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Cabinet minister Peter Hain condemns violent attacks in Moscow againt Peter Tatchell

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  1. MoscowAmerican 27 May 2007, 4:28pm

    No surprise of todays events. Again the mayors office paid skinheads to appear and to punch and throw eggs (all bought by the Mayor). Funny how the police were not interested in arresting the skin heads. Actually there is a law against extremism like being a skin head. Gay has been legal supposedly for 14 years. One of the real and overlooked crimes is the police’s failure to act on behalf of citizens and not protecting the protestors from violence. Kind of like well you disobeyed a city ordinance so everyone has the right to beat you up and kill you. We will not only look the other way, we will encourage, and sponsor it. Not sure but I do believe it is against the law to punch someone and throw items a person in the street. This if obviously not a concern to pay any attention to these law breakers. What if a protestor were killed would that be permitted? Would the skinheads also be permitted to committ an act of terrosim on the protestors. Really, at what point does the skinheads violence to be allowed. Is there a line to be drawn or can they just do whatever they want to the protestors? The good news is that all this was huge bad press again for Moscow with extensive coverage by CNN, The Tribune and all the major media channels.

  2. The Moscow assults were covered by both BBC and SKY, and pictures of both attackers are clear! The Moscow authorities have no excuse as to who they are looking for in relation to the attacks! But are they looking? They took Thatchell and Fairbrass away after being beaten, but left the attackers on the street. Time to ramp up the pressure on Russia via europe and with the G8. We canot allow Russia to treat its gay visitors and its own gay citizens with such discrimination and violence, yet they still wish to command an international position of respect and authority. A right wing agenda will not bring that about!

  3. Why is abuse and open hatred of GLBT human beings acceptable to the world . I despair at the increasing voilence and hatred of us; being promoted and accepted by those in positions of power. I had always thought that GLBT community had silent powers ,if this is the case, I call on those that can make an impact to do so. No more EU grants, no more international loans , no more fashion business , no more health support.I call on my ‘family’ to quietly and silently make a difference.

  4. Ivan Bailey 27 May 2007, 9:50pm

    Alan N – as any regular visitor to this site will know, the answer to your question is “because religion says so.”PS. for anyone who wants to see a video of this incident in Moscow today, the best report is on the Channel 4 News website.

  5. James Russell 27 May 2007, 11:42pm

    Peter Tatchell is a hero of mine, he is someone who ‘walks the walk’ in a period where politics is little more than a bland administration of a global capitalist economy. The capacity for people to demonstrate hysterical hatred in this way appalls me and should be fought at every level.

  6. From what I saw on TV it was a clear physical assault on both Richard and Peter and the police then arrest them!? That’s bizarre!What this does though look like is what happened in NAZI Germany when thugs roamed the streets assaulting Jews and others whilst the police looked on and laughed. Now we see Russia (so called free) doing exactly the same. Disgraceful and time Blair got off his ar*s and said something and did something! Shows you how Gay friendly New Labour really is.

  7. grow up you stupid people!russia is stil an orthodox christian country, you upset them by going therewhat else did you expect?

  8. At least in Moscow people are free to express their opinion. Gays have this irresistible urge to march and protest and make an awful lot of noise. Most people find that annoying and in free countries they are allowed to throw eggs or punches. Get used to it. Being gay is nothing to be proud of. It’s really not a major achievement. Either you’re born with it or pick it up as a bad habit, doesn’t matter, get over yourself, you’re nothing special, no reason for another gay parade, enough already.

  9. Violence shall be punished by force without mercy! Gay vendetta began!

  10. Bob, what are you talking about??? Are you suffering from head trauma or were you “just born with” being dim?Why would an anti-gay person like this fool be in a gay site anyway? What’s wrong, Bob, like the boys but afraid to say so?

  11. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2007, 9:48am

    Kate – are you a halfwit by any chance (“russia is stil an orthodox christian country, you upset them by going there”)? What the fuck are those that didn’t ‘go there’ but were actually born there supposed to do? Live behind a wardrobe like Anne-fucking-Frank or something?

  12. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2007, 9:51am

    And Bob, I ask you the same question, are you a halfwit, (“At least in Moscow people are free to express their opinion”). The ones who got beaten and arrested for trying to hand in a petition don’t seemt to have been that at liberty to express their opinions. Yes, it would seem that moscovites are at free to express their opinions, as long as they are state sanctioned.

  13. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2007, 9:54am

    Well done, Peter Tatchell for again highlighting the plight of others around the world as he has so often done over recent year.While most of us were enjoying the freedoms that the likes of Peter have campaigned for and won for us in this country, he was off trying to ensure a little equality for others elsewehere.Well done mate.

  14. It’s about time, that idiot got a punch in his face… Great going Russia!

  15. I believe that the UN and the British Government should make formal protests to the Russian Government in regard to the violence toward the Gay Parade. Homosexuality was decriminalised some years ago in Russia, these actions by the Mayor of Moscow fly in the face of Human Rights do we again want to be ruled by right wing extremists that rule by violence. We have to stand up for our rights and if in the UK we went back to the 1940/50’s, there was blackmail and homosexuality was a prisonable offence of 10 years or so, and living through that age I know people that went to prison.

  16. I agree with bob and Kate. Non-Russians telling Russians how to live? shame on you peter, shame on you.

  17. Re: Steven ‘Non-Russians telling Russians how to live? ‘ Excuse me..it’s a right wing state and church telling gay russians they cannot live a normal open life, cannot hold a pride celebration! Thats the reason European MEPs and official and gay rights activists wanted to visit Moscow to hand in a petition but they were beaten up by the state and the church, and witnessed by the world via tv pictures. Some still remain in custody. The shame is on the Russian authorities and a shamefull violent bunch of Orthodox church members! Outrage! is the word!

  18. The match was banned to save the organisers from attackers like these. Yet they go on ostensibly to protest the ban, and are surprised at the reaction! Homosexuality is allowed in Russia. You cant force people to like/accept you. The law accepts you. What does a march achieve expect for provocation and irritation?

  19. julian c gallimore 28 May 2007, 1:35pm

    i am shocked putin seems not to have a free police force like zimbabwe,i blam a radicle pop like ratsingerhe has made me think all the time he is stil in love with hitler shame on him.brg’s JULIAN

  20. You don’t have to be so openly gay all the time. Public display of affection is bad manners and it’s especially annoying when gays do it. (I’m ok with decent looking lesbians). If you keep irritating people with your parades don’t be surprised if they get irritated. If you want to be treated as normal people, try to act normal. You could use a little sensitivity training.

  21. Dear Bob,Why are you ON this website?Yours sincerely,Luke – an annoyingly open gay.

  22. Well said Luke! There seems to be alot of non gay/ anti gay comments on here. Clearly the homophobes are getting worried and will use any means at their disposal, even to use sites like Pink News to spread their discrimination. Bring it on! More fuel for the fire that will burn those that spread the hatred!

  23. Dear SirPresident of Taiwan,Sir Chen Shui Ban will conduct a webcam telephone conference in May 29th with NPC USA.Will you join us?Best Regards Steven

  24. It’s been well proven documented that these homophobic individuals are about 100% lightly to be gay themselves. Surely a metal health test to see if they are gay could be arranged and then we could treat there metal health issues when they first develop them from a young age as school bullies?And for older homophobic individuals the metal health test could be an alterative to going to PrisonWhat do you think guys?

  25. Well, Anonymous, we certainly know where you stand. Must be great being able to beat Gays up in broad daylight. How do you manage in the dark, bring your own burning cross? And John? Nice wind up there. 10 out of 10 for presentation though your technical skills need brushing up. 6 out 10. Must be great though, being able to express your anti-Gay feelings on a Gay website. Aren’t you lucky that you live in a Democracy.

  26. Livingstone is a hypocrite. He is willing to condemn the mayor of Moscow, but gives the red carpet treatment to Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi who openly advocates killing gays.

  27. Russian Gay 28 May 2007, 6:50pm

    Most of Russian gays and gay organisations were against this provocation. We should make gay-community by ourselfs (make philanthropic funds for gays, etc.) Not invite some europian activists, who will return to liberal EU, telling how anti-democratic is our country. This anti-russian hysteria only provokes our “patriotes” to say: “Gay people are agents of the West and wants to destroy our traditional life”. Your politics will say polit-correct worlds about democracy on TV, then forget about us. My mother knows that I’m gay. She isn’t homophobic. But she can’t understand why Piter T. went to Russia. “Do he love to be beaten by cops?! It’s silly!” – she asked me.MAIL ME if you want to hear Russian gay’s opinion.

  28. Russian Gay 28 May 2007, 7:02pm

    This provocation only reinforce homophobia in Russia. British goverment certainly should make formal protest, but I don’t think this will change our life. Read my previous comment. Please, mail me: antiduring@yandex.ru- if you want to see the view from Russia.

  29. As a 60 year old gay man from America, I’ve seen lots of changes in the attitudes of society towards gays and lesbians (yes including the B’s and T’s). There have been lots of times I’ve thought that the actions of activists was too confrontational, that they were pushing issues that society wasn’t ready for and that their actions would just make things worse for us. And yes, a lot of times there was a backlash. But I’ve come to believe that these bold, confrontational actions were the only things that elicited progress, gradually making the public more accepting.I know it’s hard to accept this, my gay Russian friends. Many times I’ve been against what gay activists were doing – thinking “this time they’ve gone too far.” But I realize now that without these kinds of actions, we’d all probably still be in the closet.I realize that Russia is a different – and basically more repressive society than the US was 20-30 years ago. But I’m hopefull that this kind of action – painful though it may be – will eventually bring you more progress and acceptance.

  30. Craig, my openly illiterate friend, what exactly is “metal health”? And what is “about 100% lightly”?Is “there metal health” an “alterative” for their mental health? Are you sure you’re qualified to make any statements about mental health (or anything else)? If your name is really Craig, English is probably your first language which means that you could use a few more years in grammar school.

  31. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2007, 8:22pm

    Bob, so you’re “ok with decent looking lesbians”. Somehow I find that incredibly hard to believe. Possibly you’re okay to start with, but I’m sure as soon as you open your mouth any chance of being okay with lesbians goes out the window.Bit confused by the “so openly gay” line as well. Two hundred years I think you’ll find that small minded bigots were using the phrase “so openly black”. It was a bit of a struggle, but undoubtedly worth it. Slavery was abolished and although we aren’t completely there yet we are heading towards equality in relation to race. That only happened because initially a few people stood up and debated, argued and fought for what they believed in, that all men are equal.At the turn of the last century the suffragettes fought against the establishment for equality of the sexes. A hundred years on that fight is nearly complete, but again, this fight was won only with a great sacrifice by a small number of determined people.In the last two decades in this country individuals and organisations have argued the case for equality in relate to sexual orientation. That battle is now all but won but again it will take some years for the effects of legislation to filter through to every tier of our society.Slowly but surely the society in which we live has come to understand and respect diversity. People of different shapes and sizes all bring something different to the table, each has something to offer and should be valued for that. Equality is entrenched in law and discrimination is becoming socially unacceptable. Society has evolved.Clearly you haven’t mate – you’re some sort of throw-back.

  32. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2007, 8:58pm

    Oh, and Bob, please do let me know if there are any typos in my posting.

  33. Sister Mary Clarence 28 May 2007, 8:59pm

    Oooh, and look at me, proving my own point. Finding value in everyone, even Bob.

  34. Mary, you are one twisted and confused sister. As for Craig’s post, there are no typos in there, only some really bad English. He is not very well educated to say the least.

  35. James Russell 28 May 2007, 11:48pm

    Bob, I would like to have homosexual bum sex with you.Love J x

  36. Sister Mary Clarence 29 May 2007, 12:52am

    Bob/Angelica (who I suspect are one and the same), I would never condemn anyone for being poorly educated, ignorant on the other hand is a completely different ball game!Don’t Loaded has some website you can may your foul little posting on instead deriding gay people on this one?

  37. I have nothing against gay people, it’s gay activists I don’t like. I really don’t care if you’re having sex with you brother, the family dog or the kitchen sink. Keep it private and it’s none of my business. Once you take it to the streets it becomes offensive so don’t be surprised if people get offended. Come to think of it, I simply don’t like activists in general. At least not the currently active activists such as anti-smokers, anti-abortionists, anti-war protesters, tree-huggers and so on. I wonder why intelligent people never have the time to march. We could use a movement defending individual freedoms, but no one is willing to do that any more. We have a police state and people don’t care. A morally bankrupt society trying to hang on to religion, political correctness and an oppressive government for guidance. It’s sick out there…

  38. Fred Edwards 29 May 2007, 2:44am

    I don’t really understand the problem. Peter Tatchell went to Moscow once before for an unapproved demonstration, he got thumped then. And he decided to do it again. And he gets thumped again. And this is supposed to be news?Okay, straw man. Seriously though – I agree that the fact that the march went ahead is likely to increase homophobia in Russia, but I think it’s likely to have the opposite effect in Western Europe, due to the way our media has reported what seems to be an excessively violent reaction. But I’m not sure if that’s necessarily a good thing. Why? Because it could cause a diplomatic fall-out, which could in turn lead to racial tensions. But hey – I might be proved wrong.I’m not unsympathetic to gay rights, however, I think the need for racial harmony trumps gay rights every time. Why? Because, despite the deeply entrenched stereotype of “campness”, it’s a lot easier for a gay person to pretend to be straight (or a straight person to pretend to be gay, for that matter) than it is for someone to fake their skin colour and facial features.Well – okay, maybe Michael Jackson was the exception, but personally I find it easier to lie about my sexual orientation and get away with it. (Then again, I think that the people who are obsessed with figuring out whether someone is gay or not are idiots anyway, and I prefer not to spend my time in the company of such people. If I want to change my mind about my sexual orientation, then that’s totally my prerogative, committed relationships permitting.)But I digress. I rank religious harmony above gay rights too. Why? Because religious affiliation correlates closely with language groupings, which in turn also correlates with ethnic origin. Besides, it’s unrealistic to expect everyone to learn English, or Spanish, or Arabic, or any other supposedly universal language.Do we make the mistake of assuming that it’s easier to render the concept of “homosexuality” into different languages than it actually is? Is it not possible that what we judge to be “homophobia” might sometimes be the frustrations born out of a language barrier? I don’t know, but it seems plausible to me – after all, if language barriers seem to create religious disharmony and tribalism, then who’s to say what language barriers can’t do?And anyway, the argument “I’m gay – yes, really! – and you’re a bad person for not respecting diversity” doesn’t cut much ice with me. I think that leading by example is better than wagging sanctimonious fingers.If Sister Mary Clarence honestly believes that slavery has been abolished, then Sister Mary Clarence needs to think again. No disrespect to William Wilberforce and his great achievements, but people trafficking and the sex trade is very much alive and kicking. There’s *still* a lot of work to be done on racial harmony around the world too, it’s disingenious to count it as a success.Indeed, I dare say that as long as third world poverty and war continues to exist, there will continue to be refugees. And as long as there are refugees, *someone* is going to complain about these “bogus asylum seekers”. If the Daily Mail doesn’t do it, then someone else will. And as long as that happens, racial disharmony will also continue to exist. Let’s not allow ourselves to be distracted from this fact.

  39. Sister Mary Clarence 29 May 2007, 10:02am

    Dear FredYou either believe in equality or you don’t. I don’t think that it is something that you can legitimately rank … well I think that type of equality or more important than that one, I like that type best but I’m not so keen on this one.I am constantly disappointed that more people don’t take this view, never more so than having read some of the comments on here.

  40. Gay Russian 29 May 2007, 10:20am

    It’s seems to me, that this discussion turned into wrangle between English gays and English homophobes. Ha-ha! You aren’t really interested in Russian problems. So, why did you send us some silly gay-activist, who will return to UK – and leave us against Russian nazi-skinheads.You’d better go shopping, darlings! For old american gay. American soldiers made protests after Vietnam. And USA army became professional. Our soldiers can protest, protest and protest – with no result. Russian society isn’t democratic.

  41. elizabethveldon 29 May 2007, 1:33pm

    I Quote:I have nothing against gay people, it’s gay activists I don’t like. I really don’t care if you’re having sex with you brother, the family dog or the kitchen sink. Keep it private and it’s none of my business.—I’m getting incresingly weery of the homophobes and religious nutters posting on this site. Why don’t you crawl back under your (obviously hetrosexual) rock?

  42. So Bob think that being Gay is nothing to be proud of. Well ho hum.. lets take a look at heterosexuals…these are the people who’ve fucked up the world, colonised countries against the wishes of the indigenous peoples, subjected many of them to oppression and a whole host of other unspeakable things, Nazi Germany comes to mind among others;they rape women, children; sex trafficking; they are at the root of corruption in governments, commit the most violent crimes in society and fill our prisons to overcrowding and are the ringleaders of religious extremism; the list is endless. Yet, they assume this air of moral superiority, people like Bob, who is obviously proud to be heterosexual.I see nothing to be proud about that. Point taken, Bob? By the way folks, these agitators get off by coming to Gay websites to annoy and frustrate us, but hang in there, we’re better and stronger than they are. But, it does beg the question, what are socalled straights doing on a Gay website anyway? Prurient interest or recovering “ex-gays”, puhhhlllllllllllllllleeeeeeeez!Robert, ex-pat Brit.

  43. William_In_London 29 May 2007, 3:54pm

    People travelled to Moscow from Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and the UK to attend the demonstration and present a letter protesting against the ban on the Moscow Gay Pride, signed by 50 members of the European Parliament. Why? Because Russia is a member of the Council of Europe (which is different to the EU) and a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights. The Moscow Mayor violated the Convention by banning a peaceful protest. The issue is, in fact, bigger than gay rights in Russia. It is about defending fundamental democratic values.

  44. Drag that Madonna out of her london bank and demand a statement. Where the hell is she when we need her.

  45. Sister Mary Clarence 29 May 2007, 5:06pm

    Thank you William for trying to drag this thread a little back into proportion.

  46. Russian Gay 29 May 2007, 6:02pm

    Leave us, Russian gays, with our problems! You only cause damage to us! You are spoilt rich Europeans, using the oil and Earth resources of the other World – and telling others how to live!You became rich and prosperous by colonisation! And now you are talking about human rights! Stop “helping us”, please!!!ABOUT RUSSIAN COPS: they are non-intellectual redneck guys from villages. Certainly, they are homophobic. Redneck farmers in Texas are also homophobic, I suppose. Sorry, if I insult you!—————antiduring@yandex.ru

  47. hey russian gay, antiduring@yandex.ru: Would you prefer your country not allow gay tourists in either? This is bigger than one issue about a parade and as an American i can assure you, there are many of us who diligently fight the texas redneck mentality. We have one occupying the White House currently and it is no picnic for us or the rest of the world.

  48. Russian Gay 29 May 2007, 7:01pm

    Gay tourism (and tourism at all)is not the main income in Russia. The main incomes are: 1) oil and gas, 2) war weapons. So, it’s not problem for Moscow mayor.But some Europian gay tourists (esp, military-BDSM fetishists) often comes to Russia.—About White House and stupid Bush from Texas. USA is democratic counry. Your soldiers protested after Vietnam – and your Army was reformed. Our soldiers may protest, protest and protest – with no result! Can’t you understand? Russia is not democratic country (and so are all countries, except Europe, USA, Canada). For example, South Korea is very rich counry, with hi-tech and great science – and a partner of USA. But South Korea isn’t democratic! It’s half-autocratic with capitalistic economics. And no one thinks about any gay-prides in South Korea or Singapore.

  49. Hey Russian Gay: People like you make it more difficult to be openly gay. There are plenty of people right here in the US that are afraid as well. I recommend you concentrate on who your real enemies are. Good Luck. My thoughts for a better today are with you.

  50. have e-mailed the Mayor of Moscow and copied the Mayor of London Amnesty International and the European Court of Human Rights. HI have pasted a copy below. I feel that as a gay man lucky enough to come from a country and (generall) a continent where gays are accepted – where we can even get married and adopt children – that I have an obligation to object to the treatment of those people in Moscow. I urge everyone around the globe to do it too! E-mail to Mayor of Moscow:To Yuri Luzhkov, I write this e-mail to protest at the disgusting way the police force in Moscow treated gay rights activist in Moscow this weekend. The actions of the police and your own bigoted views have received world wide condemnation and I want to add my voice too. The treatment that Russian citizens as well as MPs and citizens of the European Union received in your city is abhorrent. That your police force stood by while people were attacked and then arrested those same people who is absolutely disgusting. What danger did those wanting delivering a simple letter pose to you, the residents of Moscow or to Russian society? Your own archaic personal views of homosexuality have clouded you political policies – banning Gay Pride in your city for example and stating that homosexuality is the work of the devil. You need to realise that the more you penalise and repress any group of society, the more you make them stronger. Your actions and the actions of the police in Moscow has done nothing but condemn you in the eyes of the civilised world and encourage people from around the world to lend their help in ensuring that Moscow Gay Pride 2008 goes ahead and the rights of gay Russian citizens are improved. Indeed, the Mayors of London (Ken Livingstone), Paris (Bertrand Delanoe) and Rome (Walter Veltroni) have all raised their concerns and condemned the incident. If they, as Mayors of major world cities, can allow Gay Pride events to take place (and prove that society won’t fall apart because of them) why can’t you? What have you got to fear from allowing gay people their right to peaceful protest? I wholeheartedly lend my voice to support not only those 31 people detained by your police force in Moscow this weekend but to every single gay, lesbian, bi sexual and transgender person in Russia. I have copied this e-mail to the Russian Embassy in London, the European Court of Human Rights, the Mayor of London and Amnesty International. I await your response to my e-mail. Yours sincerely, Matthew

  51. Yuri Luzhkov 30 May 2007, 2:04am

    Dear Matthew,I’ve just read a few illustrated books on human anatomy. Guess what I found out: there’s no way for two men to have sex with each other. This proves that the gay movement is nothing but a hoax. You kids are funny….Yuri

  52. If anyone is interested in sending a letter of complaint to the Russian Ambassador (in London).I made this with Joe’s (Gay Times) help.

  53. Yuri (if that’s who you really are), I think your illustrated anatomy books and definitions of sex are a lot different to most of those in the civilised world; maybe that’s why you have all those backward views and opinions…? Ultimately, being gay is not about who we have sex with, it’s about who we love. Why should we be persecuted because of who we choose to love?

  54. Dr. Schmutzenbaum 30 May 2007, 10:21pm

    Anatomy books are pretty much the same everywhere. Maybe you have a special “Gay’s Anatomy”?

  55. William_In_London 31 May 2007, 2:27am

    Dr. Schmutzenbaum… gay people are equal in Britain. Fuck off back to which ever hell hole country you come and leave us alone.

  56. elizabeth veldon 31 May 2007, 5:47pm

    how hillarious!Ars*holes post, you all react and get draged off the subject.People whare atacked and then arrested while their atackers where alowed to go free – that’s the issue. That and why this was – well basicly because they’re Queer.ASnd one other thing: we in the West make money off oil? And Russia dosn’t? Russia dosn’t cut of energy suplies to anyone that disn’t agree with them in the dead of Winter? I remember something in the Bible about not commenting on the mote in your Brother’s eye without casting out the beam from your own or, to put it more susinctly, people in Glass Houses shouldn’t throw protesters into Jail.

  57. Illiteracy must be a serious problem in the UK. Elizabeth, you’re even worse than Craig. Get help.

  58. elizabeth veldon 1 Jun 2007, 5:53pm

    if you have nothing better to do than make comments about people spelling and punctuation then perhaps you should go and have Carnal Knowlage with yourself.Come back to the debate when you can do so as an adult not as a child.

  59. Sister Mary Clarence 3 Jun 2007, 11:28pm

    Oh f..king hell Bob’s back with his f..king spell checker again to add some salient points to the debate, or f..k me no, he’s just here to piss people of with his spelling references.Bob, you’re about as welcome as a bastard at a family reunion, so can I suggest that if you haven’t done so already you fu …. go away and marry your sister.Yuri, I’m having a little trouble following much of what you have to say, as my mind keep wandering to Borat (strangely).

  60. I would kick you twice.

  61. After he’s got hit he didn’t behave like a man (which is understandable), but started yelling like a pig – “Someone protect me, someone protect me”. If you come to the different country which has it’s own mentality and national identity, behave accordingly. We didn’t come to the UK and teach the English how to live and would appreciate if you treat us the same way.

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