Obviously getting a law degree in this place is a piece of piss then? Becoming a prof of law is a simple as chopping the logic he uses to demonstrate that he is an idiot.
I think this guy is speaking rubbish if he says LGBT people face no discrimination. I do have some patience with these former communist countries though. Places like Poland; Estonia; Romania etc were closed communist dictatorships for about 50 years where no-one was free. Therefore the gay rights movement in those countries are a much more recent phenomenon than in Western Europe. Even though discrimination is felt by gay people the situations are improving slowly. It will take time for sure but I’m fairly confident that as their economies improve that within 20 years gay people’s circumstances will improve. Poland; Estonia; Macedonia etc are not like Saudi Arabia or Iran and we should be careful not to lump them together when we speak of homophobic countries.
Hey, Estonians are pretty tolerant (especially compared to the other post-Soviet countries) to homosexuals, expect the Russians there. Estonia is planning for civil unions, which will be the first post-Soviet country to do that. Also, the county has planned to the join the Nordics for years because Estonia shared many cultural similarities to Nordic nations.
So, don’t put Estonia as the same place with their homophobic Eastern Europe countries and its homophobic neighbors!!
Ah, so it’s all our fault.
Yes, he said that gays behaves act like paranoids, and they are selfish……
Dont expect such a nationalist ex-communist country to behave better…. they even arrest bloggers because they promote friendship between people…..
P.S The country’s name is Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
FYR-Macedonia or FYROM……
Macedonia is a whole geographic region(51% in Greece, 39%Fyrom,10% in Bulgaria) having also 2,500,000 Hellenic population who are different from the Slavic and albanian population of FYROM..
Macedonia is making progress but this fellow’s comments are unfortunate. There are gay groups in the country pushing for more rights and recognition and that will come in the near future. Macedonia has a strong European orientation and is a multi-cultural society.
“Homosexuals stigmatise themselves”
Well, obviously. We like to call ourselves names. We like to encourage others to beat the living crap out of us. We seek solace in the religious of the work and ask they persecute us. We endorse “traditional values” and really don’t need protection for our relationships. We advocate that we be hanged in certain countries.
Has this muppet being living under a rock for the last 40 years? Under a rock on Mars, perhaps?
Hmmmn – Alex – this discussion is about the situation for gay people in Macedonia. It’s not about Greece’s ridiculous reaction to how Macedonia wishes to name itself.
To Alex, keep your coments focussed on the topic. enough of your greek crap propaganda.
Alex, Greece made some great contributions to European culture and democracy.
But that was 3000 years ago. Now its a dirty whole of a kip with as much culture as a Britney Spears video. Who cares what you call it.
That’s not nice Tony. But seriously Greece is behaving in an absolutely ridiculous, laughable manner on the subject of Macedonia’s name. Macedonia makes no territorial claims to any part of Greece so Greece’s insistence that Macedonia be called FYROM is utterly childish and absurd. You’d think they’d have enough to occupy themselves with Greek youth engaged in sustained anti-government riots.
Hey guys.I come from Macedonia, and am gay as well.The topic here is about homophobia, so please let us stick to it, and not same name issue between my country and Greece.Now, as a resident in my country i think it is safe to say that, YES we face a lot of discrimination here.But it is the same in all countries from the former Yugoslav Federation.But i think that we ourselfes as gay are afraid to do something specific about it, becouse, well if nothing else we are afraid of what our parents would say.Becouse they are raised in the Yugoslav Federation, in which homosexuality was a crime, and people were arested on that basis alone.So they see of all the different sexual orientations (other than heterosexual) as somethink twisted and mentally disfunctional.They were raised to believe that gay people would abuse their children, and that that is the only thing on their mind.We were displayed as immoral, nasty, wicked people at that time.I am not sure that any of you realises what we need to fight with here.As far as the younger generations, and buy that i mean everyone born in free and independent Macedonia, i haven’t met a single person that has a problem with this issue.So it’s not the modern society we are fighting with, it’s the relics of the social regime in the former Yugoslav Federation.And actualy, people and politicians raised in that time, are governing our country at the moment, and the same ones are candidates for Presidents, Mayors etc.I hope i had managed to clear something up, if not, please forgive me, but you need to live here, in order to understand.And believe me, the gay issues aside, Macedonia is on of the most beautiful countries on this planet to live in, and i wouldn’t trade it for any other.
Best regards to all of you
Yours, Matrix :)
Hi there, I’m an LGBTQ rights activist in Macedonia, and I have organized the debate on discrimination and sexual orientation, after which the presidential candidates have given their opinion on the problem. Georgi Ivanov have a lot of “bright” comments on a lot of things and people can’t wait to laugh on his “statements” :) unfortunately he is a candidate of the major ruling political party.
After our strong reaction, Georgi Ivanov on the meeting that we had with the all presidential candidates did not apologize but said that how we are going closer to the EU the legislation and mentality is changing and that young people in Macedonia don’t have the traditional mindset, which is in favor of marginalized groups.
We are working on the process of adoption of the General law on protection from discrimination (we are working on this for 5 years, 2 years intensively) as a coalition “Macedonia without discrimination” in which we are around 25-30 human rights organizations. I think that till the half of 2009 the law will be adopted.There was one version of the law proposed by the coalition of NGO’s and one by the Government. We found the Govermental Draft law as unfunctional and we rae continuing with this process. I hope we will have good Law after all.
Matrix, what you described above is the common root of discrimination in pretty much every country. At least in Europe of course. You have old politicians who deny the progress of humanity on every basis and still stick to their dogmatic authoritarian ideals. The problems for gay macedonians is much, much more different.
For the heteronormative majority, lgbt discrimination doesn’t exist simply because of the fact that they don’t wish to see it and; like every problem in Macedonia, polite people don’t talk about it. Unfortunately, I have to admit that to a certain degree Ivanov is correct. The highest amount of discrimination against lgbt minorities in Macedonia comes from it’s own members. Gay people in Macedonia DO stigmatize themselves which of course, is highly unfortunate. Former gay related internet forums are full of biphobia and transphobia, to the degree of complete paranoia and outward hated. There are large numbers of people who’s private information and usually pictures are all over gay meet up sites like Gayromeo or Gaydar, posted by others usually done out of strife or hatred or revenge. Also, a large number of the macedonian gay community lacks any type of cultural emancipation. I am sorry to say that most of it’s members fit in the stereotypes that homophobes have for us. On top of everything, distrust and strife towards the few macedonian ngos that deal with minority rights is rampart amongst the gay community. Before anything, we must learn to respect our own differences lest we are no worse than those who discriminate against us. Even though most of the times that falls on deaf ears, the fight continues.