

  23. Solesister 2 Apr 2009, 10:47pm

    SECTION 28 that says it all for me and i would never ever vote Tory in my life. As far Labour are concerned they are Tories in Sheeps clothing, so i am done with voting for them, the Iraq war finished it for me. I will never forget the fight to bring down SECTION 28 and those Gays and Lesbians who vote Tory should remind themselves of who introduced it and hang their heads in shame.

  24. Why is it so many on here assume that it is an automatic fact that if you are gay or lesbian, you are by default a dyed-in-the wool, salt-of-the-earth, union card holding, red flag waving socialist.

    It’s funny how so many gays hate the concept of playing a stereotype, but then expect us to fit in a different one. The only similarity I have with most on here is what I do in bed. That’s all. Why should my sexuality determine or shape my political beliefs any more than what choice of breakfast cereal I eat.

    I am no fan of the Tories, but I would NEVER vote Labour.

  25. Solesister 2 Apr 2009, 10:49pm

    SECTION 28 that says it all for me, those Gays and Lesbians who vote Tory, should never forget who introduced it and should hang their heads in shame. I will never forget the fight to bring down SECTION 28. I will also never vote Tory and i’m done with voting for Labour after Iraq war, and the mess they have the country in, Civil Liberties being eroded etc etc, i have had enough of them, they are only Tories in Sheeps clothing.

  26. @Sister Mary Clarence

    The speeches made before voting and the remarkable ability of a considerable body of the Conservative parliamentary party to find an excuse to vote against absolutely everything suggests otherwise.

    And let’s not forget the grass roots of the party who are even less enlightened than their MPs.

  27. I have been to both Conservative and Labour conferences as an independant observer and I can assure you it’s the Tories who are more open to diversity than Labour. I used to vote Liberal but I am happy to vote and call myself a Conservative now. I look forward to Prime Minister Cameron.

  28. Wow, great comment Gaz – thanks for pointing out all those examples.

    I will be reluctantly voting for the Conservatives this time round, not that it makes a blind bit of difference in my constituency. While it will mean that gay rights will unfortunately take a back seat, we really need to get to grips with this country’s lawlessness and immigration problems. I can’t see this Labour government sorting the mess out.

    On the whole, they have been a government of empty promises, endless spin and religious protectionists. I am thoroughly disappointed that there isn’t a party out there that caters to my own beliefs.

  29. Oh, and P.S. – my Conservative MP has been an absolute wonder in standing up for gay issues. I am in touch with her every so often, and she always gets involved in campaigns I bring to her attention.

  30. Sister Mary Clarence 2 Apr 2009, 11:36pm

    “And let’s not forget the grass roots of the party who are even less enlightened than their MPs.”

    Ivan, my experience of the grass roots party is very different to your perception. Having worked for the Labour Party for quite a number of years I am however well aware of the real face of New Labour and racism, bigotry and homophobia are rife. The have had a few clever people working tirelessly to make sure that you never saw it, but when Chancellor Brown took over all the smart ones left hence we are seeing a complete breakdown of the party and government.

    You can kid yourself as much as you like that the Tories at monsters, but power corrupts and nowhere more so than in New Labour.

    The latest expenses row is a shining example of their contempt for ordinary people, it is there right to take as much money as they can get from the country, they have earned it. Little matter that their incompetence and negligence has got us here in the first place.

  31. The Conservatives are just as bad as Labour when it comes to the financial management of the country these days. Cameron and his team have come up with nothing of value when it comes to financial policies. I’m no fan of Labour, but the Conservatives seem to want their cake and eat it when it comes to equality issues. While they’ll promote front-bench gays, en masse they’ll vote against anything that advances equality and still have a tendency to rely on finding an ‘enemy’ to unite people. Labour are no better but it’s a bit ridiculous to hold up one against the other as being better for gay people.

  32. Masochists…

  33. Brian Burton 3 Apr 2009, 7:14am

    In the old days we just shouted ‘Vote For Ringo’ Screaming Lord Sutch was around in those days. Today, I would vote Mandy If she would only stop pretending she’s not Gay!

  34. stephen kay 3 Apr 2009, 8:10am

    Ruth Kelly was a complete disaster. The tories have actively discriminated against us in the past..yet we live in one of the most free countries on earth when it comes to gay rights. I doubt I will vote Tory I don`t like the fact that they are the last respectable home for homophobes even with davids reforms. The echoes of section 28 are still ringing loud and clear. I must admit tho when I wrote to my Tory MP on gay issues I was pleasantly surprised with the response I got. Maybe the time will come when by-gones will be by-gones and we could work with the tories but they have a lot of work to do. In the latest gay issue on lesbians rights to IVF the entire tory front bench and shadow cabinet VOTED AGAINST IT. So no I wont vote for the tories not now but I won`t say never. As a labour supporter I am however emabrressed that most of the reforms that labour brought in were at the behest of the EU.However Poland is in the EU and hasn`t brought in any reforms so I think that labour didn`t need it`s arm twisted too much.My final word on people would not have as many rights if it had not been for labour.PS: I hope Ruth Kelly will one day come out of her Opus Dei Closet, that woman is a lesbian if I ever did see and know one.

  35. Pete & Michael 3 Apr 2009, 9:31am

    In this household we shall vote Labour, Yes, we will agree that they are not the perfect party but, in the light of recent Conservative voting intentions ie; the Coroners and Justice Bill, Section 58, Gay Adoptions in the Equalities Bill whereas they fail to vote for our equal rights, besides their ignorance that we do indeed exist. Would the Conservative party have given us Civil Partnerships, with all the legal rights of Church Marriage, we don’t think so.

  36. Ryan Haynes - fyi radio 3 Apr 2009, 9:58am

    Section 28 is over. Can we not believe that people and organisations change? If we must taint some group of people with the past then you are responsible for the actions of your parents, your grandparents and those before you – whatever crime they may have committed – or beliefs that they held.

    Equality has been fought to educate people, to help people become tolerant of diversity. If we say that the Tories will never change are we saying that equality is not possible, that people don’t change – that everything we have been fighting for is pointless?

    It seems that some against the Tories are shunning diversity of opinion and that people can change!

  37. I wonder how split along age lines this debate is – is it mainly younger people voting Tory and those who remember the 1980s vowing never to vote for them again? I think arguing that our rights are secure with either major political party is optimistic.

    Johnny said of the Torys “there is no need for any worry about a return to the perceived ‘homophobia’ of the 1980s.” I think this naive in terms of the past (perceived, sir! nay it was; I knew not perceived), the present(homophobia need not return because it has not yet left the building) and the future (our rights are not guaranteed and sexual rights are the first to go when administrations change).

  38. Can we just clear up something please – its completely disingenuous to say that Labour only support gay rights becuase their coerced by the EU ( a point raised earlier). Firstly, even though the government lost a few cases in the late 90’s, the European Court is not like the US Supreme Court -it cannot over rule national laws, it can only flag up incompatabilites (anything else would be unaccptable for national governments..). Secondly, how short are you memories? Don’t you remember how hard Labour backbenchers fought to make sure that there were no religious opt-outs for adoption agencies providing children to gay couples? Yes Tony Blair and Ruth Kelly were ambivalent but OVERWHELMINGLY the opposition was all tory. Please rest assured that the current “nanny state” will be the last of you worries if the tories get elected and you ever decide you want to be a teacher or paediatrician!

  39. London Gayer 3 Apr 2009, 11:06am

    “…even though the government lost a few cases in the late 90’s, the European Court is not like the US Supreme Court -it cannot over rule national laws, it can only flag up incompatabilites (anything else would be unacceptable for national governments..)”


    The Human Rights Act makes it an obligation on our government, self-imposed, to change any law found to be in breach of the ECHR. No other signatory to the ECHR has this, they are able to merely note that they have been found incompatible and then carry on regardless as suits their national interest. Labour has fettered Parliament’s discretion on this front, wrongly.

  40. I want a full apology from the leader of the Tory Party stating that section 28 was wrong, wicked and an evil law which led to people (moslty young school kids) killing themselves or loosing their jobs!!!! It is a shame on this country’s human rights record! Even then, I would vote Lib dem anyday rather than the nasty Party; Leopards do not change their spots and those responsible are still in the Party even if the wicked witch of the West is no longer in charge!!!!!!

  41. vulpus_rex 3 Apr 2009, 2:31pm

    I want a full apology from the leader of the Labour party for the ridiculous, hysterical smear that its party cling to about clause 28. Quasi-psychotic exaggerations of its actual, real effect are bordering on the delusional and as any good psychotherapist will say – you really need to put it behind you.

    Even then, I would still vote Tory as they are the only chance of ridding us of the serial, nay practically criminal, incompetence and sleaze of the labour party.

  42. @Jonny Roland

    You clearly haven’t.

    More than two thirds of Tories voted against anti-discrimination legislation.

    The vast majority of Tories (including Cameron) voted against allowing lesbians IVF.

    All but 5 Tory MPs voted against laws banning inciting hatred toward gays.

    These are all recent, the last one was only a couple weeks ago! It’s not just Section 28, the Conservatives have consistently and continue to vote against Labour’s equality legislation.

    And Gaz, don’t give me this bulls–t about all Labour’s pro-gay laws “coming from Europe”. Blair spoke in favour of equalising the age of consent back in 1994, the Lords repeatedly blocked Labour’s attempts. Also people like Ruth Kelly make up a small minority of Labour MPs, they make up the vast majority of Conservative ones. Has Brown ever voted against gay rights? No. Has Cameron? Yes, mulitiple times and he continues to do so.

    Tories here only like to argue with selective picking of facts, they never cite voting records because it would completely demolish their claims.

  43. Andy & Steve 3 Apr 2009, 3:04pm

    Must be rich poofs as there is no other reason to vote Tory than out of self interest….:)

    Given the “sit on your hands and do nothing” attitude of Camoron-The-Toff as opposed to the G20 success of Gordon-Squinty-Brown I know who I would rather be in power right now, and that ain’t Camoron and his fag Osborne….. (fag = public school slang).

    They are still the nasty party – just a little more polished on the outside….

    PS Moam – excellent rebuttal to the Tory types lurking here….

  44. Sister Mary Clarence 3 Apr 2009, 3:21pm

    I think some of the Labour trolls need to cast their minds back a bit further. The Council of Europe was the realisation of the vision of Winston Churchill (Cons), from which was borne the European Convention of Human rights and latterly the Equalities Act.

    Cherry picking banner headlines hardly gives an insightful view of politics, particularly when the one and only thing that Labour is any f*cking good at is spin.

    So, I’d just like to thank all of you on here banging on about how good Labour is. Its is your blinkered view of the world that has led this country to the economic disaster it is facing, the hundreds of thousands who have lost and will lose their job are down to people like you. The kids that will go hungry and the people that lose their homes – none of this could have happened without stupid people that can’t see past their own self interest – f*ck the rest of the country, as long a Labour make a big noise about gay rights. Nice attitude folks – me, me f*cking me!!

  45. @All the ‘Gay Tory’ posters…

    What pathetically short memories you all have.

    Labour certainly aren’t fabulous — they’ve made many mistakes, and frankly, I feel quite nauseous at the sight of Tony Blair these days…

    But the Tories are a hell of a lot worse — a handful of parliamentarians apart, they’re STILL the Nasty Party at heart.

    Don’t you remember just how bloody awful the Tory years ’79-’97 were???

  46. Andy & Steve 3 Apr 2009, 4:00pm

    Sister Mary Clarence

    You are clearly unhinged to say the least. It is the greedy TORY VOTING AND SUPPORTING bankers and brokers, those arch exemplars of your FREE TRADE – GREED IS GOOD ethos, who have buggered the world economy and no-one else.

    Thank goodness we have a Keynsian leader in power at the moment who will emasculate the frikking idiots that caused the problems in the first place.

    Of course as a Tory you’ll no doubt be weeping into your hairshirt as your off shore hoards of cash are revealed and taxed accordingly.

    This survey is complete pants and does not reflect the normal aspirations of us shirt lifting types. Now go back to Tory Central Office and start shredding all those offshore bank statements, there’s a good nasty party supporter ….

  47. Section 28 is NOT over. The aftermath is still being felt by every homophobically bullied child. I will never entertain the thought of voting tory until they issue an apology for S28 and come up with better measures to tackle homophobic bullying than the other parties. Tories always lag behind on equalities issues. If they could get one step ahead they would have a flood of new supporters. To do this they need to have policies to entrench anti-homophobic bullying policies into all schools monitored by Ofsted. They also need to allow gay marriage, not just civil partnership, so that religious gay couples are not discriminated against. Also they need to show that they intend to exert strong pressure through foreign policy on countries with homophobic regimes, from Poland to Zimbabwe.

  48. Lesley Hedges 3 Apr 2009, 5:20pm

    It seems that Labour and the Conservatives are doing a good job of persuading your readers that there are only two parties. The next elections are for European MPs. The group the UK Tories have just joined voted against a new law to protect LGBT rights Ias well as other groups). I’m standing as a Green candidate in Yorkshire and our lead candidate though he’s straight was the first UK candidate to sign up to ILGA’s pledges. I can’t believe anyone would vote Tory after section 28. Bullying in schools can lead to suicide or a lifetime of low self esteem and depression and they DARED call my family a ‘pretend’ family. Many of the MPs who voted for it are still there. Look at the voting records on LGBT issues to see how many voted against lowering the age of consent, civil partnership and other LGBT basic rights. Jean Lambert the Green MEP for London is on the LGBT working group doing really good work and there are 2 gay men on the London list. The Green Party has the best policies for us.

  49. vulpus_rex 3 Apr 2009, 6:17pm

    Reading through the comments here what I find so utterly damning for the labour party is that if you take away support for themn based on equality legislation what is left?

    Nothing. Not one pro-labour supporter on here has been able to muster a cogent argument for supporting labour without reference to gay rights. Why is that? Quite simply because they can’t.

    Look at the economy, heatlh care, the education system, defence, civil liberties, social cohesion – all have been decimated under labour. It is impossible therefore to construct an argument to support them on any of these grounds.

    Take away Equality Legislation and then what is left?

    Sadly, only insults.

    It is a real shame that some of the inarticulate bullies on here have to resort to the “if you vote tory you must be thick” line of argument, but I suppose if you are trying to defend the utterly indefensible, what else to you have but bullying insults?

  50. Brian Burton 3 Apr 2009, 7:48pm

    Never mind Guys and Gals, the 1922 Committy will solve all your Gay Concervative aspirations, so vote you Children of Pink!

  51. @vulpus_rex

    We had a decade of high economic growth, low inflation and low unemployment under Labour. The Tories, despite being in power many more times, didn’t deliver that once.

    The latest OECD forecast shows the UK escaping with a shallower recession than the US, Japan, Germany and Italy.

    We had record investment in public services. Waiting times in the NHS have been sharply reduced and the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study found that our kids were in the global top 10 in both respective fields.

    So yes there are plenty of other reasons to vote Labour but even so I don’t see why it’s so wrong for gays to find LGBT rights important.

  52. “I’ve never met a gay person that votes Tory” – Ah bless – what a funny little world Stuart and his red-rinse old dears inhabit! Its a generational thing Stuart – us younger gay men (younger in body and/or in mind) who look forward with optimism and will be voting in a new Tory government in our 1000s next year have no interest in harking back to all that class-war, gays-as-victims, blah blah politics of the last century and the 1980s – who is interested in the 1980s? Life, the world and politics has moved on – blue is the new red.

    The 21st Century Conservatives are very much in tune with the 21st Century gay man and woman – look at any london borough council or the Mayor’s office or local conservative party office and you will find scores of conservative gay politicians, advisors and organisers. So don’t look back and be a bitter old has-been, look forward and join the in-crowd, vote Conservative!

  53. Now there’s a funny thing, I was just about to make the same claim about some of the tory apologists on here.

    Hyperbole overload I should say. But hey, why admit your wrong when if you shout loud and long enough eventually you’ll bully your opponents into silence.

    And by the way, sister mary clarence, the exact same thing happened under the slag thatcher, who did you blame then?

  54. @Thomas

    You can delude yourself all you want but the Conservative party you speak of doesn’t exist.

    The ’21st Century Conservatives’ voted against almost every pro-gay measure brought in by this Labour government. The Modern Blues voted against allowing gays to adopt, repealing section 28, the banning of discrimination in the provision of goods and services and the banning of homophobic hate speech. These things didn’t occur in the 80s they all happened in the last 9 years.

    So they have some token poofs, who gives a toss when the vast majority of their MPs vote against equal rights? I’m also a ‘young gay man’ and I don’t have any hangups about the 80s, Thatcher or class war but I’ll be voting Labour because I’ve bothered to look at the facts and not just be taken in by the empty words of that empty suit David Cameron.

  55. I’m in this horrible situation of criticising the Conservatives – which, in this debate seems to make me look like a Labour supporter. Which I’m not. But I can’t believe the Tories here who are saying that the conservativs are in some way pro-gay. Once you get past Cameron’s promotion of some open gays to his front bench, his MPs really don’t want to do anything advance gay equality. It’s there in their voting record for everyone to see. And once you get into the general world of political policy, the conservatives are offering nothing different to Labour. They’ve suggested precisely nothing to practically improve our financial situation and if you start breaking down their crime and punishment policies, we simply can’t afford them. And once you get into foreign policy, they’re simply witless. All the stuff the conservatives are criticising labour for are the exact same things that the conservatives would do. Cameron seems sincere in what he says, but once you look at his policies, it all falls apart. It’s political drivel.

  56. Brian Burton 4 Apr 2009, 6:45am

    ‘aint yo heard Thomas? Your great Concervative Party is still run by face-less ‘Men In Grey Suits’ irrispective of whoever is leading the Party! -You caught on yet mate?!!

  57. Sister Mary Clarence 4 Apr 2009, 8:03am

    @ moam – not going to write much because I can’t be asked right but …

    “We had a decade of high economic growth, low inflation and low unemployment under Labour”

    Could you please explain the economic growth? We have growth in the financial sector, and we are all painfully aware now of why. A decrease in governement regulation caused disasterous consequence.

    Selling our bullion reserves and masking public spending through PFI and PPF initiatives helped keep inflation low, and three million on incapacity benefit helped give a semlance of low unemployment

  58. The people at the top of the Tory party may be OK on gay rights, but the grass roots is full of dyed in the wool traditionalists.

    The Tory voting record is shocking on gay rights: civil partnerships, Section 28 (3 line whip), age of consent, repealing ban on gays in the forces… Too many fanatics in groups like the Cornerstone Group, the Conservative Christian Fellowship, too. I do not trust them.

    However, we’ve got the economy to think about….. and I haven’t got much good to say about Labour on that score.

  59. Pumpkin Pie 4 Apr 2009, 10:41am

    I’ll be voting Liberal Democrat again.

    Even if it was just between Labour and Conservative, the voting records say it all for me – definitely wouldn’t be voting Tory. And to the whose who say it’s selfish of me to vote based on self-interest: A) It isn’t, asking someone to put their rights at risk for the sake of the greater good is what’s selfish; B) I’m not voting out of self-interest. I’ve been a staunch supporter of minority rights for as long as I’ve known what they were – since even before I knew I was a minority! I will always vote for the party I feel to be the most moral. I would rather live in an impoverished, moral country, than in an affluent, immoral one. I’d prefer to do the right thing, not the easy thing.

  60. I don’t think that either of the main parties have a glowing record on gay rights, with obligations being forced on them from Europe. Having voted Labour all my life, I will be voting Tory at the next election. Setting gay rights aside for a moment, my main concerns is the increasingly authoritarian nature of our current government, and an increasing contempt for us, the ordinary people, by the ministers and MPs we choose to govern the nation on our behalf. They alone created a “new establishment” or a “new elite” that looks down on everyone else with their cameras, spies and internet surveillance. And this new, censorious establishment even extened into our own community with figures like Pink News’ previous editor.

    We’ve had an era of looking inwards at ourselves, the only “reality” being the artifice of Jade’s face on our flat-screen tellies in our comfortable homes that we got in debt to pay for. Now it’s all gone wrong, and people are looking outward once more and saying: “Hey, you’re our public servants. You are accountable to us!”

    The Tories, for all their faults, do believe in freedom, if nothing else!

  61. Justin Hinchcliffe - Gay Conservative and proud of both! 4 Apr 2009, 2:39pm

    “Ken” – are you for real? “A bit like (gay voting Conservative) Jews voting for Hitler”. What a moronic statement. As for Stuart Neyton, I suggest he gets out more and broadens his circle of friends. Most gay people I know live normal lives and, yes, do vote Conservative! The only people who tend not to are the bitchy ill-infomed scene queens fighting old battles. The Conservative Party has change and moved on under David Cameron. These queens are stuck in the past. Thankfully, they are decreasing in numbers.

  62. Brian Burton 4 Apr 2009, 4:15pm

    I hate armchair Polititions. Go and get elected you lot!

  63. I’ve voted Labour before but after the last few years will now be voting Liberal. The Tories are the Nasty Party and people who vote Tory – well you’re nasty too. Sadly, being gay does not make you immune to being a small-minded, seflish, me-first reactionary, and I’ve met a few gay Tories who are just like that – rather bizarre creatures – laughable really. Very pompous of course, and deeply deluded that they are part of the establishment. Straight Tories, the majority whom are homophobic are laughing and laughing and laughing at them.

  64. The town council where David Cameron MP has his constituency office is Racist & Homophobic:
    (Mayor of Witney, Cllr Alvin J Adams – Conservative)

    google search this:
    “muslim” (no hit’s)
    “black” (no hit’s)
    “sexual orientation” (no hit’s)

  65. All of the Conservative Party Shadow Cabinet is just as bad!!!
    “church” (36 hit’s)

  66. Sister Mary Clarence 4 Apr 2009, 7:37pm

    Tom, how you can say that people are selfish for voting Tory I cannot understand. Quote a number of people who have stated that they will vote Tory have made it clear that equality is not the only issue they will be considering at the ballot box. The devastation that they have caused to our economy and others around the world, their corruption, lack of accountability – every aspect of their government in fact, and yet it is the Labour supporters that are making it very clear that the one deciding factor for them is the way we were treated under Section 28.

    That is the ‘selfish’ view surely?

    I’m sure that we all want equality, but it is the only thing the Labour supporters on here can hold up as a reason for us to vote Labour. What about all of the other issues they have not been able to address and how they affect people who are not gay? Do we share no solidarity with those people that are losing their homes, losing their jobs, losing their pensions, losing everything they have strived for many year?

    Clearly you and your Labour chums are quite happy to jettison these issues as long as you get what you want. I think you’ll find that most of the Tories on here are taking a less blinkered view. We will be voting for a party that can deliver the equality reforms that are still needed and can also ensure that we have functioning schools and hospitals, that commerce can once again flourish, that there are jobs for people to enable them to support their families.

    You might actually want to take a good hard look at who is actually being selfish

  67. Bi bloke who votes Conservative 4 Apr 2009, 8:39pm

    Tom – you’re clearly a nasty and prejudiced person yourself. Think the Lib Dems are nice people? You heard about how the Libs smeared Peter Tatchell in the Southwarky by-election? Nice is certainly not a word I would use to describe the Lib Dems!

  68. I was not expecting to see such naïve voting habits from a community that should know better than to fall so utterly for Cameron’s spurious “diversity”. Do you honestly expect the Tories to represent you on any grounds other than a handful of gay front-benchers plucked out of Policy Exchange or hand-reared from Eton? You’re still dealing with elitists who readily abandon their electorate – namely its working-class majority, rallied (as I believe was said on this page) against some invisible enemy. It’s historically been Boers, immigrants, gays, and now it’s the economy and – by happy extension – Gordon Brown. Sleazy bastards.

    But go on, vote for them and watch as state provision falls to privatisation, tax reductions are made possible only through dramatic cuts in public spending, education becomes increasingly reliant on faith schools and public schools, the NHS is industrialised… oh, and gay rights would certainly be pushed to the back of the agenda, if that’s really the extent of your thinking when it comes to choosing a party to vote for.

  69. NO WAY!!!! I will never vote for the Tories. Anyone remember Section 28? It was under the Labour government that we got the age of consent lowered, Section 28 repealled, the Civil Partnership Act introduced etc. Would these have happened had the Tories won the 1997 General Election? I don’t think so!

    The Tories are just trying to win ‘gay’ votes cos no-one else would vote for them. A few years ago, The Tories tried the same with the pro-EU voters by attempting to become more ‘Euro-friendly’, but it backfired big-time as it cracked opened big divisions within the Tory party.

  70. vulpus_rex 5 Apr 2009, 11:12am

    The hysterical bleating of the labour supporters in here would be hilarious if it weren’t so querulous and needy.

    With ever increasing desperation the claims become more and more ludicrous “the Tories will drink the blood of your first born” etc.

    The country is on the brink of bankruptcy – last week the president of Chile shamed Gordon Brown on international television by giving him a lesson in good economics whilst back home Mandy is softening the media up for a further shaming visit from the IMF.

    The country is so broke after Brown’s spending madness that the Bank of England has been reduced to printing money – to spend on crap like ID cards that nobody wants.

    How come it took a Labour government to make a free universtity education the exclusive preserve of the rich – very socialist!

    How come Gordon can spend billions of pounds on wars but can’t find the money to make pensioners comfortable?

    The many is giant, lying, deceitful, sleazy, incompetent hypocrite.

    When it costs £50 to buy a banana though will the Labour loving sheep in here still be quite so keen on Brown’s efforts to turn the country into Zimbabwe?

  71. Democracy, the right to self determination, equality, are priceless ‘King Wolf’. I don’t care how much it costs, I am glad the forces are there in Afghanistan. (A shame they have handed over power to mysogynistic extremist thugs who are squashing democracy and womens’ rights, and a fraudulent two-faced president by the way). And good that a lot of people on here won’t just simply forgive and forget institutionalised Tory bigotry.

  72. vulpus_rex 5 Apr 2009, 2:52pm


    Vulpus = fox; wolf = Lupus

    Fairly basic latin, but I guess they probably don’t teach that in the labour created sink schools nowadays – far too elitist!

  73. Brian Burton 5 Apr 2009, 5:39pm

    Ah! all you Children of Pink should be thankfull that you can vote in any General Election. If the ‘Mad Mullars’ take over as they have been asked to take over the BBC Religious Section? Well, what then EGH?

  74. Maxime vero, v rex, mea culpa.

    Though arguably, you’re a wolf in fox’s clothing. To quote Ms Widdecombe, there’s… something of the night about you. take it as a compliment ;-)

  75. James - Birmingham 6 Apr 2009, 1:41am

    I’m no fan of New Labour, but Gay Tories are either deluded or wilfully ignorant. The Tory party may court our votes but has never truly allied itself with gay rights or the rights of minorities. Imbeciles with very short memories may point to small signs of gay friendly developments in their ranks, but any credible analysis of their voting record makes it clear they’re as homophobic as ever (second only to the Ulster unionists). As for their supposed competence with the economy – the seeds of our current economic meltdown were sown by Thatcherism & Reaganism – they deregulated the financial markets, paved the way of corporate excess and boardroom greed etc. I’ll never trust the Tories. I reserve particular disdain for gay Tories – they’re like turkeys voting for Christmas or is it Chrismoyles!

  76. Sister Mary Clarence 6 Apr 2009, 6:26pm

    “As for their supposed competence with the economy – the seeds of our current economic meltdown were sown by Thatcherism & Reaganism ….”

    Pray tell James what drugs you’re one?

    Chancellor Brown promised us an end to boom and bust. Of course we thought it was the ‘bust’ he had done away with, but dear God no – it was the ‘boom’

    Labour have had over a decade to put behind them the Thatcher years, and yet as soon as things go tits up its all the Tories fault. Pathetic.

  77. Don’t fall for the same nonsense many in the U.S.A. did. After Reagan and Bush and Clinton and Bush, we all had enough concrete evidence of the failure of the Republicans’ financial theories, including “trickle-down”, which were nothing more than tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy and cut services for the ultra-poor. Now, their theories of deregulation and non-enforcement, combined with their unprecedented tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy and for corporate raiders during wartime (!), have produced catalysts for world financial ruin. Please don’t fall for the nonsense. Please don’t suddenly get amnesia, like we Americans do regularly. The Tories are NOT friends of gays, Labour is. Fix Labour to fulfill its promises to us, don’t ally with our declared and demonstrated long-term enemies, the Tories. Pick off our demonstrated enemies, no matter their affiliation, one at a time instead of wiping out our investment in the entire Labour party. Do not listen to those who are self-interested for mainly financial reasons in recruiting for the Tories. You can imagine how I feel about American gays who join our “Tory” party, the Republicans. We also have a “new Democrat” group within the Democrats. Because of its policy similarities to the Republicans, it has been taking severe hits since it claimed the 2006 victory as its own.

  78. lithotomist 6 Apr 2009, 11:45pm

    One of the sad Tories above claimed “Gordon Brown has not voted for a single piece of equalities legislation that would benefit the LGBT communities” – but the truth is, he voted for the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations — 19 Mar 2007 – and I believe the Tories officially opposed that legislation and 83 of their MPs turned up to try to stop it. David Cameron, Tory leader, tried to keep Section 28, has opposed Labour laws on adoption by gay couples, and frankly has a dodgy voting record on gay rights. Meanwhile, the Tories are trying to do a deal with the homophobic Ulster Unionists – do you really delude yourself into imagining they will defend the rights of LGBT people when the chips are down ?

  79. James - Birmingham 7 Apr 2009, 12:49am

    Wow Sister Mary Clarence your analysis is so incisive – I must be ‘on drugs’ if I think the free market economic reforms, deregulated financial systems, ludicrous over valuation of the housing market, and the culture of selfish individualism propagated by Thatcher in the 80s could possibly be related to our current difficulties – how crazy of me! I mean how could this lead to corporate abuse of power, market distorting share options and board room pay hikes, exploding property values crashing into massive toxic debts and a global failure in banking systems. These world wide problems could only have originated in the UK because of that nasty Gordon Brown and those naughty New Labour numpties. They let the economy go to ruin while they pursued their silly PC social reforms – equalising the age of consent, scrapping clause 28, introducing civil partnerships, employment equality, adoption rights, anti-hate crime legislation and other nonsense. Lets go back the to good old days of Tory rule when the gays knew their place instead of flaunting their sexuality, when businesses weren’t tied down by stupid equality regulations and could sack poofs for mincing too much, when they didn’t have to pay anyone a minimum wage – when Britain was great for business! (Oh yeah and there was massive unemployment, and the Tory government practically ignored the AIDS crisis for years because it only affected queers…)
    PS Sister M, What’s your drug of choice? – I’m guessing it’s a potent mix of reality distorting ‘Daily Mail’ and selective amnesia inducing Rohypnol.

  80. Brian Burton 7 Apr 2009, 12:20pm

    What a sintilating answer to the dear Sister’s imaginings James of Birmingham. Politics is fed by the imagination by which we become wiser when we know better.

  81. Tim Roll-Pickering 7 Apr 2009, 3:16pm

    lithotomist & James – Birmingham: You are confusing the Ulster Unionists with the Democratic Unionists. The latter are the party that (until recently) was led by Ian Paisley and have a record of campaigns such as “Save Ulster from Sodomy” and expelling an Assembly Member from the party for having gay sex in a hotel room.

    There are many LGBTs who have supported the Ulster Unionists precisely because they have found the laws the UK have brought to Northern Ireland to be more progressive and sooner than the Republic of Ireland (which Labour still wants to force the province into). The recent homophobic remarks by the DUP’s Iris Robinson did much to revitalise the UUP’s opposition to them.

    As for the rest, I think others have said it best.

  82. Sister Mary Clarence 7 Apr 2009, 10:44pm

    ” … if I think the free market economic reforms, deregulated financial systems, ludicrous over valuation of the housing market, and the culture of selfish individualism propagated by Thatcher in the 80s could possibly be related to our current difficulties ….”

    Actually boys what I think it that in moderation and used by people that understand them free market economic reforms have the potential to benefit the country, however what is key is that those people implementing them do need to have a modicum of understanding of them in order for it not to be a disaster. Cue New Labour.

    I also think that an overly regulated financial sector is not necessarily a good think and that there was a point when deregulation, again in moderation, was needed. However once the needed deregulation had taken place, it needed to stop and to continue to deregulate to the point that there was in fact no regulation would be a disaster. Cue New Labour.

    As for over valuation of the housing market – that’s surely the sort of problem that arises from lack of supply – probably why it has spiralled out of control under Labour, who committed to bettering the lives of the poor, have neglected to build almost a single new council homes.

    And as to that culture of selfishness – not read the papers for the last 11 years then? It you want selfish, look no further than almost the entire government who have skimmed tens of millions off the British taxpayer to fuel their astronomical expenses claims.

  83. Andy & Steve 8 Apr 2009, 3:00pm

    One line from a CONSERVATIVE campaign in the late 1960’s (NOT that long ago):

    “If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour”

    Of yes, the party of equal rights…. bullshit. The Tories are and always will be the party of narrow white middle to upper class self interest.

    Just look at the Daily Mail (the Tories mouthpiece) to see the true “politics” behind the Camoron glitzy spin.

    As some have said “it’s a generational thing” – indeed it is. Younger shirt lifters won’t have the experience of Tory blue rinse bigots in full flood – but there is no excuse for not knowing what the party you hail so loudly has done for gay equality i.e. Zilch.

    IMHO being a Gay Tory is like being a Gay Catholic – they are incompatible in almost every single respect.

  84. Andy & Steve 8 Apr 2009, 3:06pm

    An evidence based quote:

    “But perhaps the most serious evidence of a moderniser/traditionalist split within the
    Conservative party occurred twelve days later on 19 March 2007, when Tory MPs divided 29/85 against the draft Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007, which brought into force the Equality Act 2006 provisions allowing adoption by gay
    couples. A further 82 Conservatives did not vote.

    The problem was not the size of the split – numerically, the Conservatives had been more divided in the past – but that their leader David Cameron was one of the 29 Tory MPs voting in favour of gay adoption.

    Just 15% of Conservative MPs joined their leader in the aye lobby in favour of the measure.”

    Yep, that’s a Party committed to sexuality equality – if you’re so blind to reality that voting Tory seems like a good idea ;)

  85. Sister Mary Clarence 8 Apr 2009, 7:45pm

    “British job for British people”

    National Front …. oh no, sorry – Gordon Brown!!

  86. James - Birmingham 8 Apr 2009, 9:25pm

    Sister Mary Clarence has totally lost touch with reality, poor dear. Thatcher’s reforms enabled people to buy their own council houses, and Tory government’s have consistently undermined social housing and failed to build enough new houses. The over valuation of the property market had very little to do with lack of supply – Thatcher’s housing reforms turned it in to a speculative market so a housing ‘bubbles’ became inevitable.
    You’re waffling about regulation/deregulation of the financial sector and using free market reforms “in moderation” suggests you lack even a “modicum of understanding” of these issues. Your contribution so far could be summarised as ‘the Tories were clever and did things right, Labour are stupid, went too far and messed everything up’. In fact that seems to be main thrust of all your utterances on this subject and I’m glad you haven’t let the facts get in the way of your ‘argument’.
    As for Labour MPs abusing expenses – that’s perfectly true, but it also applies to many other opposition MPs including the Tories who practically invented sleaze. Or were you too off your tits during the last Tory governments to notice.

  87. James - Birmingham 8 Apr 2009, 9:48pm

    Sister Mary Clarence has totally lost touch with reality poor dear.
    Just a few pointers: Housing ‘bubbles’ are an inevitable consequence of the Thatcherite reforms that created a speculative housing market – its not just lack of supply that inflates values. Thatcher introduced wholesale destruction of social housing mainly by selling it all off – and successive Tory governments failed to invest in social housing, although admittedly Labour could have done much more to rectify this.
    Your incoherent waffling on regulation/deregulation of the finance sector and free market reforms clearly demonstrate that you lack even “a modicum of understanding” of these issues. Its just another iteration of your clumsy ranting that ‘the Tories were/are great, Labour messed up all their good work and are to blame for everything’. I’m glad to see that you haven’t let the facts get in the way of your Tory=good, Labour=bad ‘argument’. I imagine you must foaming at the mouth under your true blue wimple.
    On the subject of expenses the government have been shite, but then so have many opposition MPs including the Tories who practically invented sleaze. Maybe you were so off your tits ranting about Labour you didn’t notice all those Tories with their snouts in trough.

  88. Sister Mary Clarence 9 Apr 2009, 12:18am

    You’re right James, I did get in a muddle and overlook all that, however I didn’t overlook all this …

    “LABOUR peers are prepared to accept fees of up to £120,000 a year to amend laws in the House of Lords on behalf of business clients, a Sunday Times investigation has found.”

    “Four peers — including two former ministers — offered to help undercover reporters posing as lobbyists obtain an amendment in return for cash.”

    Sunday Times – January 25, 2009

    I can only assume you did.

  89. Sister Mary Clarence 9 Apr 2009, 12:23am

    Didn’t overlook this one either ….

    “Devastating secret documents suggest Tony Blair did not tell the truth over Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone’s �1million donation to Labour in 1997.”

    “Government papers released yesterday under the Freedom of Information Act appear to show Downing Street deliberately tried to conceal the way that Mr Blair gave orders for Formula One to be exempt from a tobacco advertising ban just 24 hours after meeting Mr Ecclestone at No 10.”

    “When the controversy erupted ten years ago, Mr Blair said his decision had nothing to do with the meeting with Mr Ecclestone and leaders of Formula One’s FIA governing body on October 16, 1997, and was taken ‘two or three weeks’ later.”

    But the documents show that he wrote to Health Minister Tessa Jowell the next day to press for a permanent exemption for Formula One from the proposed EU ban on tobacco adverts.

    And Mr Blair’s chief of staff Jonathan Powell was even quicker off the mark and phoned her straight after the Ecclestone meeting to tell her the Prime Minister had ruled she must give in to Mr Ecclestone’s demand.

  90. Sister Mary Clarence 9 Apr 2009, 12:24am

    Or this one ….

    “The CPS will spend the next few weeks studying the evidence before deciding whether there is evidence to bring charges against Mr Abrahams or key Labour officials.”

    “Last year it emerged that Mr Abrahams had donated money to Labour using a series of conduits including his secretary and a builder. The property developer was one of the party’s biggest backers and gave £670,000 but his identity had been secret.”

  91. Sister Mary Clarence 9 Apr 2009, 12:26am

    Or even this one ….

    “Harriet Harman, the Labour deputy leader, has come under growing pressure to reveal the precise circumstances of the “illegal” £5,000 donation she received from the property developer at the centre of the party’s fundraising scandal.”

  92. vulpus_rex 9 Apr 2009, 11:30am

    The list of Labour Sleaze is practically endless. There is not one area of life in the UK that they have not debauched with their penchant for dishonesty and money grabbing.

    To me the choice is clear – vote for some change and hopefully a government which governs in the interest of the people who pay their wages.

    Or vote for more New Labour sleaze and a government with its snouts so firmly in the trough they are blinded by the filth in which they are mired.

  93. James - Birmingham 10 Apr 2009, 1:57am

    Gee thanks for the news digest – and your point is? Oh that’s right Tory = good, Labour = bad. Silly me for not trawling news websites to cobble together ‘evidence’ to illustrate spurious arguments like you have. Like I said, the Tories practically invented sleaze. If some New Labour politicians went on to perfect its hardly surprising . Oh and Sister Mary Clarence, despite your desperate finger pointing what happened to you’re rabid ramblings about Labour and Gordon Brown being responsible for the credit crunch? Is it because there is no credible evidence to support this in your Deluded Nun’s Scrapbook of Labour Sleaze?
    As for you ‘Vulpus Rex’, you really are a mangy rabid fox: “A government with its snouts so firmly in the trough they are blinded by the filth in which they are mired”! Surely such bilious rhetoric is a more accurate description of Tory governments since the Thatcher era, or is it a premonition of Cameron’s Britain? It was Tory governments who undermined the standards of conduct in public life, personified greed and spawned a generation of self serving career politicians who are now all too familiar in every major political party. The very notion that the Tories could ever govern ‘in the interests of the people’, is totally ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as calling yourself Vulpus Rex and expecting to be taken seriously!

  94. Sister Mary Clarence 11 Apr 2009, 3:17pm

    Oh, please James so Labour have just followed the Tory lead on that. Well if that’s the case and all they can do is follow the Tory lead without the the confidence to carve out a new path, then I’d really question their ability to lead this country – well in fact that’s exacly what I am doing, questionnaing their ability to lead.

    The last conservative government got itself mired in sleaze because they couldn’t keep it in their trousers, this government will be remembered for its unashamed dishonesty. Scarely a day goes by without another robbing littel shit being uncovered.

    They have well and truly shot, killed, plucked and cooked the goose that laid the golden egg – unfortunately we’ve had to pay for the gun, the bullet, the oven and even the gas to enable them to do so.

    Vote Labour if you want to, its a free country – mercifully you’ll be in a small minority.

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