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Tories defend religious opt-out from homophobic incitement law

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  1. Am I wrong to be a little worried about this?

    The Tory party is currently ahead in opinion poll.

    At their last conference their leader praised Thatcher and the changes she made to the country. Those changes included Section 28, a piece of legislation that the fallout from is still being dealt with.

    Now their Shadow Justice Secretary is saying he supports a homophobic amendment to a proposed law.

    We’ve come a long way, but whoever it was that said we have to be careful of our hard won rights was spot on. There will always be those that will want to take our equality away again.

  2. john sexton 26 Jan 2009, 7:08pm

    Just when you begin to think that they have changed they kick us in the teeth again. They just lost my vote again!

  3. They never had my vote. And they never will. They will always be the Nasty Party – mean-minded, homophobic and hateful.

  4. no the grass roots tories haven’t changed very much, I am suspicious of groups like Conservative Christian Fellowship and the Cornerstone Group. There are a lot of well meaning people at the top, but down the ranks is a real vipers’ nest of fanatics.

  5. Tony Lambert 26 Jan 2009, 8:37pm

    Well, anyone who thinks the Tories have become more tolerant of gay people need to wake up and smell the coffee. God help us if this shower of archaic nazi’s get into power.

    A gay voting for a Tory is akin to voting for our own demise.

  6. William Fisher 26 Jan 2009, 9:40pm

    I can’t see myself voting for the Tories in the foreseeable future: for one thing I still haven’t forgiven them for Section 28, among other things.

    But I don’t think that merely urging someone to change his or her sexual orientation should be an offence. People are free to offer or suggest to us all sorts of bloody stupid things, e.g. the Watchtower magazine, “ex-gay” ministries, tarot readings, psychic surgery. Just say no.

  7. Oh! Didn’t you guys know? This is tory lot are the dream team, according to a poster on here.

  8. I hardly think this is a “homophobic” amendment. Are we saying that people shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinion just because we disagree with it? What about if I protest outside Finsbury Park mosque about the homophobic attitudes of many Muslims which offend me? Should I be gagged?

    Anti-gay views are now so ridiculous in the eyes of most people that gay-bashers do themselves more harm than good every time they open their mouths. I say let’s see them hoist by their own petards.

  9. Nothing good comes from free speach – look at the usa !!!

    Or is it just a good reason to vomit anti gay speaches ???

  10. And waht reason would religious loonies urging us to change our sexuality give? They would, of course, remind us that that’s the way to avoid going to hell blah blah blah. So why that isn’t incitement to hatred, I don’t know. The excuse that you’re doing it for that person’s good is disingenuous to say the least. Maybe racists could urge [isert racist term for people from an ethnic minority] to go home, and then insist that they’re only doing it to ‘help’ that person?
    As most rational people believe that an individual’s sexuality is something they’re born with, how can urging them to change it be anything other than offensive? Rather akin to urging black people to be white.
    The fact that ANY political group believes this amendment is OK scares me hugely.

  11. “Fundamentalist Christians claim it will allow them to continue to criticise homosexual sex and urge people to refrain from it.”:
    so just where does the right ot inflict one’s opinions on someone who doesn’t want to hear or discuss them, or even TALK to you, come from?

    We ALL have a right to go about our lives without being bothered by interfering busybodies!

  12. i have never voted tory and never will, i don’t see how anyone who grew up under Thatcher and Tebbitt and their like could even consider it BUT they are going to form the next government, I’m sure if this legislation doesn’t get passed under labour then it will either never become law or will be so amended as to become meaningless.

  13. I cannot be bought with this specious legal protection and will be voting Tory as I am fed up of the spin, deceit and incompetence of the Labour Party.

    Yes, the Labour party have improved the rights of gay people, but you cannot divorce this from the fact that everything else they touch (Education, economy, health service) has turned to cr*p on their watch.

    Facile comparisons to the tories of 20 years ago are laughable and unhelpful – would the party of that era have two openly gay men in the shadow cabinet?

  14. Let religious buffoons say what they like, as long as they don’t explicitly incite violence or repeat slanders and lies about us likely to do so. People have a right to tell me not to have sex, just as I have a right to tell them to desist from their irrational beliefs. I am as likely to pay them attention as they are me.

  15. Simon Murphy 27 Jan 2009, 12:50pm

    Proof (as if any wwas needed) that the Tories remain a sneaky bunch of bigots whose claims that they are no longer vicious homophobes is evidently rubbish. Gay people would be stupid beyond belief to vote for a party of bigots. Will we see Alan Duncan resign his position in the Tories because of this. Of course not – the gay Toris loyalties lie with the bigots – not with the gay community

  16. Vulpus_rex 27 Jan 2009, 1:35pm

    I have no doubt that there are bigots in the Tory party but they exist in equal measure in the Labour party.

    I thank Tony Blair for civil partnerships but cannot overlook the massive failiings of Gordon Brown as chancellor or prime minister. Corrupt, mendacious and incompetent he cannot be permitted to carry on and no amount of bullying or smear will make me feel bad about voting him out of office.

    I will not roll over and have my tummy tickled like a good little gayboy by the labour party just because there is once piece of good legislation amongst all the rot.

  17. “I have no doubt that there are bigots in the Tory party but they exist in equal measure in the Labour party.”

    Christ people actually believe this? No-one wonder the Tories are ahead in the polls when people are so keen to look over the actual facts.

    If you bother to look at the voting records you’d see that there is not a single piece of gay rights legislation that had more Labour opponents than Tory, there’s not even one that was close to parity in Labour/Tory opposition.

    The vast majority of Labour MPs supported the 2007 Equality Act which banned discrimination toward gays (248 ayes to 10 noes) whilst the majority of Tories thought differently (29 ayes to 83 noes).

    Please feel free to use legitimate criticisms against Labour but don’t pull claims like “there are as many homophobes in Labour as in Conservatives” out of your arse.

  18. I grew up and discovered my secuality during the Thatcher years. It was the time of the horrific onslaught of AIDS. Consequently Tory thinking and the way it was portrayed and delivered to us, through policy and the right wing media, had quite an impact on my view of the world – it’s rights and its wrongs.

    I have yet to be convinced by the Cameron ‘brand’ of ‘changed Conservatism. Whatever you think about Labour – Blair or Brown, it cannot be argued that they have not done more to improve the rights gays and lesbians than the Tories, for all their new ‘spin’ have EVER done. Scratch the surface of the Tory party and you find people who still yearn for Thatcher and her brand of divisive, racist, homophobic little Englandism.

    (The word I have to type to ‘verify’ this post is ‘sewage’. I just noticed that now and can’t help but remember that it’s how I felt they thought of me when they got into power on a lanslide and decided they had a mandate to pass Section 28 into law. No one wants to make the mistake of walking into the same lamppost twice …)

  19. Sister Mary Clarence 28 Jan 2009, 1:19am

    moam – please google Miranda Grell

  20. Tories never ever served anything, and won’t do any good for gay people, ever.

  21. freedom to inflict misguided religious opinion on often vulnerable people is the thin edge of the hate speech wedge. Religious arrogance bolstered by majority rule has never served anyone, much less gay and ‘other thinking groups’.
    too many bigots are to insinuate their agendas in the name of ‘freedom of speech’ and many lives are corrupted, cast aside and wilfully sabotaged as a consequence. Well meaning = manipulative as a rule – these people are supported by supposed free speech – best they are restrained by any means available.

  22. “Please feel free to use legitimate criticisms against Labour but don’t pull claims like “there are as many homophobes in Labour as in Conservatives” out of your arse.”

    Charmingly and articulately expressed – did you google Miranda Grell as suggested? I was talking about the Labour party as whole not the Parliamentary party, and yes the latter do conform to your narrow little bubble view of the Labour party but I think you’ll find at grass roots level there are just as many homophobes as amongst Tory supporters.

    Incidentally, you may want to also look at Tom Harris’s blog, a Labour MP where he dismisses this whole issue as a giant fuss about nothing – does that make him a vicious, crypto-nazi homophobe?

    Anyway homophobia in any particular political party is at the moment an enormous red -herring. Gordon Brown’s criminal incompetence is the reason why the Tory party are ahead in the polls, not alleged homophobia – David Cameron could be found in bed with a rent boy tomorrow and Labour are still going to get a richly deserved kicking at next general election, when the coward Brown condescends to actually call one that is.

  23. Sister Mary Clarence 28 Jan 2009, 12:08pm

    What a large part of the audience here is failing to understand is that the current recession, which may very well become a depression is going to hit gay people in some ways harder than straight people.

    Under Labour’s wise rule/dictate from Europe (depending on how closely you read the small print folks), we have seen changes in equality laws that have brought us a more equitable life. The changed in legislation have married well with changes in social attitudes, and whilst religion has often been an annoyance, it has not provided to be a real obstacle to change in the same was as some other countries.

    By replacing lost industry with a booming banking sector, built on bundling up shite and selling it on to other people under the auspices of the emperors new clothes, flogging half our centuries-held gold reserves when they were valued at their lowest point probably this century, plundering our North Sea deposits, and borrowing to the hilt to fund new schools, hospitals, military bases, and all other essential infrastructure under public private finance and private finance initiatives, we have, truth been told, had a few good years.

    However, the world has caught on we’re been fleecing them by selling shite, to gold is gone along with most of the oil and the Chinese have made is clear they are not going to keep lending money to the West to bail them out of recession.

    People will be fighting for jobs – gay and straight. Yes, we might be better looking and funnier, but those are not prerequisites for many occupations. As life becomes considerably less sweet for many, every piece of research shows that tolerance tends to go right out the window. Racism, homophobia, xenophobia and religious intolerance are going to sky rocket. The clock will be turned back on the social advances that although only relatively recently enjoyed, that many of us have quickly begun to take for granted. Black people, gay people, women and the disabled will be considered less worthy for jobs or promotion as we plunge into dark times. The embittered masses will seek out anyone and anything out of the norm to vent their anger on and attribute blame to.

    There will be a Conservative government irrespective of whether David Cameron stands naked in Compton Street and publicly apologises for the actions of a party leader in power many years before he even joined to Tories. A few God-bothering old Conservatives might get up from time to time and say we are an affront to God, and a few of us might get up straight afterwards and tell them that they are too, by now we should be mature enough to deal with it. However, the Equality legislation is here to stay, our membership of Europe requires that it does. Bankrupt Britain has less choice than ever over retaining membership of the ‘common market’ in view of Mr Brown’s economic incompetence, and we can’t back out of one without the other.

    The gay community has to choose whether is going to be a stakeholder in society for the next 15 year under Conservative rule, or whether we are going sit outside in the cold reminiscing over the golden age of New Labour spin.

    I have no doubt that sometime soon a Conservative MP WILL be caught in bad with a rent boy (although probably not going to be David Cameron – but hey who knows). It will affect nothing. Less likely though, will be any repeat of the utter corruption endemic to the Labour Party that we have seen over the last three terms of government.

  24. Sister Mary Clarence 28 Jan 2009, 12:10pm

    oops – ‘in bed’ with ….

  25. Niko Westmuellen 28 Jan 2009, 5:44pm

    We must be ever vigilant, disregarding the politics and the party in power. Tories have for too long erred on the side of ‘plain wrong’ and display an innate inability to ‘think correctly’. This is something to so with the conservative/right thinking black and white nothing in-between logic so extremely demonstrated by the conservatives in the US that we need to fight. Let’s not confuse corruption and bigotry. Labour maybe corrupted by power, but it is perhaps less of a bigoted party than the Conservatives who ten years ago would have shot on sight those within its party that today promulgate ‘compassion’, ‘fairness to asylum seekers’, ‘understandingirish nationalists’, ‘gay’, ‘underpriviliged’ … the list is endless.

    The devil may cite scripture to suit his cause…. :-)

  26. Sister Mary Clarence 28 Jan 2009, 7:57pm

    Niko – I think the ‘maybe’ in your last posting is superfluous. You’d probably have to go back as far as the Tudors to anything like the corruption we are seeing today from New Labour.

    When the Tories got booted out before, there were countless instances of individuals getting caught with their pants down, cheating on their spouses with rent boys, fiddling expenses and having it away on a cheap holiday either at the expense of the tax payer, or at the bequest of someone courting a bit of favour.

    However, we are labouring (pardon the pun) under what is undoubtedly the most crooked government for over a century.

    We had members of the Lords selling votes in the upper house, seats in the Lords being sold for party donations, more government ministers and their aides than you could shake a stick at that haven’t ‘understood’ legislation that they passed to trace party donations, Tony Blair lying to the Commons over donations from the motor racing industry, down right lies over why the country to entering into war, a minister in charge of the Olympics purse who didn’t ‘notice’ her husband was sleeping with the mafia instead of her of a night.

    The Labour spin machine has spun all statistical information so far from reality, its impossible to know what is really happening in the country. The prisons are full, but we now know that many forces are not only not investigating crimes, but not recording it either. The streets have never been more dangerous and that’s before the discontent of the recession really kicks in. New Labour’s corruption is an utter perversion of our democratic government.

    Gay loving Labour has done everything to court our votes, reminding always about the dangers of the big, bad Tories, but gay and no vote, and you can f**k off back where you came from – keep you’re head down and don’t look gay when you get home and you’ll be fine.

    Its time for change, Labour have given everything they have and its just getting ugly now. The Tories will come in with lots of new ideas and things will get better for a while and then they’ll all turn to sh*t as well. It’s the cycle of life. Gordon waited a long time to be Prime Minister, so he won’t want to admit defeat easily, but he is an incompetent fool who is out of his depth and drowning.

    I wait with interest to see if he invokes the Enabling Act introduced by this government in 2006, where Clement Attlee and Oswald Moseley failed in the past. The Regulatory Reform Bill is like a knife in the hands of a mad man and with it, we have gifted Gordon Brown the power to bypass all democratic channels of government, repeal laws and re-write the statute books.

  27. Niko Westmuellen 29 Jan 2009, 5:32pm

    Dear Sister Mary Clarence, where the f**k do u think I come from? Judging from your enormous amnesia, I’m beginning to think you are David Cameron in drag. Or that you are 12 years old and in dire need to write an essay for school? Power corrupts, be in no doubt, but I’ll be damned if your type of conservatism offers a truer set of rules and laws based on principles of freedom. Typical ruminations of a conservative with a self interest to let your will run riot. Obsession with corruption is one thing, believing that that the Conservatives offer a better type of freedom is covering a self interest. By the way, what are you wearing?

  28. Bill Perdue 29 Jan 2009, 8:33pm

    It never fails. First we’re offered a carrot or two, and never mind that they’re moldy and putrid. Carrot 1. “… David Cameron stands naked in Compton Street and publicly apologises for the actions of a party leader in power many years before he even joined to Tories”. Carrot 2 ” I have no doubt that sometime soon a Conservative MP WILL be caught in bad with a rent boy…” .

    Then the equally unwholesome stick. “The gay community has to choose whether is going to be a stakeholder in society for the next 15 year under Conservative rule, or whether we are going sit outside in the cold reminiscing over the golden age of New Labour spin.

    Clearly New Labour is no longer a party that can be relied on to defend the ultimate interests of the GLBT communities or working people in general and that’s important if the recession in North America and East Asia slides into depression. But the Tories are much, much worse. They’re the party of big business, of union busting, of attacks on social programs.

    In the US we have a saying that applies to minorities and employment: last hired, first fired. It seems to me that the unfortunate choice LGBT folks face in England is the choice between a pro business party with a vested interest in paying low wages based on discrimination like the Tories or one which at least panders to our communities, however they came to do it.

    That will continue to be a problem until the combination of global economic chaos and unwinnable wars in South Asia and Southwest Asia throws up a mass left party to replace New Labour.

  29. the other half 2 Feb 2009, 10:52pm

    wait a minute.

    DG said that people should be allowed to say thinmgs we find objectionable and IO agree with him. He didn’t defend these people’s views indeed he said he disagrees with these views.

    A story about nothing, propaganda for a party that has today said it doesn’t want Women in the workplace.

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