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Downing St explains why MPs are getting a free vote

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  1. No offense but what does Cardinal Keith O’Brien know about raising a family? The LGBT community has been having kids forever. Why shouldn’t these kids have the same rights protections of heterosexual parents?Marriage is a basic civil right that should be attainable by all people if they choose. For the truth about gay marriage check out our trailer. Produced to educate defuse the controversy it has a way of opening closed minds provides some sanity on the issue:

  2. Robert, ex-pat Brit 25 Mar 2008, 5:50pm

    Charlotte, exactly, they don’t know anything about raising a family, let alone hardship. What they do know about for sure is how to discriminate and pass moral judgements on the rest of us without any authority, they speak for nobody but themselves. These same people actually offer marriage counselling, can you imagine? How on earth can they advise about something they’ve never experienced in the first place?

  3. Peter Piper 25 Mar 2008, 8:37pm

    Most of the coverage has concentrated on the free vote in the commons issue. What is being ignored is the dangerous precedent of church leaders telling MPs how to vote.The RC church has never understood democracy and is seeking to impose its minority view on the majority. It is part of its strategy to have power in the UK. Perhaps total power as it is now seeking to have the Act of Settlement altered to allow a RC to become monarch. Will they then say it is the monarchs duty to follow catholic teaching and veto bills that the church disapproves of?

  4. Ward and George 25 Mar 2008, 10:33pm

    Aloha from the far-away island of Oahu.We have been devoted partners for more than 50 years and take it very ill that some bigoted Scott should find in his wizened heart to explain to all that our love (increasing every year) should be less, ignoble, unworthy, deserving of abuse.These are vile opinions – Might one ask if the inquisition was part of the 2,000 years of moral superiority?Ward and George52 Years togetherand yetStrangers vefore the law

  5. Ward and George 25 Mar 2008, 10:34pm


  6. I am inclined to ask ‘what does the Cardinal know about anything?’The prejudice he fosters in order to earn Vatican Brownie points only advances agendas that fail humanity. There are many scientific advancements that some of us are grateful for, despite opposition from despotic and unchristian, ‘Christan’ clerics who often appear to be on the side of privilege, Establishment and bigotry and all too often have quite a few failings of their own to hide.The continual rantings by these misanthropic Missionaries of Cant, Humbug and Strife, are tolerated within Democratic Societies. Such a shame that such a theatrically entertaining and richly ritualistic Church has nothing intellectually or humanely superior to offer than the common-or-garden prejudices that are peddled for reasons that are stuck in the safe haven of jealously nurtured ignorance.Methinks these unhappy senior RC clerics protest too much.Or maybe those of us outside of their ranks and influence should insist that all serving Members of H.M. Government who are practising members of any religious community (and therefore eligible to cast Parliamentary votes) should accept Office only on the condition that ‘regardless of their professed religion or Spiritual philosophy and/or Faith, their Parliamentary votes will be cast only on humanistic principles second only to the National interest where the two do not conflict, and where they DO conflict, then conscience based on humanistic ideals takes precedence.This should counter the tendency for voting members of one faith to mathematically negate the votes of MPs from opposing uncomplementary faiths.This might even accord with greater popular approval than the current frustratingly undemocratic system our overpaid MPs blindly follow at the moment.To the men in beautiful, extravagant robes who represent their established Faiths, I say “Thank you, but we can do without another Civil War, at least until we’ve finished the current Crusade that Mgr Blair obligingly waged on behalf of his (then) prospective friends”. In the meantime, learn to debate without using fear and blackmail as your time honoured method of persuasion towards your hapless Flock.Politicians have justly earned the right to be the deviant liars and hypocrites we know them to be.We need their skills, as long as we can keep them in check. And if a British citizen prefers to be ruled by the politics of any particular Faith, they know they only have to pack their bags and leave for any Country they favour where the political system is subserviant to religious autocracy.For those of us who prefer the fresh air of a secular society, I hope that medical science will continue to create advances for the betterment of the sick. But not without caution. Reasoned debate based on knowledge and the values we relate to are far more valuable than the historical dogma that creates fear and loathing of advancement.Responsible science policed by Government rather than Church must prevail.And before the Venerable Representatives of Vatican Ignorance fall out of their prams, I invite them to do something positive (for once) and to issue an Edict (or whatever religious policy-makers do… instructing all of their faithful to attend all sports matches and to remonstrate peaceably with their fellow sports fans who make racist and homophobic remarks. This should continue until all expressions of racism and homophobia within sport are consigned to history.Oh well, we can dream, can’t we?????

  7. I’m confused as to why both men in a male couple who have a child through a surrogate have to apply for a parental order.Why would the natural father need to file for a parental order?

  8. The cardinal speaks out and says that the government is “uprooting” 2,000 years of Christian tradition? Well, all I have to say is, how does it feel? Men centuries ago tried to destroy the pagans in all cultures by torture, burning, and spilling blood all over the countryside. 2,000 years you say? How about millenniums of traditions that were just burned to a crisp in those 2,000 years. His outrage at the beautiful thing of a family who just happens to have same sex parents is appalling. There is NOTHING wrong with it. And how DARE he, or anyone else, speak out against love. She is the most powerful force in the universe. You cannot silence her. I think the LGBT and pagan communities are evidence of that.

  9. Peter Piper: your point is appropriate, and it’s also the reason for the ban on the heir to the throne marrying a catholic – there would be split loyalties.It is also interesting that our rights are open to “conscience”, but our obligations aren’t.

  10. Joe Johnston 26 Mar 2008, 4:17pm

    Surely the central point is that MPs should be voting (on all issues – not just this one) according to their consciences and their perceptions of their constituents’ views and not as instructed by either their political party or any outside body like the Catholic Church. But, in any case, it is no use our community complaining when an admittedly oppressive and reactionary organisation like the Catholic Church lobbies for its beliefs – that’s what democracy is about – it was our lobbying that got the advances that we older queers thought we would never see when we were young.

  11. 1 human rights are absolute otherwise they’re rights but privileges2 MPs vote according to their paryy philosophy rather than their consciences: otherwise prejudice is a currency

  12. Strongfemme 26 Mar 2008, 11:33pm

    Fact … Scientists believe, stem cells offer the possibility of a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat everything from Motor Neuron, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, Multiple Sclerosis Dementia Disease!…Fact … Brown’s facing a revolt by Catholic Labour MPs Ruth Kelly, Des Browne and Paul Murphy over flagship bill to allow embryo research! …Hmmm — Do we detect a certain tone? accept the resignations Mr Brown.Fact … The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms.Fact … Catholic bishop, has accused the gay community of leading a “conspiracy” against Christianity by allying itself with Holocaust survivors in order to gain persecuted status.Fact … “Hidden from History ” – an estimated 100,000 homosexuals were arrested marked with the pink triangle! …”We will never know how many ended up in the concentration camps as records are incomplete”Fact … The Roman Catholic Church imposses its own brand of Education!

  13. Dominick J. 27 Mar 2008, 3:20am

    The Catholic church and all fundamentlast grops are big bunch of lunatics and liars. Christianity is 6000 years old and nothing as the Catholic or fundamentlist shitforbrains would have you to believe.Here read it:I cam across this site during a Bible lesson at our Progressive UCC church.

  14. Robert, ex-pat Brit 27 Mar 2008, 1:25pm

    Dominick, creationists actually believe that the world is only 6,000 years old to concur with the beginnings of christianity. Some of them do concede that 6,000 years could mean 6 million or billion since NOBODY really knows the length of a day let alone a year or a millenium. Its a neat little trick they use when they explain the 6,000 figure, dismissing all scientific proof to the contrary.

  15. Dominick J. 27 Mar 2008, 6:04pm

    Bob I don’t think it’s a neat little trick at all. Whether were talking about Chritianity starting from 2000 years ago or 6000 years ago. When doing a bible study one never interjects creationism, we know it exists and vise versa. It’s only the extremist Fundamentalist who would argue that evolution didn’t happen. I also don’t belive that the link I provided was written by a Creationist either. The author wasn’t stating that the earth was 6000 years old but that Christianity is.

  16. Rana Ardhita 18 Apr 2008, 3:23am

    homosexuals, heterosexuals… i think the most important thing is: can you give the best for your children? Its not about the money, but also the mentality and attitude

  17. just reread my offereing:NOT” 1 human rights are absolute otherwise they’re rights but privileges”BUT” 1 human rights are absolute otherwise they’re NOT rights but privileges”

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