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Churches should speak out after gay teen dies in hate crime

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  1. Robert, ex-pat Brit 4 Aug 2008, 4:58pm

    “Churches should speak out after gay teen dies in hate crime”.

    Not going to happen….where were they when Jody Dobrowski was murdered? NOWHERE! What did Rowan Williams say? NOTHING! What did the good cardinal of Westminster say? NOTHING! What did the grand rabbi of the UK say? NOTHING! What did the leading Imam say? NOTHING! Silence definitely does give consent. They will continues to say or do nothing about poor Michael Causer either.

  2. Robert, I think you are so right. When the Admiral Duncan pub bombing took place Cardinal Hume rushed to condemn it on the BBC. He was the first and shamed the then ABp of Canterbury, Carey, to make his own broadcast. But there is no one of the calibre of Hume around today. They are all running scared of the homophobic Christian fundies at the Christian Institute and Anglican Mainstream.

  3. I’m sorry to say it, but had he been black, the great and the good would be taking every opportunity to condemn it publically, vocally, and self-servingly.

  4. I agree with the above….responsibilty for the homophobia and indeed deadly violence against young gay men lies directly at the door of the Pope-a Bavarian German with a dubious wartime past and significant Nazi connections who has fomented gay hate.Responsibility lies also with the weak and vacillating Rowan Williams who seems now to be blaming homosexuals not remaining shut away in the Church of England closet for the problems created by the Black Bishops and their fellow travellers who are falling in line with Muslim gay-hate and bigotry.The whole area of religious duplicity simply renders religion increasingly irrelevant to the UK population as a whole ,gay or straight and indeed renders it beneath contempt as utterly hypocritical.

  5. Yes, there must be a MASSIVE gay & lesbian turnout of some kind in Liverpool to protest against this homophobic murder AND honour his tragically-ended life. LET’S ALL BE THERE!

    And I am suspicious of the councillor in Liverpool who thinks that a protest march or demonstration will only stir up more homophobia. Remember Stonewall! You have to really kick up stink and BOTHER people to bring about change.

  6. It will be pure hypocrisy if the religious leaders don’t accept to join the protest. While condemning homosexual acts, the The Roman Catholic Church nevertheless states in its Catechism that homosexual people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”. So, if they believe what they say …

  7. It would be another manifestation of hypocrisy if the religious leaders don’t join the protest. While not approving homosexual acts, the Catholic Church nevertheless states in its catechism that homosexual people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”. So if they
    what they say …

  8. whoops a typo .. if the believe what they say …

  9. Your correspondent, gendy, states that the church in England is becoming increasing irrelevant. I fear gendy is completely wrong here. It is because people still listen to the stupid (Rowan Williams) and downright evil (Michael Nazir-Ali) pronouncements of it’s the homophobic leaders that young men like Michael Causer are still being murdered on our streets. Unless the church, of which I am a priest, starts living the gospel of its founder, it would be better and safer for everybody if it did fade into insignificance – a.s.a.p.

  10. Robert, ex-pat Brit 5 Aug 2008, 1:44pm

    Chris, apYrs, Gendy and others, great that we can all agree on this one! I hope I live long enough to see the disestablishment of state religion and the funding of others by tax payers. Religion is a personal choice, a lifestyle, learned behaviour. I have no problem with what people believe in, but keep one’s beliefs in the home where it belongs, not in the public sector. It should be treated like any other commodity, not one that should be exempt from equality laws and taxation.

  11. MadPriest 5 Aug 2008, 3:33pm

    Actually, the gay community doesn’t do too badly when it comes to hand-outs and the church is given no money by the state and pays exactly the same taxes as anybody else. Perhaps you’re confusing us with our boss, the Queen. I don’t think she pays taxes. But she’s lovely.

  12. I Despise Rowan 5 Aug 2008, 4:06pm

    No chance that Rowan Williams will say anything. He isn’t interested. After all his fine words before he was promoted, the first thing he did as Archbishop of Canterbury was to betray his friend, Jeffrey John, and force him to turn down a bishopric. Since then, Rowan Williams has done everything in his power to boost the homophobes and trample on gay people. He’s a disgusting man and, IMO, some of Michael Causer’s blood is on his hands.

  13. If you want a protest that has some effect, start showing up at Rowan’s public events holding up pictures of victims of homophobic violence. Add some pictures of Rowan with blood photoshopped on his hands to make the point clear. A good grassroots marketing campaign that ties Rowan to the violence and that highlights the blood on his hands is what is needed.

  14. Robert, ex-pat Brit 5 Aug 2008, 5:57pm

    MadPriest….then how do you explain the following:

    Take the “Church of England”. It is supposedly ‘Christian’
    Let’s check the Christian commandments – their Prophet’s instructions:

    A christian – protects the weak, does not oppress others
    gives his surplus to the needy, lives `as the poor’ – not gathering in stores of money/possessions.

    Their Prophet’s specific order to those who would preach Christianity? “Give all your possessions to the poor – and follow me”.

    So, according to the Christan faith:-

    Christians give their surplus funds to feed the poor;
    Christian priests must give all their worldly wealth to the poor.

    Does the Church of England obey these rules?
    Are they genuine followers of Christ? A resounding NO!

    Norman Baker, Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes, once condemned their spending policies:-

    “The Church of England seems to have got its priorities very wrong. It is keener to keep a handful of bishops living in luxury than it is preventing churches from closing. I would be interested to find in scripture a justification for the way in which they are behaving.”

    Well, let’s see: latest annual accounts show the 114 Bishops spent £23.5 million on themselves, and £5.7 million on their ‘palaces’ (bishops’ houses) and cathedrals (bishops’ churches).

    And personal luxuries? Check the record:-
    Last year details were released of an “Appendix IV”, which detailed the disparities in personal costs of the Bishops.
    The cheapest bishop cost £34,745, the most expensive cost £138,713.

    That money, all of it, comes from a TAX-EXEMPT source, i.e. it’s being supplied by the working poor and even the unemployed, the real net taxpayers of Britain, while richer people – like politicians and the corrupt Church of England – pay no net tax at all, i.e. they are net takers from the poor and the middle incomed.

    Those unfair, regressive and pervert tax rates are fixed and agreed by the British “legislature”. The Bishops of the Church of England are voting members of that “legislature” – the House of Lords (Senate).

    The British tax system began in 1945/6, theoretically taxing everyone equally. But the powerful and the wealthy soon started to avoid taxation.

    The Church of England instituted the “Church Commissioners” in 1948
    to evade taxes, i.e. to avoid giving to the poor

    Earlier the `Church of England’ was an active participant in the Slave Trade and actually demanded compensation (paid out of poor people’s taxes) when the evil trade was abolished.

    Also,it violently opposed anti-pedophile legislation during the time of Jack-the-Ripper, and within recent times, until revealed by media attention, the Church of England was Britain’s cruelest and greediest slum-landord.

    It is clear that when they’re allowed to,the Bishops remain secretly selfish, pervert and evil.

    Let’s check the Bishops’ obedience of ‘christian’ rules.

    How much of the Bishops’ time is spent caring for the poor ?

    How many palatial Church of England buildings shelter the poor ?

    How much ill-gotten Church wealth feeds/clothes the poor?

    Answer: NONE!

    As you can see, the bishops of the Church of England are hypocrites, liars and thieves – and malfeasant. All the Bishops are knowingly oppressing the poor.

    Therefore they operate under false pretence and cannot be called ‘Christian’ unless by other hypocrites and liars. Being frauds they are not entitled to any power or any tax ‘privileges’

    They are criminals, members of a tax-avoiding elite, and would be prosecuted and punished in a fair or moral state. Many of them were/are even among the worst criminals of all. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

  15. Lang Thang 5 Aug 2008, 7:40pm

    The Church STOP PUTTING HATE into the young hearts!!!….

  16. Bill Perdue, RainbowRED 5 Aug 2008, 8:47pm

    Robert those were excellent remarks. As were Dais, who struck exactly the right note. A mass demonstration is certainly called for.

    I don’t usually get involved with arguing with ninnies like ‘Hank’ or the MadPriest but when these murders occur it underscores the fact that the murderers are not just the thugs, they’re also the people who abet and empower their violence by creating a social and political atmosphere of hatred and bigotry.

    Superstition, which some people mistakenly refer to by it’s dressed up Sunday-go-to-meeting name, religion, is, after disease, humankinds greatest tragedy. Its institutions, the cults, are instruments of social backwardness, war and defense of the old order.

    Its practioneers are, without exception, parasites, emotional retards and intellectual cripples. Their ‘good deeds’ and “neighborly love” are lost in a sea of bigotry, parasitism, racism and opposition to movements’ for real social change. And yes, that includes mother theresa.

    Two groups are directly and intimately responsible for the murder of Michael Causer. First are the cults, catholic, protestant, muslim, etc., who generate a steady drumbeat of hatred and bigotry. It can be the direct bigotry of the pope, an ayatollah or an Akinola. Or it can be the more subtle knife-in-the-back sort so expertly practiced by Rowan Williams. The anglican cult no longer burns us at the stake, now they’re limited to endlessly repeating the idea that we’re not fit to be treated like other citizens.

    The other groups are Conservative politicians who, like Williams, find it expedient, for now, not to advocate state violence against us but who also say we are not equal to other citizens and who continue, with their siblings in the BNP and the DUP to oppose robust enforcement of anti-discrimination and anti-hate speech laws. Opposition to full civil rights and liberties for the LGBT communities is bigotry, and encourages thugs.

    It’s too bad that the anti-clerical ideas of French Revolution didn’t spread further before they were betrayed by Napoleon. In France, the anti-clerical use of the National Razor had the outstanding effect of permanently ‘calming’ the howling madness of even the most bigoted prelate and had a dazzling deterrent effect as well. That’s what I call lovely.

  17. Robert, ex-pat Brit 6 Aug 2008, 2:46pm

    Bill, well said, I couldn’t have said it better.

  18. “Religion is a personal choice, a lifestyle, learned behaviour.”

    Well, only in the same sense that homosexuality is. In the sense that I choose to go to Church (or not), and you choose whether (or not) to have sex with men. You choose to identify as a gay man, and I choose to identify as an Anglican, and both are contingent, constructed categories. But to claim that the impulses which make you love men and me love God are “a personal choice” is absurd.

    Why the Church should speak out on this particular, very sad, case I’m not quite sure. Do we assume that Mr causer’s murderers were bastions of the Church? In case you hadn’t noticed, the vast majority of the violent homophobia in this country has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with a boozy macho-culture that some might call utterly godless.

  19. rjb
    sexuality is an inbuilt characteristic: there’s a lot of scientific evidence for that. It is of course my choice to express that in my life.

    Your need for a protector is probably just as inherent. What isn’t inherent is your religion – that is learned.

    I can’t be other than a gay man (even if I married)

    You can’t be other than someone who needs someone to lean on (an omnipotent sky-daddy). The difference is that I don’t expec tmy sexuality to give me special rights.

    And why should the church speak out: well it would have been loud and vocal if it had been an ethnic crime; and the crap that came out of the Lambeth conference this week tends to validate even the ostensibly godless.

  20. I don’t think this was even on the news like other stabbings and shootings (of the guns and gangs type) The Church speaks out, well about time too but they must realise they are partially to blame. Only Archbishops Tutu & Sentamu seem to understand!

  21. Cllr Steve Radford 18 Jan 2009, 10:37pm

    Readers should be pleased that the Anglican Church has responded to my critical comments in a very positive way. The dean led a memorial church service with the family of Michael Causer. The service included a clear call to prayer against all hate crimes and the church service at Whiston gave dignified recognition to Michael’s partner.

    I have been in regular contact with Anglican Leaders and the Church is taking a led that clearlky will surprise many of thoise who have a rabid dislike of christianity

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