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Utah battle for gay rights turns ugly with homophobic ad campaign

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  1. “They [children] must be protected until they are 18, from the act of masturbation and therefore cannot be allowed to be exposed to homosexual unions.”

    Huh? WTF does mastibation have to do with it?

    I know I haven’t finished my morning coffee yet and I’m not sure that with even a bucket full of coffee that statement would make any more sense. Where do these people get these ideas from?!? Do they have no concept of how utterly rediculous their statements are?

  2. IVAN GUMILEV 17 Feb 2009, 8:03pm

    Leilah, they got their ideas from Bible.

  3. Göran Koch-Swahne 18 Feb 2009, 6:42am

    O, no they don’t!

    There is nothing in the Bible about masturbation. The story of Onan (Genesis 38:9) is about something else entirely, nanmely The Spilling of Semen, a Gnosticist brain child. The reading of malakoì in 1 Cor 6:9 as referring to masturbation (a reading still current in Constantinoples but abandoned by Rome after 1966) was 10th century Academic (Neo Platonist, Gnosticist).

    Not in the Bible.

  4. “In 2004 the state constitution was altered after a state ballot was approved that defines marriage as between a man and a woman.”
    As opposed to between a man and about 20 women which seemed to be a generally accepted Mormon definition not so long ago.
    These people have some nerve telling us that gay unions are not a suitable environment to raise kids in.

  5. Simon Murphy 18 Feb 2009, 9:34am

    This is a Mormon state remember. That is one of the most ridiculous, moronic stupid, backwards cults on earth. It was founded by an illiterate peasant Joseph Smith in the mid 19th century to allow himself to have multiple wives. Strict mor(m)ons are practically certifiable for believing the hateful nonsense spewing out of that cult.

  6. Pardon me. Liberal left-wing gay Mormon here.

    This kind of speech is shocking even for Utah. See, for all the bigotry and prejudice you can expect among the majority in Utah, you can also at least expect unfailing pretentious politeness from a niceness-obsessed culture, even when the words being spoken are negative. No, this seems very much uncharacteristic of even the Utah Mormon establishment. If this is a local Utah-based Mormon-oriented organization, it is one of the most radical-sounding I’ve ever heard of, and it’s even making the establishment rather uncomfortable.

    Comment #3: I don’t know a single person with more than one spouse. Banned a century and a half ago. The people who still do that are the kinds who ban TV and newspapers in their homes. The radicals. Even far more radical than the Utah conservatives, which are themselves rather radical.

    Comment #4: Words like that are not helpful, especially for life-long liberal Mormons like me who have never believed in all that anti-gay crap. I think for myself. I study for myself. I don’t always agree with general authorities and hold them to be human beings as fallible as anyone else. It also sounds like you didn’t even read the article. This is a rare circumstance where even the conservative anti-gay Mormon political establishment is troubled by the extremeness of this advertisement, because they recognize that it makes their side look bad. Granted, their side should look bad for what they keep trying to do, but when even they are so deeply troubled by such a virulently anti-gay ad, then you know it’s really that bad.

    There is a thriving gay Mormon counterculture. It tends to be constantly at odds with the orthodox elite, but we’re fighting for all our gay rights (including the right to marry) as much as anyone else, and we won’t give up until our dignity is recognized and respected, however long it takes.

  7. Simon Murphy 18 Feb 2009, 11:23am

    Comment #5 – I am sure there exists a liberal Mormon counter culture. It’s just that no-one seems to have heard of it. Where was it when the Utah Mormons were fighting gay marriage in California.

    And of course I stand by my comments that Mor(m)onism is a stupid backward cult founded by a semi-literate peasant as that is indisputably true.

  8. Mormons are a fine group to talk about marriage
    It’s like when the Catholics comment on gay parents. Makes me laugh when they are lead by Nazis pedophiles

  9. Har Davids 18 Feb 2009, 1:55pm

    “Exposing children to this environment of homosexual unions would deprive them of their necessary defences”. I know some loving gay couples whose relatives, conservatives in many ways, don’t mind it at all to send their kids over to them. So far, all of them are still straight.

  10. I live in Utah and I am very connected with news and information. Very few people in Utah saw these advertisements. While Utah is a “traditional marriage” state, it would not agree with the approach in the ads.

  11. I think the main issue here is a legal one, the religious ceremony commmonly refered to as “marriage”, no matter what form it takes, and no matter who the participants are, is not regognised in law. The only thing that matters is the Civil Contract. That means so far as the Constitution of the United States of America goes, everyone has a constitutional right to believe anything they want to. However, once the churches adopt a position and begin to lobby on matters secular, which the denial of civil rights to gay people absolutely is, under the Constition they forfit the protection of religious freedom and are a political party which comes under a different set of laws. So the churches have to say goodbye to the exemptions they formerly enjoyed from paying tax etc.

    An unavoidable fact is that religionists can bustle in politics as much as they like as individuals or even groups of individuals but the moment they do so under the banner of a collective as a church that’s the moment of truth for them. The right to believe what you like is enshrined, the right to be what you are is also enshrined and like all rights subject to the protection of the law. It is not constitutional to have your rights protected while removing the self same rights from others you don’t happen to like because they do things differently from religious rules set down. It really is that simple.

    I have always found the people I have met who self identify as followers of the Church of Latter Day Saints to be unfailingly polite and reasonable. Their church was founded out of the most terrible persecution upon the originators of the belief system and the first follower of it. They might consider that their own founders would not approve of what the congregations of the Church the founded are are attempting to do which is to persecute others for being different from them, and to deprive them of the very right they have guaranteed to them under the laws.

  12. Simon Murphy 18 Feb 2009, 4:50pm

    Tom H – in commment number 9 you say ‘ While Utah is a “traditional marriage” state, it would not agree with the approach in the ads.’

    That may be true but the true vile nature of Mor(m)onism was exposed by the fundraising and campaigning done by the Mor(m)on church to overturn gay marriage in California. The Mor(m)on church may be more mainstream than these adverts but that makes it far moew dangerous as it gives the church a sheen of respectability it absolutely does not deserve.

    Does the Mor(m)on cult still engage in the involuntary baptism of dead non-mor(m)ons does anyone know?

  13. Terry Floyd Johnson 18 Feb 2009, 5:57pm

    It seems the Mormans have forgotten their own repression; now they want to be repressors themselves.

    Your truth is going to be face to face with you; and how you show your true worth, says what is going to be your future.

    This is simply hate mongering; these mormans need to read the constitution, and eat their own hate filled words.

  14. Simon Murphy, your language is quite broad and inflammatory even for someone as supportive of criticism as I am. It is one thing to offer deep extension criticisms and expressions of disapproval. But the repeated “Mor(m)on cult” comments makes you sound more like Fred Phelps than like any kind of impassioned gay man arguing for a just cause. In fact, it actually makes you sound less credible than the outrageous ad this article reported about to begin with. High-level categories of human beings are innumerably diverse within, and when you indiscriminately slam every one of them with repeated derogatory language, what credibility you might have had is increasingly forfeit in civilized discourse. It may be in an argument seeking for most of the same things, but your methods of communicating the issue may end up only counting against and hindering the cause of the rights, respect and dignity of LGBT people by alienating erstwhile natural allies because of their spiritual affiliations. It is not constructive, and it is not helpful. If you want to be helpful, encourage reform of the category’s culture rather than complete cultural nihilism against the whole of that category. That nihilism is the same kind of venom that opponents use against LGBT people. The kind of venom that LGBT people are rightly fed up with.

  15. Simon Murphy 19 Feb 2009, 10:20am

    Dermot – Mor(m)onism IS a cult. Do some reading on its origins. When it comes to organised religion then polite discourse is unnecessary. The facist Mor(m)on cult in Utah raised a LOT of money and campaigned strongly to remove certain legal rights for gay people. Anyone who pledges allegiance to that vicious sect is pledging allegiance to hatred and intolerance. I have not heard a single Mor(m)on condeming the hateful cult for its facist behaviour on the gay marriage subject. Mor(m)onism is vile. There’s no need to be polite about it.

  16. Simon Murphy 19 Feb 2009, 10:26am

    Does anyone know if the Mor(m)on cult still persist with the practice of ‘baptising’ dead non-Mor(m)ons in mass ceremonies.

    And why was it only in the 1970’s that black people were allowed in the cult? Could it be because Joseph Smith (the founder) was an ardent supporter of slavery and racism do you think?

  17. Has anyone actually read the Book of Mormon? It’s like Tolkien on speed (but not as good as the Master of Fantasy) I have read some pretty strange reasons for founding religions but this one is quite defiantly away with the Fairies (not the Hobbits or the Elves) And rather than Gandalf you have JC himself cast in the role of Superhero beating off the orcs (sorry, there aren’t really any orcs ;but there should be), destruction of great lost cities and civilisations; terrific fantasy stuff but hardly the foundation for a great religion! More like a game of D&D!

  18. There is the nub of it really as Mike puts it so very well. The Constitution gives the right to believe anything you like, no matter how at odds with reason it might be. It can be as delusional as they like. I hold the opinion that all religions are delusional. The Mormon Church is bigoted, and it has a history of racisim. I agree it is probably a cult, and it is certainly no friend to the Gay Civil Rights Movement. I don’t want to abuse any individual, or wish to see others abuse them for their religious beliefs, but I do agree that I do want them prevented from abusing me out of acting on them. I would like the believers in the Mormon Church to accept that as they have rights under the Constitution, so do we and they should respect that, and our differences.

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