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Comment: Is Clinton really any different to Obama?

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  1. Bill Perdue 22 Mar 2008, 9:22am

    The question should be about the differences between Clinton, McCain and Obama. They amount to little more than that Clinton and McCain are Bush Stout and Obama is Bush Lite. Both parties joined to trash our employment antidiscrimination and hate crime bills. Both refused to repeal the Clintons’ anti same sex marriages law, DOMA and DADT, the law that encourages and codifies military bigotry. For their part the Democrats did it so the Republicans couldn’t claim they were GLBT friendly or use our agenda as a ‘wedge’ issue. Clinton and Obama didn’t offer a hint of protest when all that was going on. Like Clinton and McCain, Obama arrogantly and unashamedly panders to gay bashing christian bigots. However Obama’s gay basher bedfellows are chump change compared to Hillary’s. Her admirers include her Senatorial bible class littermates Santorum of Pennsylvania and Brownback of Kansas. Pat Robertson, the bible fascist, admires her ‘tacking to the right’ and Faux News owner Rupert Murdoch gave her a $100,000 ‘donation’ for services rendered. McCain’s growing menagerie of christian bigot endorsers is just as bad. All three candidates support NAFTA while most Central American and North American trade union, environmental and anti-poverty organizations oppose these ‘free’ trade agreements because they’re crafted to cut wages, bust unions and has led to a series of environmental disasters. Obama, Clinton and McCain have to support NAFTA to ‘earn’ their share of corporate campaign contributions. In spite of all their hype about the war one thing remains crystal clear, neither Obama, Clinton or McCain can or will end the war. A victory by the Iraqis will end it, just like the war in Vietnam was ended. Obama, in an especially witless policy statement said he would attack Pakistan, a nation with it own nuclear arsenal. Obama and Clinton say they won’t end the war until 2013 at the earliest, and cowboy McCain wants to fight on for a century or two. Clinton, McCain and Obama are handpuppets for the pharmaceutical and insurance industries. Don’t get sick if one of them wins. The National Nurses Organizing Committee, AFL-CIO condemns Obama, saying “Obama has chosen to give more customers and more public funds to the for-profit insurance corporations. It’s an expensive gift and one that allows them to continue meddling in medical decision-making while raking in obscene blood-money profits.” They say the same about Clinton and McCain. The problem is that if enough people are stupid and vote for one of them they might win. That would be as disastrous as when Clinton or Bush2 won. With Democrats like these who needs Republicans. A Republican candidate is a loud-mouthed baboon in a people suit with a theocratic christian attached at the hip. A Democratic candidate is a Republican in drag.

  2. Robert, ex-pat Brit 22 Mar 2008, 1:48pm

    Bill, I for one will vote for none of them, they haven’t yet earned mine, let alone respect. Voting for either just to get the current regime out of office doesn’t work for me any more, little will change whoever wins. As far as we’re concerned, forget about it, the bottom rung on the ladder, business as usual. Who needs any of them?

  3. Barack Obama: What You REALLY Need To Know Before You Vote! All the obama supporters are defending him staying at the church, ALL the black ministers are defending Wrights preaching, that simply tells ALL Americans they also support his feelings of anti- America and white hatred that the church preaches. No one says Obama cant attend the church for 20 years, or raise his daughters to be racist like his wife, what we ARE SAYING is that HE CANNOT REPRESENT ALL OF AMERCIA AS U.S. PRESIDENT! Rev Wright was and most likely still is a paid advisor on Obamas campaign??? Obama and David Axelrod insisted that Obama be the black candidate early in SC when they tried to spin it on Bill Clinton, it worked for the biased tabloid media like CNN cronies, since then, we ALL have come to realize Obama has problems with the truth and we learned this week for sure where his faith and true beliefs are, its obvious THERES ABSOLUTLY NO CHANGE WITH OBAMA, HE WILL DRAG U.S. BACK TO THE 60’S RACIAL DIVIDE at a time our country needs to unite. He cannot do that, no matter how many black news casts tell you he canOBAMA STANDS BEHIND SPIRITAL ADVISOR WRIGHT! “Wright is like an uncle you love and respect” As imperfect as he may be, he has been family to me for so many years, I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community, said Obama. The man who believes and preaches the U.S. government formulated the HIV AIDS virus to commit genocide against blacks also preaches “We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye on 9/11. This is the same man Obama had as advisor on his Presidential staff until this week. Rather than break ties with his demagogic, anti-American pastor, Obama used a speech on the non-back race to excuse his behavior and sweep the controversy under the rug. Passing the buck. Obama supposedly condemning Wright’s shocking verbal assaults against the U.S and White Americans, but April last year; Obama was the first and quickest to demand Imus’ ouster for making a racially insensitive remarks. His opinions and issues change with the weather, he is too UNSTABLE and proven he cannot make a decision or stay with one. Next we have ALL corrupt campaign financers, business and personal friends as indicted Rezko, former Dallas Mayor Hill, Rep. Rick Renzi and Mr. Auchi, leading supplier of arms to Saddam’s regime convicted for corruption in France, the same British-Iraqi billionaire lent millions and millions of dollars to Obama all coming out of the woodwork. ALL this from the half black ex-Muslim who touts change and claims to be a uniter of all people? Proof he is just another in-experienced Washington politician that the media has like CNN has given a free pass at the great risk of our great country! There will soon be allot more video of Rev Wright and Obama coming, all this has proven without doubt if he is the nominee the democrat voters he cannot win the general election, just the black vote will not do it. Its time for Obama to leave this race and take his not so proud of America racist wife, spiritual advisor and anti white church with him..

  4. Andrei Freeman 22 Mar 2008, 5:54pm

    You write:What I saw was dejected, depressed and disorganized Clinton supporters wandering aimlessly and being eaten alive by Obama supporters. In Washington state, it was virtually a forgone conclusion that Obama would win in the caucuses, but the reality of what that meant was nearly shocking. Obama people were blockading the doors with bodies, shoving Obama sign-up sheets at every person who walked in—without explaining what the sheets were. Many people signed them thinking they were the voting registers and then ended up confused and bewildered when they found out they had not signed in properly.—–I have to admit I’m not entirely sure what state of Washington you caucused in because it wasn’t the same state of Washington that I caucused in.The forms that were passed around was to list that you were at the caucus and they clearly had a space to indicate where you stood: Clinton, Obama, or Undecided. If these papers will pre-filled out with a candidate’s name; this is frankly against the process of caucus and should be reported.Further, the idea that doors were blocked based on who was being supported is madness. I watched die-hard Clinton and die-hard Obama supporters go out of their way to make sure that everyone knew what the rules were and had a clear chance to speak their voice. This included the undecided folk of which I was one. If anyone was going to be pressured one way or another it would have been me. I even spoke during candidate support concerning why I was undecided and still was unpressured.Yes, Washington entered the caucus with a clear favourtism towards Obama. But there was no direct pressuring seen. Merely the voices of support for each candidate or lack thereof. If you feel that the Obama supporters ‘kidnapped’ your district, then making a ‘blog post’ about it, is merely public manipulation of the same level. This MUST be reported to your local district’s caucus committee.There are investigations going on throughout this country based on who ‘bucked the system’… Complaining about it without going thru the people who regulate it is merely open rhetoric.These are SERIOUS accusations that may need to come before a court of Law. Are you prepared to defend these comments in a court of Law? Or are you merely trying to live up to ‘Well they did it to me, so I’ll act just like them.”I feel badly that I have to react so strongly here. You raise some wonderful issues about why I entered the caucus as undecided myself. But your accusations coupled with your lack of impetus to deal with those accusations in a realistic manner; just make you sound like as much of a Clinton Stooge as the Obama Stooges you point a finger at.As a result.. all it does is reduce the credibility of everything else you wrote.I strongly recommend you pursue these accusations in the proper manner and post on the results of that.I will add that since that caucus I have put my support in Obama’s campaign. On one hand I suppose that makes me no longer unbiased. But I feel strongly about this for one reason.I want the candidate that I feel best serves the issues I care about and the one I feel will best accomplish the things I support.I do not want to ‘pick sides’ and throw derision.Clearly: If Obama supporters invalidated the fair process of caucus in Washington state; I don’t want them supporting my candidate and personally, I think they should be in Jail for subverting the democratic process.I don’t want to have to pick a candidate based on which one has less social ingrates performing acts of election vandalism.Don’t be part of the problem. Be part of the solution. Somebody does something wrong… you work to fix it.

  5. Barack Obama will make an excellent president.No more Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton!!!We need a new generation of leader and Barack Obama is a once in a time leader.We are stronger together and weaker apart.One heart, one vote for Barack.

  6. Er, hello people. All these comments on American politics on a British gay site? Please, lets change the topic. And while I’m sure its absolutely fascinating you all picking the finer points of a race that is of only fleeting interest to most of us here, this is a British *GAY* site, and to be honest, we just don’t really care. Why don’t you yanks take it to a US political site, eh? It’s not really of any relevance here…

  7. I agree. American politics is of no interest to us and I don’t think it appropriate for such a debate to take place here.

  8. Bill Perdue 23 Mar 2008, 1:21am

    Er, Keith, why don’t you take you whine up with the editors of pinknews. Every week they carry dozens of stories about events around the world. They certainly don’t share your narrow minded insularity about the international connectivity of GLBT communities and our struggles. Unlike you and other reactionaries most of us believe that the GLBT movement is international at its core and that the concerns of our communities around the world are vital to all of us. For example, it was the international web of gay news sites that alerted the global GLBT movement to the racist and homophobic attempts of the Home Office to deport Mehdi Kazemi and others to certain torture and death. Thanks to the alerts of pinknews and the web of pro asylum activists, notably Omar Kuddus, our international movement developed the leverage to force the racist, i.e. islamophobic and homophobic bureaucrats in the Home Office and their political superiors to back down, at least temporarily. Hopefully the political initiatives of Labour MEP ‘s and others in the socialist bloc in the EU parliament can make his reprieve permanent and create a welcoming and evenhanded policy by the EU for refugees from bigot states like Iran. When you say “we just don’t really care” I suspect you’re only exposing your own boneheaded ignorance and that it’s limited to yourself and a few other right wing reactionaries, who, after your leading remakes, we’ll soon be hearing from.

  9. Sister Mary Clarence 23 Mar 2008, 8:36am

    Bill, Bill, Bill, our moonshine swilling, sister marrying little friend. This particular story and the resulting comments serve to highlight how the situation with race and sexual orientation in this county is polls apart from the situation in the States. We have all major parties bending over backwards to show that they endorse equality and diversity. Irrespective of whether they embrace it to the core, they all want to get the message to voters that equality is key to their manifestos. Clearly very different to the reports we get about the political situation in the States.Similarly, religion carries increasingly little power in this country. Yes, we have the bishops in the House of Lords and members of both Houses trot out to church every Sunday and go through the motions, but the days when the Church wielded any great power are (thankfully) long gone. Again a very different story to the States where any day now the Inquisition will be up and running and I understand denial of evolution seems to be the order of the day.However much you try to assimilate into your great big common cause, it doesn’t change the fact that we are living in very different worlds. Yes, we are struggling for equality, but this country seems to be a long way further down that road than yours is, and so the constant similarities you try to draw between ourselves and you are woefully inaccurate.Personally it has always been a source of annoyance that although we are way ahead of you in the equality race, you never seem to want to take any advice from us about how we have accomplished so much, but instead would rather hurl your pearls of wisdom about us all being bad homosexuals who are letting the side down.I think that David and Keith feel that perhaps as there is so little common ground in relation to the presidential elections and the ensuing electioneering that is taking place over there, that perhaps other stories more pertinent to gay people in Britain could be focused on. I have to say I agree. You need to sort out you own issues over there, because you’ve made it very clear on numerous occasions that advice and support from us is unwelcome.In relation to Mehdi Kazemi, I’m not really sure what you input into this issue really was. Immigration and asylum in this country is a matter for the British government, I don’t really know how much weight the Home Secretary would have given your representations personally. We none of us know the details of Mehdi’s original asylum application, and its all too easy for you to start spouting your allegations of racism, homophobia and the ever favourite islamophobia.And of course your finally paragraph was uncharacteristically intuitive, I will always respond when you start slagging others off on here for expressing views they are entirely entitled to have.You’re all heading back to the dark ages over there because the extent of your reasoned argument and debating skills is to use terms like, ‘exposing your own boneheaded ignorance’. Your belligerence and stupidity means those dark ages will draw ever more closer.

  10. Bill, you’ve been shown to be a liar and an idiot on so many occasions we’re losing count.Still waiting for you to justify your allegation against me. But we all know you can’t as you’re a liar. Oh, and people will have read our exchanges.As always, your posts fail to say anything of substance, but merely rant about “Islamophobia”, right wing reactionaries, evil colonialists, the beastly English, conservatives, Israel, Christianity in general and horrible Catholics in particular and whatever else pops into that fetid brain of yours while masquerading as a political thought.Fact is Bill, most people in the UK don’t give a damn about your sexuality just so long as you behave in a perfectly reaonable way. If, however, you play the perpetual whiney victim, ram it down people’s throats and top it off with calls for a worldwide Marxist revolution, you’ll be called up on your stupidity. It’s what we do here in the UK.Have you considered that people think you’re a total loser and despise you, not because you’re gay, but because you are a total loser with a grasp of world politics and history that would shame a 3 year old?

  11. Bill, shut up you prat.

  12. William - Dublin 23 Mar 2008, 3:43pm

    Ah, Bill, another classic. Just because Keith doesn’t give a hoot about you and your Bolshevik crap, you have to have another of your little rants and call him a “right wing reactionary”. Poor stupid little Billy.Keith is right. We just don’t really care that much about your politics. You live in a country where the constitution can be changed by the whim of a corrupt government, you have an appalling human rights records, and your educational system has produced a nation of people who couldn’t tell the difference between Austria and Australia. And all the more tiresome this whole when we have people ranting things like Julie’s “One heart, one vote for Barack.” For f*ck sake, get a life woman.And Bill, don’t come in here calling other people a racist, you hypocrite. You have repeatedly demonstrated your own ignorant talents in that department when you viciously attacked people from England and Gibraltar (and other countries) based only on your warped and misinformed view of the world. The only thing worse than a racist, is a racist that denies what they are… just like you Billy.Now, back to the bottle Billy and have another swig of confidence, like a good little inbred.

  13. David King 23 Mar 2008, 3:57pm

    @ Bill Perdue:The “.co.uk” in the name of this website means its a British site. If you don’t like that, I’m sure there are loads of “.com” American sites that would love to listen to you and your fellow country men horse-trade insults about a political race that’s of minor interest to us here in Europe. Oh, and I’m sure this is quite a shock to you all in the USA:- but you are not the centre of our world, and we couldn’t care less about a political system, like yours, that is light years behind ours in the EU with regards to human rights and democracy.It seems a lot of people on this site don’t care much for you or your offensive point of view, Bill. And from reading your insulting comments, I can begin to see why.

  14. David King 23 Mar 2008, 3:58pm

    @ William:Well said.

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