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Ambassador complains to Vatican about election statement

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  1. OMAR KUDDUS 1 Feb 2008, 7:44pm

    Here we go again, religion trying to stamp its morality and ethics on governments and the people again.When are they going to realise that they have lost their strong hold and have no more influence on the state anymore. Bravo for the Spanish government who, earlier this month said it would not accept “moral guardianship” from anyone. Deputy Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega was totally correct in saying that the Church could no longer impose its morality on the country, clearly defending his government’s policies, saying they were supported by the “immense majority” of the Spanish population and that everyone had rights in Spain, whether they belonged to a religion or not.Its time other nations followed suit and made religious institutions realise that we live in a multi faith society and that no religion can influence policies or governments that are elected by the people from free choice.

  2. All the socialists have to do is remind the Spanish people of the horrors inflicted on Spain when the Church had a heavy hand in the government.There are HUNDREDS of years worth of examples to choose from. From the Inquisition to Francisco Franco, Spain ALWAYS suffers under the yoke of the Vatican.Only a fool would let the Church get back into the governing business after so many visible examples of how disasterous such conflations can and will be.I guess we’ll see just how many Spanish fools there are come election day.Here in America we’ve had 30 years (especially the last seven years) of unbelievably foolish voters.

  3. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Feb 2008, 8:14pm

    Omar, I applaud Spain and its government. No British prime minister from either party would ever say anything like that to the established church. They’re afraid of it and have no guts to do it, Brown or Cameron alike. Its why Spain went way past the UK and approved full marriage equality, and remember, the Catholic church in Spain is far more powerful and meddlesome than the Church of England. Here here for Zapatero and his government and for the Spanish people!

  4. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Feb 2008, 8:18pm

    Zeke, I suspect there will be far less Spanish fools than to be found in the US and to a lesser extend the UK for that matter. The reason why we’ve had a dumbing down of the electorate in America is the religion factor that plays a pivotal role in any contender’s presidential run. The US has the highest number of adherents and regular worshippers than any other western country. No American politican can run unless he or she states an adherence to a religious belief, plus they have to be married! Can you imagine an atheist or unitarian running? NOT going to happen.

  5. Bill Perdue 2 Feb 2008, 3:35am

    Robert, Zeke. It’s true that many voters in the US got suckered in by various Republican and Democratic appeals to bigotry but they have no real alternative. Election laws in the US are profoundly anti-democratic and restrictive. The result it the two party systems and the result of that is that in many elections a plurality REFUSES to vote. Politicians dismiss them as lazy but in truth they’re so revolted with the twin party shell game that they opt out of the process. Both parties in the US are right centrist and both support imperial military adventures like Vietnam and Iraq. They united to pass NAFTA and other union busting laws, they give lip service to opposing bigotry and they’re both bought and paid for by the rich. Since Lincolns murder people in the US have turned a distrustful eye on the twin parties and politics in general. They’re rightly disgusted by being offered one dismal ‘lesser evil’ after another. They don’t buy into it and neither should we. Zeke, is there any news on the gay bashing conservative petition in Florida opposing same sex marriage? Did the scumwads get enough signatures collecting signatures during the primaries?

  6. OMAR KUDDUS 2 Feb 2008, 12:26pm

    Robert, as I said, Religion has no part in politics and it should be left to those who are democratically elected to their position by its citizens.Spain knows this, especially due to the examples in its history that have had atrocities committed in the name of religion.It is however disturbing that people around the world, still vote not for policies but the morality and ethics backed by religion.A clear example being the posting in regards to Jamaica, where Homophobia is rife.You are correct that in Britain, the government still is influenced, by religious institutions and pander to them either for ethics or oil reserves, but have to say that in recent times, there has been a slow shift away, and minor victories won that go against religious principals.It will take time, as everything in politics does, but can see a day, not in too far the distant future, when the elected pander only to its citizens and their best interests and wishes, and not religious authorities.

  7. Robert, ex-pat Brit 2 Feb 2008, 1:54pm

    Omar, yes, we are slowly moving away from religious pandering, but not nearly as fast as Spain did. To me, Spain is a miracle, who would have thought it would have confronted the mighty powerful RC church and won? Truly miraculous! I’m so proud of that country and what it stands for. Hopefully, we’ll get there too one day!

  8. You are correct that in Britain, the government still is influenced, by religious institutions and pander to them either for ethics or oil reserves, but have to say that in recent times, there has been a slow shift away, and minor victories won that go against religious principals.It will take time, as everything in politics does, but can see a day, not in too far the distant future.i am a gay and my profile is on gaysinglehunt.com where i look for gay partner

  9. Bill, I’m sorry to not answer your question earlier but I’ve been out hitting the pavement trying to keep the amendment off the ballot.We lost the first round. The State certified the amendment so it will be on the Florida ballot in November.We have a lot of work to do. It will be a difficult and divisive year in Florida trying to beat back the pitchfork and torch wielding bigots who are determined to attack families like mine and thousands of others.We do have a HUGE coalition put together to fight this divisive and hateful attack. Thankfully it now takes a super majority of 60% to pass an amendment in Florida.Thanks for keeping us in your thoughts.

  10. Robert, ex-pat Brit 4 Feb 2008, 1:17pm

    Bravo Spain! Well done! If only our own UK ambassador to the Vatican would have the guts and do the same. Spain is definitely the trail blazer on equality in Europe. What a country!Check out the link below on what’s happening in Spanish society. We in the UK have a lot to learn and a lot further to go.

  11. Too bad that we Americans cannot vote for a Spanish socialist tommorrow. I like their style.

  12. Robert, ex-pat Brit 4 Feb 2008, 4:44pm

    Klay, too bad that the UK socialists can’t be like their Spanish cousins. Spain has far more women in government than the UK which has the worst record for females in government of any western nation. I think that factored into why Spain was successful in combatting the RC church in getting full fledged equality through, something we could learn a lesson from.

  13. Joseph Chetcuti 29 Jul 2008, 10:43pm

    The Church thinks it has every right to be critical of gay men and lesbians (we are, after all, an aberration!) and undermine our rights but when the shoe is on the other foot, it simply does not like it. The time has come for the Church to get a bit of its own medicine. I congratulate the Spanish people and the Spanish government for their courageous stand in favour of human rights. The decision to hold the next World Youth Day in Spain is a another deliberate attempt to undermine democracy in that country. Perhaps the government should simply ban the event.

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