So an Iranian leader tells British MPs that gays should be executed? Hmmmmm, now if that isn’t enough to enact hate crimes legislation in the UK, I don’t know what is. If UK islamic citizens had their way, they’d probably support the same thing. I find it quite revealing that not one islamic leader in Britain condemned such abominable remarks which only proves that their religion is not as peaceful as they’ll have you believe. Silence gives consent.
Yes, ex-pat Robert, that mouthpiece of “Moderate Terrorism” Dr. Bari of the MCB, has the cheek to accuse the UK of being like Nazi Germany in its treatment of Muslims, YET, says nothing at all about this disgusting rubbish that we should all be killed!Talk about hypocrite!
Roberto, what galls me even more is that these muslims who migrate to the UK, once there, they want to impose their religious bigotry on the rest of the country and expect exemption from certain equality laws. If they’re so antiwestern, why do they emigrate to spew their venom if they hate our civilisation so much? Nobody invited them, so let them go back to their backward, regressive societies where they belong. Bunch of hypocrites and bigots, nothing more.
Why didn’t these MP’s immediately call for the expulsion of Iran from the Inter-Parliamentary Union and the UN? The time for polite slaps on the wrist is over. The people who should get the death penalty are the conservative theocrats who rule Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Nigeria where the legal lynching of GLBT folk is permitted or practiced. Other criminals who should be punished for the murder of GLBT folk include Bush and his lapdog Blair, whose forces arm and train the jihadist Shiite and Sunni death squads who hunt down and murder our brothers and sisters in Iraq.
Strange that they want to murder gays, yet they revere the islamic prophet mohammed who married a 6 year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was 9 and he was 54.They never seem to condemn paedophilia; can’t imagine why.As for the iraqi death squads. Well, I think the blame rather lies with the lunatics that are doing the killing. A chilling reminder of what may lie in store in Europe if these nutters continue to grow in power.
I’m not surprised that some want to justify or close their eyes to the US role in arming the jihadist death squads but the facts are what they are and can’t be ignored. I don’t believe for a minute that these murders, like the related killing of over 650,000 other Iraqis by the invading US and English armies and the death squads are religious in nature, although religion is often used by cynical and reactionary politicians to justify a myriad of crimes. That was true in Germany during the Nazi era when both protestant and catholic cultists encouraged anti-Semitism. It’s true today in Palestine, where anti-islamic bigots use it as a cover for the apartheid system imposed on Palestinians and in Bosnia where it was used recently to justify genocidal attacks on muslims. In Ireland the Paisleyite DUP whips up anti-catholic sentiment to bar the Irish from good jobs and housing. And in all countries where muslim and christian theocrats have influence it’s used to oppress and even, an in Nigeria and Iran, to murder us. In Iraq these murder squads prey on the whole population, not just GLBT folk. The mass murders are meant to destabilize Iraqi society to further the goal of stealing and administering Iraqi oil interests for the US. It’s not a religious question – it’s all about the oil and mass murder.
So we have a news item about Islamic leaders wanting to kill gays and Bill goes off one one about the evil US, evil English (Not British mind!), evil Catholics, evil Protestants, evil Israel and even manages to get in a swipe at the Northern Ireland position!!!!I think you’ve ticked all your boxes with that post Bill.
Luke’s politics are guided by his obvious hatred for everyone identified with islam and the Arab tradition. Nothing else matters to him but his hatred. He mentions the connections I made between the ways religion is used to justify racism, antigay bigotry and economic oppression. I’m flabbergasted to see he can remember what I said long enough to make a list but wonder why he doesn’t try to supply facts or an analysis to show how I’m wrong. Maybe he thinks further repetition of his only political idea – irrational hatred for a whole culture – would expose him to charges of prejudice, bias and bigotry.
Ahha, a “straw man” argument from Bill. Misrepresent my position and then, well, start ranting as per usual.I hate no culture. I do hate individuals within any culture that openly call for my death. If they use teaching from that culture to justify their hatred, it is perfectly reasonable to ridicule those teachings too.I’m not the only one on here to notice Bill’s non stop diatribe against his pet subjects and his obvious unwillingness to unequivably condemn certain types of homophobic lunatics without going off at a tangent against the USA, England, Israel and Catholics.
Bill, have you actually ever BEEN to Ireland?Bear in mind, while the “Paisleyite DUP whips up anti-catholic sentiment”, one the other side some nationalists were bombing innocent children. There was, and still is, extremism on both sides in Northern politics, but this is a minority. The majority of the unionist people of the North are peaceful people and have no ill will to catholic or people from the South. And bear in mind, currently, it seems the majority of the North wish to remain in the UK, and that’s their right to self determination. Its called democracy.So, please, give your sweeping English bashing generalisations a rest. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Live there a while and you wouldn’t be so quick with your 1922 rhetoric.
Bill, I must come to Luke’s defence. Like him, I do not hate any culture either. What I do hate are those indivuals whose cultures preach hatred, intolerance and in islamic cultures, death to gay people. One does not have to be an islamic extremist either. Its part of the their culture to punish anyone engaging in same sex activity or anyone who is overtly gay. There isn’t one islamic culture that doesn’t support this and most aren’t extremists either. If it is such a peaceful religion, why haven’t any of their spiritual leaders even the moderate ones come to our defence at home and abroad? How can you defend any culture for that? At least most other denominations aren’t calling for our deaths with the exception perhaps of Fred Phelps’ fringe group in the U.S.
Bill, I must also defend William’s response to you. The UK government is more than willing to accede to the wishes of some in the north who wish to secede from the UK and join the republic if that is their wish, but it must be done through the ballot box. That’s what democracy is all about. To accomplish that, there would have to be a far larger number of catholic voters to bring that about or in the absence thereof, the consent of the protestant majority. The fact of the matter is, its not realistic. There are only two ways that could be achieved and I think you’re already aware of it. Let more people from the republic move to the north and outnumber protestant voters if that’s what the republic wants,then you will get what you desire, an united Ireland. I don’t see that happening in the distant future.
Wow, finally. I havn’t been yelled at in so long i thought i was losing it.So in order of appearence, Lukes posts consistently belittle muslim culture, make dishonest and biased statements about generalized muslim culpability while denying the guilt of the US and Engleand in arming the death squads. This line is a repititon of the racist position of the Aparthied State of Israel, which is not a democracy because it denies representation to the Palestinians. William seems to think that supporters of Irist independence and unification write off the protestanst in the north. I think that if Williams takee the time to examine the positions of Sinn Féin in thier newspaper An Phoblacht he’ll find that his comments are not reflective of the real situation. William says that irish nationalists kill children. For a real look at the facts click on
Wow, finally. I haven’t been yelled at in so long I thought I was losing it.So in order of appearance, Luke’s posts consistently belittle muslim culture, make dishonest and biased statements about generalized muslim culpability while denying the guilt of the US and England in arming the death squads. This line is a repetition of the racist position of the Apartheid State of Israel, which is not a democracy because it denies representation to the Palestinians. William seems to think that supporters of Irish independence and unification write off the protestants in the north. I think that if Williams take the time to examine the positions of Sinn Féin in their newspaper An Phoblacht he’ll find that his comments are not reflective of the real situation. The central issue in the north remains the one I mentioned – the use of religion inspired bigotry to deny equality in jobs, housing education, medical and social services to the Irish. http://www.anphoblacht.comWilliam says that Irish nationalists kill children. For a real look at the facts click on where you’ll find that the majority of deaths were caused by the various English military and police agencies. What seems to be missing from this report is the probably larger number of children murdered by non-governmental death squads like the Paisleyite UDA. Brian Nelson, convicted of several sectarian murders was a member of the UDA and an English intelligence officer. The news reports I’ve seen all point to attacks on Irish children by groups like the UDA. And finally William betrays his opposition to Irish independence and unity when he says ‘it seems the majority of the North wish to remain in the UK, and that’s their right to self determination. Its called democracy.” ‘North’ and ‘South” Vietnam have disappeared, replaced by a united and independent Vietnam. The French and the US are gone. There were several million French in Algeria who thought they had a ‘democratic’ right to an opinion about the future of Algeria; after all, they’d been there for generations and had worked hard to create farms, businesses and build an infrastructure. But the Algerians who’d done the actual work while the French raked in the profits thought otherwise. Algeria is now united and independent. Robert exPat, islam, like all religions, is fundamentally reactionary and conservative. I’ve said so often. The tragedy of events in the muslim world is that as they watch the agony of the Palestinians victimized by the zionist Apartheid state and the genocidal attack of the US and English against the Iraqis they see no end in sight. The “progressive’ and “democratic “politics of the Nasserites, Fatah and the Baathists led to a dead end of betrayal and dictatorship. The UN, the Russians, Stalinist and post-Stalinist haven’t lifted a finger to help them. And as their rage builds the religious message of the Shiite and Sunni extremists, liberally dosed with populist appeals has captured the loyalty of many. But not all. Unions continue to challenge both the colonialists in Iraq and the ayatollahs in Iran. Women and GLBT folk everywhere are demanding their rights, even when they’re killed for it in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran. Muslim societies are as complex and multilayered as those in the EU and North American and it’s wrong to assume that the mullahs speak for everyone. They speak only for the dementia common to all religions. Sorry about that first post. My idiot security program went into lockdown and I hit the wrong button. I have cataracts and we don’t have a labor party and don’t have socialized medicine. Until I can get new lenses I make do with a combination of Voice Recognition programs and a word format that allows me to compose and correct with 48 to 72 point letters and which includes my own personal savior, SpellCheck.
“William seems to think that supporters of Irist independence and unification write off the protestanst in the north.”Did you just make that up or something? I said no such thing. Were you taking medication when you read my last comment, or is it that you have a poor grasp of the English language?So, we’re off again, if we don’t agree with Bill’s uber extreme views, well, we’ll just make up stuff, insult them, or accuse them of supporting imperialism. Great argument there Bill. But why stop there, why not offer to kill those who don’t agree with you? It worked quite successfully for Stalin, if I recall.And before you insult my nation again by accusing people who respect democracy as in “opposition to Irish independence”, perhaps you should get on a plane and come over here rather then making up stupid and ill-informed views on what you clearly haven’t a clue about and a country you have never been to.Maybe you should stop reading propaganda publishings like An Phoblacht, which does not represent the vast majority of Irish people, either north and south, and buy yourself a decent dictionary. You have the lexicon and grammatical prowess of a dyslexic 5 year old.
“…while denying the guilt of the US and England in arming the death squads”That would of course be some of your notorious reading between the lines/making it up I take it Bill, as Luke has in fact said nothing of the sort.As per usual anything relevant you have to say goes completely out of the window when your unhinged ranting begins.Is it an illness you have or something? Can you not stop yourself? Let me know what it’s called and I can google it to find out a bit more about it. Maybe it will iritate me less if I understand it more.
“…while denying the guilt of the US and England in arming the death squads” = “As for the iraqi death squads. Well, I think the blame rather lies with the lunatics that are doing the killing.” I say they’re both guilty, he says only the jihadists. Learn to read, Mother Superior. Learn to think. It’s important, and even conservatives can do it if they try hard enough. Then theres just a chance that you’ll begin to make some sense. If it dosen’t work at least you can say you tried.
I’m afraid Bill I think that those who pull the trigger do have to carry some of the responsibility for their actions.While you’re busy defending them and trying to shift the blame to someone else their probably blowing the head off the next mother’s child.And they’ll always get away with it when we’ve got you and your mates in the fifth column prepared to make excuses for them.You’re as bad as the God bothering nutters on here, following the Bible. We all have to take responsibility for our own actions – God, Jihad, Bush, Blair, colonialism, illegal wars and all the other excuses to trot out are nothing more than that – excuses.Take responsibility mate, take responsibility.Grow up Bill, please grow up.
Mother Superior, if that was your best shot at trying to actually think it failed again. Better luck next time.
Bill (comrade), you come across as a combination of workers revolutionary trades union dinosaur from the 1970′s and the mad woman from The Simpsons who throws cats at everyone.My “support” for Israel on this board, has gone as far as being appreciative of their stance on gay rights in stark contrast to every other country in that part of the world.This is, after all, a gay news website.Your non stop ranting against the English, Americans, Israelies, Christians in general and Catholics in particular is in total contrast to your pitiful attempts to even criticise in the slightest assorted Islamic clerics who kill us where they are able, imprison and beat us where they can’t kill us, and promote killing us where they don’t yet have the chance to do any of the former.You accuse others of racism, yet you only give a damn about gay Muslims in Iran, Iraq and elsewhere being murdered to the extent that your moral somersaults allow you to rant against everyone, except the people (and their ideology)who are doing the killing.But hypocrisy and Marxism were always appropriate bedfellows.
Is Luke deceitful? Does he actually read what we have to say? Or does he just make things up as he goes along. He say that my “non stop ranting against the English, Americans, Israelies, Christians in general and Catholics in particular is in total contrast to your pitiful attempts to even criticise in the slightest assorted Islamic clerics…” Look down at the 4th post in this discussion where you’ll find that I do a bit more than criticize the Ayatollahs, I call for their execution. “Why didn’t these MP’s immediately call for the expulsion of Iran from the Inter-Parliamentary Union and the UN? The time for polite slaps on the wrist is over. The people who should get the death penalty are the conservative theocrats who rule Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Nigeria where the legal lynching of GLBT folk is permitted or practiced. Other criminals who should be punished for the murder of GLBT folk include Bush and his lapdog Blair, whose forces arm and train the jihadist Shiite and Sunni death squads who hunt down and murder our brothers and sisters in Iraq.”I say that those ones who do the ‘legal’ lynching and the jihadist thugs who do the shooting should be tried and executed. They ones who put them up to it should he held accountable. How can you honestly claim that I’m uncritical of the ayatollahs? Luke constantly harps on the wonders of the ‘democratic’ zionist state, never criticizing what Nobel Laureate Desmond Tutu, a indisputable authority on the subject of Apartheid describes as an Apartheid state. This weeks Advocate quotes the Times of London report that Shushan, the only gay and lesbian bar in Jerusalem, decided to close its doors this week after serving for four years as a place where drag queens, Palestinians, and Orthodox Jews intermingled. “Shushan was one of the few places where we could feel that we were in a free world,” Yan Carmel told The Times. The Advocate, the US’s leading GLBT paper goes on to say that “Gays and lesbians in Jerusalem frequently face disapproval and violence. Last year, the city’s gay pride parade was moved to a stadium because police feared they could not protect marchers from attacks. The year before, an Orthodox man stabbed three people during a street procession. The bar has been a target of violence as well. Two years ago it was severely damaged in an arson attack. No one was injured, and the attack helped the bar’s clientele become closer-knit, according to patrons.” Finally in terms of superstitious cults I’m an equal opportunity atheist – I despise all of them as reactionary and demeaning to the human spirit. But I do admit to having a special animosity towards Der Pope and his legions of boy rapists, so not everything you say is based on deceit, bias or ignorance, willful or otherwise. Just most of it.
“You accuse others of racism, yet you only give a damn about gay Muslims in Iran, Iraq and elsewhere being murdered”. Bill I absolutely agree with Luke. In all of the countries you list, persecution is a theme against many sections of the community. If you want to highlight inequality in these countries, talk about the breaches of human rights, violence, and inequality that so many sections of these societies face.Segregation in the way that you always seem to, separating the struggles of the gay community from those of all the other persecuted groups that existing is divisive and ultimately weakens the battle for equality.
Iran: Young Man Executed for Alleged Sex Crime For Immediate Release Contact: Hossein Alizadeh, IGLHRC Communications Coordinator, 212-430-6016 (New York, Wednesday December 5, 2007) – The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) has learned today that despite an order by the Iranian Chief Justice to nullify his death sentence, Mr. Makvan Mouloodzadeh was executed in Kermanshah Central Prison at 5 a.m. this morning, Iranian time. Neither Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s family or his lawyer were told about the execution until after it occurred. IGLHRC is still investigating the facts in this case. “This is a shameful and outrageous travesty of justice and international human rights law,” said Paula Ettelbrick, IGLHRC’s executive director. “How many more young Iranians have to die before the international community takes action?” Mr. Mouloodzadeh was a 21-year-old Iranian citizen who was accused of committing anal rape (ighab) with other young boys when he was 13 years old. However, at Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s trial, all the witnesses retracted their pre-trial testimonies, claiming to have lied to the authorities under duress. Makvan also told the court that his confession was made under coercion and pleaded not guilty. On June 7, 2007, the Seventh District Criminal Court of Kermanshah in Western Iran found him guilty and sentenced him to death. Despite his lawyer’s appeal, the Supreme Court upheld his death sentence on August 1, 2007. The case caused an international uproar, and prompted a letter writing campaign by IGLHRC and similar actions by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Outrage! and Everyone Group. In response to mounting public pressure, and following a detailed petition submitted to the Iranian Chief Justice by Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s lawyer, the Iranian Chief Justice, Ayatollah Seyed Mahmoud Hashemi Shahrudi, nullified the impending death sentence of Mr. Mouloodzadeh. In his November 10, 2007 opinion (1/86/8607), the Iranian Chief Justice described the death sentence to be in violation of Islamic teachings, the religious decrees of high- ranking Shiite clerics, and the law of the land. In accordance with Iranian legal procedure, Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s case was sent to the Special Supervision Bureau of the Iranian Justice Department, a designated group of judges who are responsible for reviewing and ordering retrials of flawed cases flagged by the Iranian Chief Justice. However, in defiance of the Chief Justice, the judges decided to ratify the original court’s ruling and ordered the local authorities to carry out the execution. Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s execution came days after a panel at the UN General Assembly passed a resolution calling for a moratorium on the death penalty. You can read IGLHRC’s action alert on our website: http:// http://www.iglhrc.org/site/iglhrc/section.php?id=5detail=797 Our Letter to the Iranian authorities is also posted on our website in both English and Persian: section.php?id=5detail=798
What barbarians the Iranians really are.Mohammed, shit and piss upon him, was, of course, a paedophile. Allah’s Arsehole
Neville, its disgusting what is going on in Iran. Nobody in their right mind could ever say that islam is a peaceful religion and it sickens me when western leaders describe it as one of the world’s great religions. Bullshit! Where are all the socalled moderates in the islamic world, where, and where are all the other religious leaders, christian and jew alike? What a disgusting bunch of cowards. Their silence gives consent to the atrocities going on in the middle east, especially when it comes to our own kind. Where are Brown and Cameron?
Neville, what about those other ragheads in the Sudan getting bent out of shape over a f–king teddybear being called Muhammed? Amazing that British Islamic moderates went to bat for the teacher involved, but not for the poor soul executed in Iran this morning just because he was gay and the witnesses eventually retracted the charges, yet they still executed him. The international community is complicit in this.
Can I remind everyone who is intent on fighting their own little battles on this thread that the story here is one of a young man who was taken out and hung by the neck until dead.Consider for a few moments the enormity of that and imagine if you can how he must have felt in his last moments.Then get angry. Very angry. Not with each other but with the vile fuckers who did this vile fucking thing.
Iran is a truly foul, wicked and evil country run by foul, wicked and evil men.I don’t think we should refer to this as an “execution” because the term means a person would have been properly and fairly tried and convicted.No, this was a murder of a totally innocent man – pure and simple. I strongly believe that the Iranian regime should be arrested the moment they step outside of the cess pit they call Iran and tried for their foul, wicked and evil crimes.I won’t hold my breath!
I am sure the majority of people whether gay or straight are horrified by this latest atrocity.I am very lucky that both my local MP and my MEP both are quite willing to raise issues like this where it matters.If everyone could copy articles like this in emails to there own representatives then collectively we would stop being a silent impotent voice and become one that the people in power would have to start listening to and reckoning withYES – It could be wishful thinking BUT it’s better than doing nothing
Roberto, you are so right. Further, there is no such thing as a fair trial in Iran with the mullah’s in control of government and the judicial system, but then its not a democracy and never will be, ditto for the rest of the islamic world, not even in Iraq.This was state sanctioned murder, no question about that. That part of the world is so f—ked up to allow religious fanatics to gain power. They are all backward societies living with a 9th century mentality. A woman can be gang-raped and is sentenced to 200 lashes, while her perpetrators go free, all sanctioned by islam since none have come out in defense of this poor woman, let alone that equally poor young man in Iran and the international community remains silent. DISGUSTING!
Its time that the gay community is finally going to open our mouths and show our protests and disgust, and make ourselves heard that such barbaric behaviour is not acceptable. The Iranaian Minister Mohsen Yahyavi ( who is the highest-ranked politician to admit that Iran believes in the death penalty for homosexuality) told British MP’s at the Inter-Parliamentary Union in May this year, that homosexuals should be executed [he initially said tortured but changed it to executed]. And Iran has again kept its word, despite President Ahmadinejad, questioned by students in New York two months ago about the executions, claimed there were no gays in Iran .Britain regularly challenges Iran about its gay hangings, stonings and executions for perceived moral criminals, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) papers show. Yet it still stands back and does nothing.Other than send failed asylum seekers back in the hope that they do not face a similar fate.I for one object, and despite the Home Offices suggestion, I have no intention of my partner facing a similar fate. For it is only by chance and the roll of the dice, that we are not born in Iran , that we here in the west are not in their shoes and facing the same persecution, torture and death for our sexuality
I don’t understand why he bothered to call for our executions did he really think anybody would listen.
I find it incredibly sad that acts like this are going on in the world in apparently “civilised” countries , its animal like to say the least. These people should be stopped!, i cant believe they are killing young men for suspicion of homosexual activity, it remind me of the witch hunts in Massachusetts in the 17century. And the sad thing is that there is nobody there for these individuals, their parents and everyone around them will have been brainwashed with the same crap as their killers would have been. More for the reason that civilised western countries should intervene.
According to a report yesterday in Gays Without Borders most of the people from Makwan’s hometown, nearly 6,000, attended his funeral. It was a courageous show of solidarity and defiance.The point is that there is opposition in Iran across the social spectrum. Trade unionists, students, feminists and GLB folk are being killed in large numbers and have been driven underground. Right now one of the main props of the ayatollah’s regime is George Bush, the Democratic Congress, and their lapdog ‘allies’ whose war threats cement the ayatollahs power. Iranians are all too aware of the genocidal fury of the oil pirates in Iraq and will support the existing government and army to prevent that happening to them. Here is a letter from a resident of Makwans home town, also carried in gayswithborders at yahoo groups dot com. I am a resident of Paveh, the town where Makwan lived in. I knew him very well, everyone knows that he was innocent or at least did not deserve that inhumane verdict which was issued by a gang of criminals who are supposedly in charge of justice in Iran. I have to tell you the truth behind what led to the shocking death of Makwan. The youth living in Paveh are Kurds and Sunnis, they are deprived of a variety of rights, the majority of them are jobless and the town has always faced suppression form the regime after the revolution, for political activities. Now the youth in town are filled with an anger accumulated over years of injustice. To create an atmosphere of fear, the regime sacrificed Makwan so that the youth will not dare to protest against any thing. They executed him and used him just as an excuse to pursue their political purposes behind the scenes. The move, however, has been condemned by the whole residents in the town and has created an atmosphere of unity and awareness among the public. They attended his funeral in masses which was in fact a demonstration against what the regime decided as part of its suppressive policies.I hereby call on all international rights groups to pursue the case of those behind the decision which led to the death of an innocent youth. The right activists across the world have to fulfill their duty of justice and do their best to bring before law those who issued the unfair verdict and now are walking freely with no sense of guilt.Thank You.HivaThese are not people who deserve to be incinerated by Bush’s nuclear weapons. They deserve our political support as they fight to end the theocracy and stay independent of the oil pirates..