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Comment: Racism still an issue in the gay community

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  1. Not finding a particular ethnic group attractive is not racist. People are attracted to the type they are attracted to. To call it racist is ridiculous! Political correctness gone completely mad!!

  2. Who an individual person finds attractive and who they choose as their partner does not come with an equal opportunities policy attatched to it. I’m a man who only finds men (and never women) sexually attractive. Does that mean I am being sexist? To my mind, the idea that a white British gay man is racist because he is not attracted to men from ethnic minorities is as ludicrous as the idea that a white British gay man is sexist because he doesn’t find women attractive.

  3. Balaji Ravichandran 8 Mar 2007, 5:15pm

    You miss the point of my article. I don’t object to white men not finding men of other races unattractive at all. What I object to is websites like Gaydar and DatingDirect using it as an important criterion in their search terms and in their profile. I find that offensive. By the way, don’t confuse sexual orientation with sexism. That’s daft!

  4. Balaji Ravichandran 8 Mar 2007, 5:20pm

    Addendum:Racism is not defined by finding someone attractive alone. It’s how one behaves towards another. If you’ve encountered racism, you’d know. (Ever travelled to Japan as a white man?)

  5. People have every right to decide who they have sex with. If I don’t like guys with ginger hair, and I have this in my profile, is this ‘racist’ also? No, it is my personal sexual preference. Deal with it! If people don’t have a sexual preference for Indian guys, that is their right.

  6. “I feel insulted when websites like Gaydar try and construct an identity in my profile, based on my race, and that of my prospective partner. That ethnicity and race is still a column in all profile applications is a cause for concern when it should have no influence in deciding any aspect of people’s personal and professional lives. With the exception of crude racists, I think most people would agree. “I completely disagree with this statement.you are talking about attraction here.Its very very common to find People looking for younger oriental guys, they use the age and the ethnic origin box to “filter”, they Actively seek out this group for the physical attributes they tend to find there.. This is a wildly subjective set of “attributes”, but sometimes, stereotypes are too often right.On the surface, this is just as racist, but does it have anythign to do with racism? I dont think it does.If you had a fixation on blue eyed men, for sex only- not freindship, then Surely this would be a piece of information you would like to use to “filter” the available pool, as it were.Some people dont fancy white guys, for sex only- not freindship,.. They put “BLACK ONLY”, admittedly usualy meaning afro-carribean as opposed to indian-asian, they use the infomation for “filtering”Some people like Thin guys. some like fat.. they use the weight/size box.. to filter for that.. A profile is tryign to tell you somethign about the person, woudl you disagree that Size, height, Hair color are needed?Its all “ism’s”, but when it comes to attraction, its so deep seated and complex you cant just reduce the problem. I understand some of your point, there are racists out there, but i disagree with your assertation, Information is not racist, Interpretation and use is.

  7. I don’t find indians attractive and i would put that on my profile to filter through, as to not waste their time and mine. Has nothing to do with Racism, but rather preference. Why go out (or meet) with someone i don’t find attractive? Ethnic gays can be such prudes sometimes.

  8. There’s nothing racist about people seeking partners within a particular racial group- that’s just personal taste.Studies throughout the world have shown that most people tend to be attracted to people who share similar racial characteristics to themselves, no matter what their skin colour or culture.What is racist though is how some gay men express this when hit on by someone of a race they are not particularly attracted to.Some of us can be very very juvenile when approached by someone we are not attracted to, whether that be because of their race, age, weight, height, hairyness etc.If you’re not attracted to someone thats fine but be polite and dont ridicule them.PS- no body talks about prejudice towards gingertops though many people arent attracted to that.However, what I have found odd is how many asian men who have tried to pick me up have themselves asked “is it because I’m asian” when I’ve said I wasnt interested.Personally I try not to ask people for an itemised list of all the reasons they arent interested in me when they turn em down

  9. I totally agree with your article. so many white gay men are SO racist!Go into gay bar in Soho and you will hardly ever see white men talk to or even acknowledge non-white menAnd if you are ever unfortunate enough to go to Heaven nightclub, and you have a black or brown face, you can forget about getting served !!

  10. I am not understaning why nobody is wanting to bonk me

  11. Gay men unfortunately place a persons “worth” on their physical attributes. Most gay men will not talk to / smile / look at / acknowledge another person unless they provide them with some use. Forget being friends, if you don’t look the part then you might as well be invisible.Who people find attrractive is complex and probably related to early experiences and role models. Given that there is no psoitive representation of asians in televison / adverts / billboards / newspapers / magazines / boys / qx / etc etc etc its not surprising that a lot of gay men are unable to look beyond their own prejudices.Gay men have lost their individuality and freedom of thought. If you dont wear the right shoes, the right clothes, and do the right drugs and the right steroids, or have the right colour boyfriend, then you run the risk of being ridiculed by all the other “sheep” they call friends. Gay men have sadly become a ridiculous and ugly characateur of themselves.

  12. i agree with your article. i find that gay society in the UK generally reflects the larger societal trends. racism is a fact of life in society in the UK and in turn in gay circles. i’ve experienced it and seen it and it dismays me. i travel all over the world and have had the opportunity to observe gays in many parts of the world and find that Northern and Western European rate the worst when it comes to racism

  13. DANIEL STRONG 25 Mar 2007, 8:45am

    I have no problem with people preferring their own color. What I find extremely offensive is the fact that skin color (no matter how attractive one’s physical attributes are) is used to determine desirability. What I find offensive is the fact that someone with White skin (no matter how conventionally ugly or unattractive) can be considered as more deserving of consideration and intrinsically worth more than anyone of color, as well as the extremes Whites go to to make this abundantly clear. Also, any cursory look at most any gay-oriented magazine will reveal that people of color just don’t exist. It’s usually White men that are held up as poster-boys–the epitome of attractiveness– or a no-go. If these aren’t examples of racism, then I don’t know what are.

  14. I’m utterly dismayed by the sheer idiocy expressed in this article. Sexual attraction is not, by definition, a conscious choice – and it’s mind-boggling ridiculous to suggest otherwise..Sadly, this kind of ignorant and naive reasoning plays in to the hands of the real bigots who believe that being gay is simply a ‘lifestyle choice’.Human sexual atraction is, for the most part, based on the phyical characteristics of our potential ‘mate’. This is how we evolved as a species. People are naturally attracted (or unattracted) to a very diverse range of physical characteristics – depending upon the living-breathing people they were exposed to, interacted with and, maybe, eventually longed for, during their formative years. And, whether you choose to accept it or not, with regard to attraction, skin colour is just another physical characteristic – like eye colour, body shape or nose size. Nothing more, nothing less. Lament this, by all means, but don’t falsely accuse people of being racist – unless your intetion is to completely redefine and wholly trivialise the term. In which case, you’re lumping sentiments such as “I don’t fancy guys with big noses” together with “I hate all black/white people!”, when they are so obviously and completely different.We’ve all seen documentary footage of the “No Irish, Dogs or Coloureds” signs that were displayed in boarding house windows 50 years ago. It isn’t even remotely similar to the “No offence, I only fancy white guys” messages on Gaydar profiles. Both are, without doubt, completely honest – but only the former is racist. The latter just politely deters people from wasting their time. Just as “No offence, I only tend to fancy hairy/skinny/thin-lipped/muscley/asian/red-headed/small-dicked/brown-eyed/black/tall/short [delete as appropriate] guys”, helps everyone else from wasting their time too.For example (and I make no apolgy for labouring the point), if I had a big nose, there’s no point me wasting a second of my time trying to persuade someone who admits they don’t get turned on by guys with big noses, that they should sleep with me – just because I fancy them. Instead, I’d be better off focusing only on those guys that tend to fancy guys with big noses, or those for whom nose size is a neutral consideration. If that means my potential ‘pool’ is reduced to 1 in a hundred, then c’est la vie! I’d have to deal with it and move on. I certainly wouldn’t have the bare-faced cheek to moan about it. So, please, grow up, get a grip on your senses.. and stop crying wolf!

  15. what is racist is the casual use of terms like rice queen ding queen etc. queens have been saying shit like that for ever, leave them to it then when the scene is full of people like them they’ll turn on each other. Or maybe they already have with all that barebacking rubbish.to Tom – What is worse than the racist bar staff at heaven is the black folk who continue to patronise the club and the excuse “there’s nowhere else to go” is so weakto DANIEL STRONG if you don’t like the images in gay magazines stop reading them or start your own. no magazine on earth has an obligation to satisfy your needs except your own.Use the gay scene and media for what it is a cesspit where you may find a gem swimming amongst all the shit.And finally Balaji Ravichandran are you so desperate that you cannot walk away from guys who don’t find your skin colour attractive find someone who does and have some self respect don’t go whah whah whah but I want one, pussy

  16. I think media is playing the best role in here.Compare to the past black guy will never be this cool as many singer or rapper.My suggest is all asian or non-white lads should start to success and put they face on every media.So white shouldn’t be this popular.

  17. James Marshall 12 Apr 2008, 1:44pm

    I agree with a comment made here – it is not racist to find a particular ethnic group attractive, that’s down to what a person find aesthetically pleasing – something they have little control over. Racism is completely different. If you want to comment on racism on dating websites perhaps you should search a website called fitlads.net for a few racist phrases. The website owners are totally irresponsible, actually finding it amusing that people use racist language hatred on their site, as demonstrated by one of the two owners comments “Freedom of speech ni**errrrrrrrrs! LOL” (without the censorship). Dismaydar may be awash with picky queens, as may the scene but neither are tantamount to being run by the BNP as with fitlads.net, possibly the most racist gay website on the internet.

  18. Sister Mary Clarence 12 Apr 2008, 4:34pm

    Hit the nail on the head, “that’s down to what a person find aesthetically pleasing”. This of course relies on you knowing what the person looks like and unless to see the person its very difficult to make a judgment on whether they are aesthetically pleasing.What you can do of course is make an assumption of what they will look like based on their ethnic origin, which is called racially stereotyping, and which in turn is a form of racism.Almost all of the comments posted on here seem to work on the assumption that if someone declares their ethnicity then we can immediately identify what physical characteristics the person possess.Could someone clarify exactly where mixed race falls into this? Anyone with a hint of non-Caucasian heritage blood is technically defined as ‘black’. It does not necessarily mean that the person will be dark skinned, have fuzzy hair and a big flat nose. The offending person can look more white that your typical pure bred Caucasian but still technically be termed black, therefore falling foul of the Gaydar user stating a preference for ‘no blacks’.Similarly someone posting the comment ‘Caucasians only’ would no doubt be horrified to find someone from Southern India turning up on their doorsteps with facial features of a Veddoid character and a very noticeable dark skin colour. However this person would very likely be Caucasian.Ethnicity is a very complex issue and to start using it as selection criteria for meeting people, it does of course help if you actually understand what the words you are using mean. Clearly many people on here only have a passing understanding of the subject matter they are debating but that doesn’t seem to put them off putting their oar in.Also, it incenses me every time someone trots out the line about it being no different saying ‘no one with ginger hair’. Ginger hair is a physical characteristic, ethnicity is not. If you can’t tell the difference then you’re an idiot.It has also been stated that gay society reflects wider social trends. If you believe that you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Sexual racism (most often only through ignorance) is not a reflection of the views of society are large, where racism is increasingly seen to be socially unacceptable. The fact that so many people argue that it is not racism at all, but just personal preference, is an indication in itself that they do understand that racism is no longer socially acceptable in British society.

  19. Racism is psychosocially complex, and difficult to experience. No one wants it suggested that the way they treat/value others is immoral or irresponsible, and certainly no one wants to feel chronically maligned due to characteristics over which they have no control. Racism’s complexity lies in part in our inculcation into an evaluative culture which imposes worth based in large part on physical attributes; a given culture will differentiate aesthetically among its various subgroups based on historical circumstances such as the relative power differentials among the subgroups’ antecedents. Moreover, this human tendency, the ethology of social primates and large populational studies appear to divulge, is universal—we are a clannist species who natively arrange ourselves in group hierarchies.

    And yet a claim of exclusivist racism can seem incongruous juxtaposed against the still turbulent evolution of gay rights globally—all the more so in progressive First World nations like England and The States. The great majority of gay men, I’m confident, want to build an inclusive community. This sincere desire for an egalitarian social ethic stands in sharp contrast with what countless non-Caucasian gays experience, though—different treatment based solely on their racial phenotype. This experience transcends the possible justification offered, “I just happen not to like…” This taste-phenomenon is problematic because it manifests across the globe so consistently that it cannot be a random taste driven event. In the absence of a biological inclination towards a certain race-aesthetic, random statistical preferences should exist on a normal distribution, which data do not support—implicating a social etiology underlying tastes. It is this lattermost which I believe gay individuals who levy a claim of racism mean to assert. Yet clearly from other comments here and elsewhere, it isn’t immediately productive to argue that such behavior is racist.

    I do not mean here to lay blame. Nevertheless, I am humbled that after studying race relations in gay communities for over a decade both here in the States and abroad, I find the two perspectives (the rights of individual taste; and the motif of historically entrenched, media propagated, and socially perpetuated group-aesthetic bias) remain equally volatile, equally pervasive, and equally antipodal. However, when a large subset of a community striving for internal cohesion suffers gravely, dismissal of these individuals’ convergent claims and experiences seems deleterious to cohesive progress. In the interest of minimizing harm as a prerequisite to establishing a productive dialog, those who believe they have experienced racism might share their experiences devoid of accusation, while those who tout the inalienable right to their tastes, if they choose to respond, might refrain from offering invective in exchange for others’ frank demonstration of vulnerability. Here’s to a more peaceful and more luminous 21st century.

  20. Some put ‘white only’ in their profile but I am sure they don’t find every one of them attractive. Some even made the effort to narrow it down, ‘no asians, no feminine, no fat, no ugly’. Putting statements like that in their profile only make them appear ignorant and stupid.

    Only finding one’s own race attractive is not racist however putting that statement in the profile will you appear to be one.

    Taking about racism, let’s go back 150 years. Suppose that African Counties had greater economic and military power and Europe were still in a primitive or backward society, the white would have been caught and sold as slaves and seen as inferior by the African. People who have power (economic or political) tend to think that they are the best. The rich used to look down upon the poor regardless of country or race and the poor naturally felt that they were inferior.

    It’s a psychological issue as a result of our human history.

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