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Turks reject gays or atheists as neighbours

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  1. William - Dublin 8 Feb 2008, 4:04pm

    And still the Turks think they’re ready for EU membership. Lets not repeat the mistakes of Poland, there they said that they had “different values from the other EU states” AFTER they joined the EU…. if they don’t like the values, don’t buy the membership.

  2. OMAR KUDDUS 8 Feb 2008, 4:58pm

    Turkey calls itself a multi cultural society with both western and Eastern views and values.A prime example of where its true beliefs and stance stands.If Turkey ever wants to join the EU as it has desperately shown that it does, how does it expect to be recognised, when its own stance on Human rights is despicable.Turkey in its latest stance as shown that it is no better than Poland and if accepted into the EU will also want to pick and chose what laws and human rights it want to accept and adopt into its countries laws.The Republic of Turkey is a Eurasian country to delineate the border between Asia and Europe, thereby making Turkey transcontinental. Because of its strategic location astride two continents, Turkey’s culture has a unique blend of Eastern and Western tradition. Since its foundation as a republic in 1923, Turkey has developed a strong tradition of secularism. Turkey is a founding member of the United Nations (1945), the OECD (1961), the OSCE (1973) and the G20 industrial nations (1999).In line with its traditional Western orientation, relations with Europe have always been a central part of Turkish foreign policy. Turkey became a member of the Council of Europe in 1949, applied for associate membership of the EEC (predecessor of the EU) in 1959 and became an associate member in 1963. After decades of political negotiations, Turkey applied for full membership of the EEC in 1987, became an associate member of the Western European Union in 1992, reached a Customs Union agreement with the EU in 1995 and has officially begun formal accession negotiations with the EU on October 3, 2005.It is believed that the accession process will take at least 15 years due to Turkey’s size and the depth of disagreements over certain issues.Nominally, 99.8% of the Turkish population is Muslim, The mainstream Hanafite school of Sunni Islam is largely organized by the state, through the Diyanet İşleri Başkanlığı (Religious Affairs Directorate), which controls all mosques and Muslim clerics. The remainder of the population belongs to other faiths, particularly Christian denominations (Greek Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic, Syriac Orthodox), Judaism, and Yezidism.This perhaps explains why Lambada Istambul has been having its problems of acceptance.However if Turkey genuinely wants to join the EU and be part of the Union, it has to accept (like other new members) that it cannot discriminate or pick and chose which laws and amendments it wants to adopt and instigate into law.It has to show that a conscious effort to make all its citizens wishes and lifestyles are adopted into its constitution, and that discrimination is not acceptable, for whatever reason and moral code.Again one finds that religion is trying to govern politics and have an adverse effect on the country and its citizens.Turkey is also the first stop for a large percentage of Iranian, Iraqi, Afghani, Syrian and Arab homosexual refugees who are fleeing persecution for their sexuality, and it is worrying that the main LGBT organisation is having restrictions put upon it, for these individuals, along with local Turkish LGBTs shall suffer in the long run.Unfortunately, Turkey is the first nation that homosexuals fleeing from Arab states due to their persecution, torture, harassment and execution find themselves, being the gateway to Europe.The Home office regularly argues that Asylum seekers should ask for sanctuary there, but those is a prime example that shows Turkeys stance on Homosexuality.They neither aid or help or give financial support to those fleeing from barbaric regimes.Turkey in its latest stance as shown that it is no better than Poland and if accepted into the EU will also want to pick and chose what laws and human rights it want to accept and adopt into its countries laws.Pressure needs to be put on our respective governments to show disapproval and that such actions would violate basic human rights and thus also make Turkey unacceptable to join the EU, especially as The Republic of Turkey was one of the first nations to ratify the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in April 1949. It has also signed the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) in 1954 and as such the Turkish Constitution guarantees the fundamental human rights of all Turkish citizens and affirms the secular and democratic nature of the Turkish republic. As a party to the ECHR, decisions of the European Court of Human Rights are legally binding in Turkey. Turkey has also ratified the 1987 European Convention for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Punishment in 1988. Nevertheless, its practical human rights record has long continued to attract scrutiny, both internally and externally. As a country currently in accession negotiations with the European Union, Turkey is obliged to ensure consistency of its laws with the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, but there are still concerns raised by certain NGOs and the EU, especially with regards to the freedom of expression and the situation of ethnic minorities.

  3. Robert, ex-pat Brit 8 Feb 2008, 6:12pm

    Omar, its about time the entire LGBTQ community in Europe pushed for a ban on current member states in violation of community law regarding equality and new applicants should not be allowed to join unless they commit to the rule of law governing the EU, NO exceptions. They can’t play by the rules, so let them remain outcasts, let them rot. Another thing, we should boycott travel to any country where we’re not wanted.

  4. After what I experienced on my trip to Turkey I can’t believe the country would EVER be considered for admission into the European Union.I have read a lot about the EU considering Turkey for membership. I have read a number of official reasons why their admission would be challenged; everything from cultural issues to women’s rights issues. What I find astonishing and disgusting is that I have never read one word about a multi-faceted issue that I think should immediately bar Turkey from joining the EU. The culture, tradition and ritual of torturing and psychologically, physically and sexually abusing Turkish boys through barbaric and public circumcision rituals.In 1984 I was touring Turkey. I was visiting a beautiful village outside of Ankara. There was a festival going on with people dressed up and walking in an informal procession toward the village center. Being an atypical American tourist who actually likes to immerse myself in the cultures of the countries I visits, I followed the procession. I noticed that boys in colorful costumes and hats were being carried on men’s shoulders so I assumed it was some father/son festival. When we got to the destination I started to realize what was going on as I saw little boys crying, walking around bow legged in obvious agony and being congratulated with praise and money from adults. I will NEVER EVER forget seeing a boy of about 5 to 7 years old having his pants pulled down and then being held by the arms from behind in such away that it held his legs apart while wide eyed onlookers watched, smiled and giggled. Then a man started cutting off his foreskin as he SCREAMED and cried and begged him to stop. There were MANY boys in that village that day being subjected to this TORTURE in a public spectacle that LITERALLY made me sick. I was so disturbed by this experience that I had serious heart palpitations and panic attacks (I was only 18 years old). I cut my tour short and returned to Germany where I had to be medicated for anxiety and depression. Even when I got back to the States I had a lot of trouble sleeping and had flashbacks that put me into therapy. I don’t think ANYTHING has ever affected me so strongly and deeply. I’m still not over it.I have always been a vocal opponent of involuntary infant circumcision unless it was medically necessary; especially considering most are done with NO anesthesia. I am disgusted that my country does it to over a million infant boys a year; just over 80% of the male population. After seeing this procedure in person I became even more vocal. I believe everyone should have a right to be circumcised if THEY choose but, like abortion, it should be a choice that the person and only the person should make for himself. I think it is even more barbaric to do it to boys who are 5 to 10 years old. before deciding if this practice fits in to the EU’s human rights charter. Before deciding if this practice fits into the EU’s human rights charter and should be a consideration in Turkey’s bid to join the EU, I believe EVERY person in the Union should have to watch a video of the “ritual” torture that I have come to learn is perpetrated on MOST Turkish boys. I just can’t imagine anyone in Europe ignoring this if anything like it were being done to girls.I would love to hear from some Europeans about this. Are most people in Europe aware of this barbaric custom? Why is little to nothing said about it? Is there any way to bring more attention to this barbarism to the EU and the people who are determining the problems Turkey must resolve before becoming an EU member?Whew, I’m having heart palpitations just reliving that nightmare. I’m gonna have to take a Xanax!

  5. Robert, ex-pat Brit 9 Feb 2008, 1:32pm

    Zeke, I for one am very familiar with this primitive, barbaric practice. Circumcision of any kind originated in the abrahamic religions. It has no other significance than a religious covenant with a supposedly divine entity. As for the medical reasons, that is arguably an exception, but they are few and far between. The U.S. is the only western country (aside from Israel)where this practice is virtually a rite of passage albeit performed under local anesthesia. The medical profession is coming around to the opinion that circumcision is really unnecessary in this day and age of improved health care and serves no purpose. Judaism and Islam are the only two religious denominations that I know of that practice this disgusting ritual. I’ve attended several Jewish “bris” ceremonies over the past 20 years and it appalls me that the parents and guests smile and clap and indulge in all manner of food and drink when this primitive act is performed. I also find it hypocritical of western societies who deplore genital mutilation (forced circumcision of females in third world nations) while supporting institutional circumcision of males in the west. Surely this is a doublestandard. Turkey should NOT be permitted to join the EU. It is bad enough that Poland and other eastern block countries are members, but until Turkey cleans up its act and its myriad violations of human rights, the EU should deny entry.

  6. Robert, you might want to check your medical journals.Circumcisions, even those performed in hospitals are seldomly done with local anesthesia. In fact in many many hospitals topical anesthesia (which is virually useless anyway) isn’t even used. Only RECENTLY have pediatric schools that teach circumcision started teaching anesthesia techniques but not even all of them teach anesthesia techniques. The ONLY local anesthesia technique involves making about 5 injections of lidocaine into the baby’s penis. Anyone who has ever had a Lidocaine shot know how excruciating they can be. They BURN like fire to the point of bringing tears to your eyes.As for brises, virtually none of them are carried out with anesthesia. A anteseptic (which causes even more pain when it gets into an open wound) is usually applies but not an anesthetic. The pain is supposed to be a necessary part of the fun.It astonishes me that people just accept this barbaric practice as OK. It amazes me how much barbarism is accepted, even against INFANTS, as long as they have a Y chromosome.There is NOTHING on the human body (female OR male) that isn’t important and needed for full and proper functioning. Evolution has long since weeded out any unnecessary and problematic parts.I am so ashamed of my country for being so backwards and ignorant on this issue. Is it any wonder why people in this country support torturing adult prisoners when they support torturing their own babies?

  7. Robert, ex-pat Brit 10 Feb 2008, 1:39pm

    Zeke, thank you. I’ve heard that in the U.S. older men who’ve had it done, arguably for medical reasons, experienced excruciating pain after the procedure that lasts for days and actually takes several weeks to heal. At one time it was argued among medical professional that male circumcision was a deterrent against lower levels of uterine cancer in women, though that has since become a moot point. I was unaware that the type of anaesthesia provided isn’t adequate. The foreskin is there for a purpose. Circumcision is so primitive it should be banned in civilised societies. I can only imagine the pyschological harm this can do to a young baby. Its an appalling practice. The W.H.O. should condemn it.

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