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Ministry of Justice accused of “collusion” over Cardinal Newman exhumation

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  1. Robert, ex-pat Brit 3 Nov 2008, 6:43pm

    I know of no other candidate for sainthood whose remains were exhumed and buried elsewhere as a prerequisite for sainthood to be declared. This is clearly about the RC cult’s stand on sexual orientation. What could be so important to warrant entire pages of script being blacked out? What’s that about exactly? What is it that they fear so much for it to be made a matter of public interest. Peter Tatchell is right….they are hiding something. If you ask me, its about being publicly embarrassed and humiliated for allowing such authorisation and I wouldn’t mind betting that it contains language that we in the LGB community would find highly offencive. It is so transparent! Maybe when Cameron is elected, he could enlighten us as to the contents of the authorisation that were so sensitive that they could not be made public under the current administration. If he doesn’t, then it will confirm what we suspect.

  2. PCG from Portugal 3 Nov 2008, 11:11pm

    The Roman Catholic Church has been lobbying Sovereign Governments for the past 2000 years. The only solution is to establish fully Secular Government, where Religion does not interfere in Sovereign matters.

    The Turkish Army and Constitutional court is fighting hard for Secularism and should this have taken place in Turkey, then the Catholic Justice Minister, Bridget Prentice MP, would have been sacked straight away.

    It is also unbelievable how the last wishes of Cardinal Henry Newman are being broken, this is a matter of Human Rights and it should be taken to the European Court of Human Rights.

  3. Abi Chrisopher 4 Nov 2008, 3:00am

    What about Newmans human rights he stated where he wanted to be buried. How can the church overwrite his own wishes 118 years later? The government and the church should be held to account on this.

  4. WE must do all WE can to ensure that the quietly manipulative Catholic Church (which acts in very similar ways to the Mafia and the Masons) does NOT get away with this. We must KEEP ON PUBLICISING this matter. We must give Peter Tatchell every encouragement. He’s very good at getting matters in the public arena, into the media. It’s not an easy thing to do when 24% of the current adult population of the UK thinks that homosexuality should be recriminalised! (Observer newspaper poll, Oct 2008.)

  5. Robert Ex-Pat Brit, do you have a blog site? You should have, if you don’t. I, for one, would visit it. There are people who don’t like your views but there are many who do! So if you haven’t a blog site, do set one up and include your URL after any comments you leave here at The Pink. Google’s Blogger seems quite good. You could use the articles on The Pink and at Queerty as stimuli for your postings on your blog.

  6. Typical that the RC church can’t even let the dead lie in peace if there is any possibility that they could have been Gay or at least very Gay freindly!!! IN light of the Gay test to be used against perspective priests how does The late Cardinal fit in? He would, I am sure, if he was alive today be pragmatic and not hostile.

  7. If the church can manipulate the goverment as easily as it seems – I’m worried!

  8. Since I’m quoted at the end of this report, I’d just like to clarify some facts for Robert. Roman Catholic Canon Law procedures around the processes of beatification (1st stage) and canonisation (2nd stage) require that before there is any public veneration of the candidate’s bodily remains in a church shrine or tomb,they are verified as those of the person concerned. In some cases, when bodies have been exhumed in this process, the body has been found not to have corrupted, and this has often been taken into account as evidence of a saintly character. Such exhumation is usually a private process, but given the controversy regarding possible separation of Newman’s remains from those of Ambrose St. John, it’s not surprising that it attracted wider attention.

  9. theotherhalf 4 Nov 2008, 1:58pm

    ‘If the church can manipulate the goverment as easily as it seems – I’m worried!

    Comment by Charlene — November 4, 2008 @ 13:10’

    —well since members of the Cabinet are members of a secretive fundamentalist sect within the RC secretive fundamentalist sect then it’s a surprise they didn’t do it straight away really.

  10. Robert, ex-pat Brit 4 Nov 2008, 2:58pm

    Martin thank you. I am aware of the canonisation process having been born a cradle catholic until my early 20s, but have long since renounced it. Thank you again.

    Eddy, sorry,no I don’t have my own blog site. Of course, I’ll always have many who disagree with me, that’s the beautiful part of democracy, agreeing to disagree and there are others who don’t understand what democracy means and think that one has to be born in the UK and reside there in order to be entitled to make any comment, positive or negative. They are usually neocons, racists, nationalists who see the world through their eyes only, either its their way or the highway, no compromise, but absolutism. Those types see everything as black and white, no grey areas whatsoever and those of us who question anything or offer constructive criticism because we care so much about an issue are lambasted and told to shut up and in my case, to mind my own business since I no longer live permanently in the UK even though I still have British citizenship and continue to contribute employer taxes to the Inland revenue, but which according to the neocons who post on this site precludes me from saying anything negative about the country of my birth. Everything to them is hunky dory even when things are bad let alone wrong. I always know when I’ve hit a raw nerve when they go ballistic and resort to foul language, accusations, innuendo, fabrications and lies in order to sew division and hopefully alienate me. I’m not afraid of bullies and refuse to be intimidated by any of them. Thank you again for your kind words.

  11. Newman had had a very close same-sex relationship before that with Ambrose St. John. This was with Hurrell Froude, also a clergyman and also a member of the Oxford Movement and a great admirer of the Roman Catholic Church. Quoting from Owen Chadwick’s authoritative ‘The Victorian Church, Part One, 1829-1859’, “Hurrell Froude left an indelible mark on Newman. No one took Froude’s place in Newman’s heart until Ambrose St. John joined him….in 1843. He loved Froude as a man….” and “Ambrose St. John, aged 28, who at last filled in Newman’s life the gap of affection left by Hurrell Froude”. Newman published Hurrell Froude’s private papers and their Roman Catholic leanings caused a scandal in 1838; Chadwick comments that “Newman had been led by intimacy” to misjudge the effect their publication would produce. It seems very highly likely that Newman was gay; whether he remained celibate while with Hurrell Froude and Ambrose St. John is unclear.we

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