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Trans group concerned about government’s proposed ID cards

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  1. Simon Murphy 10 Feb 2009, 2:47pm

    It won’t be problematic if trans people do the sensible thing and choose not to carry an ID card. They are compulsory in the Netherlands and you are fined 30Eur for not carrying it. No-one really knows what this money is used for. I refuse to carry an ID card (even tbough it’s law). I just think they are a bad idea and unnecessary.

  2. PCG, Germany 10 Feb 2009, 3:09pm

    90% of all Europeans have National ID Cards and the wide majority does not complain. Some countries issue them free of charge (France and Italy) and others charge a fee for them. It is far better way of ID than none – Driving Licenses and Birth Certificates without picture, no way they can identify anyone. Get real and get a proper way of ID.

    I do not really see the fuss for the Gender Reference, many countries do NOT mention the Gender on their ID cards and it is not a big deal. If the the British Government really wants to introduce the National ID Cards, then they should not complicate things – just remove the Gender reference, and it will be fine.

    National ID Cards are a First/Developed World thing, be part of IT or may well end back in the Middle Ages.

  3. Well, I am post-op ( M2F ) and in Luxembourg you have to carry you ID card around with you. And there is clearly marked “M” for male on it. In no way better. And to have my identity changed is a procedure of about 2 years !!! In no way better. Init?

  4. Ryan Haynes - fyi radio 10 Feb 2009, 3:30pm

    This is going to be a challenge for all those who identify as TQQI. I meet many people who identify themselves as androgynous, or neither male or female – I’m sorry, but this is going to be impossible to implement.

    Trans are going to have to deal with applying for a second card with their chosen identity, but we can’t let smaller minorities push back implementation of plans like these – even if the ID card sucks!

  5. With a friend who is intersex, I find it kind of insulting that people have to opt for one of two genders. Just my opinion, but I think it’s ignorant and narrow-minded.
    ID cards are stupid anyway and just an excuse to pry. I don’t believe they’ll help security or anything like that. I also find it incredibly patronising that they’re being offered to young people to start with – as though they’re so easily led and stupid that they’ll be rushing to get one.
    Oh, and I’ve signed the petition :)

  6. Trans people complain too much, change your sex and move on. What part of voluntary is so hard to understand.

  7. PCG, our new driving licences DO have a picture on them. Passports and driving licences also have the sex of the holder on them. Two ID card in different Genders? Jail me!

    Yeah, Jay, and we won’t stop complaining, not for the likes of you or for the bigots who make many Transfolks live a living hell. You think Gay and Lesbian have it hard? Walk a couple of feet in our shoes, you wouldn’t last. Change your sex and move on. Ignorant twat!

  8. Joanna Rowland-Stuart 10 Feb 2009, 9:20pm

    Voluntary? Yeah right! Read the small print in the proposed legislation – the ID card is just one thing – the National ID Register behind it will be unavoidable. At present the only “Designated Documents” will be Passports (for everyone applying or renewing after 2012) and Criminal Convictions Certificates (for airport personnel working airside).
    People applying for a Designated Document will be *compelled* to have an entry on the National Identity Register. And “optionally” apply for an ID card.
    However – “Designation of documents for purposes of registration etc.
    (1) The Secretary of State may by order designate a description of documents for the purposes of this Act. ”

    Which means the next step is to make driving licences, national insurance number cards, NHS medical cards etc Designated Documents and you are hooked matey.

    Then make it compulsory for everyone on the National Identity Register to have an ID card

    Then make it compulsory to carry them

    They say voluntary – but they will make it impossible to have anything approaching a normal existence in 21st century Britain without one.

  9. The ID cards they have in Europe are not comparable to the UK – it’s not just about the plastic in your wallet, it’s about the database behind it storing more information than any Government outside China, and tracking your movements in the process.

    The Database State is about the Government telling you who you are, what your name is, which of two genders you fit into. It’s about them knowing every time you get your ID card checked on the door of a gay club, or every time you buy booze or cigarettes. It’s about them knowing whose profiles you’re viewing on GayDar, and whether you’re sending them an e-mail. It’s about health records from GUM clinics no longer being anonymous, and being able to pry into all services offered to the LGBT communities.

    If your database record “goes wrong” for whatever reason, you may be unable to get a job or see a doctor.

    All this, and it won’t reduce the risk of terrorism (since terrorists tend to have valid, non-false identity documents), stop benefit fraud (since benefit fraud is lying about circumstances, not identity) or stop immigration (because people work in the black market for a pittance and don’t get to see a doctor anyway). It’s not a price worth paying.

    NO2ID is the leading campaign against the Database State. It’s well worth getting involved with people of all social, political, sexual and gender identities to oppose this crazy useless scheme.

  10. Dave, your paranoia is rather entertaining – but nothing of what you said is going to happen due to technical impossibility of most things and impracticality of the rest.

  11. Unfortunately, Alex, my statements are not paranoid rantings but Government policy. You may think they are not going to happen, but the Government are spending your money trying to make it so. As you are aware, a lot of this is a technical impossibility – so what’s going to happen, other than innocent people getting it in the neck when the computer says no?

  12. hugs, Jenny 13 Feb 2009, 8:33am

    I’m less worried about the references in the article to (i) the name on both cards isued to someone in transit being the same, and (ii) the gender originally mis-assigned at birth being recorded in the database for GRC holders. Either of these would breach past EC human rights courts judgements, so sound more like hysteria and disinformation, to me.
    But I’m very worried, on behalf of others, that once again, the social life-needs of those who instinctively gender-identify as both, or neither, are being ignored, and further damaged by this scheme.
    And I’d like to know more about how this might impact on the job-prospects of people in early transit; an area where presentation of a passport or birth certificate to the Personnel Office has often already become mandatory on joining a new employer-firm … how likely is it that this requirement will be replaced by identity card presentation, hence preventing individuals from seeking work (in a new job) in the initial stages of transit, before that crucial second card can be obtained.
    Also; will issue of that second card to transit-ers require a GRS doctor’s report; deepening enforcement of the GRC route on individuals from day 1 of transit, or before … blocking the route many of us who transited all those years ago, in the early days, preferred; in which we found it more acceptable to manage our own social transition, without medical profession involvement, then approach a doctor only a couple of years later, when the real-life test had been fulfilled and we were merely seeking surgery ? Hmmm, althogether; this scheme is worrying, very worrying …..

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