I’ve got to admire the balls of whoever sent the first gay envoy to the Vatican! Are they simply trying to raise Darth Ratzinberger’s blood pressure? If so, kudos to them. However it does smack of liasing with a club that wouldn’t have you as a member.
It’s the same old story of twisted hypocrites and bigots- after paying out millions of dollars for their staff raping little boys, they reject an OPEN gay guy with a partner. They still feel they can play their sad twisted power games.
There is nothing new under the sun. For years the Vatican wouldn’t recognize the State of Israel, and instead was happy to grant recognition to undemocratic, authoritarian Arab states. Eventually they got around to it, as they will eventually be forced to deal with Gay people’s rights. But they will only do so after their usual labyrinthine creepiness. This will involve intensive casuistical efforts, to dodge and weave in every weasel way, to get around the basic human rights issue. I had a friend
in the seminary years ago who is now a Bishop in Seattle, Joseph Tyson, engaged in this most shallow acrobatics against gay rights. This kind of repulsive discrimination will of course be condemned by history. but I can say that having known someone who was a decent human being at one time, who is now a prop for a disastrous violation of rights, by way of verbal mincings,
is an experience which only girds one to fight discrimination more and more. That is to say clearly
that the Vatican’s attempts to deny credible diplomats, or simply credible life partners is an utterly damnable thing and a great shame for those involved.
France should tell the Vatican where it can get off. They should withdraw their ambassador and not send any replacement. What could the Vatican realistically do? It’s not like they trade, it’s not like they supply techinical expertise to the French and they have no oil or gas to export.
The sooner that ex-Nazi realises he can’t open his bigoted mouth, blab some load of crap and get respected for it by world leaders, the sooner he will fade into the insignificance he richly deserves.
For once, I’m inclined to agree with flapjack – it does rather look as though the French are trying to piss off the Pope. France (a staunchly Catholic nation, of course, though constitutionally secular) has always had a rather insubordinate attitude towards Rome. This should be a reminder that the gap between the Catholicism preached from the Vatican and the Catholicism practiced in the pews are miles apart. At some stage, something’s got to give.
We shouldn’t get too worked up about this. After all the biggest loser in this will be the Vatican. They will lose the best candidate who might have been most effective in post, in favour of someone who may be less competent but morally ‘acceptable’. Short-termism but that’s what the curia are like – and why they’re increasingly ignored politically and make little global impact. Of course we know the Vatican turns a blind eye to morality when it suits them in diplomatic terms anyway – look at the way that Benedict never said a word when visiting divorced president Sarkohzy.
Again, the Institution fails to show leadership and humanitarian qualities in the public realm. I am sure, to individuals in the church it has shown deep understanding, even though history tells of other tales to other people. If the sexual inference became detached from the gay identity we may have less trouble. When the word heterosexual is spoken it is not immediately coloured with damnation and sexual implications. There are so many good gays around whose identity is partly sexual, but have other interests as well and codes of morality. Let us concentrate on providing interesting identities for gays. It is very important.
I am not sure my comments were left, so I’ll briefly state them. the gay identity in the eye of the public needs looking at. It is not successful. The image of the homosexual has not the same welcome as the heterosexual image, even though this group commit more crimes. The gay person is all too often seen in sexual terms and this is too simplistic. There are many gay people who do not like to be read in this manner. Somewhere there needs to be a ‘department’ which looks after the image of the homosexual, and this is only a start!
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I’ve got to admire the balls of whoever sent the first gay envoy to the Vatican! Are they simply trying to raise Darth Ratzinberger’s blood pressure? If so, kudos to them. However it does smack of liasing with a club that wouldn’t have you as a member.
It’s the same old story of twisted hypocrites and bigots- after paying out millions of dollars for their staff raping little boys, they reject an OPEN gay guy with a partner. They still feel they can play their sad twisted power games.
There is nothing new under the sun. For years the Vatican wouldn’t recognize the State of Israel, and instead was happy to grant recognition to undemocratic, authoritarian Arab states. Eventually they got around to it, as they will eventually be forced to deal with Gay people’s rights. But they will only do so after their usual labyrinthine creepiness. This will involve intensive casuistical efforts, to dodge and weave in every weasel way, to get around the basic human rights issue. I had a friend
in the seminary years ago who is now a Bishop in Seattle, Joseph Tyson, engaged in this most shallow acrobatics against gay rights. This kind of repulsive discrimination will of course be condemned by history. but I can say that having known someone who was a decent human being at one time, who is now a prop for a disastrous violation of rights, by way of verbal mincings,
is an experience which only girds one to fight discrimination more and more. That is to say clearly
that the Vatican’s attempts to deny credible diplomats, or simply credible life partners is an utterly damnable thing and a great shame for those involved.
France should tell the Vatican where it can get off. They should withdraw their ambassador and not send any replacement. What could the Vatican realistically do? It’s not like they trade, it’s not like they supply techinical expertise to the French and they have no oil or gas to export.
The sooner that ex-Nazi realises he can’t open his bigoted mouth, blab some load of crap and get respected for it by world leaders, the sooner he will fade into the insignificance he richly deserves.
For once, I’m inclined to agree with flapjack – it does rather look as though the French are trying to piss off the Pope. France (a staunchly Catholic nation, of course, though constitutionally secular) has always had a rather insubordinate attitude towards Rome. This should be a reminder that the gap between the Catholicism preached from the Vatican and the Catholicism practiced in the pews are miles apart. At some stage, something’s got to give.
We shouldn’t get too worked up about this. After all the biggest loser in this will be the Vatican. They will lose the best candidate who might have been most effective in post, in favour of someone who may be less competent but morally ‘acceptable’. Short-termism but that’s what the curia are like – and why they’re increasingly ignored politically and make little global impact. Of course we know the Vatican turns a blind eye to morality when it suits them in diplomatic terms anyway – look at the way that Benedict never said a word when visiting divorced president Sarkohzy.
Again, the Institution fails to show leadership and humanitarian qualities in the public realm. I am sure, to individuals in the church it has shown deep understanding, even though history tells of other tales to other people. If the sexual inference became detached from the gay identity we may have less trouble. When the word heterosexual is spoken it is not immediately coloured with damnation and sexual implications. There are so many good gays around whose identity is partly sexual, but have other interests as well and codes of morality. Let us concentrate on providing interesting identities for gays. It is very important.
I am not sure my comments were left, so I’ll briefly state them. the gay identity in the eye of the public needs looking at. It is not successful. The image of the homosexual has not the same welcome as the heterosexual image, even though this group commit more crimes. The gay person is all too often seen in sexual terms and this is too simplistic. There are many gay people who do not like to be read in this manner. Somewhere there needs to be a ‘department’ which looks after the image of the homosexual, and this is only a start!
There is only room for one queen in the Vatican City State!
There is room for only one queen in the Vatican!