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Nominees for Stonewall politics award “honoured”

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  1. Peter Rivendell 16 Aug 2007, 11:07am

    I posted the report about the Stonewall Awards on my blog and to my surprise, I have received a response from Patricia McKeever of Catholic Truth, one of the nominees for Bigot of the Year. I have no idea why she has hit me but here it is -I have been informed that I am shortlisted for your “award” of “Bigot of the Year” – quite an honour! However, you really mustn’t believe all you read in the papers. The Times article is now the subject of a complaint to the PCC because they refused to publish a letter from me refuting the many errors in their hatchet job, designed to make me out to be a sinister, harassing ‘homophobe’. Nothing secretive about me, by the way. Our contact details are on our website. I am not conducting a witch-hunt; our newsletter team reacts to the various concerns (church issues) put to us by our readers and reporting on sexually active priests or priests who priests who contravene Church law by supporting the homosexual lifestyle has been a tiny fraction of our work to date. We have reported far more on liturgical abuses at Mass and other matters entirely unrelated to sex. Anyway, I just wanted to set the record straight but I repeat, I am honoured to be considered “Bigot of the Year” by your organisation which seeks to repress all who dare to criticise your lifestyle. Anyone with sufficient intelligence to ponder why something should go from being illegal to being almost compulsory must, in your book, be a “bigot”. So, I’m happy to be thus branded. Will you let me know if I win the award and will I be invited to London to pick up my prize?

  2. Peter Rivendell 16 Aug 2007, 4:14pm

    She has since very nicely apologised for mistaking my blog for the Stonewall site.

  3. One good thing that she is doing is outing gay priests. I’m glad, they deserve it for supporting a church that denigrates our lives and incites violence and homophobia by its actions and statements, ditto all the others. While I’m at it, why is that when straights refer to our lives, they always regard it as a “lifestyle”. Yet nobody refers to an hetero lifestyle. Why is that? I find it quite irritating.This woman should look closer at the Vatican, there are hundreds of high ranking officials close to the arch homophobe Benedict. About time they were outed too!How sick though that she would gladly accept an award for being a bigot! Goes to show how “intrinsically” disordered catholic fanatics are, among others, the real evil that religion engenders.Robert, ex-pat Brit.

  4. People are born gay. However, no-one is born with any of the utterly preposterous and evidence free beliefs about the nature of the universe that any so-called faith goes on about and tries to force on the rest of us.It is therefore, being religious that is the lifestyle choice. Not being gay.It’s not that I mind people being religious, its just when they flaunt themselves and want to shove it in my face.

  5. Patricia McKeever 16 Aug 2007, 10:06pm

    My goodness me. I’m in the Pink News again! Well intentioned people keep sending me links to various blogs where my character is being pulled part, piece by piece, but see if I care. Listen guys (or should that be “gays”?) you really must get your facts straight (if you’ll excuse the pun) if you are going to keep reporting on little old (but extremely glamorous) me. Catholic Truth does NOT operate out of an office in Edinburgh. Our address is on our website and it is a Glasgow address. Nor do we claim to have 1,000 readers. We used to have 1,000 before we removed all the Scottish priests from our mailing list (no point in casting pearls before swine) but would that awful Times journalist listen despite his name being Lister? Lister just wouldn’t listen, believe me. And that is just one of MANY errors in his hatchet job (“article” is way off the mark) on me. But, what do you think of that Stonewall executive saying I may not win the Bigot of the Year award after all, because I’m up against some stiff competition? No-one, I tell you, no-one on the face of this earth is more bigoted than me. Oh, guys (?gays) I’ve never been nominated for an award before – I want it. I absolutely MUST have it. I MUST get that aware. Do you think a bribe would work? Just between us, what do you think? I won’t tell if you won’t. Surely the Archbishop of Birmingham and Ian Paisley Jr (or senior, for that matter) don’t begin to compare to moi? Just say those three little words “no, they don’t” and I’ll be happy. But if not…Ah well, I will just have to accept my fate, as my old Irish grandmother used to say when her corns got really bad. Take care. Love you all!

  6. quote, Bigot of the Year” by your organisation which seeks to repress all who dare to criticise your lifestyle.And yet the churchs so freely do this to us????I am so glad I am not a beleiver in these gods.

  7. churchwatcher 17 Aug 2007, 12:03am

    Well, Patricia, it is about time you set your sights on the Vatican itself. Why don’t you start at the top with little old Joseph Ratzinger, a closeted self-hating queer if ever there was one? Atta girl!!

  8. Oh, dear… what a sad little woman this creature must be. Perhaps she should read some history books instead of nourishing her own insecurities by persecuting innocent people and then lauding herself for a job well don. Pathetic.

  9. Wow, I hope old Patricia there goes straight (sorry, couldn’t resist) to confession and tells her priest that she’s been in contact with “Gays”. What’s that, Pat, three hail marys and a severe talking to in case it turns you into a Lesbian?I do find it strange though, that lot can’t stand Gay priests, want to rid their church of people who are quite obviously devote christians but Gay, but don’t mind sheltering child molesters and priests who help kill British troops in Northern Ireland who quite obviously are not christians, devout or otherwise. Bit of a logic error there methinks, still, nothing new there then.I wonder if it ever occurs to them, that if there is a god, that they might be wrong, and it might be them who burn in hell. Who knows, if that chippies boy from Jerusalem was Gay, then a lot of people have got a lot of explaining to do when they tip up at those pearly gates. Now that would be worth becoming a christian for, just to see that happen.Wonder if they’ll have a hot dog van..or candy floss…

  10. Tom Forrest 17 Aug 2007, 11:27am

    Dissapointed not to have been nominated, maybe next year.

  11. Patricia McKeever 17 Aug 2007, 1:00pm

    George, I don’t think you’re pathetic at all, darling! And maybe you’re right. I ought to do something about my insecurities. I mean, who’s to say that I WON’T keep my good looks? Elizabeth Taylor did. And who’s to say I WON’T win the award this year (keep your nose out of this Tom, I want it next year as well!)And, very naughty George, to say I am patting myself on the back for a job well done. I’m not finished yet! Anyway,I wish “Anonymous” would identify himself. I don’t like these sinister, shadowy types at all. And neither does David Lister, by the way, Anonymous, so watch you don’t end up in The Times like li’l old me! Luv ya!

  12. AngieRS, I think Pat should force the Vatican to open up its library and expose the several parts of the bible that were banned by the church because of possible references to Jesus either being gay or married, among other things. What is it I wonder that compels that evil institution to keep such things under lock and key away from the world? Makes you wonder what else they’re hiding, after the scandlous molestation fiasco, an ongoing tradition in the RC church for centuries. She should also look at monastic life and see what goes on in those questionable places, unhealthy as they are. They even have priests fathering children in Latin America, but the church in its infinite wisdom looks the other way. We are and always will be the scapegoats no matter the ills that befall this anachronistic institution.Robert, ex-pat Brit.

  13. Robert, it’s all about power. Power over a vast section of people that they don’t want to relinquish. The catholics lost it here under Henry and have done all they can up to and including attempted assassination of a monarch to get it back.The black bishops in Africa and those in North America who are so deeply against us are afraid of the same thing. Once people start using their heads then the church starts losing congregations. And they can’t be doing with that.

  14. Patricia McKeever 17 Aug 2007, 2:28pm

    Please read Randy Engel’s book Rite of Sodomy exposing the roots of the awful abuse scandals in the American Church which you all so rightly condemn. There is a link to her site on the Catholic Truth website and it is easy to order from there. I read everything I can get my hands on exposing the truth about double living within the Church – will u, similarly read this thoroughly documented book about the rise of homosexuality within the priesthood in the USA and the link between this rise and the awful abuse scandals? Don’t scream at me that I am accusing every homosexual of being an abuser. I am saying no such thing. So, will you, won’t you, read Engel’s book which names names in the highest places…

  15. Thank you Patricia for four well drafted response, a true testament to your insightful mind.As for the book “Rite of Sodomy” you so use as some kind of backing for your crusade, Engel’s book is nothing but titillation at a level you’d see in the Sun, but maybe that’s your kind of paper dear. There are countless reports and investigations done before that clearly outline that its more likely a straight male will abuse a young boy than a gay man will (‘m not even going to go into them its what Google is for). Its simply really, attraction to young children, abhorrent as it is, is a “persuasion” (as you would put it) or like an orientation. Persecuting gay people will do nothing to reduce the abuse in the church.However, I’m sure this won’t dent your resolve in one little way, you clearly prefer to think you’re doing gods work. Rather like Hitler was. Bless you.God forgive your ignorance and hateful mind, its a real shame when people like you, with real zeal, put their wasted energies such pitiful causes.

  16. Peter Wright 17 Aug 2007, 3:09pm

    So, Patricia, eat any good book lately?

  17. AngieRS, I so agree with you. Its rotting from within, slowly in decline and it knows it, its losing the cultural war and it will never bounce back, people are on to them, the younger generation rejects it since it’s not relevant to modern living. How can a patriarchal, socalled celibate (what a joke that is) clergy pass or make moral judgements on what constitutes a family, condemn sex outside marriage, insist that marriage is solely for the procreation of children, against a woman’s right to choose, against equality, against divorce, against one-parent families, none of which are what you would call “christian”, the litany is endless, but I think you will get my drift? Its a desperate church, thats why Benedict flew of to Latin America because he knows many are rejecting his church for others. This has been going on since the reformation and its not going to stop. Its too late and good riddance.Robert, ex-pat Brit.

  18. George, according to government statistics here in the USA, paedophilia is overwhelmingly committed by heterosexual males, statistics that jive with state police reports. In fact, the American Psychiatric Association officially does not accept that paedophilia is the domain of gay men. The RC molestation scandal highlights only the gay component, but there were many heterosexual priests abusing both girls and boys alike, but that was played down of course.Robert, ex-pat Brit.

  19. George Broadhead 18 Aug 2007, 1:44pm

    I hope that it has not gone unnoticed that out of the five nominees for Stonewall’s ‘Bigot of the Year’ award four are religionists of one sort or another. Yet another indication that religion is the main source of homophobia.

  20. Dear Ms. McKeever,Having read your somewhat bizarre postings here in the last few days, I have just one small question. Not to be rude, I hope, but…are you a mental at all?

  21. Patricia McKeever 20 Aug 2007, 12:48am

    A “mental”? Am I a mental what? Are u asking if I am mentally ill? What do you think? A doctor friend once told me that the first sign of mental instability is often lack of a sense of humour…

  22. Fr. Pat Naughten, Ireland 20 Aug 2007, 9:25am

    “Are u asking if I am mentally ill? What do you think?”Yes. I do think you have some deep seated problems that you need to speak to a professional, or spiritual advisor about. Your action baffling, full of hate and blind prejudiced. Actions quite comparable to people like Torquemada, Hitler and Pol Pot. Indeed, nothing you should be proud of.Its too easy to pass this kind of hate as “religious belief”. Our Lord never discriminated, nor did he ever preach that this form of hate was His way. This Ms.McKeever, a sad and small person, under the auspices of “doing the Lord’s Word”, is not a follower of Christianity. Quite the opposite, in fact.One can only suspect some kind of intense tragedy has befallen her, sometime in the past, for her to scapegoat gay people. Clearly she is suffering in some way, protestations that she has “a sense of humour” only show the contrary. May god forgive her for what she does, for it is not His Work or the work of a Christian, and her hate has left her in a dark place. Take comfort that, while small people, like Ms. McKeever, are always with us, her kind are a dying breed, and our vigilance will protect the innocent. She needs our pity and compassion, hard as that may be for us to accept.

  23. Patricia McKeever 20 Aug 2007, 10:17am

    I am appalled at the posting purportedly from a priest and religious. I presume these are pseudonyms. And as for being shocked at our reports of the gay lifestyle within the Church – I am confused in the extreme. How many times have I read on this site that “gays” in the Church ought to be “outed”? Such hypocrisy. But I would like confirmation from the alleged priest and nun that they really ARE a priest and nun – otherwise I will assume that this is merely a very dishonest way of making a point. For the record, I was absolutely appalled at the Baptist’s attitude towards homosexuals on the programme of which you speak. I have no hatred of anyone – in fact, if I am “homophobic” then take it from me that I am also “murderer-a-phobic” and “thief-a-phobic”. Like each of you, I don’t doubt, I am perfectly capable of loving the sinner but hating the sin. Since you all appear to deny the very existence of God, it is understandable that you cannot grasp this concept. But the alleged priest and nun? I await confirmation of your priestly and religious status. Tell the truth and shame the Devil (if you believe he exists which is unlikely).

  24. Why are we arguing with this foolish and petty woman? She’s a bigot and an idiot. She simply answers with rhetoric nonsense: love the sinner, hate the sin. This woman is full of programmed rubbish. She hasn’t the propensity or intellect to change or listen to reason, so why should you bother trying with her.Patricia, many of us believe in god, just not the god of hate you believe in. Now, this is a gay site. So, if I may beg an indulgence and lower myself for one second: F*uckoff. We have no need of your religious brand of hate and you’ll find no converts to your pitiful cause here.

  25. While I cannot speak for Sister Mary Clarance, I can confirm I am a priest. As a priest, one could say I am better versed and educated to interpret God’s wishes. Nothing you have said here makes me think you are anything but a harbinger of evil work, Ms. McKeever. Hate is Satan’s way, no matter how you attempt to cloak it in good intentions. I doubt you will repent what you do, so I wish you well and hope you see the light of Jesus and hear His word at some stage in your life before judgement.

  26. And before you jump in Patricia, yes, I’m gay. Yes, I am a priest, this is the first time I have mentioned that fact in this site. Yes, and yes I’m proud of being gay. No, I don’t see this as a conflict. No, I do not normally curse, but its appropriate for you in this circumstances.I can’t speak for Fr. Pat Naughten, but I have no intention of letting you know my location or “proving” who I am. I am a priest under God with His grace, and I need prove nothing to the likes of you.

  27. Patricia McKeever 20 Aug 2007, 1:49pm

    You are not that proud of being gay or you wouldn’t be hiding your identity and location.

  28. Don’t you find it revealing why a socalled heterosexual bigot would venture onto a gay website? What is it about us that they find so fascinating. Could it be bigotry dressed in prurient interest in our sexuality? The ones who protest so much are the most suspect of all. The heterosexual truly comfortable with his or her orientation wouldn’t be insecure or conflicted when it comes to ours, nor would he or she demonstrate any homophobia. What are they so threatened by or could it be that thay are envious? I think people like this should be spending their time helping wayward heterosexuals with their current high rate of divorce, rape, paedophilia, pornography, children born out of wedlock (not that I see that as a sin), prostitution, violent crime, adultery, genocide, wars, famine, murder, all the result of heterosexual behaviour, what a lifestyle!Robert, ex-pat Brit.

  29. Patricia Wolfenden 20 Aug 2007, 1:53pm

    Any Priest who openly admits they are gay should be ashamed of themselves – and if they think for one minute that they have God’s Grace they are very much mistaken. You do not derseve the title Priest but not too worry you will get you’re rewards One Day in Hell! The Devil is at work. from another Patricia who thinks exactly like Patricia McKeeverOur Lady’s Immaculate Heart will Triumph in the End and where will you lot be! Oh! I can’t think Where! Mm I’ll give you a clue since that is something you fail to grasp The Devil is your Best Friend and your Enemy but the you won’t realise this until Judgement Day. Good Luck as you will all need it. From another Homo Phobic in Scotland

  30. Oh dear, looks like Pats mates are on the war path. There, there.

  31. I am gay and I am a christian. I have many christian friends who have accepted me for who I am, not what I am. I am totally appalled at the attitude of some of the christians posting truely horrible comments on this site. Is this your way of promoting the God of love, non-judement and acceptance? I also find it very worrying that these same people are actually going out of their way to post comments on this website which kind of detracts again from the ethos of christanity. God wants spiritual fruits, not religeous nuts. Our way of life may not be to your liking but why fall short of the glory of God yourselves by judging and making hurtful and hateful comments. You are no better than us….you just have different ways of falling short.

  32. “Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will Triumph in the End”Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Classic! What a nut job! Patricia Wolfenden, are you suffering from stroke??? You’d tell us, wouldn’t you? The only “triumph” you’ll do, Patricia, is to triumph over your own insanity, you demented freak!Where are all these religious “my-mommy-and-daddy-are-siblings” nutters coming from???

  33. Liam Browne 20 Aug 2007, 3:25pm

    Patricia Wolfenden, you have no authority to condemn a priest, or say who is and isn’t in “God’s grace”. You’re arrogant and misguided if you think you do. Although I think THAT ship has already sailed. Are you even educated???Why are you on this site anyway? Are you a closet Lesbian, or just like to “excite” yourself with a bit of cheap titillation for what you won’t/can’t allow yourself? You are a pathetic little thing aren’t you. No one here needs your medieval brand of “salvation”. We are gay and proud, and not one word of your false rhetoric will convince one of us otherwise. Only a few feverish degenerates like you, and the other bottom feeder Ms. McKeever, are left in the church, and we will all rejoice upon your eventual demise (or locked up for your own protection, which ever comes first)

  34. Patricia McKeever 20 Aug 2007, 7:30pm

    Liam and William your comments are entirely nasty and the rage with which you responded to Patricia W’s posting suggest a very uneasy conscience. You are not comfortable with people who believe in God and try to live by God’s law. You – and “gays” in general it seems – demand “tolerance”, “acceptance”, “non-judgmentalism” and yet you are yourselves, judging from these postings are extremely INtolerance, unaccepting and very judgmental. To boot, some of you at least – certainly those who, if we take their word for it, are Catholic priests, completely lack integrity since they are quite content, it seems, to live double lives with their parishioners presuming they are priests who love God and His Church and seek to do HIs will while all the time they are actively living duplicitous lives and, moreover, participating in a sin which has down through the centuries been condemned by the Church as one of the four sins that “cry to Heaven for vengeance”. Now, fair enough if you hate all this and want to insult us all as brainless and uneducated etc. (sticks and stones and all that) but to make your living out of the Church is shameless hypocrisy in the extreme. Liam and William, please take some well-intentioned friendly advice: learn how to discuss and “dialogue” without resorting to nastiness and name calling. Your RE teacher should have taught you that in the event that your mothers have manifestly failed. And why are we on this site? Well, someone emailed me the link to the article about my unworthy self and I thought it would be interesting to read the comments as well. Interesting? It’s been an education, I can tell you. I usually avoid blogs like the devil but, as coincidence (if there is such a thing) would have it I have found myself involved in this one and another one at the same time and the difference in the quality of the postings cannot be overstated. The other (Daily Telegraph) blog is, for the most part, civilised and friendly. You and others on this blog clearly don’t want my comments – you’ve made that clear. You want only to read what you want to read. There’s a name for that – narrow-mindedness, they call it. So I will bow out now, apologising for any offence I have inadvertently caused anyone on this blog and will only perform an encore if specifically asked a genuine question which demands a reply. Otherwise, goodbye and take care.

  35. Liam and William, I echo your sentiments. They don’t like it do they when we give them back what they’ve given us for centuries? At least we don’t use religion to justify bigotry and hatred, something that their Jesus Christ never did.The fact that hypocrites and bigots of the heterosexual “lifestyle” come here to vent proves that we’re definitely getting to them. They’re desperate, insecure people, often at conflict with their real feelings. If the pope were to issue an edict tomorrow telling them that its ok to be gay and that we could marry in the church, what would they do? All this monkey see, monkey do religion is so transparent.Robert,USA.

  36. Alan Warbrick 20 Aug 2007, 9:13pm

    With the more than entertaining arguments flying around here can I make my own observations when it comes to the two Patricia’s and their homophobic rants. I would like to comment as follows.Dear Patsy’s, My name is Alan Warbrick and I am an out and out gay man to friends, family, and anyone else who knows me. At the same time I do not flaunt it, or hide it from anyone as I do not see any reason to do so. I am me, as I was born to be, and consider myself to be perfectly rational and a balanced individual in my own mind and more than happy in my own body. Call me a ‘Happy homo’ if you like, for that is exactly what I am. It’s people like yourselves that have the problem. Leaving religion aside for the moment, why are you both so fixated with gay issues ?, what is it that is eating away at both of you with so much hatred and bitterness ?. I admit I don’t know anything about either of you apart from what I have read here but something must have triggered this off within you. Could it be that you have gay children of your own, or within the immediate family, and this is simply something you can’t reconcile in your own mind with your blind adherence to the ‘teachings’ of the Catholic church ?. Or do you only like to believe in the bits that suit you personally. Come to that, I’m now beginning to wonder if you truly believe at all, that you have doubts about your ‘not-so-perfect’ church and this you simply cannot come to terms with. Is that the real reason for your bitterness ?.Yesterday, I spent the day in London at Soho Pride, a huge gay street party, and not just for gay’s but for anyone, gay, straight, religious, atheist, agnostic, anyone in fact, and a better, happy, and more well-adjusted bunch of people you would be hard to find, unlike your yourselves. You two, really should get out more and begin living in the real world. It’s the lifestyle, isolation, and self-indoctrination of the Pope, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and yourselves, that is the real problem here. I look forward to your next rant with the utmost interest.Love and kisses, Alan. XXX

  37. Liam Browne 20 Aug 2007, 9:31pm

    “how to discuss and “dialogue” without resorting to nastiness and name calling”Oh, Patricia, its not nastiness, its the truth. You people are insane. Just listen to that woman with her rant about some triumph of “our lady’s immacualte heart”… for heavens sake, what is that suppose to be about? Is it supposed to be a valid argument??? How dare she assume she knows God’s will! She is nothing more than a small minded person thinking she has an advantage in life that simply doesn’t exist. THAT is the reality of her “statement”, my dear, not intolerance or nastiness.You believe in a witch hunt against people on the basis of a book of old stories. Not one shred of proof for your faith other than “do what I say, it makes me feel better” approach.I’m a scientist. I believe in empirical data: (1) You’re in a gay site ranting against us with some lame ass belief system that is against tolerance and love for your fellow man. I can only deduce you may be a closet homosexual or you have some deep seeded anger management issues. I don’t care which, to be honest (2) You make statements with out proof, about what YOU think God’s will for gay people is. If you know what God wants so well, prove it. Not on some old book, but make a LOGICAL argument. As you can’t, its blind faith. Just because you say its true, doesn’t make it so.So, its just hate bound by a belief system that allows you to do what you do in the absence of conscience. Would you feel so sure of yourself if we went back to the days of burning you folk as witches?Get off your high horse, and cut this “your nasty” crap. Its you pair of bitches that don’t deserve any of our compassion, or respect, for what you do to innocent people! YOU’RE mothers clearly done something wrong in rearing you pair of hateful bible basing twits.

  38. George, Ireland 20 Aug 2007, 10:03pm

    Actually, Liam makes a very good point. Once its was deemed “God’s Law” to burn people for being witches. Its estimated 300,00 people died in this way. Thankfully, this practice was seen as terribly wrong, and has not occurred in 200 years. So, the church CAN change. It HAS to change to survive. What was acceptable 500 years ago isn’t necessarily acceptable now. The church has apologised on numerous occasions, for example, its appalling silence during the horrendous Nazi regime. So, your argument that “participating in a sin which has down through the centuries been condemned by the Church” is nonsense. Why don’t you try to open your mind to explore the diversity of humanity, rather then coming into a site like this and expecting a positive reaction to the “love the sinner, hate the sin” rhetoric. That very statement is conceited, arrogant and very, very wrong. Being gay is not on par with murder. Being gay, whether you accept this or not, is a natural part of nature. Every gay person feels and knows this as true.Are you so blind to change, so stuck on a spiral of hate, that you are unable to at least acknowledge you might be wrong, like it was wrong to burn innocent people?If you can’t, and you only response is the likes of “The Devil is your Best Friend” rhetoric, well, then you simply can’t expect a positive response to that angry bashing. You can’t, nor should you, expect respect from the educated gay community if you cannot address them with the respect and equality they deserve, not the “I’m better than you, sinner” approach. To be closed to new ideas is to be closed to self growth.However, if you actually think people SHOULD have been burned as witches, then Liam is right, these arguments are lost on you, and you should be locked up and have professional attention…

  39. I am a heterosexual man who has been given a link to this site so that I can comment on gay priests. I am not, as someone suggested about non-gay contributers, a closet gay here for titilation. The idea of two men or two women together in intimate fashion does truly disgust me. I know from having read the mostly-hateful comments on this site, against those who oppose the gay lifestyle on Christian grounds, that I have no chance of impressing upon anyone here the absolute necessity of returning to a life of purity for God. However, I must comment on some who are claiming to be gay Catholic priests on here. If this is so, then I have to say immediately to these men that they are in serious error if they truly believe that they can be actively gay and still remain priests in good standing. Putting aside the homosexual question for a moment, it is utterly hypocritical for these men to have taken a vow of chastity before God, to have pledged to give up the world and the carnal pleasures for God’s glory and the salvation of souls, and then to admit that they are proud to be active homosexuals, proud to have broken their vow to God. St. Thomas More once said that when a man takes a vow before God, he holds, in that moment, his immortal soul in his hands. If he opens them by breaking that vow, then he can never hope to find himself again. Therefore, the priest who says he is in good standing while knowing that he sins impurely, whether heterosexually or homosexually, is a liar and knows it. The truth is that any person, priestly or otherwise, who lives a life of impurity without the slightest guilt or remorse before God for soiling his/her body and soul with acts of unrestrained self indulgence, is more to be pitied than scorned. It is so far removed from the lives of the saints and so contrary to the ordinance of God. I bear no bad will towards homosexually-inclined persons, and I am the first to state that God’s mercy is there for all who repent of any kind of impure sin, be it homo or hetero. But the sorrow for offending God must be present. When we die we are judged by God. His mercy ends at the moment of death and only His strict justice remains. He does not condemn us to hell, but merely consigns us to that terrible place if we chose it by rejecting Him and His Commandments in this life. These homosexual priests know this to be true. Therefore, how can they, of all people, possibly condone their behaviour and even go so far as to say that they are proud of it. Perhaps they need to re-read the Epistle in which St. Paul refers to active homosexuals in his time as having been given up by God to a “reprobate sense” who “leaving aside the natural use of women burn with lust for those of their own sex, working that which is filthy.” I suppose St. Paul will get it now for being a homophobe, but he, like all Christians who oppose homosexuality, condemned the act but never the person. Where there is life there is hope, and it is my hope that someone reading this will have a change of heart. I remember once watching an interview with the late actor, Richard Harris, who was asked about his difficulties with the Catholic Church. His response was simply this: “The Church is not to blame for me being a bad Catholic.” Now there was true humility, a man who recognised that he, not the Catholic Church, was at fault. What a difference between this man and these duplicitous priests who proudly betray the sacred office they hold. May God have mercy on them.

  40. William, Dublin 21 Aug 2007, 8:08am

    Martyjo, who said these priests were engaging in sexual activities?From what I read, it looks like they are gay and proud, but nothing about them being active? It is possible to be gay, proud AND celibate. You say you have nothing against gay people, but that’s nonsense, isn’t it? You’re very language, “homosexually-inclined”, and your assumption that all gay people are sexually promiscuous shows your pettiness and hate towards us.Here’s an idea for you, stop reading the rantings of “Saint” Paul, a 2000 year old bigot with delusions of grandeur, and open your eyes to a few realities:- We are born gay. We are not sinners, no matter what you and your dying breed of bigots say. And with your ignorance towards your fellow man, you are not a Christian.You were right on one thing though, you have “no chance of impressing upon anyone” that your brand of discrimination will have any impact on anyone in here, so next timer someone send your a link to a gay site, just go and burn a few books, and don’t bother with the urge to reply!

  41. Patricia McKeever comments on ‘narrow mindedness’…..pot, kettle anyone??? Perhaps she was looking in the mirror when she wrote that line. I don’t mind people having their views – gay or straight – but do we really have to have the name calling and the ‘you will burn in hell’ rants. As I said before, ‘all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god’…perhaps the two Pats would like to be open and proud about where they fall short and we’ll comment on that.

  42. Hateful comments, Martyjo? Yes, I agree. I do wish the religionists on here would stop itGet a grip, boy, if you think that you and your coterie of Gay hating chums can just come on a Gay forum and spout your rubbish and have no comment made on it then you need to get out a little bit more.If you want to preach, go and preach to those who actually want to hear it, I am sure there are still some poor buggers out there who will fall for your tired old rhetoric and venomous lies.People on here are in no doubt of where the the papist church lies, with a pope who insults the muslims, brings back the old service where the jew is vilified, is an ex hitler youth (nicely edited in Wikipedia by the way), denigrates the anglican church and further isolates your church by saying the priests in it are phonies and who certainly won’t be explaining the catholic churches behaviour towards the jews during the second world war.And that’s another thing, how is it possible, for a so-called devout country like Italy, to spawn the Fascist movement when it shelters in its capital, the highest church of christ in the world. How could a so-called man of peace (the highest paid vicar in the world) have let a movement of such hate grow into the monster it became. Where are the words of condemnation from the catholic church, the church which held so much influence in pre war Italy and which could have done so much to avert the tragedy of places like Auswitch and Belsen..Where was your message of peace and love then, same place it is now, non-existent unless you succumb to the power grabbing, fascistic movement which while talking about spreading the message of peace and love actually goes out of its way to spread discord and hatred.Before you come to us preaching your book of hate and mistrust and untruths, get your own house in order. It’s sorely in need of it.

  43. Ok folks, I’ll go away and leave you all to yourselves. Before I go, however, let me just say that I have heard all the hate-spouting against the Catholic Church before. It has been calumniated and crucified, just like its Divine founder, for two thousand years by numerous self-seeking groups and individuals, but it still stands and will stand till the end of time. It condemns immorality of any sort and warns the unrepentant purveyors of such that they will ultimately have to answer in eternity. You all talk of being gay and proud, but remember pride was the cause of the fall of Lucifer, who was the highest angel in heaven but who was the very first to say non-serviam (I will not serve) to God. As regards AngieRS’ rants against God’s Church, it is as well to tell her, regarding Auswitch that many Catholic priests and nuns died there also. Indeed, the famed Marian priest St. Maximilian Kolbe asked the Nazis to condemn him to the salt mines there in order to save a man who had a family. His request was granted, he soon after died in the mines and the man whose life he saved was present in Rome for his canonisation. In addition to this, it may be worth pointing out that the chief Rabbi of Rome during the War, Rabbi Israel Zolli, was so impressed by the concern of Pope Pius XII for the persecuted Jews, and his efforts to save as many as possible around the world, that he was converted to the Catholic Faith and took the Christian name Eugenio in honour of Pius. Many eminent Jews contemporary with Pius XII mourned his passing in 1958. Golda Meyer, later prime minister of Israel, who was representative to the United Nations at Pius’ death, addressed the UN saying “Pius XII was the greatest friend the Jews ever had.” So please, no more repeating of old lies for the salving of your troubled conscience.

  44. Tomas - Wicklow, Eire 21 Aug 2007, 12:48pm

    Martyjo, why is it every time anyone says anything about a religion, you lot all cry “oh, poor me is been persecuted, just like Jesus, bitch, bitch bitch”, but there’s no problem with them ranting “burn in hell queers”. What a pack of f*cking hypocrites you lot are, you make me sick. If you can’t stand up and respect another point of view, then how do you expect other to listen to your own diatribes?Might I remind you, Martyjo, your “CEO” was a Hitler Youth. And you’re preaching on something that has not ONE shred of proof i.e. the existence of a god. So cut the crap that you know what the creator of the universe is thinking, you haven’t a clue. Oh, and when the Catholic Church does something that deserves respect, they’ll get it! Until now, and that’s not coming any time soon with Herr Papa Ratzinger in charge.

  45. Yep, don’t think there would be too many people thanking your church for the Inquisition, except maybe for the sadistic scum who took part in it and the actions of individual priests or nuns in the war is entirely down to the individual bravery of those men and women and stands as a testament to the silence of your church during that time. As for Zolli, seems to say all we need to know about him. Golda Meya? At a time when her state was struggling for survival she’d have had lunch with your devil, or Russia to keep it going just to make sure her country had the wherewithal to survive.And by the way, I’d take a bet that many more of our sisters and brothers walked through the doors of those death camps than nun and priests ever did. But you probably think that’s ok. The nuns and priests were heroes and the Gays and Lesbians deserved it.My rants as you called them were honest questions seeking honest answers. You ignored some entirely and answered others poorly and dishonestly without giving the case fully in regard to Zolli. But that’s a tactic your church is pretty good at. Don’t tell the truth, evasion and scare tactics.You can go if you want, no one is trying to stop you doing whatever it is you want to do. Unlike your church.

  46. Patricia, Jesus has a message for you, he delivered it in his sermon on the mount…”Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again…..Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” I think he said it more concisely with “let he who without sin cast the first stone”. Patricia, deal with your own sins before you look to what you consider others’ sins…this is what Jesus asks of you.And to us gay folk who are repeatedly put upon by the hatred of people who don’t believe in Jesus’ words, we can take comfort in another part of his sermon”Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.'” It seems Patricia and people like here, through her persecution of us, is guaranteeing us a place in heaven, assuming she believes the new testament to be true.peace be with you

  47. Well, thanks for the thought, gummibear, but I personally don’t buy it so I’ll just be thankful for a quick, pain free death and then oblivion. I personally think we should all have stayed with the primates and just looked for ticks and ate bananas. The ability to swing from tree to tree also has its advantages. Ook!

  48. Please everybody stop.You can’t debate, discuss, disagree, argue, talk to these people.They are convinced that all queers are on track for HELL unless we subscribe to their particular brand of religion. If you read some fundie sites from the States be glad that that degree of insanity has only affected a very small minority of Xians in this country. But be very afraid in case it spreads.These people if they can’t convert us would like us out of the way. And despite adherence to free speech, it doesn’t convince me to support those who would destroy who and what I am. Tolerance doesn’t extend to the wholly intolerant.

  49. aprYs…. thankfully we do seem, as a society, to be waking up big time to the realisation that intolerance cannot and will not be tolerated…on many, many levels (prejudice against gays being one of a number of issues when it comes to religion).

  50. Robert, ex-pat Brit 22 Sep 2007, 12:55pm

    Angie, it is well documented that more than 50,000 gay people ended up in the ovens during the Nazi era, helped in part by the church which remained silent. They’d do it again if they had their way with the full backing of ultra right wing conservatives and fundamentalist religious bigots, make no mistake about that. They want us gone which is what homophobia is all about.

  51. god thelondonpaper should have won!

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