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Gay humanists back Dutch MP’s right to criticise Islam

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  1. Simon Murphy 12 Feb 2009, 3:16pm

    Email Jacqui Smith and ask her why Jamaican singers who advocate the murder of gay men are allowed to perform in Britain while a stupid, uneducated politician (with BAD hair) but who does not advocate violence is banned.

  2. As the Isle of Man is getting some coverage regarding bigotry and outrage, when someone mentioned the murderous regime in Iran and how it has a faith based propensity for killing innocent people who are gay on the Gay Forums, the site was repeatedly hacked by Muslims who were offended at those comments. Some Muslims just cannot accept that it is the right of anyone to have an opinion about their religion that is different from their own. Some go further than not wanting any divergence they will go to any length to silence that. How in a free democracy can that be considered right?

    Some things really do need to be pointed out for what they are and Islam is what it is, and cannot be truthfully said to be well intentioned towards Gay people. Pretending otherwise is simply childish and insulting to all gay people. It is not Islamophobia to examine that faith its beliefs and scriptures to establish what it is it actually stands for. Nor is it Islamophobia to reasonably criticise the excesses of those who self proclaim to be its followers.

  3. Simon Murphy 12 Feb 2009, 3:30pm

    Islam is a stupid cult. It is no worse in principle to the christian or jewish or hindu or sikh cults but its members do seem to hate democracy amd love violence more than most headcults.

  4. Yes, i totally agree with PTTs / Peter tatchells comment, as well as the ones above.

    Wilders criticised a BOOK and incited hatred of nobody. Seems the governemtn has caved in to fanatics at the earliest possible opportunity. A black day for freedom of speech.

  5. I wish I could ignore people who believe in invisible (and generally malignant) spirits which control everything but they make it impossible in practice. Any ideas anyone? Just by the by, I have really been enjoying radio and tv programmes about Charles Darwin, whose bicentenary this year is. That guy was a HERO.

  6. Peter Tatchell and Gay Humanists yet again demonstrate their own crass hypocrisy. None of the verbal diarrhoea that spills forth from these small-minded self-appointed hypocrites – nor the unthinking drones who obediently fall into line with whatever irrelevant dinosaurs, like Peter Tatchell, say – ever surprises me these days.

    This sort of racist filth can utter their hatred from their own country, they don’t need to come here to do it, so good riddance and well done to the government for drawing a line in the sand.

    Some Muslims hate gays – is that any reason to allow a fascist to come here and preach hatred against all Muslims?

    If he was coming here to preach hatred against all gays, these same hyocrites would be the first to demand his immediate deportation.

  7. Freedom of expression must be defended, even if it offends some muslims.

  8. Har Davids 12 Feb 2009, 8:12pm

    So far, Geert Wilders has been speaking out against Islam, and everybody will agree that that religion’s PR is terrible right now. Geert criticises Islam, just as he should be criticising Judaism and Christianity, all peas from the same sandy pod, with a crazy, blood-thirsty god. I’m no fan of his, but there’s a bit of truth in what he says, he just shouldn’t paint every Muslim with the same brush.

    Us Europeans are just lucky with the Renaissance and Enlightenment.

  9. @Rory

    Islam is not a race. It is an ideology. Critisism of it is therefore not, in itself, racism. It is important to understand this.

    As for Peter Tatchell, he is certainly not irrelevant to the many opressed and frightened individuals from all over the world who he works tirelessly to help at a personal level.

    And, unless I’m missing something, there is no hypocrisy in demanding a level playing field.

  10. We knight Salmon Rushdie, but deport Geert Wilders.
    We allow “musicians” to perform homophobic music, but we forbid a man to show a film showing pictures of fundamentalists’ crimes.
    We allow The Daily Mail and The Sun to print homophobic propaganda 7 days a week and distribute it across the whole country, yet we forbid one man to show one film.
    To those who may say we’re hypocritical, maybe you should consider this.
    I think the difference is that we havent been rioted as frequently and violently as the fundamentalists. You so much as draw a picture of Mohammed and the death threats just flow in. Great. If the goverment is running scared of these guys, it doesnt fill me with confidence :S

  11. Rory, whatever it is you are taking you might consider changing the dose. Some Muslims hate gays, would you like to quantify “some”? Muslims are not a race they come from all kinds of countries and races, black, white, yellow, and variations of that too. Mr Wilders is a politician not a preacher. Yes we do speak out against people who preach hate against us, the point is that the British Government usually ignores our protestations and invites them in to preach, sing and generally make as much money as they can out of hating us. However just let someone anyone say anything about how “some” Muslims behave towards other who don’t happen to believe in their religion and see what happens to them.

  12. Ive seen the film, it makes no stand on gay rights, so why does a gay humanist group feel the need to stick up for him?

    The Qu’ran has many different translations, and in some countries extra little bits of information are added in..the point im making is, this man cherry picked bits from the more extremist prints and manipulated them into a hatebreeding film, not even on the same high standard of propaganda as say… Michael Moore. Now I wont say that Islam is not hateful towards gays, but at the end of the day if youre gonna go on record and support some silly little ignorant right wing fool, at least postion yourself in a less ignorant position. What that man is doing is no better than homophobia, theres over a billion Muslims, the man is saying that they all want to invade and take over the western world.

    His ideas kinda remind me of the Phelps family who insist us “faggots” are trying to ruin and overrun the world too..

  13. Nobody said it had to stick up for gay rights, that’s not the point here is it? The point is he has the right to speak out. You say he cherry picked some of us might like to see it for ourselves and make up our own minds. You say he has distorted the message of Islam, once again some of us might like to make up our own minds about that too. You say we support some silly little right wing fool, he may be all of those but we actually support his freedom of speech, he also has a right to be right wing, silly, little and a fool if he wants. You say what he is doing is no better than homophobia I disagree he is not advocating the murder of innocent homosexual people or the murder of innocent Muslims either to the best of my understanding, unlike some do every day of the week in Mosques. You say that Islam is not hateful towards Gays and that there is a billion Muslims that’s a lot of potential hate isn’t it? You say his ideas remind you of the Phelps family, I don’t remember this Dutch politician standing on the streets of Holland shouting for the deaths of Muslims but I do seem to remember seeing quite a bit from Muslims demanding the world convert or die over the past years. I have never yet seen any group of gays express the idea that world domination was part of the “agenda”. Even the hateful Phelps has a right to free speech protected by the Constitution. Free Speech is not to be confused with inviting or demanding death for anyone who happens to have a different opinion or a differently expressed sexuality.

  14. Joe Johnston 13 Feb 2009, 7:11am

    What is it about Islam that it cannot cope with anyone anywhere who disagrees with its message. If Allah is the all-powerful true God (whatever that means) how come he(she?) doesn’t deal with those who offend him or her directly instead of having his or her battles fought by a vicious, violent and evil body of followers. We’re constantly told that the message of Islam is a message of peace and reconciliation – it is nothing of the kind. Embedded in this most pernicious of religions is the explicit aim of conversion, by force (the sword is the expression used in the ‘holy book’) of the whole world. No other religion specifically enjoins its adherents to forcibly convert anyone – certainly not by violence. Yet someone who says these things is excluded from a Britain which finds it ‘impossible’ to remove the thousands of Muslim extremists preaching violence and hate on the streets and in the Mosques of Britain’s towns and cities every day. Funny how the concept of human rights can be selective.

  15. Simon Murphy 13 Feb 2009, 10:31am

    Islam like christianity like judaism is based on a work of fiction written thousands of years ago to offer life meaning to a bunch of desert living illiterate peasants in a time before science or physics or understanding of nature. Someone’s religion is an entirely voluntary thing. It is not innate like race, age, sex, sexual orientation; mental or physical ability. It is simply a set of beliefs. Therefore it is absolutely acceptable to ask these religions to explain their bigotry without fear of violent reprisal. Religions refeuse to do that as they are at heart anti-democratic; anti-freedom of speech and motivated by hatred of all that oppose them. The British government by banning Wilders (who unlike some of the more rabid muslims does not preach violence) is appeasing extremist muslims who are in principle against democracy. That is both scary and sinister.

    I don’t like Wilders but compared to islam I think he is a beacon of tolerance and understanding.

  16. @ Ivan

    Open your eyes. I never said Islam was a race. I said Geert Wilders is a racist – which he is – so if you are going to argue against me, then kindly have the decency to argue on the basis of what I have said.

    As for your preposterous claim that Peter Tatchell works tirelessly at anything other than his own self-interest …. LOL!!

    @ Johnny same goes for you buffoon. Learn to read why don’t you? On second thoughts, don’t .. you might be able to read the bigoted verbal diarrhoea you are posting in your drugged haze.

  17. Gene Touchet 13 Feb 2009, 2:50pm

    Three days of suicide bombers killing Islamic pilgrims have not managed to provoke Moslems into protesting against using Islam to justify murder. Who will speak for the dead if not someone outside the religion?

  18. Gene Touchet 13 Feb 2009, 2:53pm

    Dozens of Muslim pilgrims killed by suicide bombers in the last three days. No widely reported outrage from Islamic theocrats or theologians. Who will speak for the dead if not someone outside the religion?

  19. Simon Murphy 13 Feb 2009, 4:18pm

    Rory – please give some examples of racist statements made by Geert Wilders.

    He hates the muslim cult. So do I because it is an evil, divisive, murderous sect.

    People absolutely deserve protection from discrimination based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, age, physical or mental ability as these are innate human features that cannot be changed.

    People ONLY deserve to have their member of a religion defended to the same extent as they are willing to respect other people. therefore if the islamic headcult promotes hatred against women, gays, christians and jews (which it does) then their demands for protection from religious discrimination should be ignored seeing as they themselves promote and encourage hatred.

  20. It’s pretty obvious this dutch MP doesn’t give a damn about gay people, he is merely using us a tool to promote his psychotic borderline fascist right wing views… ugh

  21. I looked on the home office website. The notion of “protect” is being consitently ignored. Jacqui Smith allowed Bounty Killer in – who advocates our murder. Jacqui Smith then refused Geert Wilders who dares criticise islam.

    I have lived among some of the largest muslim areas of Britain. Muslims are not monolithic, and there are shades of behaviour as well as opinion, but again and again the evidence of my eyes, my personal experiences, concur with programs like dispatches, news images of islamic marches, etc, and demonstrate consistently that aggressive antagonism far outweighs and overwhelms moderation among muslim groups.

    So Jacqui Smith has once again leaned towards those who would murder us.

    I have no doubt that Jacqui Smith would also allow the evil Phelps bag of bile in, since the only consistent position she is applying is supporting those who would kill us.

    Look again at the Home Office website. How does this position square with the claim to protect us? Rory?

  22. On

    I put:

    How can you claim to protect me on this very website, when you allow murder musicians to play and incite homophobic abuse? I have been abused already this year, and your actions show my abusers that their actions are okay; I am a second class citizen in my own country.

    It shows your double standards when you ban Geert Wilders from entering Britain, but allow Bounty Killer to do so. Geert does not advocate the murder of british citizens, Bounty Killer does. How do you justify your sanction of my murder?

    AND Before anyone says “report it”, etc, I now live in the Devon and Cornwall Police area, and the most homophobic police force in the land are not going to do anything for me, they have done nothing on any previous instance.

  23. Rory, Rory, Rory, why oh why are you such a tosspot? I mean that in a caring way? You seem to have no sense of humour and hate Peter T so very much, is it because he is effective and you might be ever so slightly green with envy? We are all in the same tent Rory love, what about trying pissing out of it for a change and respect the efforts of others to make life better for us all?

  24. IVAN GUMILEV 15 Feb 2009, 6:54pm

    In the past I made my love with one Muslim guy in India. He loved it and I loved a lot. We did not discussed religion at all, but loved each other. We never needed religion in our relations, and were perfect without it in the ded (MY bed! the unbeliever’s bed!). I don’t know why I have to hate muslim, who is my best friend, at least… I gess, Mr. Giert Wilders never had the love-making with any muslim guy, and just speaking from the position of white race’s interest. Well, that’s perfectly understandable, but how about the white gays who loves colored Indian muslim gays? How about if I wanted to mary my beloved muslim boy, who loves me as well? I agreed with Rachel on this forum, and certainly it is outrageous not permit white man enter white England, and deprive all critics to see Mr Wilders film and ask him the questions regarding white gays who loved colored muslim boys from India. I love people from India, because they are sweet, nice, pleasant, friendly, and religion never was the problem with them to make love together with unbeliever. I am talking from my own experience, which I had in India.

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