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Gibraltar gays take age of consent fight to Europe

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  1. Paul Mitchell 6 Feb 2007, 3:31am

    It is that time again that Gibraltar and Bermuda are still maintaining male homosexual sex age of consent at 18 – 16 for lesbians and heterosexual sex, this is a disgrace for the 21st century!I would love to draft a written legal bill for Bermuda and Gibraltar for sexual offences for all those under 16 regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation!As well, Guernsey (Including Alderney, Herm and Sark) have a legal Bill already to amend the “Sexual Offences Bill” equal to 16 regardless and all the rest for the UK Territories have already have an equal age of consent 16 for all (Except Northern Ireland where it is 17 for all)Question: What section(s) needs to be “repealed” now under Gibraltar and Bermuda’s “Sexual Offences Act(s)”? Answer: All those that are plainly discriminatory based on gender and/or sexual orientation!P.S. This is also bias based on only gay males and not gay females. I am in NSW, Sydney (age of consent equal at 16 regardless in NSW) Moreover; Queensland is still maintaining the same thing as Gibraltar and Bermuda!

  2. I find it quite telling that neither Gordon Brown or David Cameron are saying anything about this in spite of Gibraltar’s connection to the commonwealth. I only hope Spain ups the ante to claim back Gibraltar once and for all, at least gay Gibraltarians will have their FULL equality under Spanish law, unlike our own. Robert, ex-pat Brit, USA.

  3. Paulo Castro 17 Oct 2007, 11:02pm

    “Gibraltar is a self-governing overseas territory of the United Kingdom, and the British government in London have no control over social policy.”To start, Gibraltar is NOT a territory of the United Kingdom. Gibraltar is indeed a self-governing overseas Realm of the British Crown and the United Kingdom Government is only responsible for Foreign and Defense Affairs.Regarding the Age of Consent, it does NOT really matter whether it is 16, 17 or 18 Years Old, the real matter is that the Age of Consent should be the same for Heterosexual and Homosexual, this would be the point of any Equality Bill.In relation to Gay Partnerships and Marriages, they will soon be legalised all over the European Union. Hopefully, the New Reform Treaty is to be signed in Lisbon by Friday will surely help solving this issue.

  4. In reply to Robert: You don’t live in Gibraltar so its not your concern WE have no desire to be part of Spain and are self Governing.This means its not anything to do with Mr Brown either who has enough problems with the mess in the UK.Being a small jurisdiction there is a lot of EU legislation to transpose into Gibraltar law.Unlike the USA the police do not engage in entrapment and nobody is in practice the least bit concerned about anyone’s sexuality.

  5. Robert, ex-pat Brit 18 Oct 2007, 1:47pm

    Jim, so I suppose everyone who does not live in Gibraltar is not entitled to express their opinions? I thought Gibraltar believed in free speech, obviously it doesn’t if one is an outsider.Regarding Spain, at least that country’s government had the guts, bravery and common decency to grant full equality for its Gay and Lesbian citizens without exception, unlike yours that never will and to some extent the UK in general. I’d rather live in a progressive, free society than in one that is backward and doesn’t believe in democracy for all its people. Segregation never worked in Nazi Germany and it never worked in the USA. Laws that only apply to the majority but not to a minority based on sexual orientation is not democracy and its not equality either. Its discrimination, plain and simple. Assuming you are straight, how would you feel if you and your fellow straights were denied the same rights that your Gay and Lesbian citizens are denied? You would accept it and be relegated to second-class citizenship? How would you like to be told you can’t marry the one you love because you’re straight? How would you like to lose your job, refused a room in an hotel, guest house, a home with your partner, health care based on your sexual orientation? Walk in our shoes and see what its like.

  6. Sister Mary Clarence 18 Oct 2007, 2:56pm

    I see you’ve joined the barmy army then, robertIsn’t it strange how we read things differently – I read Jim’s posting (without making any assumptions on his sexuality at all) and thought, that’s nice, I wish it was like that everywhere, when I read his comment, “Unlike the USA the police do not engage in entrapment and nobody is in practice the least bit concerned about anyone’s sexuality”.Again, someone has managed to throw the term ‘Nazi’ into a reply to comments on here because they didn’t like what was being said.It is likely that those living in Gibraltar have a better idea than those not, about life there as life as reflected in the media may not always be a true reflection. I think also to be fair, making inflammatory statements about neighbouring countries invading someone’s home are likely to result in adverse reactions from those living there (happily). If someone suggested that the Netherlands invade the UK so that we could get a few more gay rights, I suspect a few of us might be wading in to say we’d rather get there on our own.“Segregation never worked in Nazi Germany and it never worked in the USA.”. I think that Jim was making the point that people are treated no differently in Gibraltar and that sexuality is not an issue – no rights are denied, no one is treated like a second class citizen, and no one is refused a room in a hotel or guest house.Possibly it hasn’t been at the top of Gordon or David’s agenda of things to comment on because they are tied up with events occurring in their own country. The authorities in Gibraltar have the power to legislate and we (and Spain) should allow them to do so. Having lived in Spain also Robert, I can assure you it is not the Utopia you seem to think it is. Again, we have another example of someone completely perverting and distorting comments on here. Again, it is someone from the US. I am friends with a number of people from the US and I work with many more. Gay or straight they are regular people, not largely different from me. We want similar things from life, we have common views on things, we laugh at the same jokes. Generally we get on. How this site has managed to attract a small group of utter lunatics I cannot understand. Not everyone from the US is an extremist or fantasist. Can we not have a few comments from the lovely, pleasant, normal thinking citizens that inhabit those shores? Please God we start hearing a little more from them.

  7. Paulo Castro:According to the Foreign Commonwealth Office, Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory.

  8. Bill Perdue 18 Oct 2007, 6:44pm

    It is simply a not true (and we’ve come to expect that from Mother Superior) to allege that “Again, someone has managed to throw the term ‘Nazi’ into a reply to comments on here because they didn’t like what was being said.” It’s clear to everyone that the term was not used, as suggested, to describe someone but to describe a retrograde political system. That dishonest use of innuendo and deceit are a distinguishing trait of those whose own politics are pathetically backward-looking and insular. Since their politics are preposterous and indefensible, they habitually end up lobbing feces at ideas they disagree with, and turning every dialog into a personal attack. That kind of behavior should be limited to the juvenile chimpanzee exhibit at the zoo.

  9. Robert, ex-pat Brit 18 Oct 2007, 6:47pm

    Sister Mary, I have not joined the barmey army as you suggest, far from it.If Gay Gibraltarians aren’t denied any rights, then why is a landlord allowed to discriminate against a gay couple from applying for a flat or any other home? Why is the age of consent different for gay people? Can gay people serve openly in the Gibraltar police force without reprisal? Can they get married? Can they adopt children? The answer to this is an emphatic NO! So much for not being denied anything. How naive you are! And another thing, I pay taxes in the UK and the US and I still vote in the UK so I can say what I want, please or offend. The truth always hurts doesn’t it?

  10. Robert, ex-pat Brit 18 Oct 2007, 6:54pm

    Sister Mary, another thing. I daresay there is any utopian society. If it had been Italy, you might have said you lived there too. The fact of the matter is this: Spain does not discriminate against gay and lesbian people at the legislative level when it comes to equality. They are the true equals of their straight compatriots as are the Canadians, the Dutch and the Belgians. We in the UK and elsewhere are not. Theirs IS a better society for it whether you enjoyed living there or not and a damn sight better than we’re doing or ever will.

  11. Sister Mary Clarence 18 Oct 2007, 7:45pm

    In relation to your first retort – so its Gibraltar you are likening to Nazi Germany then, not poor old Jim, who dared to say that from a resident’s poiint of view it was an okay place?

  12. Sister Mary Clarence 18 Oct 2007, 7:48pm

    In relation to retort number two, why don’t we ask Jim? He lives there, or should we just base all our opinions on headline grabbing stories you read on extremist websites?And Bill, the truth doesn’t always hurt. I think you’ll find more often its lies that do.

  13. Sister Mary Clarence 18 Oct 2007, 7:55pm

    In relation to retort number three, I have lost count of the number of times my mates and I got homophobic abuse thrown at us as we rolled out of a gay club at five in the morning, when I lived there. ‘Spain’ might not descriminate, but there are still many ‘Spanish’ that do.Very little difference between Spain and the UK in my experience.The more you rant, the clearer it becomes that you have nothing more that a cursory knowledge of real life outside of cyber space.

  14. Sister Mary Clarence 18 Oct 2007, 8:04pm

    Ohhhh and Bill’s back. Brace yourselves for some stimulating debate on “Northern Ireland, wicked English colonialism, wicked USA colonialism and wicked Christians” to quote Luke. And lets not forget Jihad – how could we? And yes, yes, Bill I know I’m a Conservative Nazi Chihuahua.

  15. Paulo Castro 18 Oct 2007, 9:49pm

    Editor: It is exactly as I said: a self-governing British Overseas Territory (Crown Realm), but it is still not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Please check the link to The Gibraltar Constitution Order 2006:

  16. so its a BRITISH OVERSEAS TERRITORY you titgo back to your rock! we should pull out and SELL you to Spain lol

  17. Sister Mary Clarence 19 Oct 2007, 1:00am

    To quote Wikipedia ….”The British Overseas Territories are fourteen territories which the United Kingdom considers to be under its sovereignty, but not as part of the United Kingdom itself.”Sorry, as Pablo says …. not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

  18. Robert, ex-pat Brit 19 Oct 2007, 1:20pm

    Sister Mary whoever you are, I never once said there is no homophobia in Spain, you idiot. There is homophobia in every country on this planet, you think I’m that naive and stupid? What I implied that compared to the UK, Holland, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada have done far more their gay citizens than the UK ever has or ever will, i.e. FULL EQUALITY. You’ll never stop homophobia but you can stop discrimination of any kind. Where there’s a will, there’s a way, clearly we in the UK have a long way to go as does Gibraltar and other dependencies, territories and realms. Stop assuming the air of moral superiority and learn to deal with constructive criticism.

  19. Robert, ex-pat Brit 19 Oct 2007, 1:21pm

    Kevin, at least if it were returned to Spain, the rightful owner, at least gays in Gibraltar would have their equality and we wouldn’t be here having this conversation.

  20. Sister Mary Clarence 19 Oct 2007, 2:41pm

    Actually Robert, I think you’d probably find that the locals would be interned or held under house arrest. That was the outcome last time another country attempted to invade a British Overseas Territory (namely the Falkland Islands).”you think I’m that naive and stupid …”, not at all Robert, I think that you probably spend a great deal of time reading about things, without actually having any experience of them, hence you are a pocket expert on everything.Despite what I have seen heard or read, I always try to be open to the views expressed by others closer to the issue than me. Time and time again that does seem to set me at odds with you and some of your chums.I note also that you use the term ‘WE in the UK’. I’m in the UK mate, but your username is ‘Robert, ex-pat Brit, USA’, so that seems to suggest that it should be YOU in the UK rather than WE in the UK.

  21. Robert, ex-pat Brit 19 Oct 2007, 3:01pm

    Sister Mary Clarence, I was born in the UK, am a dual national of both the US and UK, have a residence and a business in the UK and spend time in both countries, I also vote in the UK and pay taxes there, so I’m more than entitled to use the pronoun, “we”.

  22. Paulo Castro 19 Oct 2007, 9:05pm

    EVERYONE: I am not Spanish I am Portuguese and I do support Gibraltar to be kept under British Crown. If the British Crown returns Gibraltar to Spain, then Spain would have to return Ceuta (on the other side of the Strait) and Melilla (another Spanish enclave)to Marocco. But I would rather mantain things as they are in order to keep the full European control of the Strait. By the way, Spain has also occupied a Portuguese town and therefore has not morality to ask Gibraltar back.

  23. In reply to Robert, ex-pat Brit, USAWhy do you wish to shove Spain down my throat? Its got nothing to do with the issue being discussed here and its really very offensive.Using your argument America should be returned to Britain – those naughty rebels seized it illegally 72 years after Gibraltar became British.One thing everyone in Gib is agreed on regardless of their sexual preference, religion or ethnicity is that ‘joining Spain’ is not an optionIn 2002 we had a referendum on the subject of joint sovereignty 87.9% of the electorate voted and 99% said no.And no means NO.

  24. The age of consent should be raised to 21 or higher.

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