Here’s where to get the certificate:
It should be against the law to brain wash children into any religion.
John Hunt, what a waste of sixty quid. There is no revoking of Baptisum old son. Once you are Baptised into the Church of England, it’s like being born, you cannot become un-born and like the powers that be said, Baptisum becomes part of history which in turn cannot be changed just because you personally whish it. In a free country you can say I do not belive in God. Some Religions would put a ‘Fatwa’ on you!
Interesting. It occurs to me that if everyone who has left their church had gone through the process of being de-baptized, we would have a thriving new industry on our hands. I see it as a question of principle, and I understand why John Hunt wanted to go the whole 9 yards. Good for you, John.
Interesting. It occurs to me that if everyone who has left a church had also gone through the process of being de-baptized, we would would have seen the birth of an industry. Also, I understand John’s initiative as a question of principle and I can’t see how it harms anyone. Good for you, John.
he’s lucky he wasn’t jewish – THAT covenant is quite difficult and expensive, and, I imagine, painful to undo!
Actually, Brian Burton, you’re wrong. You can revoke a catholic baptism under Vatican II. Baptism is a document that registers you as an member of that region, and as such you are recorded as a member of that church even if you say you’re not… this adds weight to their numbers. You cannot remove the fact that it happened, but like all memberships, you can discontinue. The fact that it happened isn’t in dispute, its ending it that’s then important bit.
For Catholics, you are entitled to freedom of conscious, and void your baptism (and hence your membership of the church) by what they call “formal defection”. Every catholic is entitled to do so.
Fair play to him for actually putting his money where his mouth is… more of us should be doing the same, rather than simply being “lapsed”. And to be honest, after that tripe the catholic church regularly comes out with against gay people, why would you chose to be a “lapsed” member?
This is excellent – (I can’t see it being a waste of £60 at all – look at the huge amount of media coverage it has gained for that price, including the national TV news!)
It highlights the stupidity of baptism, the idea that pouring water over someone’s head gives you the chance of eternal life. The C of E uses baptism registers as, literally, head counts, to justify its influence. The real figures that matter are the 1 million or so church goers – a figure that is in freefall. But the vast majority of people were entered into this without their asking. John Hunt’s action is a reminder that the church’s position in society is vastly overinflated.
PS Had the opportunity to watch England v France match in O Neills in Muswell Hill, N London – a disused church superbly done out. Hopefully many more religious buildings will be put to good use like this in the future.
This man sounds like a feeble minded attention seeker to me. If he has got nothing better to do than worry about the implications of a complete non-event 56 years ago then he needs to get a proper hobby.
At least someone had the good sense to charge him £60 for this bit of time wasting mischief making.
If its such a non-even Vulpus, then why do you use such aggression against him? Its as important NOT to be in a religious organisation as it is to be IN one. Clearly you prefer the latter.
Aggression – I think not, gentle scorn perhaps, or roll-the-eyes at another attention seeking gesture from someone with nothing better to do.
I read an article yesterday about someone Welsh doing something horrible to someone else Welsh. I must say, that although I haven’t lived there for years now, I’m glad I didn’t feel the need to go out and undergo a ceremony of de-Welshness.
Vulpus, if you’re okay with remaining into the homophobic organisation that you were baptised into (if any) then that’s fine, but don’t belittle those who will stand up for who they are and remove themselves form these vile institutions. In face, the more that do so, the clearer the message is that blind superstitiousness and unfounded hate is not the way forward.
The correct analogy is incorrect, as you can technically renounce your nationality if your don’t lie it… some people did the very same during the war with their membership of the Nazi party (ironically not much difference between the rhetoric of the “christian” churches and the nazi party). Its about sending a message and standing up for ones personal beliefs. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing you should be proud of for demeaning the actions of those who do.
I hope John Hunt dos’nt now feel discriminated against by people who belive in God? I know atheists feel offended if Council Officials say ‘We’re all reading from the same hymn sheet’ An atheist did take Christians and Jews to Court once and his advocate put it to the presiding Judge that the atheist plaintif was discriminated against because Christians and Jews have their Religious festivals and atheists have nothing. The Judge immediatley told the Advocate ‘This case is dismised’ The Advocate protested saying: Your Honor, how can you dismiss the case when Christians have Christmas and Jews have Passover? The judge leaned forward in his chair and said: Ofcourse your client has his own special day. All fools day falls on April 1st. Psalm 14 verse 1 states:’The fool says in his heart, there is no God.’ Thus, it is the opinion of this Court, that if your client says there is no God, then he is a fool. Therefor, April 1st. is his day.
“The fool says in his heart, there is no God.”
What??? What a load of utter nonsense! When someone says there IS a god, the burden of proof is on them, simply because there is no evidence to the contrary!
And to belittle another because they think that only shows you to be the bigger fool…. be careful you don’t trip over any black cats on the way home.
What a silly little muppet you are Brian Burton.
Agreed Tony… I’m always fascinated that some people, like this twit, seem to think that NOT believing in a god is god-fearingly foolish. Nothing sadder than a gay man who loves to be told off by the church as a sinner. Problem with these people is a lack of education, and an inability for them to even fathom that there are other possibilities outside what small beliefs they have.
In short, stupid.
Agreed Tony… I’m always fascinated that some people, like this twit, seem to think that NOT believing in a god is foolish. “Oh, no, god is going to get me with a burning bush or something equally stupid because I read a science book instead of that ridiculous bible”. Please, spare me that childish stupidity, Brian.
Nothing sadder than a gay man who loves to be told off by the church as a sinner. Problem with these people is a lack of education, and an inability for them to even fathom that there are other possibilities outside what small beliefs they have.
Brian Burton – I judge foolishness on believing things which have no concrete evidence. Psalms 14:1 is the type of religious claptrap trotted out by dogmatic priests who are rightly concerned that their flock might be otherwise tempted to analyse the available empirical evidence. See also Hans Christian Anderson’s fable “The Emporor’s New Clothes”.
Faith and gullability are two sides of the same coin.
You’ll have to do better than that.
Pointless, self-serving jump onto the band-wagon.
I hope he enjoys his five minutes in the local rag – shame he couldn’t find something really important to grab a headline.
In his damnation of the church he despises so much I wonder if he forgot, or ever knew, that for something like 700 years in the UK the largest provider of free health-care, charity and education was the church ?
Let’s consider a modern example – the Jubilee debt campaign amongst others – massive support from the Anglican church for relief of third world debt – what a truly,truly evil organisation they must be!
Vulpus Rex, you’re an idiot to use that example. Did you know that 700 years ago they were burning innocent people for witchcraft? Talk about living in the past! Get with the times, you twat!
Maybe you should ask yourself what weakness is in your mental makeup that needs this homophobic organisation running your life (assuming you’re gay) and telling you you’re a sinner? Sounds like someone got a few blinkers for his birthday this year.
If he’s “pointless, self-serving jump onto the band-wagon”, then that makes you “pedantic, self-loathing stand in line with all the other blind religious fools”
This is a good move. Children are innocent and do not belong to any religion until they are old enough to choose for themselves. I think the time has come to sue people for circumsion too. Genetal mutilation of children is abhorent.
Vulpus_Rex, did you know that the Ku Klux Klan involved its members extensively in charity work? So, using your logic, we should embrace them as a loving organisation, and shun those who renounce their membership?
You’re an idiot.
Charlie by name and Charlie by nature it seems – lovely turn of phrase you have.
Walk into the significant majority of churches and you will find an area devoted to what is going on in that church – typically it will be news about community groups, fairly benign social activities, fund raising activities, news about past charitable activity and results from national initiatives such as charitable work in the third world.
What won’t be there are the minutes of the last meeting of the homophobia club and timetables for the buring of the local witches and heretics.
So why don’t you practice what you preach and try living in the 21st century, you, erm, twat.
Vulpus – Fisrtly, none of that has any bearing on whether the doctrine is actually true or not.
And whether or not it’s true, for every example of the acts of charity and goodwill from the church, there seems to be another example of blatant disregard for the welfare of others, whether it be equality for minority groups or abstinence only contraception in Africa. Yes there was religious backing for the abolition of slavery, but what gets glossed over is that the promotion of slavery also had heavyweight religious backing.
And let’s face it, the Anglican cummunity is currently slugging it out over whether gay people are eternally damned. Half their representatives think we should be. Unlike Groucho Marx, I wouldn’t join a club that wouldn’t have me as member.
John Hunt is well within his rights to de-baptise himself… in fact I’m tempted to join him, as whenever there’s a census those in charge just look at the baptism register and take the data about who’s religious and who isn’t from there. I don’t remember being given a choice.
He’s talking about “try living in the 21st century” and he’s using examples from 700 years ago?!?!?
We can read the newspapers. Christian churches on the whole are homophobic, that’s simply a fact, “king fox”. If a gay man wants to leave this oppressive institution, then he’s doing the right thing. You can keep your puritan nonsense to your self, we’re not all blind and as sanctimonious as your are.
I cannot defend the position of the church on homosexuality – it is based on a selective reading of the OT and a mis-tranlsation of one of the Letter’s of Paul.
It is wrong and will change in time just as the acceptance of women priests camse slowly.
I can, however, point out that by and large, churches are not full of frothing, swivel-eyed, gay hating lunatics, which is frankly how it is portrayed often in the comments on these pages.
The vast majority of Christians in the UK would be horrified by this description.
Vulpus – I grant you that not all members of the Anglican community are frothing gay hating lunatics, but there are a significant number, and the fact remains that they back up their bigotry with bible verses.
If you don’t fall into that category personally then that’s fine by me, but for those who no longer believe and have encountered such bigotry I see no reason to hang around. The recent change in attitude is too slow for my liking.
I was baptised before I was able to weigh up the evidence for and against, and for myself I don’t see why the Anglican community should be able to use me as a statistic to shore up their demographic on a pie chart.
“use me as a statistic to shore up their demographic on a pie chart”
And Flapjack sums the reasoning up perfectly in this line.
Flapjack – when you say that there are a significant number of gay-hating christians how do you know?
Press reports on people like those nutty Americans from Kansas perhaps, or the blatherings of the Pope (who I read today has the vast majority of the Vatican tearing their hair out with embarrasment)?
High profile in the media yes – representative of Christians I think not!
The vast majority of christians I meet have no particalar feelings on sexuality and see it as a private matter between you and your God.
I spend a lot of time in and around churches performing sacred music and just simply do not recognise this lazy
charicature of Christians as Homophobic from the people I meet – I play for a Gay symphony Orchestra regularly and where do we put on our concerts? In a Church.
“The vast majority of christians I meet have no particalar feelings on sexuality and see it as a private matter between you and your God.”
Really? Since when? I am sick to death of hearing about it from the churches. Are you reading the wrong newspapers? You clearly have a biased opinion of this, wouldn’t be the first time a person brainwashed by religion came in here and started spouting the “merits” of the church.
Still doesn’t detract from the church, as a whole entity, advocates a homophobic stance. And leaving the church is the best way to handle this until they decide to change. I for one don’t subscribe to the”wait and see” approach, or the even more ridiculous “change it from within” stupidity.
“The fool says in his heart, there is no God.” Indeed, and the wise man shouts it from the rooftops!
And another thing Brian Burton – please learn elementary spelling and punctuation before spouting off your tired, lame and fanciful defence of the indefensible.
There has never been and will never be any god. If you chose to delude yourself to the contrary and waste time occupying yourself following slavishly the rites and rituals of your “religion” that’s all well and good. Just don’t expect those of us with even a modicum of broader knowledge to give you the time of day or respect your flawed “belief” system.
Surely this is akin to getting a marriage annulled? No one denies that the event occurred, you are just having the legal position re-instated as though the event had not occurred. Seems fair enough, I might do it myself one day as I really do resent being joined to a club that I have no interest or belief in.
the gouvenment should ban all religious teachings to minors
as me too i need to debaptize .
why did they lie to my mother and said god existed .
i will take them to court and ask for damages too
And finally Brian Burton and other religionists – the Catholic Church has announced it will note a person’s resignation (de-baptism) in the margins of the baptismal certificate. The whole point of this de-baptism being publicised it to point up the fact that the Church of England, for example, gains access to the House Of Lords and therefore the ability to change laws in this country, by using baptism rates as a lever to those unacceptable privileges.
To quote The Times Religion Correspondent under the headline “Church Of England on brink of ‘losing’ 24 million members”
“Dr Hunt does not want the Church of England to enjoy special privileges based on 25 million members counted by baptisms carried out on babies when, judging by church attendance of 1.1 million, most of these grown-up babies no longer profess.”
“Really”: Yes, really for most christians it just isn’t the biggest talking point.
“Since When”: Since forever, believe it or not “Those pesky homosexuals” is not the only topic of conversation amongst religious people.
“I am sick to death of hearing about it from the churches”: yes because that is all they ever talk about and it dominates the ten o’clock news every day.
“Are you reading the wrong newspapers?” : That sounds rather sinister – is there only one source of valid information? Do tell me what are the only acceptable newspapers in Will-World.
“You clearly have a biased opinion of this”: As do you – to have an opinion per se is to show some sort of bias, what therefore is your actual point?
“wouldn’t be the first time a person brainwashed by religion”: Repeating my observations of the christians I have met and churches I have visited represents “Brainwashing”?
“came in here”: Oooh scary, someone with a different opinion daring to air it in “my” forum, can’t cope.
“and started spouting the “merits” of the church”: The church and religion have a good side – is it bad to occasionally point this out?
If by a “good side” you mean a hypnotic fascination with theatre and ritual, a penchant for spouting utter gibberish and being the basis for nearly all world conflict then yes, religion could be said to have a “good side”.
Sadly, your definition of good is not shared by those free thinking individuals that chose not to be enslaved my moronic dogma based on myth. And before you come back with the de riguer response, Hitler and Stalin were both christian, one protestant the latter catholic. Why, even the current head of the catholic church(and self appointed representative of god on Earth, no less) is a former member of Hitler Youth AND a went on to be a serving member of the Nazi armed forces. Such a nice man, with so many good sides, don’t you think?
Vulpus_rex, keep your hocus pocus religion and your delusions about an imaginary god, and I’ll stick to reality, cheers.
“If by a “good side” you mean a hypnotic fascination with theatre and ritual, a penchant for spouting utter gibberish and being the basis for nearly all world conflict then yes, religion could be said to have a “good side”.”
Hmm I was referring rather to the centuries old traditions of charity, good works, campaiging on behalf of third world poverty, intervention in unjust legislation, provision of health care etc. All good in my opinion, but perhaps you consider them evidence of evil, who konws, there are some strange people around.
If by “moronic dogma” – you are referring to concepts of love thy neighbour, not killing, not stealing etc. I would be thrilled to hear what those oh-so-enlightened “Free thinking” people have replaced them with?
True you can have these concepts outside of a religion, but embracing them as part of a religion hardly makes them “Moronic Dogma”
Oh and Hitler and Stalin were both also socialists, so should we ban socialism? Hitler also a vegetarian – does that therefore discredit the whole concept of vegetarianism?
No I thought not. Such cheap, facile logic does your point no favours.
Oh! Thank you Me Hearties, I’ve so enjoyed the can of worms I deliberatley placed under your snouts and boy did you rummage in the trough. GREAT STUFF, Tatty By!
Cheers to you as well Will, though contrived boredom is generally the last resort of someone who has run out of ideas.
Enjoy your weekend!
Great stuff, you guys. Here in Canada a news item about John Hunt’s de-baptism certificate would hardly get a «oh-hum» from most people (Christians) I know. We are so-o-o apathetic here, a bunch of lame-brain sheep who fork over money to the church week after week. So boring. You guys are titillating in the best possible sense, and I love to see how you are so up-front with one another while remaining friends. I am impressed.
You seem to think religion is the source of “loving thy neighbour”, you couldn’t be more wrong. You attribute to a narrow minded vision of the world traits that are borrowed, not created, by that organisation.
And my boredom? No, its actually the realisation that people like you are slaves to dogma, and reason is wasted on you. Enjoy your weekend on your knees begging a non existent god for “forgiveness”… ha! The very notion is demeaning!
I shall be skiing not praying (not sure where in this thread I ever said I was a christian, but if it suits you to believe that anyone who can see a positive side to religion has to be then let’s hope they find a cure for tunnel vision) but thanks for your thoughts, and hope your boredom passes soon!
Oh, it has, it has… It amuses me to be called “tunnel visioned” by someone with such a love of dogma as you. Quite amusing. I see no positive side to religion, it has set mankind back centuries, but you believe what you want, I couldn’t really care that much to be honest.
OH! Lighten up Will for GAWDS SAKE!
Ah, the delightful Brian Burton with his insightful comments and dull bible quotes… run along, your god demands you chant at him.
Brian, you’re quite the little retard, aren’t you?
Ouch, this is all very painful. Weren’t we all supposed to be on the same side? At least as far as the right to be openly gay is concerned? Surely, the gay community is large enough to accommodate a variety of opinions. In my local gay and lesbian shop there is a noticeboard with listings for the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association, Queer Pagans, Lesbian Feminists, Gay Conservatives, Gay Communists, Queer Vegans, Gay Anti-Capitalist Activists, Gay Business Association. I would suggest in fact that one of the things that is strong about the gay community is that it is strong enough to accommodate a wide variety of views – in fact, I recall reading on one of the bonkers US anti-gay sites a complaint one of the things homophobes cannot stand about us is that we are indeed everywhere – we are atheists, Christians, trade unionists, businesspeople, fans of Madonna, fans of Judas Priest, readers, writers, scene queens, Star Trekkers, quiet opera buffs.
John Hunt is a member of OutRage! and I salute him for his work with that influential and groundbreaking group. Vulpus-Rex is a member of a positively out gay choir working within the churchgoing community and I am equally delighted. It all breaks down anti-gay prejudice as far as I am concerned. We may disagree, but I would urge saving our real anger for the people who are anti-gay. We have enough nastiness to face as a community.
Fans of Madonna? I say, steady on!
Ian Laughin, you are a splendid fellow. The rest can try Vimax pills if they are dreaming of a Bigger Penus!–and Good-by!
Hi there Jean-Paul. You certainly have had an earfull from our fantabuloso, oricles of wisdom and truth indeed and for your edification in the Colonies all my friends send you Love and Best Wishes. They are: Vulpus Rex (not Edipus Rex) Ivan, Andrew Q. Flapjack, Mihangel, Will, (The dear Boy) Adrian T. Tony Lambert,
Charley O. J Hunter, The lovley Andy & Steave, Mandy and Mogan (What a Butch name) A tiny teardrop has appeared my eye after imparting this epistle to you, so fare well Jean-Paul and good cruising.
Hello Brian. Thanks for the reassurance. For a moment there I thought I had beamed into a scene from ClockWork Orange. Have no fear, this old boy has been around and I know a bunch of witty, clever fellows when I read them. I thought Mihangel’s comment was hilarious, while the rest of you would fit right into The Meaning of Life, Part 1, my most favorite movie of all time, except for Snow White, Peter Pan and My Favorite Launderette. It has been a treat tuning into PinkNews, and I too am prone to crying when signing off. Pass me a Kleenex, I’m ready for my close-up. Warm regards from Eastern Canada on this first day of Spring.
It’s not Clockwork Orang, with Jean Paul, Burton, and Vulpus the idiot, its more like a the Muppet Show… what a shower of retards. Jean Paul, the only Kleenex you need is to wipe the best part of you off your fathers legs. Back to f*cking a moose for you.
Jean-Paul, you are a Prince among Men (Mogan do’se not warrent a mention!)
I’ve already told the girl next door (Slack Alice) about you and she in turn told our local Postman (Pop-It-In-Pete) Dear Slack works in the local Jam Factory-Bless Her. Now, Jean-Paul, I want to tell you a little adventure I had with a Cananian Boy from New Brunswick. From what you said in your posting about (This old Boy has been around etcetera) I reconed you know the 1960s. I was in The U.K.Army then and managed to take a Holiday in Malta. I was alone untill I ran into Canadian Bob in a bar frequented by Big Butch Marines. I sat next to Bob on the Barstools and we introduced each other, being overheard by the Big Butch Homies in uniform. Bob and I wore outrageous coloured shirts.Well it was’nt long before the Marines were commenting on that couple of Queers seated at the Bar. Bob and I left and went swanning around Valetta untill we found a Bar full of ordinary Sailors. We danced the dance of love with those gorgeous, young sailors to Juke Box music and we loved every minute of it. I always wanted to join the Navy but only got as far as a Play called: ‘Peep Through The Porthole Percy.’ Ah! Jean-Paul, the days of wine and roses indeed are over alas. But what sweet memories. I’ve lived with the same Guy for 39 years now and have been extreamly happy. It includes Civil Partnership Cerimony three years ago. Cherrio my friend and God Bless You.
Are people in here on drugs? What the f*ck was that load of dribble about, Brian? Seriously. It was a mindless stream of really boring consciousness. Dementia medication not working or something?
Brian, you’re as much a bitch as you are a twat, we’re all very proud of you being “so” gay and yet a religions fool. You’re partner much have all the sensory ability of Helen Keller just to avoid topping himself after 39 years of listening you a prattling moron like yourself.
Keep your god, you’ll need a religion to fall back on when you figure out the earth isn’t flat, and the reality that no one is remotely interested in the dull stories of a ageing old bitch.
So, tally ho, or what every you old army fools like to say…
Why do we have to endue the same obsequious religious nonsense from these people on this site? The comments are invariably puerile and petty, and show little awareness or understanding of the reality of organised religion. If this is the result of years of programming and blind obedience to dogmatic rules, then they are welcomes to their mumbo jumbo. It seems to me that its more likely they need people to validate their faith choices to add credence to them…. religious people are invariably weak people, despite their protestations to the contrary.
Oh, and a big congratulations to John Hunt for him showing a lot of people what needs to be done to end the legacy baptism into these organisations who spend an inordinate amount of time focusing on gay/straight sex and all things “dirty” in their small minds…. Vulpus is little more than a charlatan to try to convince us of what we all know to be a lie.
Well done Mr. Hunt, may more follow your footsetps!
Thank you Mighty-Mouth Morgan. May you have many sons and may your camels have many Humps.
Please Brian, its better to be though a fool than to open your mouth and remove all shadow of doubt. Lets keep the silliness to yourself, shall we? There’s a good chap.
Oh, no, Brian tried to insult me! Oh, boo frickin hoo. Delightfully pathetic and somewhat predicable of you, Brian… but its what one would expect from an army person… those who fight do so because they can’t think. Well done.
Oh dear George Underwood dear, you sound as though you swallowed a dictionary. Aint you heard that Religions’been around longer than you and It will be here long, long after you’ve gone. Praise The Lord and pass the amunition.
Brian, I was born in ’45 between the two atom bombs… that means in early June.. lucky you, I’m a Gemini with 16 distinct personalities and plans to give birth any time now. Speaking of mindless dribble, I entered a Trappist Monastery in the late sixties just as a MAN was setting foot on the moon and my father, kleenex and all, was telling me not to be a fool and believe all that crap because the moon landing was filmed in Hollywood. Getting back to the monastery, you really don’t want to know the nitty-gritties but I most likely would never have entered if it hadn’t been for that out-of-sight joint of Jamaican Blue I smoked while standing in a puddle of rainwater in downtown Montreal while my Barbadian boyfriend (h-m-m-m) was busy singing in the Salvation Army MEN’s choir. I was young, stoned, and I thought I saw God swimming in an endless luminous river somewhere over the rainbow in a parallel univers, and I have always loved jumping in. Things would have turned out differently I suppose if I hadn’t bumped into a fully armed Canadian soldier posted at the corner by the Seville Theatre where I was going to see Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Picture Show. He frightened me; I had never seen such a big loaded weapon, you see, and there was a continuous disturbing blurp on CBC-FM Radio about the FLQ kidnapping a British diplomat and wanting to separate from the rest of the country. Confused, I forgot all about Tim Curry. The rest of the story is between me and my psychiatrist, and my divine partner of 20 years made me promise time and time again to behave on the Internet so I guess that means the moo-moo-moose-cow is out of milk… for now. Howevah, about this de-baptisum business (remember that?), having sex can’t be only for reproductive purposes otherwise people would stop having IT after they’ve had enough babies, right? And Gawd knows how much the world need more babies, right. And we know how happy we can be, right…just ask Walt Whitman or that Carpenter fella with all dem socialist notions. So, have you heard how the Pope’s in hot water about excommunicatin’ the family of an 11-year-old rape victim aborted of her twin foetuses in South America? Of course you have, because you’re you, that’s why. This stream-of-consciousness routine can be fun, eh? Group hug and no groping above the belt, youse guys. By the way I now own the DVD and I watch the Rocky Horror Picture Show religiously every hallowe’en night, but I don’t smoke or drink anymore, so it just ain’t the same, it’s just downhome healthy. Ain’t life grande.
George asked “Why do we have to endure the same obsequious religious nonsense from these people on this site?”
Let me just repeat the introduction to thomas paine’s age of reason, which cannot be repeated enough: “You will do me the justice to remember, that I have always strenuously supported the Right of every Man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it. The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is Reason. I have never used any other, and I trust I never shall.”
ON the matter of Psalms 14:1 – I would argue, these words have more than a grain of truth to them, and are especially relevant to people in places where Sharia law is enforced. Under the threat of the Inquisition, you would indeed be a fool to say there was no god (In Galileo’s time, you’d be a fool to even suggest our tiny, insignificant pale blue dot was anything less than the centre of the Universe). Of course, we cannot know whether those verses were written by a fool in the first place. But, since the author(S) of the Psalms would have regarded the wheelbarrow as cutting edge technology, it isn’t necessary for a society that has sent probes to Neptune, split the atom and deciphered the genome to take their word for it. ;-)
Cor Blimey! You’ve all swallowed a Dictionary.
No, Brian. We’re just educated, alien as that concept might be to a man that thinks the killing of other people is a valid career move.
Jean-Paul, after all that I think I prefer MAD MAX.
My friend, I have never smoked a joint or taken anything stronger than asprin. I drink one glass of red wine every day on medical advice (good for the old ticker they say) I have just been cleared of cancer after eighteen months of treatment (and total misery) I am Ok now. My wonderful Partner nursed me through out, it is Love that sees a couple through great adversity every time.
I am white, when I was yonger, Black Guys were tops with me. This is why I can never understand racial discrimination. I have never hated anyone in my life. I even love Morgan-Bless Him. I always look for the good in People rather than the bad. You are a good man Jean-Paul though you would like folk to belive otherwise I suspect. What you have to remember Jean-paul and hold on to is: As
good as you are and as bad as I am. I’m as good as you are, as bad as I am. See-Ya.
Morgan Dear, let me set you streight about Military Service in my day; Well, in my day we were ‘Called Up’ for National Service. One had no option but to comply with the call up, the alternative being 12 months in Wormwood Scrubs for refusing. I was not allowed weapons, I was non-combatned being a trained Medic. I was in Field Ambulance and was to pick up the wounded and treat on the spot. Not very nice Shoving a man’s intestines back in after he had been gut shot. I only did this in training, luckerly there was no wars on at the time. If I had chosen Prison, I would probably have bumped into Lord Montague, Michael Pitt-Rivers and Peter Wildblood inside or on their way out. A travesty of Justice being Jailed for Homosexuality. Still, they helped blaze the trail which led to the repeal of this terrible law.
Brian: I was just kidding about the 16 personalities. Nobody has 16 personalities! And the 60′s were crazy times. Here we spoke of Love & Peace, but images of Viet Nam filled our newspapers and T.V. screens. Like so many others, I had a rough time in the 60′s, but I did survive and organized religion had a lot to do with that. There are many, many good and decent people in the pews. My gripe is not with the laity, but with the hierarchy and everyone knows our religious leaders have selective memories and and so very often turn a deaf ear to anything which will not advance their own agenda. That is not about to change. As for you, I believe you should ignore any reproaches made about the armed forces. Where would we be without the British Armed Forces??? How can you ever doubt that the years you have given in the defense of democracy deserve anything else but the utmost respect and gratitude?
Jean-Paul, thank you for your re-assurance, I said you were a good Guy. My priority now is not my past but the future. I live in a two bedroomed Bungalow with my life partner. We sing in the Church Chior and we used to sing ‘American Barbershop’ but quit when that hobby became too damned expencive. By the way, Canadian
Bob who I met in Malta ended up living with gay, professional Musicians living in a very large basment flat in Bayswater London.
That was in the middle 1960s, goodness knows what happened to him.
He hated New Brunswick, I hope the 1980s Aids epademic did’nt get him. So Long my Friend for now.
Jean-Paul, In 1950 Robbie Ross’s Ashes was interred in Osca Wilde’s Tomb by Admirers.