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Two EU cities refuse to sign gay rights appeal

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  1. Robert, ex-pat Brit 20 Mar 2008, 7:48pm

    Tallin, the culture capital of 2011? What a joke and just how offensive is that when it can’t even enjoin other member states on affirming freedom of assembly for LGBT people in their own country? Places like that should be boycotted including Latvia, Poland and Russia. Just how backward are these countries? They just don’t get it, do they?

  2. In time, gay rights in the east of Europe will advance, bit by bit, as they did in the UK. When you say that these countries are backward, are you implying that their citizens are stupid? I ask this question,as that was my interpretation of what you had written. This is almost as bad as insulting religion, because everyone has the chance of learning to deal with diversity, regardless of their nationality or their religion. In time, the east will advance as they become increasingly interconnected with the world around them. It’ll take time, but they’ll get there – just as we did.

  3. Robert, ex-pat Brit 21 Mar 2008, 3:50pm

    David, no, what I’m implying is that their government is backward, not necessarily its people, though there are of course a lot of “stupid” people in every society. Religion on the other hand deserves insults when you look at centuries of insulting us which continues to this day, some of which can result in fatal outcomes in some societies. It is compounded when religious leaders do or say nothing to counter extremist views within their own flocks. I strongly believe in the old addage, silence gives consent.

  4. Religion does not deserve to be insulted! I once communicated with Peter Tatchell when I offered to get involved, and he offered the following advice, and I quote: “do not attack religion.”Now why does he say this? Well, I don’t know, but I can guess why. My guesses are:1. You insult religion, and you insult the very thing that defines literally millions of people on this planet – their ethos and identities;2. By copying the tactics of the extremists and the religious leaders and hurling insults back, we are simply lowering ourselves to their level – dignity, dignity, dignity!;3. Religion has given us some of the most wonderful architecture, music and art over the centuries. Who can listen to Brahms’ Requiem or Mozarts Mass and not be overcome by emotion? And who can’t be absolutely amazed at wonderful places like St Paul’s or Ely Cathedral, or some of the wonderful grand mosques in Turkey and the Middle East?This is not some kind of dry intellectual debate; we are talking here about people and what drives and motivates them. Gay rights have advanced in Europe (well, most of it anyway) as a result of gay rights activists and campaigners building bridges with the world about them. Chucking insults simply displays a wilful ignorance and stupidity and a profound lack of respect for people who are not like us.The real debate is not whether or not religion is right or wrong, or whether or not it has the high moral ground. The real debate is this: does the religious institution have the right to impose its values upon those who don’t agree with them? The answer is, quite simply, No! That is what the debate is actually about.

  5. “Don’t attack religion!” It doesn’t who gives this advice, it is NOT to be followed. Religion will only die out, if it is killed off, and for it to be killed off it HAS to be attacked. People who are religious, whose heads are fully of the woolly nonsense, will only ditch it, if they are absolutely shaken, so to speak. It takes quite a jolt for people to realize that each and every one of the world’s religions is nothing but total humbug, superstitious nonsense. Yes, wonderful artistic works have been created in the name of religion but that does not mean that religion should be excused. Humanity must learn to create great things and do good without doing it for the reward of a place in that non-existent paradise called “heaven”!Attack religion and everyone who is religious as often as you possibly can! Wake the world up! Secularize, secularize, secularize! Offer people the morality of Humanism.What is Humanism? Basically, the belief that we know of no form of life more intelligent than ourselves and we have a duty to use our intelligence rationally and for the good of humanity.

  6. Sorry about typos in my message below. I meant to say “It doesn’t matter who gives the advice” that religion should not be attacked. Ignore it! Religion is an evil and MUST be attacked. People whose heads are full of this woolly nonsense are actually crying out for someone to wake them up!

  7. William - Dublin 21 Mar 2008, 7:38pm

    David S, I think you are forgetting that religion has also stifled a lot of advances in humanity. It has, and still is, suppressing science and some of the greatest minds to have lived.While I agree that it is wrong to suppress the beliefs of the individual, or insult the beliefs of anyone, there is nothing wrong with questioning organised religion… religion is not about facts or advancing mankind, it is ultimately about addressing one’s fear of death, ensuring power of the few, and making people feel validated in their choices.

  8. I agree, Dai. But insulting the beliefs of others is not the way to do it.

  9. And I agree with you too William. Take the recent comments by a Catholic bishop about stem cell research. I need to find outmore abou this, but it is worth noting that he was not elected by the people. The Government is, hence they can legitimately legislate with respect to such matters.

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