What a moron…distributing condoms “aggravates the problems”. Am I the only one who thinks that the reason this politician blames AIDS on overly promiscuous men is that he looks like he hasn’t had sex with anyone himself in 15 years? Why do people persist in trying to find a black and white answer (or scape goat),when the problem of AIDS is so multifaceted? Not enough enough funding, a Pope who blithely bans condoms, not enough birth control in developing countries, causing people to resort to unprotected anal sex, and on and on and on…a hundred years ago the same pious people who pride themselves on leading a morally superior life were saying the exact same thing about syphilis (the AIDS of it’s day) and those “moralists” like this one-dimensional politician accomplish nothing, expect to prove that history sadly does repeat itself…
For those of you who haven’t seen it, this appeared in the British
press today: “HEADLINE “Pope ‘distorting condom science” –One of the world’s most prestigious medical journals, the Lancet, has accused Pope Benedict XVI of distorting science in his remarks on condom use.
It said the Pope’s recent comments that condoms exacerbated the problem of HIV/Aids were wildly inaccurate and could have devastating consequences.
Correspondents say the attack from the Lancet was unprecedentedly virulent.
Speaking during his first visit to Africa, the Pope said HIV/Aids was “a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem”.
The Pope said “the traditional teaching of the Church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids”.
But the London-based Lancet said the Pope had “publicly distorted scientific evidence to promote Catholic doctrine on this issue”.
It said the male latex condom was the single most efficient way to reduce the sexual transmission of HIV/Aids.
“Whether the Pope’s error was due to ignorance or a deliberate attempt to manipulate science to support Catholic ideology is unclear,” said the journal.
“When any influential person, be it a religious or political figure, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record,” it said.
Pope distorting science? Isn’t that what Popes do? Why the surprise? The best response is to laugh at every piece of idiotic nonsense that comes out of the Vatican!
How many times have Tory M.P.s been caught with their pants down in the years I remember? Tories invented the word Promiscuity and thats a fact.
What a laugh! Zero tolerance to violence against women in Africa? Very few African countries can rule themselves without civil wars and massacres every other month and its the poor women who get raped and murdered. Africa is not Europe where women can fight for their rights; they have enough trouble fighting to stay alive! Its not helped by silly old twits telling them condoms don’t work and to obstain; if you are being raped how does that happen!
Oh-my-god! Did this stupid politician REALLY say that?! What an absolute idiot. Do these idiots not even bother to do their research on an issue, especially where there is plenty of scientific evidence they can easily access in almost any library. Their stupidity here goes beyond ignorance, its actively sticking their head in the ground with their fingers in their ears.
I agree that condom alone are not the solution. They are a great help of course, but other important factors are education, information, women status and promiscuity.
I think the pope was wrong to unilaterally condemn condoms, but it is true that monogamy is part of the solution and that in societies where indeed some men are much too promiscuous, the free distribution of condoms will not tell them to restrain.
The problem they need to tackle is rape & the ‘turn a blind eye’ attitude of the Police!! It’s no use saying to men ‘just use a johnny’ when you rape anyone, ok?!
Very few people take what the Pope says seriously, including the majority of Catholics.
What both Streeter and Lewis said is actually quite sensible, there is no point distributing condoms if those to whom you have given them cant be bothered to use them. Condom distribution has to go hand in hand with education. Unfortunately there is still a macho attitude out there that says: ‘real men don’t use condoms’.
Sign, the “new” Tory party is still full of homophobic fools.
To any gay person who votes Tory…. you’re idiots.
A Tory naver changes its colour. ‘Back to basics and Victorian value’s.’ Stupid fool.
Morgan: I’d rather be an idiot than a NuLab sheep.
Let’s get the facts right here: ALL men are promiscuous given the opportunity. That’s what we do. F–k things.
It so happens that heterosexual men don’t get so much chance because women are picky who they sleep with. (Well maybe not so much in recent years.) As for gay men, most will shag anything with a pulse, and many actively seek unsafe sex.
Before all you leftie Guardian-reader blow a fuse, pop on a Gaydar chat room, HIV+ is a good one to start, and then tell me I’m wrong.
I think Garry Streeter should have a word with his ex-Tory Leader ‘Bonking Major.’ Also Lord Parkinson who had a love-child with his Secretary. Boris Johnson, always getting caught with his pants down and many, many more!
What a F*****ing Twat! Why doesn’t he get his facts right first, there is more HIV in Africa amongst the hetro’s than homo’s.(is the gay population really so many that it is responsible for spreading HIV to ALL these people? I think not !It is a well known fact that the African male is brought up to believe that it is their ‘cultural right’ to allow him have sex with any woman he wants. It is also against their culture to wear a condom, hence why aid is rife throughout Africa. If you were to ask the majority of woman whom the father of her many children is, you’d find each one has a different father. I was born and brought up in Africa, lived there for 35 years so I know what I’m talking about !
“I’d rather be an idiot than a NuLab sheep”
Yeah, an idiot, as I said. You’re. An. Idiot. You right wing freak.
Can I suggest a few people actually read up on some of the studies that are being done on the spread of HIV in Africa (which is what this guy is referring to rather that us homosexxies).
Research is showing that sexual behaviour is an issue (which of course is were a few condoms might actually help if only as a stop gap until such time as people repent/ abstain/ follow the word of God or whatever.
Research is also showing that in areas on higher promiscuity there are wide variances in transmission rates and this seems to follow a pattern. Areas with higher incidences of circumcision and lower levels of ulcerative STDs (such as syphilis) show lower transmission rates against areas where circumcision is not the norm, or where rates of ulcerative STDs are higher.
While the comments may jar on the ‘I-don’t-care-if-they’ve-destroyed-the-economy-for-decades-to-come-Labour-good-Conservative-bad’ brigade, the LABOUR minister has actually agreed with him, and hopefully one or the other of them will start to do something about financing some educational programmes over there and maybe a few boat loads on condoms to boot.
The article makes no reference to gay men in the UK having it away with anything on two legs, so why are people going off on tangents suggesting that it does?
Morgan: Thanks for those supportive comments. Do you do cabaret?
Sister Mary Clarence: It’s about time organisations faced the rather unsavoury fact of why so many African heterosexuals have HIV/AIDS: It is standard practice that African men will only marry “virgins”, and also consider condoms to be “unmanly”. Therefore, they have anal sex with women, as this is not considered “losing their womanhood”. This consequently carries a considerably higher risk of viral transmission than vaginal sex, (hence why gay men are more likely to contract a virus then straight ones).
This obvious fact is omitted by almost every news media, publication or basic health education. Nobody wants to talk about “taking it up the arse”, particularly in a newspaper over breakfast, but if they can talk in common language in gay men’s health, they need to do likewise for African people, otherwise people will die. Sometimes one has to be direct, or the consequences are considerably worse.
As someone of African heritage I completely agree.
Education is the key to Africa’s survival, in the war against AIDS and on many other levels to. Unfortunately for us, corrupt governments rarely ever want a well educated population, so we are left to the mercy of snake oil salesmen like Bush and his abstinence programmes and the pope with his use a condom and burn in hell message.
A few simple facts about the dangers of HIV/AIDS taught from an early age and re-enforced throughout adolescence and adulthood would save millions of lives, particularly with the provision of condoms to enable Africans with a perfectly normal sexual appetite to enjoy a healthy sex life in the way that others on every continent do.
You cannot expect people in Africa to understand HIV and AIDS to the level we do if they are not provided with information in the way we have been. Provide that information and they stand a much better chance of survival. Uganda is an excellent example of this where condoms were provided in abundance and HIV infections rates we drastically reduced – condoms were then withdrawn and HIV rates went us.
What a stupid comment. Of course it can be – amongst other things -the result of promiscuity. You can’t get it from lavatory seats!
Robn, you are aware I hope that female to male transmission via vaginal sex also happens. AIDS statistics right now reflect a far higher percentage of heterosexuals contracting the virus per capita on a global scale than gay men. Heterosexual men are just as promiscuous as gay men, don’t ever think they’re not. Take a look at the number of unwed mothers around the world, its soaring in the U.S. where teen pregnancy is higher than in any other western nation. Adultery by straight men and women alike is at an all time high, yes…married people having extra-marital sex.
Burton, I think Gary Streeter forgets the Profumo affair back in the 60s, most of the politicians involved in that sex scandal were tories including Profumo himself.
Robert: I am well aware of the differences here. I have a number of comments on other posts, but to try and thread them together: ALL men are promiscuous, that is their nature. However, in heterosexual relationships, women act as the “control” and so men don’t get to poke everything they want. If women say no, then straight men by that very fact CANNOT be promiscuous. It is also the case that heterosexual women are becoming less selective. When that control is missing or reduced, they shag like rabbits. ie: gay men and “ladettes”
I am well aware that vaginal sex can allow the infecxtion of HIV/AIDS, but it is far less likely; most people are unaware that the vagina is a hostile environment for sperm, let alone HIV, and that also, the HIV virus, outside of it’s cellular protection is very vulnerable and fragile, and in most cases is destroyed before it can enter the body. I think it much more likely that women are accepting anal sex these days, where as at one time it was considered dirty and unacceptable.
As for politicians and sex scandals, there are many committed by all parties throughout the years. The simple fact is that rich, powerful men can’t keep their dicks in their pants; and they are too stupid to think that their shags won’t sell their story to the highest bidder. (That also goes for gay ones ie: Norman Scott)
RobN, I take your point but not all gay or bisexual men engage in anal sex, in fact some don’t allow it. You stated…”If women say no, then straight men by that very fact CANNOT be promiscuous.” Do you mean married men or single men involved with women who don’t stray or cheat on their partners? I’m not sure what you mean by that, but having said it, by the same token, if a male takes control and says no to his male partner, does that also imply that he CANNOT be promiscuous by that very fact? Actually, not all women take control in bed, its often the hetero male who usually initiates sexual activity. There are hundreds of thousands perhaps millions of hetero cohabiting or married couples engaging in anal sex around the globe. Its nothing new either.
The HIV virus as you are aware dies almost instantly if it is airborne.
Robert, ex-pat Brit:
I was trying to define the “regular” process of courtship / sexual hierarchy. Married or single is irrelevant. If you are single and they say “I’m washing my hair tonight” or married and “I have a headache”, either way, the man is screwed, (or rather, he isn’t).
That is the natural control over men to stop them running sexually amok. If they are single, they may continue to go “on the hunt” and if they are married, they will to a point, put up with it, under the proviso that it is better to have a wife that’s not very sexually active than going back to being single and risk not having any sex at all. There is always the factor that through neglect, or opportunity, a married man will still try elsewhere, hopefully assuming he won’t get caught…
The bottom line is, as I mentioned elsewhere, not to put to fine a point on it… “Men fuck things” That’s what we do. In the normal heterosexual state of play, women manage that drive. However, in gay terms, women are not part of the equation, and so men will do what nature intended, and spread their seed as far and wide as possible, often with little interest in relationships, which is why gay partnerships are generally very tenuous. If we were to view the other side of the coin; lesbians find it harder to find partners than men, and are less interested in sex as a recreational activity and more as an emotional outlet, and if they do happen to find the right partner, they often stay with them indefinitely.
I do appreciate these are generalisations, and there are always exceptions to the rule, but our behaviour was determined millions of years ago, and is not likely to change just because some politically-correct government directive deems it so.
People often hate to admit it, but the baseline is, we are still essentially animals. Intelligent, glossed-up and intellectual, but nonetheless we are still the naked ape.
I’m a bit disappointed with the reaction of many of the messages here. The people with the most vehement reactions don’t seem to have taken in the article at all.
For example, Erroll Clements said “What a F*****ing Twat! Why doesn’t he get his facts right first, there is more HIV in Africa amongst the hetro’s than homo’s.(is the gay population really so many that it is responsible for spreading HIV to ALL these people? I think not !”
The article doesn’t mention homo-anything.
RobN said “Let’s get the facts right here: ALL men are promiscuous given the opportunity. That’s what we do. F–k things.”
They are not, RobN. I am a virgin, and I somehow doubt I’m the only one.
But the point is, the MP is basically correct. There are clearly various ways of passing HIV, the three most common being unprotected sex with multiple partners, drug users sharing needles, donor blood contamination. In Africa, the most cursory research makes clear that in Africa, the first of these is the overwhelming cause of HIV spreading. To deny that is no less foolish and short-sighted than the pope condemning condom use.
I reiterate, and stand by what I said: ALL men are promiscuous.
The fact you are still a virgin does not nullify that statement.
I guess you have so far never encountered the opportunity.
Another publicity seeker – silly man
…this article doesn’t mention homosexuals at all? I hate to say it about a Tory, but what he is saying is true. When I saw the headline, of course I too immediately got my back up, but I think maybe some people need to re-read the article and what he ACTUALLY said before calling him a ‘f***ing twat’.
Oh! I love SEX do’nt you?