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Councillor denies smearing gay Lib Dem

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  1. Sister Mary Clarance 13 Sep 2007, 3:28pm

    Could some of those who came out so strongly in the comments page on the pinknews decision to accept Conservative ads care to comment on the Labour tactics used to discredit a gay opposition councillor.I’m thinking the boot might have changed feet a little here.I trust she will lose her seat and her job.

  2. Well said SMC. Quite happy to play the homophobia card if there’s votes in it.Unjustly calling a man a paedophile can destroy his life. If guilty, I hope her life is ruined in the way she intended for him.

  3. Bill Perdue 13 Sep 2007, 10:47pm

    If the accusations against Miranda Grell are largely true then she’s a sow who should be driven out of politics. Using these sadistic smear tactics is shameful and unlawful. GLBT members of the LP, and all parties ought to mount a campaign to kick her, if she’s guilty, and anyone else who has a history of antigay bigotry out of their parties. If local and constituent groups had a petition to this effect to vote on then the question could be raised at conventions. If it wins and the bigots are booted out that will change the internal life of the parties for the good. If not then maybe we need to consider building an independent left of Labour party. There is some sentiment to do that because of Blair’s pathetic role as Bush’s lapdog in the oil piracy in Iraq and more than a few trade unions are getting very tired of the deals LP makes with the ruling rich at their expense. Such an effort will of course lead to the removal of other LP politicians, but could end up annihilating the leadership of the Conservative Party. Perhaps some good soul will volunteer to draw up such a petition and get it circulated. How about it, Sister Mary Clarence, are you up for it?

  4. This foul woman would be more at home with the Tories, I hope Labour give her the boot. She’s a disgrace to her party.

  5. Robert, ex-pat Brit 22 Sep 2007, 4:25pm

    What we need in the UK is the U.S. equivalent of a Larry Flynt who digs up the dirt on straight politicos and others who vote for antigay legislation. Its one thing for Peter Tatchell to out right wing religious bigots in the C of E and I’m an ardent supporter of Peter’s, but we need someone in the style of Larry Flint to hold them all accountable in both parties for their doublestandards, hypocrisy and bigotry. Maybe this would purge the parties of these evil people.

  6. That punishment is nothing. As well as trying to destroy his life, she effectively misled voters. How is that not fraud?Has the deputy mayor for London condemned her yet? Mind you, as Livingstone is happy to court rabid homophobes like Yusuf al-Qaradawi, I won’t hold my breath.

  7. “This foul woman would be more at home with the Tories …”Well Michael she wasn’t a bloody Tory was she, she was, as reported here, a Labour ‘high-flier’ and a disgusting homophobe.If her running mate at the local council was aware of it, perhaps we should be asking how it escaped Nicky Gavron, the Deputy Mayor. Is this attitude typical of the staff she employs and it this type of behaviour condoned or encouraged by her?Nicky Gavron’s office has been tainted and brought into disrepute. I feel she should do the decent thing and step down too.I hope also that the Lib Dem guy goes on to win his seat back. Speaking to people I know who have worked in the borough, by all accounts he was a very hard working local councillor and a nice guy.

  8. Doubtless this disgusting woman will pull the race card to get her off!She has no place in politics.

  9. Sister Mary Clarence 24 Oct 2007, 12:34pm

    “Those of us who campaigned with Miranda in 2006 remember nothing but a happy, vibrant and exciting local election campaign that energised the Leyton community and parts of the ward that had been abandoned for years.”I take it that they do not include her Labour running mate in the council elections, Nicholas Russell, who told Waltham Forest magistrates that Ms Grell’s attitude was “disgusting.”In court she admitted telling a voter that Mr Smith is gay and has a 19-year-old boyfriend, which was relevant because …..Mr Grell in actual fact had a 39 year old boyfriend, so does the admission by her own foul mouth that she said he had a 19 year old boyfriend not constitute “making a false statement of fact about Mr Smith’s personal character or conduct,” contrary to election law.

  10. top of the shot 24 Oct 2007, 1:29pm

    If this woman had been a member of the Conservative Party, just about every labour member including Mr Livingstone himself would be calling for their explusion from the party.But what do the Labour Party offer – nothing as usual. Whether it be homophobic remarks or cash for honours, Labour fail to act, but blame everyone else except themseleves.She has been found guilty. As usual dont do as I do, do as I say.Surely, she has broken the Code of conduct for Local Government employees.

  11. Readers might be interested in some of the background to the case that was included in the press release from “Justice for Leyton Ward.” 10 KEY POINTS ABOUT THE CASE AND TRIAL OF MIRANDA GRELL1. Miranda Grell was elected in a shock victory as a local Labour councillor on the May the 4th 2006 in a ward held by the Liberal Democrats for 25 years. Miranda Grell polled 1427 votes. The other two successful candidates in the Leyton ward were Liberal Democrat Naheed Qureshi, who polled 1443 votes and Liberal Democrat Bob Sullivan who polled 1424. Cabinet Member for Community Safety and Policing Barry Smith polled 1399. The nearest candidate in the poll to Barry Smith was Labour’s Simon Wright who polled 1245.2. Leyton ward’s population is 64% Black and Minority Ethnic according to all official indices. The two largest ethnic minority groups inhabiting the ward are people from the Pakistani and African Caribbean communities. Out of the ten candidates who stood for election in Leyton ward at the May local elections, Naheed Qureshi (who is of Pakistani origin) and Miranda Grell (who is of African Caribbean origin) topped the ballot, coming 1st and 2nd, respectively. Naheed Qureshi and Miranda Grell were the only Pakistani and African Caribbean candidates to stand for election in Leyton ward.3. Despite Leyton ward’s high proportion of BME residents, all of the Leyton ward residents who gave evidence against Miranda Grell in her trial were white.4. Liberal Democrat Naheed Qureshi was a new candidate at the local elections in May 2006. Bob Sullivan had been a Leyton ward councillor 26 years and Barry Smith for four years.5. Barry Smith’s vote fell by 95 between 2002 and 2006, but his fellow Lib Dem councillor Bob Sulliva’s vote fell by 128.6. During Miranda Grell’s trial in September 2007, Barry Smith said that until June 2006 he had “never been physically attacked (by strangers) before”. However, Grell’s defence counsel Paul Williams told the court that this was incorrect and that Barry Smith had indeed been attacked before. Mr Williams made reference in his cross examination of Mr Smith to two articles that appeared in the Waltham Forest Guardian in 2003 – see: and 2005 – see: In court, when questioned by defense counsel Paul Williams, Mr Smith said that the 2005 article was “for publicity”. The 2005 article also made reference to Mr Smith having been “held at knife point” in 2002.7. During Miranda Grell’s trial, Mr Smith said that a campaign over the closure of a local Library had been a factor in his defeat.8. Mr Smith only reported Miranda Grell to the council funded ‘Alert’ hate crime service three months after the May 2006 election despite telling the police in his formal police statement that he had become aware of a smear campaign being run against him by Miranda Grell “in the run up” to the May election. Mr Smith was the local councillor who set up the Alert hate crime service, in his role as Cabinet Member for Community Safety and Policing.9. Grell’s Labour running Nicholas Russell said he heard her making “disgusting homophobic noises” towards their other running mate former Councillor Simon Wright but, in his testimony to the court, Simon Wright – an openly gay man and high profile gay rights campaigner, who is secretary to the national “Labour Campaign for Lesbian and Gay Rights” – said that he had spent a lot of time with Ms Grell during the election campaign and if it had ever come to his attention that she had behaved in the way described by Mr Russell he would have reported her. Simon Wright said he never heard Ms Grell say any of the things she was accused of.10. During the trial, Barry Smith said he felt uncomfortable about people knowing he was gay because he felt he would be viewed as “unprofessional”. Giving her evidence, Ms Grell responded that she felt insulted by Mr Smith’s remarks and her gay friends would feel insulted by Mr Smith’s remarks too.

  12. Sister Mary Clarence 24 Oct 2007, 2:09pm

    Editor rests his case for the defence ….

  13. Brett Lock 5 Nov 2007, 10:26pm

    Bottom line: She ADMITTED to telling people that Smith’s boyfriend was a teenager when she knew he was actually almost forty!You’d have to have blinkers on not to believe that this wasn’t a deliberate attempt to play to homophobic prejudices.Next we’ll be asked to believe that she was actually paying Smith a complement!

  14. Sister Mary Clarence 6 Nov 2007, 9:07am

    That’s exactly it Brett and I’m sure she was well aware of how well comments like that would sit with the Pakistani and African Caribbean communities, which as the Editor pointed out were the significant majority.I wonder how the New Labour Get-Miranda-Out-Of-Jail-Free Action Team are going to spin that. They’ll probably end out giving all the local magistrates a peerage each to sort it out.

  15. It does appear as though the race card is being played.It’s a pity that this extract hasn’t been matched by the opposing case. There are holes in it that were probably exploited in the trial: it seems strange that these people would rehearse it all again as though to shout out the opposition.Having gay friends is no guarantee against playing to people’s homophobia; working with LGBT people doesn’t suggest that yoiu don’t hide homophobia from them, or at least that tactic.It feels like a rapid scrabble around to muddy the waters and smear the complainant and his witnesses

  16. Sister Mary Clarence 27 Nov 2007, 6:25pm

    No doubt the appeal has been funded off the back of dodgy party donations and will be heard in front of some recently knighted (cheers Gordon) judge.How the f**k can she appeal when she admitted in court making a false statement, just not the one she was accused of? Although she probably said so many things to so many different people she could hardly keep track.Well done at least to Nicky Gavron for sacking her. Oh no, f**k me she’s not been sacked, she’s only been suspended – what exactly do you have to do to get the sack from the Labour Party these days?

  17. Does anybody know what her defence is, feel sorry for the Barrister stuck with that case.

  18. Sister Mary Clarence 27 Nov 2007, 11:48pm

    David – there can be no defense for what she did. She destroyed that guy’s life. He will be the subject of malicious speculation until his dying day, and long after.

  19. Bill Perdue 28 Nov 2007, 1:15am

    This case is a nearly exact parallel to that of the infamous Conservative bigot Willows except that like most right-wingers when cornered he backed down a little. But only a little. Willows, instead of attacking Liberal Democrat and fellow Councillor Paul Elgood said that all gays except Elgood were paedophiles. Pink news reported that ‘Mr. Ledward (James Ledward, publisher of Brighton magazine G-Scene,) told the court that Paul Elgood asked Willows, “Why are you saying all gay men are paedophiles? Mr Ledward said Willows replied “they are.” He (Ledward )then asked Willows, “You know Paul is gay, do you think he is a paedophile?” Mr. Ledward told the court that Willows replied, “I know he’s not, it’s all the other gays.”Hate speech should is a criminal matter because of its direct and unquestionable connection to harassment, discrimination and violence. “Paedophile” in particular is an emotionally loaded charge. When it’s repeated endlessly and combined with other forms of prejudicial propaganda it leads to harassment, abuse and often violence, even if not immediately. Hate speech emboldens violent thugs and creates a political atmosphere that ends in violence. Although masked by religion the bigotry of Williams, Akinola, Ratzinger Der Pope, Paisley or Bush are ultimately political acts. Bigotry is the ultimate divide and rule tactic to defend the status quo and has many forms – gaybashing, misogyny, racism, and class prejudice. When their rule is questioned reactionaries, conservatives and right wingers habitually haul them out and begin using them in earnest. My own opinion is that the penalties for hate speech should include harsh jail time and confiscation of all their assets without compensation to pay for anti-bigotry programs and to compensate the victims of bigots. This is especially important if the hate speech occurs in conjunction with physical attacks. Examples would be the concerts of hatemonger’s like Jamaican reggae performers Beenie Man or Buju Banton, the BNP’s racist campaigns or the attacks of Paisleyite thugs. And for lesser criminals like Willows, if his guilt is sustained the penalties should include forced reeducation and confiscation of their assets. And as I said in connection with the accusations against Miranda Grell if they’re proven true then she should be driven out of politics. Using these sadistic smear tactics is reprehensible.

  20. The hypocrisy of the labour party is disgraceful.And on an article about Labour party bigotry, comrade Bill manages to…..start ranting about the Conservatives! Plus the usual side swipes at Catholics, Church of England, the USA, “right wingers”, and those nasty Northern Ireland politicians etc etc.As Sister Mary points out, this has effectively destroyed this man’s life. The “no smoke without fire” rumours will stay with him for some time to come. This case, even if he’s innocent, is how he will be remembered. Being called a paedophile is the worst thing a man can be accused of. It goes way beyond making derogatory comments about someone being “queer” (which is an attack on all of us).

  21. V.T. John Martin 28 Nov 2007, 8:37am

    You poor misguided punks, talk about hate speech. No, you can bet, I’m not of your ilk. Through out just about everything I have read by you numb sculls, You are the Biggots. You can not stand Religions because they have values that sinners like you can not uphold, because you are so far into the Devils trap that you can not see your way back to reality. You are sick, and that is a reality. Pedafile(pederast)A so called man who violates a child. Defend the Bastard!

  22. V.T. John Martin:thank you for that example of hate speech. It contains everything to be expected from certain religious fundies: illiterate, ungrammatical, spiteful, offensive, insulting, and all without actually saying anything substantive.Why do these people insist on intruding into places they’re not wanted, and then object when we fight back?

  23. Robert, ex-pat Brit 28 Nov 2007, 1:18pm

    apYrs, V.T. Martin is another Hank in our midst, or maybe they are one and the same. I’ll say it again as I’ve said before, they come here because they can’t shake off the gay since prayer didn’t work (praying away the gay is a mantra of the ex-gay ministries). They envy us! They rant here because they know they’re losing the cultural war. They should retrench back into their caves from whence they came!

  24. William - Dublin 28 Nov 2007, 3:48pm

    Well, what amazes me is that Hank and people like V.T. John Martin (whatever that name is supposed to mean), they all have appalling grasp of English. What is all that about? They type like 4 year olds on a V-Tech laptop.Mr John Martin would be better advised to put down the bible and read a good broadsheet newspaper.Oh, and I’m sure you can appreciate the irony of religious and illiterate morons like you, Mr. Martin, who condemn everyone else, being upset that someone else would possibly condemn you lot. Boo fucking hoo…

  25. John, what the hell are you on about? No one here has ever defended a paedophile. We’re condemning slandering an innocent man with that tag.What’s so difficult for you to understand?

  26. Hey Robert….apYrs, V.T. Martin is another Hank in our midst, or maybe they are one and the same. I’ll say it again as I’ve said before, they come here because they can’t shake off the gay since prayer didn’t work (praying away the gay is a mantra of the ex-gay ministries). They envy us! They rant here because they know they’re losing the cultural war. They should retrench back into their caves from whence they came!Robert, ex-pat Brit | 11.28.07 – 1:18 pm | # No…when I post something I use myname — so don’t be connected me withanybody else.Also after I finish reading God Delusion by Dawkins, I’LL BE BACK!will have some interesting topics todiscuss with you.See you,saint Hank

  27. Bill Perdue 28 Nov 2007, 7:49pm

    Little Lord Lukie, it’s a discussion about gay bashing political slander.It’s a widespread problem and those who honestly oppose gay bashing and the harassment and violence it promotes will oppose it across the board.

  28. William - Dublin 28 Nov 2007, 8:08pm

    Luke, I wouldn’t bother with him, he’s a lost cause. His illiterate keyboard rants are proof enough of his lack of understanding of the basics of the English language. Bill wouldn’t know a logical argument if it got up and fucked him in the ear…

  29. Awwww Hank darlin’ you’re reading the God Delusion possibly one of the most entertaining books I’ve read this year, you’ll love it might even make a good honest atheist out of you, there’s hope for the old boy yet.

  30. Sister Mary Clarence 29 Nov 2007, 2:40am

    Bill, why don’t you go and play in the road (that’s English for freeway btw) – you and your twatty comments are really not welcome here.There is a vast chasm between the world we know in Britain and the one you think you know. Ironically though its us that are always wrong. You are a complete f**kwit and you talk utter shite. Yet again, story about something other than you, yet through careful engineering you make sure the comments become all about you.

  31. Bill Perdue 29 Nov 2007, 3:30am

    Mother Superior, anti-Thatcherites are always going to be here to wreck you day. Get used to it. It’s your shallow minds and squalid pandering to Conservative bigots that sets you up for a fall every time. And get used to Conservative bigots being exposed. There are so many of them it’s an embarrassment of riches. You, the Dublin Dunce and your racist friends are dinosaurs (that’s English for Conservatives). You just don’t know you’re dead yet.

  32. William - Dublin 29 Nov 2007, 5:26pm

    Well, Bill, thank for that superbly written and utterly nonsensical dribble. Marvellous demonstration of what someone with no education can achieve by banging their ape knuckles on a keyboard. I assume you haven’t gotten that passport yet and are still scratching around that swamp you live in to see what you can find for dinner?I am in full agreement with Sister Mary, you ARE a complete fu*kwit. And a sad one at that. Given the obvious lack of education, disturbingly poor awareness of the world, and unbalanced emotional outbursts, I would go one step further to suggest that you possible have some mental illness, perhaps a mental age of a 5 year old, or a history of acute head trauma.Care to share what’s wrong with you Bill? Come on, we might pity you if you tell us… then perhaps we can help you put rational statements together without your usual brand of demented and emotive bile spitting.You are a pathetic excuse for a person, Mr. Perdue.

  33. William, I tried to ignore the halfwit, but as you and Sister Mary have confirmed, it’s easier said than done!I’m sure many would prefer not to see these bloody minded exchanges, but the onus is on Bill not to post rubbish, rather than the rest of us not to point this out.I don’t see why he should be allowed a free ride to express his bigoted nonsense.

  34. William - Dublin 29 Nov 2007, 6:20pm

    Luke, I know what you mean. I will not be called a “dunce” or a racist by an illiterate fool like Bill, so I agree, why should we have to endure his dementia. With a bit of luck the webmaster will ban him and we can all get back to sharing opinions on things that matter.

  35. Robert, ex-pat Brit 29 Nov 2007, 7:52pm

    William, I also think cretins such as Hank et al should be banned. By the way, check out the link below regarding the latest on ex-gays here in the U.S. by Wayne Besen.

  36. Sister Mary Clarence 29 Nov 2007, 11:10pm

    William, Luke – its got to be inbreeding, its the only thing I can think of. It probably took generations to achieve, but I think Bill is as much evidence as anyone could need that its wrong to f**k you sister.

  37. Hey Robert…What’s this all about?You sound like Hitler…banningcertain individuals…groups…pretty soon you’ll be wanting toeuthanize Christians….sounds likeyou’re losing “tolerance” inyour objectivity — shame on you!William, I also think cretins such as Hank et al should be banned. By the way, check out the link below regarding the latest on ex-gays here in the U.S. by Wayne Besen. besen.htmRobert, ex-pat Brit | 11.29.07 – 7:52 pm | #

  38. William - Dublin 30 Nov 2007, 8:40am

    Speaking of in-breeding, Sister Mary, I see that other American buffoon and “man of science” is back… the one who’s name has a uncanny rhyming with the word “wank”. Him and Bill should get together and swap scientific “facts” and banjo songs.

  39. Papa Veritas 30 Nov 2007, 9:56am

    Well, all I can see on this site is a few intelligent Europeans, and a bunch of dumb ass Americans.Americans. Is there any country with more stupid people? They are a prduct of fear and a lack of schooling, and their only outlet for this fear is to rant as if they speak for their impotent god. Yet they all think they know about the world they never visited outside what they see on Fox. People like this Hank and this Bill, should remember, its better to be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.Get off this site yanks, you’re a nation of fools and small minded cowards.

  40. Oh sure…but when you need us duringWWII ….we come to help and whipthe Germans for you.You’re an ungrateful group of peole…not the British…but younarrow-minded homosexuals…you havenothing else to gripe about exceptyour sexual behavior and how misunderstood you are.GROW UP…. and stop making such idiotic comments as the one below.saint HankWell, all I can see on this site is a few intelligent Europeans, and a bunch of dumb ass Americans.Americans. Is there any country with more stupid people? They are a prduct of fear and a lack of schooling, and their only outlet for this fear is to rant as if they speak for their impotent god. Yet they all think they know about the world they never visited outside what they see on Fox. People like this Hank and this Bill, should remember, its better to be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.Get off this site yanks, you’re a nation of fools and small minded cowards.Papa Veritas | 11.30.07 – 9:56 am | #

  41. While I don’t agree entirely with Papa Veritas, he makes a good point: “its better to be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.”This saying is no more apt then applied to people like you, Hank, who have limited education, limited experience, but think they’re smart enough to quote twisted religion as supposed scientific fact. You have already proven yourself to be a fool. Now, why don’t YOU grow up, and fuck off. This is a gay site. For gays. This is not an American site, or a Christian site, or for those who’s grasp of the world is limited by inferior education and dogma. We have no interest in your stupid comments or your troglodyte religion.

  42. Robert, ex-pat Brit 30 Nov 2007, 1:22pm

    Saint Hank, you idiot, America had no choice but to get involved in WW2. Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese you moron. Britain was fighting alone for two years before your country ever thought about “helping”. In fact, the majority of Americans were against getting involved. You know nothing about the last world war. Have you heard of the Battle of Britain? Fought in the air in 1940, the turning point in the war. Had Britain not won that, you would probably be speaking German or Japanese today. America did NOT win the war alone, it was a collective effort on the part of Britain, the commonwealth and other freedom loving nations as well as America. It was in your countries own interests to get involved you idiot.Further, and I’m sure most Americans don’t know this, but Britian repaid every penny back to America with interest as a result of the Marshall plan, the only country to do so.

  43. Robert, ex-pat Brit 30 Nov 2007, 1:27pm

    William, check out the link below. It points out all the absurd statements in the bible that religious nutters such as Hank, Tom et al and all the other self-loathers and “ex-gays” deliberately ignore.www.fallwell.com

  44. That’s an interesting site, Robert, it’s nice to see a site that is claming that god hates us, or other such biblical nonsence. I like the line “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.” How true, but lost on the likes of Hank, who not only can’t see the wood for the trees, is in the wrong forest in the first place!

  45. opps, meant to say a “site that ISN’T claiming that god hates us”…

  46. Sister Mary Clarence 30 Nov 2007, 2:47pm

    I’m liking Papa Veritas already, however I would point out that to be fair I don’t think that Hank et al are in any way representative of American’s in general. If just very unfortunately that is the real f**kwits seem to be drawn to this site.If any of the many sane and rational Americans would like to post a few comments it would be good to see and would help water down the bile that appears to be flowing from some quarters on the other side of the Atlantic (that’s the sea that separates North America from Europe, Hank) at the moment.

  47. Robert, ex-pat Brit 30 Nov 2007, 3:08pm

    William, yes, its an invaluable website. I use it as a resource whenever people like Hank et al go on a tirade with their antigay bigotry via religion. Some of the extreme right wing christian fanatics try to evade the references saying….”well, that applied to the Jews, not the christians”. So be forewarned. I advise anyone on this site to use http://www.fallwell.com to combat the religious bigots of every persuasian.

  48. Jesus himself, never even mentions homosexuality in the New Testement.Bearing in mind what we know about him, it’s probably reasonable to think that he would have approached the subject of gays, with love, kindness, compassion and understanding and not the hell fire damnation that you can find in the Old Testement (along with some other weird stuff which the gay bashers curiously choose to ignore).I really can’t see Jesus picketing the funerals of dead American soldiers, preaching hatred or actually stoning us to death as assorted religious nutters seem to want. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Sounds fair to me.If there is a God, them it’s up to him (or her) to judge us when we all die. And any self-righteous, arrogant pillock who thinks they can take over the role of Jesus and God on this earth, can take a running jump.

  49. Hey Luke:YOUR COMMENT;Jesus himself, never even mentions homosexuality in the New Testement.Bearing in mind what we know about him, it’s probably reasonable to think that he would have approached the subject of gays, with love, kindness, compassion and understanding and not the hell fire damnation that you can find in the Old Testement (along with some other weird stuff which the gay bashers curiously choose to ignore).I really can’t see Jesus picketing the funerals of dead American soldiers, preaching hatred or actually stoning us to death as assorted religious nutters seem to want. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Sounds fair to me.If there is a God, them it’s up to him (or her) to judge us when we all die. And any self-righteous, arrogant pillock who thinks they can take over the role of Jesus and God on this earth, can take a running jump.MY COMMENT:Sure Jesus Christ didn’t talk about every sin there was — pornography,child abuse, drug addiction, etc.He only taught as an adult for 3 years. That’s why he had disciples –to do His work after he was murdered.When Jesus confronted a sinner, hespoke kindly and forgivingly and said”Go and sin no more — your sins areforgiven.” He did not say, “Ok I heard you,go continue living your life as youalways did.”He died for sinners, so once they knewtheir sins, they could change and livewith Him in heaven forever.No Jesus would not picket funerals — those professed Christians are inerror and will pay for their sinfulbehavior.I’m not casting stones…I’m telling you to read what Jesus says…he was and is Perfect and whatever He saysis the perfect answer — the Gospelso to speak. Don’t be afraid tostudy Jesus Christ — not some supposed Christian religion that islead by imperfect mankind. Jesus Christ is the only answer — not a religion.Read the Holy Bible and see whatJesus said while He lived on thisearth. You might learn something andlive a righteous life and join Himin heaven. It’s your choice!saint Hank

  50. I cannot really understand why some of us are engaging in this sort of debate. Surely, trying to defend ourselves as GLBT against people of faith is a bit like trying to argue, with astronauts, that the earth is flat. To me the only question that matters is this: do people of faith have the right to impose their beliefs and codes on the rest of us, especially those who don’t share their beliefs? The answer, quite simply, is “No”. Arguing with people of faith diverts our attention away from the issues that really matter: equality, fairness, compassion and justice for all.

  51. Can I just say I keep visiting this site hoping for discussions on gay issues and everyday, without fail, I see all this time wasted by gay clever people arguing with religious creeps and it’s so boring. Quite frankly can we move on and concentrate on the issues that do matter to GLBT people. And Luke mate, I don’t give a flying fuck about your views and I don’t imagine for one second you care about mine or anyone elses on this site, so take a bit of advice sweetheart, your coming across as a creepy bastard and you need to move on.

  52. Sister Mary Clarence 30 Nov 2007, 7:33pm

    “Bearing in mind what we know about him”. That would be nothing in reality then. He could have had bad breathe and riddled with syphilis for all either you or I know.There is talk that Jesus could have actually been gay himself and there do seem to be some pointers that may support this. In this day and age anyone that hadn’t married at his age, hung around almost exclusively in the company of other men, had a kind and forgiving nature, and joined the church would certainly be having an accusing finger pointed at him. Couple this with the fact that he seems to avoid the using of the ‘gay’ word in the Bible (all the alledged references have a more likely alternative meaning), it all starts to look very suspicious.I’d take a long hard look at your beliefs Hank. And if I were you, I’d go somewhere else while you’re doing it.

  53. Allan, anything in particular offending you? I wouldn’t have thought that arguing with Bill and posting a few fairly innocuous comments would bother anyone.

  54. Robert, ex-pat Brit 30 Nov 2007, 8:31pm

    “There is talk that Jesus could have actually been gay himself and there do seem to be some pointers that may support this. In this day and age anyone that hadn’t married at his age, hung around almost exclusively in the company of other men, had a kind and forgiving nature, and joined the church would certainly be having an accusing finger pointed at him. Couple this with the fact that he seems to avoid the using of the ‘gay’ word in the Bible (all the alledged references have a more likely alternative meaning), it all starts to look very suspicious.I’d take a long hard look at your beliefs Hank. And if I were you, I’d go somewhere else while you’re doing it.”Sister Mary, this is probably why the Vatican in particular refuses to allow biblical scholars to review the manuscripts in its possession under lock and key, manuscripts that painted a very different account of Jesus, sexuality and women. It begs the question, if the Vatican has nothing to hide, then why not make these manuscripts available to the experts for interpretation? I suspect that what is contained in those scripts could turn christianity as we know it on its head.

  55. Hey Mary:YOUR COMMENT:There is talk that Jesus could have actually been gay himself and there do seem to be some pointers that may support this. In this day and age anyone that hadn’t married at his age, hung around almost exclusively in the company of other men, had a kind and forgiving nature, and joined the church would certainly be having an accusing finger pointed at him. Couple this with the fact that he seems to avoid the using of the ‘gay’ word in the Bible (all the alledged references have a more likely alternative meaning), it all starts to look very suspicious.MY COMMENT:By the way…would that make all his disciples gay? Wouldn’t they havequestioned his “strange mindset” in regards to his male and female relationship? Or was he a “closet” homosexual? If so, was he ashamed that indeed it was a sin (though Hecould not commit a sin) You havea dilemma on your homosexual theory.YOUR COMMENT:I’d take a long hard look at your beliefs Hank. And if I were you, I’d go somewhere else while you’re doing it.Sister Mary Clarence | 11.30.07 – 7:33 pm | # MY COMMENT:All you do is make innuendos, hints, insinuations, but no facts.Come on — give me something “written in stone,” — notjust your “wishful” thinking.By the way “sister” I’ve asked you before — where, when, why, how, didyou acquire the “sister” title?Unless you give me a legitimate answerI’ll think you’re hiding something andwill refer to you as “sinister” Maryin the future.saint HankFollowers of Jesus Christ are called saints — so I have a legitmate title.

  56. Hey Allan:YOUR COMMENT:Quite frankly can we move on and concentrate on the issues that do matter to GLBT people. And Luke mate, I don’t give a flying fuck about your views and I don’t imagine for one second you care about mine or anyone elses on this site, so take a bit of advice sweetheart, your coming across as a creepy bastard and you need to move on.Allan CSN | 11.30.07 – 7:32 pm | # MY COMMENT:Hey Allan:What kinds of issues matter to you?I’d like to discuss other topics too.saint Hank

  57. My advice Allan is don’t be drawn in by Hank.And Hank, hanging out with a gay person doesn’t necessarily mean you’re gay. Its not catching. God only chooses very special people and makes them gay.SMC – you missed a trick there, you should have written that last posting in stone, numb nuts would have taken it as gospel (pardon the pun) and he might have shut up.I’ve had a read through all the comments and everything seemed to be going fine until the mad Marxist started with (as SMC would say) his utter shite. I’m as fucked off with it as luke seems to be.

  58. As for Ms Grell, she’s a sub-human piece of sh** in my book. as has been said she has ruined that guy’s life

  59. Bill Perdue 30 Nov 2007, 9:23pm

    Conservative Thatcherites, Paisleyites and those suffering from severe cases of internalized homophobia like to debate superstitious bigots because it’s safe. One of these right wing trolls named Rob Neal says “there is no such thing as a ‘gay community’. Just a bunch of selfish men that get sex any way they can and frankly don’t give a damn about anyone or anything else.” I’ve no doubt that he has a very difficult time finding sex partners but his condemnation of all of us is bigotry, pure and simple. Rob Neal goes on to say “If people aren’t moaning about inequality, then they seem to need to shout just to continue to get attention. ‘We’re here, we’re queer’ Yeah, and frankly, nobody gives a flying toss.”By quarrelling with christian bigots they can enter the world of make-believe, where they heroically joust with the bad guys and can at least pretend to be doing something. Then they can avoid issues like bigoted firemen, bigoted Conservative politicians, the fight for full equality, the suppression of bigots, same sex marriage and the need to do all we can to help protect GLBT folk in places like Iraq, Iran and Nigeria, where our people are being murdered day and night. These people are moving to the right at a pretty fast clip. Right now they’re in the process of crapping on the floor before they leave. Be patient.

  60. Sister Mary Clarence 30 Nov 2007, 9:42pm

    Allan I do take your point about the constant arguing on here (and I note you laced it with a slight compliment regarding clever gay people), but having been on this site for quite some time and endured slaggings off from the likes of religious nutters like Hank and also from complete head cases within our own community who damn those who don’t follow a very narrow Marxist gay ideology and having watched countless people hounded off this site as a result of this type of behaviour, my tolerance is all but exhausted.I wouldn’t passively endure someone hurling insults and abuse at me in the street and I wouldn’t stand by and watch it happen to someone else either. Sometimes I think it is necessary to stand up and challenge people when they express views that you find offensive and I think its hugely positive that a number of people are now supporting each other, rather than just sitting back and not getting involved.Everyone should be able to post comments in relation to articles published on this site without fear of attack and ridicule from others. Clearly some of us can be as vitriolic as those people I am complaining about, but I think you sometimes have to be.Others wishing to post comments are maybe not so able to defend themselves and I don’t think that anyone should be afraid to post comments for fear of the backlash from individuals with a very twisted view of reality.I am certainly very grateful for the support I have been given by individuals like Luke, William, Steve and a number of others. I’ve no doubt we don’t agree on many things, but I think we probably do agree that certain people do need to be held to account for their behaviour on this site.Apologies (from me at least) if in so doing we are pissing you off. Unfortunately though with posting like the last one from the mad Marxist I can’t contain myself.Bill my simple little friend, the story is about a LABOUR councillor that was found guilty of making false statements about a LIB DEM councillor. The f**king Tories don’t feature in this story AT ALL. Ms Grell, a fully paid up member of the Labour Party accused this poor guy of being a paedophile and it appears as a result he lost his seat and was run out of town.Rather than the Labour Party distance itself from the vile hag, they’ve had a whip round to mount an appeal. In light of recent events the appeal is more likely being funded from illegal donations to the party, which is embroiled in one of the most serious scandals to hit British politics in years. The furore from the last scandal having only just died down after they were caught selling peerages – although I understand that the police investigation is still very much alive and kicking. Apparently the Met is asking for more resources to help fund the extra officers needed to investigate all the corruption in Downing Street.I’m not entirely sure how firemen, Christian bigots, Thatcherites, Paisleyites, same sex marriage, Iraq, Iran or Nigeria fit into any of this, but hey, when has that ever stopped you?

  61. Sister Mary Clarence 30 Nov 2007, 9:44pm

    Steve(2), Ms Grell, she’s a sub-human piece of sh** in my book as well

  62. Hey Robert, Papa Veritas:YOUR COMMENT;Americans. Is there any country with more stupid people? They are a prduct of fear and a lack of schooling, and their only outlet for this fear is to rant as if they speak for their impotent god. Yet they all think they know about the world they never visited outside what they see on Fox. People like this Hank and this Bill, should remember, its better to be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.Get off this site yanks, you’re a nation of fools and small minded cowards.Papa Veritas | 11.30.07 – 9:56 am | #hank | 11.30.07 – 12:11 pm | # MY COMMENTHey what’s this “Papa” title? You say we’re a nation of fools andsmall-minded cowards.Since our nation was founded over 300 years ago. can you give me a list ofthe cowardly acts we’ve committed since then? PLEASE LIST THEM…I’MNOT SURE WHERE WE’VE BACKED OFF FROM A FIGHT ACTING AS COWARDS.I’m sure Great Britain has never committed any cowardly acts…RIGHT?RobertI never said “we won the war”. OK our President Roosevelt and our government waitED 2 years before getting involved with Hitler. Our nation had recently come out of WWI and our people didn’t want to getinvolved in another war unless it wasa threat to our country. So wewaited until Churchill and Roosevelt concluded Hitler was a worldwide threat. So we came in. Now you’re trying to lay a guilt trip on us because we waited….PLEASE!I’m reading The Rise and Fall of theThird Reich, by Wm Shirer, and agreethat the Battle of Britain was a very important air battle but certainly not THE TIDE CHANGING BATTLE. There’s a lot more fighting and decisions that were critical. Some very stupid ones by Hitler — who overrode his commanders (who were better judges of what would work).And then Japan attacked us, so we had no choice but to be totally involved in WWII.Are you saying that all the supplies, food, equipment, etc. that we gave to you didn’t make a major contribution to ending the war? So you paid us back…if we hadn’t gotten totally involved in the European war, I think Britain would have paid us in deutschemarks.It was indeed a multi-country victory– even the anti-christ Russia helped out.So when anybody calls the USA cowardly — make sure you know what you’re talking about. We had…so weshared…and we still do…worldwidecatastrophe’s — we’re flying essentials ASAP…and our Christian organizations are doing their share also.Think good thoughts.saint Hank

  63. Hank, After the disaster at Dunkirk, Britain was offered peace terms by Hitler. Not great for sure, but we wouldn’t have been occupied (unlike most of the rest of Western Europe) and we could have concluded a costly war both in terms of lives lost and financial cost.Instead we kept on fighting. Which looked a suicidal decision bearing in mind Hitler’s armies had swept all before them and invasion looked imminent. Any peace terms imposed after our surrender would have been far harsher than those offered after Dunkirk.Britain (and her allies) kept on fighting a war we could not hope to win. All we could do was keep it ticking over until the USSR and USA were dragged in.But just imagine, if we had made peace with Hitler after Dunkirk. With no war in the West, Hitler could have used his full force against the USSR. Who knows, he may even have had new allies who could see which way the wind was blowing. Germany came close to defeating the USSR while fighting Britain, the USA and USSR at the same time. Fighting only the USSR, there is every chance they would have won.So where exactly would the USA have been with Germany in complete control of nearly all Europe and a hostile Japan (with German backing) ready to take on the USA?Not a nice position for them at all. Perhaps the USA should be saying “thanks” for Britain continuing the fight with no chance of victory in sight.Oh, and let’s not forget. The USA screwed us financially after the war, when we were exhausted and near bankrupt from nearly 6 years of fighting.

  64. Sister Mary Clarence 30 Nov 2007, 11:39pm

    “Now you’re trying to lay a guilt trip on us because we waited” I think checking back Hank, you bought up the war in the first place.Has that loose screw finally fallen out?

  65. Steve:YOUR COMMENT:And Hank, hanging out with a gay person doesn’t necessarily mean you’re gay. Its not catching. God only chooses very special people and makes them gay.But Steve…if Jesus was gay, did why did He “hang out” with 12 non-gays (disciples) only Why didn’t He make some of them gay — they were VERY SPECIAL PEOPLE, weren’t they?Or why didn’t Jesus talk abouthis “gay friends” telling the disciples homosexuality wasn’t a sin or a problem. He told His disciples the deepest truths for mankind…so why didn’t he talk about his “gayness” that it was a choice –that people shouldn’t be ashamed ofit?Why did he remain a “closet” gay?Your rationale doesn’t make sense –why wasn’t Jesus truthful?Jesus cannot lie…nor deceive…nordefraud…nor be misleading…nor fool people. NO, NO, NO.If Jesus would have been gay — he would have said so unequivocally — so if He didn’t say it, He wasn’t.So don’t keep trying to refashion sininto non-sin. — it’s nonsense!Read the Holy Bible — different translations, use Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible for deepermeanings of words and phrases.Don’t be afraid to get to know theReal Jesus Christ — don’t be swayed by various preachers, evangelists,or whatever — and don’t only readRichard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens– to them all gods take on the same values. Whether it’s Zeus, Thor, Basal, Vulcan, Vishnu or theGod of the Bible, there is no difference in their eyes.They conclude that all gods have been humanly contrived to accommodate the social and psychological needs of man.Jesus Christ told His disciples over 2,000 years ago that, as timewent on, the masses would be deceived by many claiming to be His true representatives — that the vast majority of the world’s religions andleaders would be COUNTERFEITS. The result is that millions of people have been deceived by Satan the devil — the real ruler and god of this age.There’s still time for you — it’s not too late, but when you die…it’s over and you lost!saint Hank

  66. Hey Luke:You may not accept the followingbut it’s called The Miracle At Dunkirk. The evacuation of the Allied armies was a “miracle” that kept theBelgian Army, the B.E.F and French First Army being utterly destroyed.On May 24, an order from the HighCommand, issued at the insistence ofHitler that the tank forces halt onthe canal line and attempt no further advance. This furnished Lord Gort anunexpected and vital reprieve whichhe and the British Navy and Air Forcemade the most of and was later considered “to be one of the greatturning points of the war.’By the time Hitler changed the orders on May 26, the cornered enemy had had time to strengthen defences and behind them was beginning to slip away to sea. Hitler never realized the meaning that the sea-minded British could evacuate a third of a million men from a small battered port and from the exposed beaches right under the German’s noses. An armada of 850 vessels of all sizes,shapes and methods of propulsion converged on Dunkirk to do this miraculous event. It’s a fantasticevent in the history of warfare.You probably won’t go along with myfeeling, but God is sovereign — nothing happens unless God permits it.So I attribute Hitler’s stupid order in this situation as God’s intervention for doing good and preventing evil. It was a miracle –good for us, bad for Hitler.There were many other miracles in this war — I give the glory to God — not to happenstance!Be wellsaint Hank

  67. Bill Perdue 1 Dec 2007, 3:50am

    One of Mothers Superiors favorite pastimes is fearless repartee with idiots like ‘Hank”. It’s not just counterproductive and wasteful; it actually empowers the little creep. He’s in his glory when he finds dupes like Mother Superior, the Dublin Dunce and Luke to banter back and forth with. Hank and Mother Superiors friend Rob Neal need to shut up and take their meds. Mother Superiors other pastime is indulging his antique theory that his wealth entitles him to tell working people what to do and what to think. He pictures himself as an aristocrat and he and his little clique constantly try to dictate what can and cannot be discussed. When they fail, as they always do, they relapse into infancy and throw pathetic little hissy fits. Until some one tells us that Mother Superior has been appointed Royal Censor we’re going to treat his antidemocratic bilge with the contempt it deserves.

  68. Enough , you’ve all made it clear that this is your own little ego trip debating society . So mates get on with it . I for one will get my gay news elsewhere.Pink News advertisers take note .I can’t be the only gay man who tires of the same few people constantly posting on these pages . It’s boring.It become like some verbal circle jerk.Bye boys enjoy yourselves.

  69. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Dec 2007, 11:05am

    Hank, “but when you die…it’s over”. Has the penny finally dropped then. When you are dead, it IS over. I’m glad you’ve realised that, no heaven, no pearly gates, no little angels sitting on clouds.Be everything you can in this life mate, its the only one you’re going to have.

  70. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Dec 2007, 11:09am

    Allan, thank you for your contribution. Its been a blast, you’ll be missed.For information though, you don’t actually need to enter the comments section of the site to partake of the news stories contined herein and the comments section contains no advertising (as I’m sure advertisers are aware), so probably not such a big issue for them what goes on here as it clearly is for you.

  71. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Dec 2007, 11:47am

    “…. his wealth entitles him ….”Bill, haven’t we already discussed your presumptions and the accuracy of them.Those that use this site regularly will no doubt be aware of your, well lets say – slightly – off message views on British/Irish/world politics.You have accused me of being a white imperialist reminiscing over those heady empire days when Britain ruled the waves and had a stranglehold over the commonwealth, sucking all the wealth out of down trodden peoples. However the reality turned out to be that I am black, my family are of African origin and despite your assumptions to the contrary, we like most people who ultimately elect remain part of the commonwealth are actually very grateful for the benefits it has brought, but again no sense in muddy the water with facts.Now you’re at it again. Wealth? Where the f**k has that come from? You may come from a place where only the wealthy are articulate and have access to a computer, but thankfully I live in a country where education is open to everyone and there are opportunities for those who want to learn to do so. Again are these comments borne out of total ignorance of life in this country. I have no intention of laying open my finances on this site to contest your arguments about whether I am wealthy or not, but what money I have I work for and I suspect I have no more or no less than the average working person using this site.Yes I will be voting Conservative, because I am sick to death of Labour’s lies and corruption. New scandals are coming almost daily now and coupled with the appalling maladministration we are seeing, to me it is clear that they have to go. It would seem that this fact draws you to conclude I am the local squire, riding round (central south east London?) horsewhipping serfs and taking tea with the Prince Regent no doubt.If that’s what you want to believe that’s fine. I’ve got better things to do than justify my income to you – we’re clay pigeon shooting this afternoon with the Camerons and I’ve got drinks at the Carlton Club at 7.

  72. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Dec 2007, 1:35pm

    Saint Hank whoever the hell you are, blah blah blah!!! In case you’ve forgotten, the USA didn’t enter WW1 until the tail end of 1917, the war was over by 1918. To digress….check this out….www.fallwell.com and see if you and all your fellow jesus freaks are living up to everything your favorite book of fairytales is telling you. I doubt if there is one among you!

  73. Hey sinister Mary:YOUR COMMENT: Hank, “but when you die…it’s over”. Has the penny finally dropped then. When you are dead, it IS over. I’m glad you’ve realised that, no heaven, no pearly gates, no little angels sitting on clouds.Be everything you can in this life mate, its the only one you’re going to have.Sister Mary Clarence | 12.01.07 – 11:05 am | # You don’t understand my comment–when you die, it’s over with thislife — but that’s not to say whathappens throughout eternity withyour soul.For you and other evolutionists and atheists, you hope that go back tothe slimy, swamp filled with amino acids from whence you came.BIG MISTAKE:You don’t get away that easily. Thereis a judgment day when you will answer to what you did on this earth.Unfortunately for you and yours, you have rejected the God of the Universe and instead have accepted the god ofthis earth fo follow. BIG MISTAKEYour eternal existence after you dieis eternal torment (forever, not just50 to 50,000 power years)Because you have chosen hell, you’ll get your wish. But you are totallyunaware of what hell is, you are living in denial,refutation, rejection of finding a life worthliving — you poor pathetic souls.But it’s not too late. Ask JesusChrist to come into your life and makeyou a new person — He can still do it while you’re alive and willing toaccept Him.Otherwise you’re destined to an eternal existence that is more painful than you can ever imagine.You can pass this all off as nonsensefrom a deluded mind…but in truth, you’re the one being deluded, deceived and destroyed by the god ofthis earth — your god — satan — and he truly hates you and wants todestroy you.Jesus Christ is the only answer if you want to change — not and ex-gay group, not a religion, nothing that isman created.I’m hoping some homosexual who reads this and is unhappy with his lifestyle and wants to change — willfind there is hope — look to JesusChrist for your answer and He willgive it,saint Hank

  74. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Dec 2007, 3:50pm

    Hank, running with the far fetched theory that something exists after this life and their is some sort of judging panel of system vetting us to determine where we cross over to ….I’m picturing it at the moment, Popeye, Elvis Presley and Peter Ustinov (for arguments sake). I have no doubt that even though I haven’t worshiped your prophet or following the teachings of the Bible, they would judge my life favourable.You may need someone else’s moral code to guide you through the judgements you must make, but I do not. Within me, as within everyone, there is a moral compass. Mine works fine, yours probably would too if you let it.

  75. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Dec 2007, 3:57pm

    Hank, nobody ever came back from the dead to say it was otherwise and there’s no proof that Jesus Christ was divine either. What a waste of life and energy believing in something you can’t see, can’t hear, can’t prove ever existed. So until you and your rabble can prove it to the contrary, take your book of fairytales, hypocrisy and contradictory statements and shove it up where the sun never shines or flush it down the toilet. Both would be appropriate. When you’re dead you’re dead, moron.

  76. Hank, no one here cares. No one here wants to listen to some mentally challenged fool like you. So, just fuck off. Seriously. Fuck off. You’re boring, exceedingly repetitive (christ, are you repetitive!), and unashamedly uninteresting.What could you possible hope to gain by being in this site? Nothing. So, unless futility is your thing (and somehow, I doubt this is the only futile thing in your life), run along and have a chat on a suicide site.

  77. Hey Robert:YOUR COMMENT:When you’re dead you’re dead, moron.Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.01.07 – 3:57 pm | #

  78. Hey Robert:YOUR COMMENT:When you’re dead you’re dead, moron.Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.01.07 – 3:57 pm | # Can you prove that?My Holy Bible says you’re wrong — what do you have to prove your point?Give me factual data PLEASE — notyour opinion or supposition.When you’re dead — you’re dead fromthis life you moron — not fromthe life hereafter. Which book didyou get your information from?saint Hank

  79. “But it’s not too late. Ask Jesus”Jesus, this, jesus, that… jesus blah, blah, blah. Well, I am praying right now for Jesus to shut you fu*cking up. Why don’t you take your jesus and ram him up your backside where you might get some pleasure out of him.Folks, we just need to agree to ignore this Hank buffoon. You wouldn’t talk to a fool like this in the street, why bother to talk to him here. Hank is a deluded and small man, with no power in life other then to come in to this site and talk with the intellectual prowess of a coma victim. His wife, if he has one that’s not his sister, probably beats the crap out of him and he probably has some small dead beat job like behind the counter of a McDonalds. I know its easier said than done, but his statements are mindless, and don’t deserve our efforts.We cant rely on the webmaster to make any effort here to block him, so we must ignore him ourselves. He’ll go away soon enough.

  80. Hey Robert:Please tell me, after you die…does your body (you apparently don’thave a soul)…does it all go backto the slimy swamp filled with aminoacids and lightening cracking around?Do you really think you go backto where you came from?If not, please tell me where you camefrom in the earliest days of formationof people like you?Hey…I’m serious…where did you comefrom and where do you go afterwards?Do you have a scientific answer that’s provable?Or do you live by faith in something that you can’t prove — life can never be started in a scientific setting, so how do you know how itstarted? You’ve taking it on faith!My faith gives a hopeful, joyful afterlife — sorry about yours!Thanks,saint Hank

  81. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Dec 2007, 5:56pm

    I’m in William

  82. wil thompson 1 Dec 2007, 6:55pm

    It says in the bible that God cures people of diseases and heals people. But why don’t amputees get new limbs when they pray?

  83. Hey William:YOUR COMMENT:Well, I am praying right now for Jesus to shut you fu*cking up. Why don’t you take your jesus and ram him up your backside where you might get some pleasure out of him.Come on William — use some respectfullanguage, cursing and foul mouth talkmakes you sound like a retard who doesn’t have command of proper experession. DON’T BE NASTY.ROBERTS COMMENT: Hank, nobody ever came back from the dead to say it was otherwise and there’s no proof that Jesus Christ was divine either. What a waste of life and energy believing in something you can’t see, can’t hear, can’t prove ever existed. So until you and your rabble can prove it to the contrary, take your book of fairytales, hypocrisy and contradictory statements and shove it up where the sun never shines or flush it down the toilet. Both would be appropriate. When you’re dead you’re dead, moron.Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.01.07 – 3:57 pm | # WRONG WRONG WRONG.The Holy Bible is filled with personswho came back from being dead. I can personally say, YOU’VE NEVER READ THEHOLY BIBLE, and have never studied itto the point of checking out all theexperts who read Latin, Hebrew andGreek and state that the early writings are authentic.No your closed mind has it all answered even though you don’t know anyting about it. You have a one sided mindset — you life a half-life of reality and no desire to know what the other half-life consists of. Youare prejudiced, deceived, and lost and the sad part is you don’t even acknowledge it — because you can’tyou’re too far gone to consider ancient history–from Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus and Zeno, religions byIsis, Mithras, and Christ.No to you…all ancient writings arevalueless, except when you start picking out only those which suit yourbeliefs — and ignore other provenwritings that disprove your beliefs.No Robert old boy…you’re a phony…you don’t sit well with meas far as having a deep, meaningful discussion. Your mind is blindedand you don’t even know it. You’veevaded my sincere questions with yourstupid, insipid remarks —evading myquestions of your provable point fororigination of life to begin with.I’m still waiting… where /how did your life orgininate? PLEASE –give me a provable, scientific answer. Sleep well,saint, Hank

  84. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Dec 2007, 7:46pm

    Hank, go f–k yourself excessively! PROVE TO US THE EXISTENCE OF GOD, asshole!

  85. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Dec 2007, 7:47pm

    Hank, f–k you, your bible and your belief system, cretin!

  86. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Dec 2007, 7:49pm

    William, 101% support you! I think we should all IGNORE the idiot, he’s f–ked enough!

  87. LOL! It thinks its deserves respect! It doesn’t realise that boring stupid people don’t deserve respect. How sad for it.Now folks, hows the recruitment going? I’ve recruited another 34 young boys who are now gay. I offered them sweets laced with gay saliva to convert them… that’s 535 conversions this year alone, I feel like Jeebus himself! I’m telling you, you can’t buy a Pet Shop Boys CD or a DG pair of jeans for miles of my house! By my calculations, if 10% of the world is gay, if every gay person touches one straight person every day with our super gay recruitment mind control powers, we can have the whole world gay in exactly 3.5 days.

  88. Robert, ex-pat Brit 1 Dec 2007, 9:21pm

    William, I can’t find any Prada, Armani or Valentino in any of the stores either. Oh and there’s a huge shortage of quiche because straight men don’t eat it so they say.

  89. Hey Robert:YOUR COMMENTS: William, 101% support you! I think we should all IGNORE the idiot, he’s f–ked enough!Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.01.07 – 7:49 pm | # ——————————————————————————– Hank, f–k you, your bible and your belief system, cretin!Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.01.07 – 7:47 pm | # ——————————————————————————– Hank, go f–k yourself excessively! PROVE TO US THE EXISTENCE OF GOD, asshole!Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.01.07 – 7:46 pm | # MY COMMENT:Thanks for your brilliant intelligentresponses to my question about whereyour life originated.From analyzing your comments I canfully understand your intellectual level.– what’s wrong with you?I ask a simple question: wheredid your life orginate — and lookat the answers you give me.FOR SHAME….I’m figuring out a framework foryour mindset for your worldview — and I’ll be writing it up and tellingyou and yours WHERE YOU CAME FROM…WHAT YOU THINK…AND WHERE YOU’LL END UP.Your worldview is rather simplistic and not difficult to understand.But it’s an interesting mentalchallenge — so you’ll hear fromme after I do my researxh.Sleep wellsaint Hank

  90. It’s still talking. Blah blah boring jeebus is a bitch blah blah.

  91. Hey Robert:You deny that Jesus Christ was devine:authentic written material states the following ;What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can’t do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people…blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects…created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature…walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I’m telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you’re seeing,I know you won’t accept this or anything I offer, but it’s simplybecause you’re blinded to the truth.YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH even whenit’s written ages ago. But only a “fool” says there is no God. even when it’s backed by archaeological discoveries.No Robert you poor fool — your mindis closed to any truth that doesn’t fit your worldview. Sleep wellsaint Hank

  92. Hey WilliamYOUR COMMENT: It’s still talking. Blah blah boring jeebus is a bitch blah blah.William | 12.01.07 – 10:27 pm BRILLIANT CONTRIBUTION — yourintelligence shows through clearly.Keep giving me comments that let’sme see your IQ.saint Hank

  93. Ha Ha Ha! Now its in full sanctimonious rant mode… fire and brimstone upon thy head… ohhh, scary. How delightfully Gothic and retro. A poor dumb American swamp cretin trying to scare people with superior intelligence and superior education.What a sad little man it is. Its wife/sister must have slapped it around again tonight.

  94. Hey WilliamYOUR COMMENT:Ha Ha Ha! Now its in full sanctimonious rant mode… fire and brimstone upon thy head… ohhh, scary. How delightfully Gothic and retro.A poor dumb American swamp cretin trying to scare people with superior intelligence and superior education.What a sad little man it is. Its wife/sister must have slapped it around again tonight.William | 12.02.07 – 12:40 am | # MY COMMENT:I judge your IQ at 69.Can you please attempt to make ameaningful addition to discussinga worthwhile topic instead of running off at the mouth with insipid words?Surprise me next time.Sleep wellsaint Hank

  95. Allplease believe me, you can’t debate with the fundies. THeir mind set is that the bible is the whole truth (despite its logical flaws).You canpoint out the derth of independent evidence, you can point out that none of it is contemporaneous, you can point out the dislocation betweeen the gospels and the pauline re-interpretation. You can even point out that their faith was cobbled together by power-hungry priests and politicians.But it does no good. So you do what you do when you encounter the weirdo who talks to himself: edge away and hope they don’t follow you; ie ignore them, don’t respond to them.

  96. William - Dublin 2 Dec 2007, 11:59am

    Oh, isn’t that sweet. Its trying to bate me into a fight by trying to insult my intellignece. Just like a school yard bully. And Like a school yard bully, its generally stupid as shit, and doesn’t listen to reason, and the origins of its bullying is probably becasue its father abused it.How fucking pathetic.I not engage debate with fools, nor do I take any stock in their judgements.

  97. ANSWER ME!What are dinosaurs? They’re lies, that’s what! They don’t exist.What are gays? Also lies. Don’t exist.Evolution? Lies – Do I sound like a monkey? Things I don’t understand?LIES. LIES. LIES.Science? Only the science of christianty is true.And I am one of the peoplewho knows the difference betweenbad science and good christian science. That’s because Jesus made me clever. Clever and not gay.What am I?A sinner. Yes. Like you.A stupid son of a prostitute sinner. Yes, my mother was s sinning whore.But I’ve been saved!Oh, YES.Satan tried to make me read books,but Jesus stopped him.YOU PEOPLE:With your degrees and better lives.Think you have it all.Well, I’m better. I’m smart.Fuck you Robert. Fuck you sinister mary.Fuck you Luke and William.Fuck you queers.God hates you.He loves me.Through Jesus, I pray for your souls.When Jesus condemns you to hell,then you’ll see who is the smart one.ME! I will be in heaven,with my repentant mother — you seeJesus will forgive whores,but not you!You’re all monsters!save yourselves now, it’s not too late. Pray for jesus.he saved my mother. he struck down my raping drunk father. He saved me from the boys that beat me.He saved me from queers.He made my sweet, sweet sister.he saved me from books.Sleep wellsaint hank.

  98. Sister Mary Clarence 2 Dec 2007, 1:03pm

    lol

  99. LOL! Classic.I like this new Hank better!

  100. Brilliant Hank!! Beyond parody One of this site’s classic posts.Incidentally, I’m disappointed that Robert gets 2 “Fuck you”‘s but I have to share mine with William.

  101. Ooops, I misread. Robert and Sister Mary get one expletive each, but I have to share with William.

  102. Sister Mary Clarence 2 Dec 2007, 3:57pm

    Well getting back to the updated story in hand. The vile hag has lost her appeal. That really has made my day.I hope the Lib Dems can scratch together enough money to pay for him to suing the f**king arse off the poisonous bitch. He should also sue the Labour Party for vicarious liability too. She was acting under the Labour Party banner and at least one other person (her running mate) knew that she was making false statements.I’ll happily chip in a tenner.

  103. Robert, ex-pat Brit 2 Dec 2007, 4:49pm

    Hank, you should be so lucky that anybody would want to f–k you, you’re mind has been f–ked over so many times hanging on every verse in the bible with the odd foray into gay porn sites to break up the boredom. See anyone you liked? Get a life, motherf–ker, the rapture will never happen!

  104. Willy:I appreciate your high praise ofme, but I have to lower yourIQ to 45 1/2.Whoever wrote the last comment usingmy name — they say imitation isthe sincerest form of flattery — I dobelieve you love me but don’t havethe courage to say it openly.Oh…apyrs…I’ll get to shortly –have some more important things todo — like take a nap.Be well everybody…talk with you soon.saint Hank

  105. Hank – what an unfortunate name – is very seriously mentally ill, and he should be confined to a lunatic asylum

  106. HEY apyrs:YOUR COMMENT : …. none of it is contemporaneous.Do you mean all ancient writingsare valuless? See the below chart. Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability The New Testament is constantly under attack and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. But, if the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writing. Because the copies are so numerous, they can be cross checked for accuracy. This process has determined that the biblical documents are extremely consistent and accurate. There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity. Author2 DateWritten Earliest Copy Approximate Time Span between original copy Number of Copies Accuracy of Copies Lucretius died 55 or 53 B.C. 1100 yrs 2 —- Pliny 61-113 A.D. 850 A.D. 750 yrs 7 —- Plato 427-347 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 yrs 7 —- Demosthenes 4th Cent. B.C. 1100 A.D. 800 yrs 8 —- Herodotus 480-425 B.C. 900 A.D. 1300 yrs 8 —- Suetonius 75-160 A.D. 950 A.D. 800 yrs 8 —- Thucydides 460-400 B.C. 900 A.D. 1300 yrs 8 —- uripides 480-406 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1300 yrs 9 —- Aristophanes 450-385 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 10 —- Caesar 100-44 B.C. 900 A.D. 1000 10 —- Livy 59 BC-AD 17 —- ??? 20 —- Tacitus circa 100 A.D. 1100 A.D. 1000 yrs 20 —- Aristotle 384-322 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1400 49 —- Sophocles 496-406 B.C. 1000 A.D. 1400 yrs 193 —- Homer (Iliad) 900 B.C. 400 B.C. 500 yrs 643 95% New Testament 1st Cent. A.D. (50-100 A.D. 2nd Cent. A.D. (c. 130 A.D. f.) less than 100 years 5600 99.5% As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000. Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the first century. If Jesus was crucified in 30 A.D., then that means that the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the first century that contest the New Testament texts. Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing. This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a first century document. Below is a chart with some of the oldest extant New Testament manuscripts compared to when they were originally penned. Compare these time spans with the next closest which is Homer’s Iliad where the closest copy from the original is 500 years later. Undoubtedly, that period of time allows for more textual corruption in its transmission. How much less so for the New Testament documents?Important Manuscript Papyri Contents Date Original Written MSS Date pprox. Time Span Location p52(John RylandsFragment)3 John 18:31-33,37-38 circa 96 A.D. circa125A.D. 29 yrs John Rylands Library, Manchester, England P46 (Chester Beatty Papyrus) Rom. 5:17-6:3,5-14; 8:15-25, 27-35, 37-9:32; 10:1-11, 22, 24-33, 35-14:8,9-15:9, 11-33; 16:1-23, 25-27; Heb.; 1 2 Cor., Eph., Gal., Phil., Col.; 1 Thess. 1:1,9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28 50′s-70′s circa200A.D. Approx. 150 yrs Chester Beatty Museum, Dublin Ann Arbor, Michigan, University of Michigan library P66 (Bodmer Papyrus) John 1:1-6:11,35-14:26; fragment of 14:29-21:9 70′s circa200 A.D. Approx. 130 yrs Cologne, Geneva P67 Matt. 3:9,15; 5:20-22, 25-28 circa200 A.D. Approx.130 yrs Barcelona, Fundacion San ucas Evangelista, P. Barc.1 If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament’s reliability is far greater than the others. The Christian has substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents than he does for any other ancient writing. It is good evidence on which to base the trust in the reliability of the New Testament.Please commentsaint Hank

  107. Awwww yay she lost the appeal how lovely…and hank baby, you need help, they offer therapy to people afflicted by religion now you know they dont just lock you up anymore.

  108. Name Neville 2 Dec 2007, 6:49pm

    Hank is now exhibiting all the signs of religious mania and is indeed in a sorry state.

  109. Ha ha! It thinks because something has been proven to be written many years ago, then it is true. What a gob shite! Its father much have fucked it real good when it was small!Tell me more about your sinning prostitute mother…

  110. Hey Robert:YOUR COMMENT: Hank, you should be so lucky that anybody would want to f–k you, you’re mind has been f–ked over so many times hanging on every verse in the bible with the odd foray into gay porn sites to break up the boredom. See anyone you liked? Get a life, motherf–ker, the rapture will never happen!Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.02.07 – 4:49 pm | # MY COMMENT:You poor lost soul — you sound sofrustrated and angry…I have to feelsorry for you…and so does Jesus Christ.I also feel sorry for the English people. England was one of the countries most used by God for500 years.Now, in 2003 only 6% of England’s population identified themselves asChristians.Present figures show that in the UKbible believing Christians now accountfor less than 3 persons in 1000 population.You had the following great Christians:John Wycliffe, Wm Tyndale, George Fox,Wm. Wilberforce, Wm Carey, Hudson Taylor,Joy Wesley, George Whitefield.Even though you now are atheists, I thank you for all those great Christians –I still study some of their works.Unfortunately, the USA is no longera Christian nation — we’re following in the dying footsteps of the UK.I look for judgement to come to ournation soon in the form of a hugecatastrophe — unless we have revival, I look for God to give uswhat we deserve. While I pray formercy, I ask to understand God’sWill — and accept whatever Hedelivers — it’s His Perfect Answer,whether we like it or not.England too will receive properjudgement for your sinful behavior andrejection of God of the Universe.Sleep well,saint, Hank

  111. Robert, ex-pat Brit 2 Dec 2007, 7:32pm

    Hank have you ever wondered why the UK has so few believers? Because of religious fanatics like you, you’d turn jesus christ off big time. Sick in the head. When did you last get laid? Or maybe its never!

  112. HEY ROBERTLyour comment:Hank have you ever wondered why the UK has so few believers? Because of religious fanatics like you, you’d turn jesus christ off big time. Sick in the head. When did you last get laid? Or maybe its never!Robert, ex-pat Brit | 12.02.07 – 7:32 pm my comment:No the reason UK has so few believersis because of people like you — antichrists who’ve destroyed a greatcountry’s heritage.Sex is always on your mind — perhapstotally. Getting laid is no big deal.Even people like you can get laid whenever you want. PLEASE…

  113. Steve (2) 2 Dec 2007, 8:23pm

    I’d happiliy give ten quid to see her sued as well (and twenty to see her hung)The labour party should be ashamed of themselves for supporting her. I await with interest Ms Gavron’s response.

  114. Saint Hank 2 Dec 2007, 9:36pm

    YOUR COMMENTS:Are all smart and funny.MY RESPONSE:Christianity is dying, yeah.So what? I’m still here. Still ranting! But jesus lives in me. Oh, yeah.He sure does.You can have him inside you too!You too can experience my joy,all you have to do is leavebehind the content lives you have worked sohard to make. Leave behind the acceptance you build around you.Leave behind the inner peaceyou gained when you came out. Leavebehind the happiness, the education, the highly paid jobs, and be more like me inthe light of Jesus… poor and stupid and spending my life on gay sites doing the lords work.I pray, and Jesus fills me deep inside.I kneel before him, close my eyes, and take him into me.At night, when I am alone, he comes inside me.In the morning, I can feel him penetrating me with his love.Every Sunday at mass, I take his body into me,deep into my body through my mouth and throat.Let jesus enter you. Let him fill you.Fill you inside till you burst with joy.You gays do nothing like this, you’re sick!I’m off to do some more research on my Fisher-Price wind up learning thingie and surf that internet thing with my V-tech laptop, and will be back when I have some more stupid statements to make.Sleep well.Saint hank

  115. I see Robert, you’re now the antichrist. Congratulations. Found those 4 horsemen yet, or are you just going to order them on-line them at rapture’r’us.com Hmmm. We must summon an old priest and a young priest to have you cured of this demonic infestation. The old one, we can get, but the other? Christianity is collapsing, we’ll never find a young priest!Its amazing the bile and medieval nonsense that low life cretin spews when he’s ignored.Oh, but I LOVE the “new” hank parody. Class.

  116. Hank, if you’re trying to explain to us the error of our ways, you’re not doing a very good job are you?All your “Fuck you”‘s are not going to win many converts.As for this little effort, presumably, it’s a wind up with all the double entendres?”I pray, and Jesus fills me deep inside.I kneel before him, close my eyes, and take him into me.At night, when I am alone, he comes inside me.In the morning, I can feel him penetrating me with his love.Every Sunday at mass, I take his body into me,deep into my body through my mouth and throat.Let jesus enter you. Let him fill you.Fill you inside till you burst with joy.”

  117. Hey Luke, Willy:What did you think about my commenton Manuscript evidence for superiorNew Testament reliability and thechart of names and dates?If there were any mistakes, pleaselet me know which ones.It pretty well sums up that Christianwritings are authentic — even moreso than those about Plato, Aristotle,etc. — are you familiar with them? Do you think they’re authenticor false?I’ve much more factual material about Jesus Christ if you care to read it.I’m always happy to enlighten you about things more important than sexual topics and curse words.Sleep well,saint Hank

  118. It is pointless to argue with insane, religious people. It is obvious that religious faith is a mental illness from which Hank of the unfortunate name suffers.

  119. I am very disappointed at how the level of debate here has plunged to that of insults and abuse. It is quite clear to me that this is a tiny minority of people in our society who simply cannot accept and acknowledge that GLBT people have rights and deserve not only to be protected, but also to be treated with civility and respect. As I have said earlier, you cannot argue with an astronaut that the earth is flat, so why even try to educate these people against their will?I think that, in the end, we should simply not engage in debate with these people, on their terms. What I think would be more productive is to assert our right to live as we please, and not to have the values of others forced upon us – and that means being civil.It is sad that looking over the shoulders of the bickerers and squabblers, I see a world where, even today, gay and lesbian people are often in danger, especially in the Middle East, unwanted, unloved, lonely and alienated. Such self-indulgence ignores that fact that there is much work to be done to secure a good future for GLBT people around the world and, maybe, we all should stop living through PCs or laptops, wake up, and discover that much needs to be done.

  120. Robert, ex-pat Brit 3 Dec 2007, 1:16pm

    William, too funny! Yes, Hank has honored me with my new title, very proud of that and I’m having a lot more fun than he could ever imagine!

  121. Robert, ex-pat Brit 3 Dec 2007, 1:20pm

    Luke, it sounds like he’s crying out to get laid by some hot, hunky number. His protestations are classic symptoms of a sexually repressed man, a self-loathing one at that.

  122. Hanknone of what was written in the new testament was contemporaneousit was written to evangelise and is therefore partialthe pauline interpreatation differs significantly from the gospelsthere is no INDEPENDANT documentation, strange considering the highly bureaucratic nature of the roman empire,the Church (at Nicae in about 500CE) pruned and edited the entires to give the orthodox interpretation.The authors you compare it with weren’t trying convert the heathen and maintain the faithful.The subject is too wide to deal with here, and my scholorship in the subject is shaky. I appreciate YOUR take, but you can’t convince with what I consider deliberately and intentionally self-serving writings.

  123. William - Dublin 3 Dec 2007, 5:34pm

    apYrs, just ignore the twit, there’s no pint responding to him. He now calling people in here an “antichrist”… only someone with an imbalanced mind comes out with that kind of archaic crap. The only thing he has proven so far is that he’s a fool. And fools don’t deserve our responses.Ignore the retard, and he might just fuckoff.

  124. Hey Apyrs and David:Thanks for your comments — they’reabout the only ones that have rationalsense to them and I do want pose somelegitimate answers, comments, andquestion to each of you. I know none of us will change ourminds, but I do have some worthwhileinput and would appreciate yours inreturn. These are important aspectsabout homosexuality in our modernsociety and have to be addressed ina civilized manner.The others on this site have never answered my questions thought theywere logical (though from my pointof view) but they are legitimate questions that homosexuals andheterosexuals have to understand, coming from totally different viewpoints.I’ll get back to each of you soon.If you care to comment — fine,it not I’ll be disappointed becauseyou two seem to have control of objective responses. — the otherson this site are totally negative tocarrying on a logical debate.Talk with you soon,Hank

  125. When are the men in white coats coming to remove Hank of the unfortunate name to a lunatic asylum?

  126. Hank, you’re not having much success here. Why not try Evangelical work converting non-Christians? I hear there’s a vacancy going in the Sudan.Don’t forget to pack your teddy bear.Lots of love…

  127. William - Dublin 3 Dec 2007, 6:59pm

    Apyrs and David, just ignore the fool. He’s trying to bate you in so he can start another stupid rant and accuse you of heresy or something.

  128. Hey Neville;What’s with this negress thing.Truth is:I’m albino, 4’10″ 220 lbs.balding, a 2′ beard, missingmy left leg, blind in my righteye, dying from lung cancer and was born in London.I love you too.saint Hank

  129. Hey Luke:Nice to hear from you too.For your info I’m readingOUT OF THE CLOSET AND INTO THE LIGHTby Rev. Jerry Stephenson, ex-SouthernBaptist Minster.In case you’re not familiar with the book, Jerry spent 15 year as a BaptistMinister, teacher, counselor and college professor.He came out of thecloset as a gay man after having beena part of the Ex-gay Movement.Very interesting book — I’m learninga lot about homosexuals as well asabout the social problems involvedin sexuality in general.Regardless of what you might think,I do read opposing viewpoints to myChristian beliefs. I don’t hategays or lesbians, but I don’t agreewith some of your basic tenets becausemany of you propose beliefs that can’tbe substantiated by fact — you takethem on faith, and I’d like todiscuss those things with someonewho feels comfortable and intelligentenough. It doesn’t have to stressreligion — there are other avenuesthat lead to important concerns.How about it — anybody ready for someserious discussion.PLEASE — nobody who wants to curse me — call me an idiot — an incestuous result. PLEASE — youbore me with those idiotic words.Talk to you — anyone soon.saint Hank

  130. William. I have no intention of engaging into a debate with Hank. He clearly wants me to be pulled in to debate with him – on his terms – and I simply won’t do that. In fact, I never engage in these kinds of debate, because they are not debates worth having. I feel sure that most GLBT people have enough self-confidence and self-esteem not to feel it necessary to justify their existence anyway. Here in the UK, we are blessed in being part of a society were all sorts of people rub together pretty well most of the time. Recently, I saw John Barrowman of “Torchwood” fame. He is a gay Scottish-American who recently formed a Civil Partnership with the man he loves here in the UK. He wasn’t able to do that in the USA, despite him being a citizen of both countries. And that makes me feel intensely proud. Proud of who I am, and proud to be British.But elsewhere in this crazy world of ours, I see immense suffering amongst the GLBT communities throughout the world. I think it’s time we woke up, smelt the coffee, and put our efforts and energies into fighting for their rights.David S

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