If people who are gay want to stay within the church it is a good thing. The church should be encouraging us to be involved, especially as their memebership is falling so much!
These religious bigots should realize that homosexuality is not a choice. Scant biblical references in Leviticus purportedly condemning homosexuality was written in a time when nobody had any knowledge of the origins of sexual orientation. Now that science proves that it is genetic, that we are born this way, its about time the Anglican Church and others become enlightened and stop inciting hatred, intolerance and even promoting violence by their antigay rhetoric in reference to our relationships and legal status. Who are they to judge? There are too many contradictions in the bible. If religious bigots truly believe everything that is in the bible, then they should be condoning the right of husbands to murder their wives for adultery and even their children, its all there for them to read. Divorce is also strictly forbidden but they willingly permit it. Its interesting how they choose to ignore the myriad damning references alluding to heterosexuals. For more information on biblical references, go to http://www.fallwell.com. I recommend that the Anglican hierarchy read it well before they resort to discriminatory attacks on the gay community. Their hypocrisy is breath-taking.Robert, ex-patriate, New York City.
There is no such ceremony as a Gay Wedding, Marriage is an act between male and female as nature intended. Anyone in a pastoral position should resign if they enter into homosexual liasons, by entering such a liason they defile the teachings they are supposed to be encouraging others to follow. The christian church should not allow unnatural acts such as homosexuality to be performed particularly within it’s ranks.
This whole thing can easily be expalined. Homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God. Therefore, to be homosexual is a sin. But it should be noted that God loves the sinner but hates the sin.God loves Gene Robinson, but doesn’t like that he is gay; he is making the situation worse by calling himself a man of God when he clearly doesn’t know God.
In response to biblical reference about homosexuality being out of date and science provening it is genetic. Well, we are all born in sin and are only cleared of wehen we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour; possibly homosexulity is just another form of the sin which is unfortunately innate in us.
In response to sammy, church is not about membership! Jesus died to give us the chance for redemption we need Him it’s not the other way around. And for the record if people were reading their ~Bibles and actually had relationships with God so they actually knew him this ‘debate’ would have finished long before it ever started-in the Word of God. No-one is against gays but don’t attempt to teach what God didn’t teach u. Nowhere in the whole of the Bible will u find God promoting homosexuality.
The New Testament teaches that ‘he without sin cast the first stone’ by this philosophy no-one is in a position to judge but the almighty creator so somethings to ponder.1. God is without sin and he created us yet we are born in sin suggesting there is an outside influence. Sin is not in your blood and Leviticus tells us that homosexuality is a detestable sin so where did it come from?2. Studying the Bible is recommended as opposed to merely reading it. It is the only piece of timeless literature that is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Many of its details are still relevant today. The New testament shows fulfillments of the old law and more importantly readjustments such as turn the other cheek and no longer an eye for an eye. Still, no further mention of homosexuality- maybe no re-adjustments needed to be made?3. If your practical lifestyle is contrary to that which your teaching you undermine the Word of God via your actions. So why should anyone listen- it suggests that you’re unsure of what you’re teaching. If we can’t convince ourselves that the entirety of something that we’re following is true then how to we convince others?
2 Timothy, i believe in chapter 4 vs2, tells us that people will begin to follow their own teachings and will hear what they want to hear. Could this be one of the issues that Jesus was alluding to?
It seems to me the church needs to take a long hard look at them selfs.God made this world for all of us to live together in peace yet the head of some churches dont practise what they preach there to busy placing labels on people.Jesus was put on the cross for a reason he had pain for all of us each and everyone of us.maybe the church needs to stop trying to be the hands of God for form were i am sitting there are the biggest Sinners yet.maybe they should practise what they preach and love in his divine name not matter what there human minds think of others.we all have freedom to choose thats a born given gift from God his self churches should take note of that fact and live and let live.laws are man made only the divine law tells us to love our brothers and sisters it dose not tell us to cast them out because they think they have commited a sin to be open and honest about who and what they are.the churches need to take a leaf out of thier own books and practise what they preach (exceptents).
Here is what Jesus Christ himself has to say ‘ Have you not heard, MALE and FEMALE he created them, Therefore shall a MAN leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his WIFE. It is therefore false to say that homosexuality was unknown at the time of Jesus Christ. If it had been unknwon, it would not even have been mentioned! That was wahy Paul, in taking about various sexual practices, including polygamy and homosexualtiy, said ‘And such were some of you, but you were sanctified…’ Christanity is a free society of choice with rules set out frm the outset, if you cannot abide, do not join, but it seems strange that people want to change the religion to suit their own selves. I have not yet heard it supported that meat eaters become not only members of the Vegan Society, but leaders of it!
The church will except society that has committed crime and done harm to others also offering forgivness. Yet if you are homosexual you are regarded to be the biggest sinner of all time. Most of which homosexuality goes on within the church ESPECIALLY the Catholic church. The difference is I am open about my sexuality (NOT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AS SOME IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH) and only engage in a loving legal relationship with a consenting adult. I must apologise to any offence that I may have caused to anyone but feel strongly about get my point across to these so called devout christians i.e biggots. The church needs to open its eyes and get with the times. With the numbers falling in parishioners and worshippers and the numbers in homosexuality increasing as more of society comes out, at this rate the numbers of worshippers will continue to fall. I will continue from my home, between God and myself and not some judgemental biggot in a robe in the middle.
Gene Robinson may not have to wait as long as he supposes before the Anglican Church embraces gays and lesbians.The respected New Directions journal (published by Forward in Faith)has revealed that over half of the burgeoning number of female priests back the ordination of practising homosexuals but…wait for it..so do an astonishing 74 per cent or laypeople.The tide isn` going to turn..it already is. Millions of us who are committed, born-again Christians are in active church work are Gay. So, everyone,grow up!Guy Fleming, Worthing
guy flemingSorry, but theres bad new from New Orleans. The anglican cult leaders have agreed to restrict ordinaiton of more gay bishops and to exlude gay and lesbians from marriage ceremonies. “By RACHEL ZOLL, Associated Press Religion Writer THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.2 hours, 40 minutes agoNEW ORLEANS – Episcopal leaders, pressured to roll back their support for gays to keep the world Anglican family from crumbling, affirmed Tuesday that they will “exercise restraint” in approving another gay bishop.The bishops also pledged not to approve an official prayer for blessing same-gender couples and insisted a majority of bishops do not allow priests to bless the couples in their parishes.”In keeping with an ancient christian tradition we again find ourselves being sacrificed on the altar of ignorance and superstition.I blame it on Nero, a sesterces pinching scrooge who couldn’t be bothered to buy enough lions and tigers to finish off the christians. Nero, a Caesar and a state god, ought to be able to read this wherever he is. Nero, I hope you’re blushing, you stingy jackass.
Nike It’s also the case that your church teaches that it is the only way to heaven, so effectively you’re saying:”you can’t nbe a member of my church if you’re actively gay.”"You’re going to burn in hell baby”The terms “pernicious”, and “evil” spring to mind. You Xians brainwash generations with your superstitions, then give condemn an entire section of your flock (LGBs), and in addition, by your implicit message of “LGB being sinners” encourage thugs to consider us fair game.
Having read more of the thread: yep the fundies have found us, and will now swamp anything to do with gays and religion with “god loves the sinner hates the sin”, Adam and Eve, not “Adam and Steve”, “we’re all sinners, but if you gays stop having sex you’ll be OK”.These people are our enemy no matter how compassionate or reasonable they sound. Our sexuality is an affront to them and they want us to deny it in order to be “saved”. And they will conintue to badger us, and intrude where they’re not wanted, and whinge when we tell them to STFU
Well, let them have their rant… what are these people? The old, the insecure, the weak minded? Do we care? They’re quoting “scriptures” from a badly written book with countless contradictions and inaccuracies, and not one shred of proof. Insistence of fact without proof is the domain of the foolish and stupid.Guy Flemming is right. Their influence is dying, and their cries for “salvation” are getting more feverish as their voice dwindles. Let them rant, its all these impotent bores can do now days. If there is a god, he certainly doesn’t look favourably on people like this who are a few stones from climbing back into the trees to look for bananas.
IF the “Christians” are so preoccupied by keeping gays out of their little fusty gathering called a “Church” then they should start by no longer making decisions on behalf of people who cannot yet make their own decisions, babies, and baptising them.That way those babies will grow up and be able to make their own decision feely as adults on whether to join the “Church” or not.And we will quickly see whether, in denying themselves the opportunity to indoctrinate, damage and instill people with a sense of guilt for so many things from the outset, whether they have much of a leg to stand on, whether they have anything worth surviving for.
Oh, Lisa, that’s beautifully written. Crude, but beautiful!And disturbingly so close to the truth about these so-called christians…
Message to Pink News host of this website. It looks like we’re being deluged with right wing fundamentalist socalled christian agitators whose sole aim is to break up this website altogether and it looks like they will succeed if you don’t ban them altogether. Freedom of speech is one thing, but the abuse thereof is quite another, clearly what these sick people are doing. If this persists, you’ll end up with no website at all. I come here not expecting to be harrassed, bullied, preached to and have religion shoved down my throat. These are hateful, sick people and its turning me off coming here, fast.
Lisa, you’re so right on the mark. Its what I’ve been saying for a long time. Straights are the cause of the world’s ills. They cause wars, famines, they have a monopoly on crime, the jails are more than 95% filled with them; divorce, rapists, child molesters, wife beaters, philanderers, adulterers, wife swappers, porn mongers both child and adult, prostitution pimps, sex slavery trade from the far east, corporate corruption, torture, relgious bigotry, hypocrisy, perjurors, you name it, they do it with amazing skill and accomplishment. These religious right wing nuts who come here to annoy us would do well to spend their time and energy getting their own house in order first and foremost. Very sick people indeed, mostly all psychopaths.
Spot on Robert… my experience with these “religious faithful” has always been that they tend to follow very base “categories”. Have you ever noticed that? I’m no physiologist, but these tend to be one or most of the following:(a) Full of some self loathing, possibly gay or sexually impotent, and unfounded projected outward attacks on others, like gays, avoids their judgemental gaze being turned on themselves.(b) Limited or diminished intelligence/edcuation. Unable to reason for themselves, so they will accept the leadership of anyone that promises them more than what little they have in life.(c) Are small people who find judging others given them a little taste of the power and superiority that they cannot find, but crave, in their daily lives.(d) Disturbed guilt view of their “own sins”, whether sexual in nature or otherwise, to such a stage they believe forced conversion of others validates their own repentance.(e) Needing to belong: This type joins any “belief” system to ensure they are part of something, regardless of the nature of the views/beliefs. I’ve noticed this kind also tend to be the ones on serial fad diets or and endless stream of self help courses.Am I wrong with these observations? Perhaps one of the religious nuts here can offer a glimmer of insight, but WITHOUT referring to god, the bible, or how everyone but them will burn in hell… just once.(Personally, hell, if it exists looks infinitely more promising given heaven is *supposed* to be full of morons like Hank and his band of fools)
Not bad, Ciaran, not bad at all. I never looked at it that way before, but you make a lot of sense to me. Are you SURE you’re not a physiologist? Of course, there are Christians that don’t fit your list, the ones who genuinely don’t have any hate to others, gay or otherwise, and follow the true teachings of Jesus about loving and respecting each other. But they, unfortunately, don’t have a voice as loud and as feverish as the ones that DO match your list. Nor do they seem to be as bored with life and themselves enough to come in here (a gay site) and rant like they have just lost their marbles!
For me, the “compromise” that has been agreed represents a sell-out. I no longer feel able, even nominally, to be part of the Church of England. It’s National Quaker week this week in the UK : I’ll be taking this opportunity to find out more about the Society of Friends as a place where it may be possible for both spirituality and sexuality to find a home.
The story is being played here with an emphasis on “exercise restraint,” and most definitely not with the implication in your headline of “to stop ordaining.”Perhaps the Episcopalians bought some time?
Ciaran, I concur with your statement. Also, many of the right wing fundamentalists come from an underprivileged socio-economic background or they’ve been abused or damaged in some other way. They are fertile ground for exploitation by the right wing bigots and ex-gay ministries alike. They claim high success rates but they can never produce the figures or back it up with documentation in any of the scientific or medical literature. They’ve never had any controlled studies conducted by an independent, legitimate scientific authority. Many even conduct their socalled research over the phone which is questionable at best. Ex-gay ministries are the biggest cons out there, they extort large sums of money from their victims while assuring them they can be “normal” by praying away the gay and other means of aversion therapy. Most of them who claim conversion, don’t marry and have families as they claim, and those who’ve emerged from it by claiming celibacy are still gay. If I had it in my power, these organisations would be banned. Shills like Hank et al are products of these ministries, its a last desperate attempt to agitate because they know they’re losing the cultural war and they’re seeing LGBT people winning more equality all across the globe on a daily basis. The tide has turned in our favour, not theirs, hence their desperation to rant here. They’re a dying breed.
Nick, the compromise definitely is a sell-out, but its not going to be permanent. The Episcopal church will eventually break away from the Anglican community, as it should. The majority of American episcopalians are fairly liberal and not against ordaining gay clergy so its inevitable, a split will come. I welcome it because it will also diminish the C of E’s reliance on American wealth that funds its backward, regressive branch in the third world. This is what its all about, money and power. If gay Anglican clergy had any sense, they’d leave the church and go join the United Church of Christ.
As I have struggled to find a way of expressing my spirituality and faith, and having tried many ways of so doing, I have come to one simple conclusion: that a majority of organised religion is not about spirituality; or faith; or exploring humanity and the depths of human experience.In essence, it is about one thing – power. It is obsessed with power, particularly over the control of women. A few months ago, the scientist and author, Richard Dawkins, presented a television series about religion and its conflicts with scientific enquiry. One of the interviews that had been recorded was between Dawkins and an Israeli Jew who had converted to Islam and who had adopted a particularly fundamentalist attitude to his new faith. When questioned about the liberal nature of British society, he spoke in insulting terms about British women asking (and I paraphrase a little here, since I am recalling from memory):”what is it with your women, showing their bodies and sleeping around like whores?”. He then asked:”what is wrong with them and your society?”Well, I have a simple answer. Those “whores”, as he describes them have simply taken ownership of their own bodies and their own sexuality, in the same way that gay men and women have already done.This has nothing to do with morality, the fight between good and evil, right or wrong. It is about power. And until we can face these bigots down on this basis, they will continue to hound us and restrict our civil and human rights.
For Ciaran and others who are interested, I’ve posted a link from the U.S. regarding the ex-gay ministries and what they are doing. It will give you a better idea just how sinister they are and how much damage they are doing. Link is below.
Hi Nick – like you I have given up the C of E. I have joined the local Buddhists and advance my spirituality by meditating with them. This does not mean that I have stopped believing in Christianity – I am completely orthodox in the real theological issues – it is just that I cannot believe that the God whom I know and love does not also love me and continues to bless me through my friends and partners.I feel deeply distrustful of church-going christians; it seems to me that they try to present themselves as caring and responsible people, yet passively accept the homophobic principles of their leaders. Here in the UK homophobia has receded since the thatcherite years, and secular society seems to be moving in the direction of greater acceptance, equality and justice. Even the neo-fascists seem to be decaying; only the churches remain as proponents of homophobia.