The British government should raise this France. It’s totally unfair.
well – what do you expect????
The government gave us Civil partnerships and the protesters were quiet – they thought they’d gotten equality – they hadn’t they’d gotten a concession!
But the goverment played a canny card – it shut up the rabble and the most outspoked have since entered into these dodgy partnerships
Elton would look a fool if he went back on it now wouldn’t he???
It’s the gay populous again being THICK and not looking at the bigger picture
So stop whinging and get fighting – fight for TRUE EQUALITY!
so CP ISN’T the same as marriage it all practical terms
It was only a matter of time before the chickens came home to roost.
Don’t hold your breath for G Brown to do anything about this…the sanctimonious hypocrite fought Civil Partnerships in cabinet to the last and delayed implementation by 6 months..Brown doesn’t like gays.He won’t do a damn thing about this.
“We should have equal rights. The Civil Partnership Act recognises all legally registered partnerships in the world.”
WRONG! The UK does NOT recognise legally performed marriages conducted in Canada, Holland, Belgium, Spain, or South Africa. What it does is downgrade them to civil partnerships which they most definitely are NOT especially in the case of British same-sex couples who marry overseas! The UK’s is a screwed up system and its definitely not about equality. Its segregation plain and simple.
So France recognises same sex marriages performed in Holland….well…the UK doesn’t even do that! Good for France!
As for what “p” said earlier…”It’s the gay populous again being THICK and not looking at the bigger picture.So stop whinging and get fighting – fight for TRUE EQUALITY!”
P….exactly! I stand vindicated and I don’t give a damn about the anti-marriage mob who post in here. Marriage is the gold standard all around the world, civil partnerships, pacs, civil unions NEVER will be no matter how you skew it. Why should any British couple have to travel outside their own country to marry anyway? Shouldn’t we have at least the right to marry or not to? Why deny us that basic civil and human right and if CPs are so equal, open them up to straight couples.
And I hope France doesn’t cave in to arrogant British pressure as Spain did to recognise CPs. The UK doesn’t even recognise same-sex MARRIAGES performed in Spain for what they are. No, they have to call them civil partnerships (which they are indeed NOT)…please…..its absurd! Only the Brits could behave like jackasses on this one.
apYrs. yes, “The chicken are coming home to roost”. Long may it continue.
At least French gay couples as well as other gay couples in Europe and Europe would not have to undergo the awful treatment of having to pay 60% IHT in the U.K. British CPs in France do and this is a disgrace, French gay couples, as well as those from Holland pay 0% IHT. It is even impossible for British gay couples to perform a French version of the same sex partnership since although it isn’t recognised for anything else in France , the French registrars refuse British CPs to do a PACS becuase they are not single. It is absurd, British CPS can not protect themselves in France. They can’t get “divorced” to a French PACS becuase getting divorced to do a PACS isn’t a valid legal reason in British courts to get a divorce. So CPs in France , as well as civil unions from Denmark, or future Irish civil partners are truly discriminated against in France and the British government and European parliament should be bringing pressure on the French government to get at least a reciprical agreement. What are the British gay organisations doing about it?
Olive, there’s one very simple way to resolve all of it. Let the EU mandate that gay people be given the basic civil right to marry and get rid of those absurd PACS, Civil Unions, Civil Parterships once and for all, they are not equal to marriage and never will be which is why couples are having these problems. Those who want the latter, let them have them, but don’t deny the rest of us who want the option to marry. Straight couples should also be allowed to form partnerships, unions if they so wish and don’t want to marry. Marriage is the only internationally recognised legal union, it always has been, always will be. Six countries now offer marriage to gay couples and a seventh is about to. Its going to come, inevitable whether the gay anti-marriage proponents like it or not.
I know all this is going to change soon for the better and it is good that is discussed here. In my case, I’m a Greek citizen in a gay relationship with a lovely American man almost 7 years now. I’m currently visiting for 6 months (got a legal permission to stay for business and tourism) my partner in Wisconsin where he lives, but of course I am not allowed to stay more. Equally, he has visited many times Athens Greece where I reside. We now want to join our lives but I guess our union will not be recognized by the federal US state (let alone Greece, where the situation is even more “inconvenient”). My partner says “we must endure and endure day by day…” and I do agree – we have no option – this is what we have been doing for years now. I would appreciate it if anyone of you guys could point us to the right direction.
Thank you – my apologies if my comment turned this subject into a more personal issue, but i feel basically we are all connected by similar issues.
Nick, if money isn’t an issue, you could both go over the border and get married in Canada which is nearer than California or Massachusetts. Having done that, could your partner afford to move to either of those two states or even New York? Even though New York State doesn’t yet have marriage equality with legislation pending for 2009….you could also move there. New York State recognises same-sex marriages that are performed in other states and countries. The UK does not recognise same-sex marriages, only civil partnerships which wouldn’t do you any good if you decided to come to the UK. Personally, I’d advise you to stay well away. Good luck to both of you. We will win, inevitably.
Robert – I think you will be waiting a very long time for Europe as whole to recognise gay marriages and civil partnerships, some countries don’t even recognise a divorce. Pressure should be put on individual governments (recipricol agreements etc) and France which brought in PACS long before British CPs should be fairly receptive to a bit of pressure, after all there is quite a lot of pressure from within and Sarkozy has made major changes to PACS inheritance rules in the last year, they’re even talking about bringing in their own civil unions specifically for gay couples. As for Europe there are various rules such as freedom of movement of individuals, human rights issues and discrimination (direct and indirected) they can fight on. For instance it isn’t just linked to IHT, if I was CPed to an Australia citizen then I’d have great difficulty in getting him a visa to go to France. It’s not rocket science to work out a gay couple in a CP in the U.K is the same as a gay couple in a PACS in France etc, it would be nice to have a universal gay marriage but we’re stuck with a CP and unfortunately more and more countries are going toward CPs rather than marriages.
This is not new!!!! France refuses to recognises any form of CP other than the PACS. This is because even though th elaw promulgating the PACS is valid, the application decrees were never passed. Thus French administrations, inluding the tax office cannot recognise a British CP. This is nothing short of outrageous and I am amazed that the UK organisations that were so vocal against Spain are not interested in doing the same against France.
Why not support legally and finacially Mr Soares and help him build a case against this at the ECHR in Strasbourg?
Yes, but the British CP IS recognised by the French registrar who refuses to allow British CPs to safeguard themselves by doing a French PACS. When it comes to performing a French PACS the French regard you as already in a civil partnership equivalent to the PACS. Yet if you are a French national in a CP with your British partner then you are still also allowed to do a PACS as well, presumably to safeguard your assets in France. It is completely unfair and yes France should be taken to the human rights court and also the British gay organisations should be funding this and pushing this issue with the British government and getting a reciprical agreement if France fails to change.
@ Robert, ex-pat Brit
Thank you Robert for your kind information. We could go and live in California or New York, but according to my American partner the problem is not where we get married or where we live in the USA. The issue is that the American FEDERAL Government does not recognize the gay marriage. THEY are the ones who control immigration and entry into the USA – not the States. And since they don’t recognize gay marriage, foreign people coming to the US are treated all alike – you are allowed to stay for so long, unless one can change his Visa restrictions for professional reasons. If anyone can show us a legal way to stay longer with my American partner in the USA, myself along with others, would sure like to know.
Again, thank you for taking the time.
Oliver, PACS, Civil Unions….are not going to be the norm. Six (6) countries abandoned them for marriage and a seventh country, Sweden, will be next. Two states in the U.S.A. now offer marriage and California had domestic partnerships (or civil partnerships) long before the UK did. New York state doesn’t have any state domestic partnership or civil union law in place, but is confined to certain areas of the state that provide them. The states of New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont and New Hampshire offer civil unions. New Jersey is currently mulling the abandonment of its own civil unions to full marriage equality. However, New York state does have pending marriage equality legislation which if the Democrats win control of the state senate in November, will bring the bill to the floor and pass marriage equality legislation for LGB people. Former Governor Eliot Spitzer who drafted the marriage equality bill was the first in the nation to do so. He realised that civil unions were not about equality but segregating an entire group of people from the mainstream. Having similar rights to marriage is not equality at all, no matter how you try to skew it. Europe now has 4 countries that have abandoned second class partnerships and a fifth is about to join them. So no, I don’t agree that Civil Partnerships/PACS are the way to go nor will they be the norm.
Until gay marriage is universally accepted then at least countries offering a same sex partnership should give foreign nationals at least equal opportunities offered to their own nationals. I think being treated better than someone in their own country in the same circumstances would be great but I don’t think being treated worse than a national in his own country in the same circumstance is right. If the country doesn’t accept the foreign partnership then at least give the foreign national the opportunity to be able to protect themselves by doing what is available in that country.