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Vatican diplomat stresses the principles of “natural law” ahead of Spain visit

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  1. “”Rights are something serious, based in natural law, and cannot be confused with desires.”

    What the hell is he talking about? He’s imposing HIS OWN bigotries to define what’s ‘natural law’. How convenient for him. The idea of Natural Law has had many proponents all with different ideas depending on their backgrounds. And from Natural Law comes Natural Rights.
    I’d think that for most people, everyone being equal would be pretty much the beginning of Natural Law. Obviously not for the Vatican, it seems… They seem to operate on an Animal Farm level and see some people as ‘more equal than others’
    What a vicious bunch this is in the Vatican at the moment.

  2. Andrew Quick 5 Feb 2009, 3:26pm

    Hitler would be so proud

  3. Andrew Quick 5 Feb 2009, 3:29pm

    “”Rights are something serious, based in natural law, and cannot be confused with desires.”

    He is right. It is not natural to believe in God it comes from desire.

  4. Har Davids 5 Feb 2009, 3:36pm

    Rights? Something this church has never granted anyone but itself. After all, they’ve got this old book that explains it all.

  5. Patronising fool. As if rights are anything that religion has ever been concerned about.

  6. Erroll Clements 5 Feb 2009, 4:26pm

    Why doesn’t somebody have the cajone (balls) to tell them to F**K off to where they belong, and put their heads up their own arses where they have always been. One way of making yourself welcome, with sprouting that crap before you’ve arrived?!! OR NOT !

  7. The main problem it seems in believing in the irrational is that it promotes even more irrational thinking. Top of my wish list is that the Catholic Church would fade away sometime soon. I desire all religions to stop being irrational, but that is not rational to believe that will happen is it?

  8. This has NOTHING to do with religion … this is about POWER and CONTROL …. this is interference in the internal business of a sovereign state with a democratically-elected government!

  9. Jen Marcus 5 Feb 2009, 5:06pm

    What is “Natural Law” and who defines and determines it? Is it constant, never changing and absolute or is it relative to the evolution of human awareness and understanding through the accretion of knowledge through science, the cosmos, and an awareness of the uniqueness and diversity of different civilizations and humanity itself. The ancient people and civilizations that authored and compiled the books we know today as the Bible, Koran or for that matter all other “holy” manuscripts from other religious traditions engendered their limited views on the natural order of things and the universe in their texts. But as we all know over time many of those laws, concepts, and so called truths have been questioned and now discredited by science, human experience and understanding: Is the earth the center of the universe? The Roman Catholic Church use to think and teach so and persecuted Galilee for speaking “his truth” on the heliocentric theory. This same Vatican with all its old men in leadership positions is basing “its truth” and natural law on an ancient text subject to its own interpretations from “its” ancient and medieval “Fathers” like Augustine or Thomas Aquinas: their truths which included all their patriarchal biases, prejudices and limited knowledge and understanding of the universe. Yes, I believe there may be a God but the God I believe in cannot be contained in any one, or many books and God’s revelation of self or “truth” will be an eternal and universal process and quest by humanity and all of creation. Therefore, I think this Cardinal, Pope or other leaders of the multiple and varied human religious traditions in the world better keep their limited and questionable truths to themselves, or at the minimum keep them within the confines of their traditions and stop interfering in world politics especially when the end result is the oppression and persecution of some or all of God’s children and creation itself!

  10. These people are really the worst villains western civilisation has ever known. Throughout so much of our history they’ve caused so much harm that I can’t understand how they still exist.
    Aside from that – it seems to me that Nature is very cruel indeed, the strong kills or usurps the smaller or weaker. If we lived by Natural Law we’d be killing each other which is something we tend to frown upon instead.

  11. Eva would also be so proud!

  12. Dear Cardinal, what’s natural about you? You’re spending your whole life denying yourself sex and will die a bitter, frustrated virgin. Now that’s what I call against natural law.

    As Douglas Adams would have put it:

    “Here the man in the cassock accosted us once more but we patiently explained to him that he could f–k off”.

  13. Here’s an interesting section of an article at concordatwatch dot eu

    “Five arguments against secularism and how to reply”

    4. “Natural law…”

    As soon as this term is mentioned, back off for the same reason as above: natural law amounts to whatever the Catholic Church says it is. Historically it’s meant some totally contradictory things, depending upon the current interests of the Vatican. As Prof. Guenter Lewy puts it:

    Natural law is abstract and vague to the point of making its application to concrete cases extremely difficult. It requires an authoritative interpreter, the Church. But this means that the gap between the abstract principles and the case at issue will be closed by answers tied up and almost predetermined by the interests of the Church as an institution. […]
    The German Catholics in 1937 were told that resistance to the Nazi state was sinful;
    Spanish Catholics at the same time were urged to support the rebellion of General Franco against the Second Spanish Republic.
    In World War II Catholics serving in both of the warring factions were assured that they were fighting a just war.
    The institution of slavery was at one time defended by leading theologians as in consonance with natural law. […]

    All these positions have been justified on the basis of the same natural law premises. [1]

    In other words, it’s all just more Vatican smoke’n’mirrors…

    On a lighter note, Bertone looks a lot like Mr Potato Head, doesn’t he?!

  14. Brenton H 6 Feb 2009, 4:48am

    Another old celibate fart in a funny hat!!!!!

  15. Rick George 6 Feb 2009, 10:17am

    The death throws of a dying and outmoded thought system?

  16. I once was married to a chap who had spent seven years as a Roman Catholic priest. Yeah, BIG mistake! He wanted a gay sexual relationship, with lashings of sex, but at the same time he wanted to maintain every ounce of the nonsense spouted by these dinosaurs in Rome. He had spent a good number of years working in the Vatican, in fact. So I have first hand knowledge of living with these totally self-assured but totally indoctrinated and bigoted fools. Argue and discuss and debate as I did, it made no difference. FAITH makes them seemingly unmoveable. Their FAITH has to be utterly SHAKEN for them to begin to dismantle all the nonsense to which they hold dear. That’s the key.

    So how do you shake the faith of these men who live in grandiose buildings in the heart of Rome with servants on every hand? How do you even GET to them? THIS IS THE CHALLENGE.

    ———————————————————

    Is everybody emailing Pink News to complain about this ludicrous dark grey background which makes reading comments difficult, and makes the writing of them somewhat purposeless – because many other people simply won’t bother trying to read them because of the difficulty?

  17. “How do you even GET to them?”

    Well, gay marriage and/or civil partnerships, together with adoption laws, is very seriously rattling them.

    Moreover, the child abuse scandal(s) have also handicapped them and this will be a permanent handicap. They are just using the gay issues to divert attention away from this.

    All the best.

  18. @eddy

    if you highlight the text you may be able read it. I have a white screen on my laptop at home, and a gray screen at work, so it may be a subtle change in setting

  19. Stan James 19 Jul 2009, 7:39am

    Well, one part of christian right wing theory bs seems to be true. The idea of being reborn. I thought the church was opposed to cloning, also. Strangely enough, through rebirth and cloning they have recreated a whole new set of Adolph Hitlers.

    May the Arabs, their cousins in hatred solve the problem of the Catholic church. It would make amends for 9/11. (free speech also)

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